d1gp legal roll cage

[zaquanh]

do you guys know know of a company that makes either bolt in or weld in cages that are in spec

[karl wasabi]

Are you planning on going to a D1 qualifier? If so, a Cusco will work because the Japanese are awesome and don't care about bends in the cage.

If you want a Formula D or SCCA cage, I think KW cages are the legal thickness and amount of bends. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[!Zar!]

If you have to ask...

[chris300zr]

cusco and safety21 i believe.



you dont need a cage for the qualifier at MW, but you will need one for the series. GL

[K_style]

For all D1 Grand Prix USA - Points Round and Exhibition Match Events
The following additional requirements must be met.

1. Each car must be equipped with a six-point or better roll cage. Full front A pillar beams are required as well as door impact protection beams.

2. Functional tow hooks must be installed on both front and rear of vehicle

3. Roll cage must be welded or securely bolted and anchored. If roll cage is bolted then its must be securely reinforced with an anchor plate and backing plate sandwich on each side of the floor pan.

4. Roll cage may be placed in front or through the dashboard.

5. Roll cage tubing must be at a minimum of 1.5 inches OD tubing and no thinner than 0.098 wall mild steel or 1 .25x .083 Chromoly tubing.

[K_style]

MyNismo.com - CUSCO D1 Roll Cage (http://www.mynismo.com/products/?id=5417)

this cusco roll cage is called D1 ROLL CAGE...

[K_style]

OK THIS IS OFFICIAL FROM D1

http://www.d1gp.com/v2/docs/2009_D1USA_Rulebook.pdf

Safety Cage Purpose
The purpose of the safety cage is to protect the occupants in case of a rollover or a collision. It
must be able to withstand the weight of the car landing on the roof. A cage with six mounting
points or more is required
Intent
Chassis stiffening is a side benefit of a good safety cage system, but it is not the intent of these
rules. The removal or redesign of the cage, whole or in part, to comply with these rules, does
not imply that penalties will not be issued for violating the intent of these rules
Installation
The cage may be removable or may be permanently welded, or any combination thereof,
providing that all aspects of the cage meet these rules.
Padding
All roll cage surfaces that may come in contact with the driver shall be padded with high-density
padding.
Bends
None of the tubing may show any signs of crimping or wall failure. All bends must be Mandrel
type. The center radius of the bends may not be less than three (3) times the outside diameter
of the roll cage tubing.
Main Hoop
The main roll cage hoop shall be as wide as the full width of the interior and must be as close to
the roof as possible. One continuous length of roll bar tubing shall be used as the main hoop.
The main hoop must consist of not more than four (4) bends maximum, totaling one hundred
eighty (180) degrees +/- ten (10) degrees.
Diagonal Brace
At least one (1) diagonal brace shall be used in the same plane as the main hoop. One end of
the diagonal brace shall attach to the corner, or horizontal part, of the main hoop above the
driver’s head, within twelve (12) inches of the driver’s-side corner. The other end of the diagonal
brace shall attach to the mounting plate (or to the main hoop as close to the mounting plate as
practically possible) diagonally opposed to the driver’s head (passenger floor).
Forward Hoops - Option 1
The forward hoops shall extend from the main hoop (in a forward direction) to the floor by
following the roof and the “A” pillar of the car. There shall be a bar connecting the two (2)
forward hoops at the top of the windshield mounted as close to the roof as possible. The
forward hoops shall incorporate no more than four bends each. Optionally a Halo Hoop (Option
2)” or Front Hoop (Option 3)” construction may also be acceptable.
Halo Hoop (Option 2)
A “halo bar” extends from the main hoop (in a forward direction) following the roof line to the
windshield then following along the top of the windshield, then following the roof line back to the
main hoop, thus creating a “halo” over the driver’s head. A “halo” bar shall be constructed of one
continuous piece of tubing. One (1) down tube following the “A” pillar must support the “halo” on
each side of the car. The down tubes shall incorporate no more than two (2) bends each.
Front Hoop (Option 3)
\A “front hoop” is a bar that extends up from the floor, then follows the “A” pillar up to the roof,
then follows the roof line across the top of the windshield, then back down the other “A” pillar,
and then terminates on the floor. There must be one (1) horizontal bar (following the roof line)
connecting the main hoop and the forward hoop on each side of the car. The front hoop shall
incorporate no more than four (4) bends.
Rear Brace
The main hoop must have two (2) brace extending to the rear. The brace shall be attached as
near as possible to the top of the main hoop, and no more than six (6) inches below the top.
Rear brace must not contain any bends
The main hoop brace may be mounted at the rear shock mounts or suspension pickup points.
They may go through any rear bulkheads provided the bulkhead is sealed around the cage
brace.
Door Bars / Side Impact Protection
Door bars on both driver and passenger side must be used. The driver’s door window glass,
window operating mechanism, armrest, map pockets, door panel, and inside door latch may be
removed. *This gutting of the door is only permitted if the roll cage incorporates at least two (2)
NASCAR style door bars that extend into the door or an X brace.
Mounting Points
The roll cage shall be mounted to the floor of the car in a minimum of six points. The cage shall
not go through the firewall. The seventh and eighth points must attach to the firewall or front
fender wells. All cage attachment points must be mounted to plates.
Mounting Plates
Each mounting plate shall be no greater than 100 square inches and no greater than 12 inches
or less than 2 inches on a side. Welded mounting plates shall be at least 0.080 inch thick.
Plates may extend onto vertical sections of the structure. Any mounting plate may be multiangled,
but shall not exceed 100 square inches total including vertical sections.
Mounting Plates – Bolt-In Cage
The attaching points of a bolt-in cage to the body must use reinforcing plates to sandwich the
body. At least three (3) bolts are required for each bolt-in plate and the plate must be at least
3/16 inch thick. All hardware must be SAE Grade 5 or better with 5/16” diameter minimum.
Tube / Mounting Plate Specifications
Any number of tubes may attach to a plate so long as they are touching each other at the plate.
There may be a small gap between tubes to allow welding 360 degrees around each tube.
Welds
All welding must be of the highest quality with full penetration and Arc welding should be used
whenever possible. The welder, using magnaflux, should inspect all welds for quality. All
attachment points must be welded 360 degrees around the tube.


http://www.d1gp.com/v2/docs/2009_D1USA_Rulebook.pdf
LOOK UP PAGE 22 ~ 24


i mean dude... do some research...

i found all these in less than 5 min...

GOOGLE IT or YAHOO IT or whatever...

[zaquanh]

OK THIS IS OFFICIAL FROM D1

http://www.d1gp.com/v2/docs/2009_D1USA_Rulebook.pdf

Safety Cage Purpose
The purpose of the safety cage is to protect the occupants in case of a rollover or a collision. It
must be able to withstand the weight of the car landing on the roof. A cage with six mounting
points or more is required
Intent
Chassis stiffening is a side benefit of a good safety cage system, but it is not the intent of these
rules. The removal or redesign of the cage, whole or in part, to comply with these rules, does
not imply that penalties will not be issued for violating the intent of these rules
Installation
The cage may be removable or may be permanently welded, or any combination thereof,
providing that all aspects of the cage meet these rules.
Padding
All roll cage surfaces that may come in contact with the driver shall be padded with high-density
padding.
Bends
None of the tubing may show any signs of crimping or wall failure. All bends must be Mandrel
type. The center radius of the bends may not be less than three (3) times the outside diameter
of the roll cage tubing.
Main Hoop
The main roll cage hoop shall be as wide as the full width of the interior and must be as close to
the roof as possible. One continuous length of roll bar tubing shall be used as the main hoop.
The main hoop must consist of not more than four (4) bends maximum, totaling one hundred
eighty (180) degrees +/- ten (10) degrees.
Diagonal Brace
At least one (1) diagonal brace shall be used in the same plane as the main hoop. One end of
the diagonal brace shall attach to the corner, or horizontal part, of the main hoop above the
driver’s head, within twelve (12) inches of the driver’s-side corner. The other end of the diagonal
brace shall attach to the mounting plate (or to the main hoop as close to the mounting plate as
practically possible) diagonally opposed to the driver’s head (passenger floor).
Forward Hoops - Option 1
The forward hoops shall extend from the main hoop (in a forward direction) to the floor by
following the roof and the “A” pillar of the car. There shall be a bar connecting the two (2)
forward hoops at the top of the windshield mounted as close to the roof as possible. The
forward hoops shall incorporate no more than four bends each. Optionally a Halo Hoop (Option
2)” or Front Hoop (Option 3)” construction may also be acceptable.
Halo Hoop (Option 2)
A “halo bar” extends from the main hoop (in a forward direction) following the roof line to the
windshield then following along the top of the windshield, then following the roof line back to the
main hoop, thus creating a “halo” over the driver’s head. A “halo” bar shall be constructed of one
continuous piece of tubing. One (1) down tube following the “A” pillar must support the “halo” on
each side of the car. The down tubes shall incorporate no more than two (2) bends each.
Front Hoop (Option 3)
\A “front hoop” is a bar that extends up from the floor, then follows the “A” pillar up to the roof,
then follows the roof line across the top of the windshield, then back down the other “A” pillar,
and then terminates on the floor. There must be one (1) horizontal bar (following the roof line)
connecting the main hoop and the forward hoop on each side of the car. The front hoop shall
incorporate no more than four (4) bends.
Rear Brace
The main hoop must have two (2) brace extending to the rear. The brace shall be attached as
near as possible to the top of the main hoop, and no more than six (6) inches below the top.
Rear brace must not contain any bends
The main hoop brace may be mounted at the rear shock mounts or suspension pickup points.
They may go through any rear bulkheads provided the bulkhead is sealed around the cage
brace.
Door Bars / Side Impact Protection
Door bars on both driver and passenger side must be used. The driver’s door window glass,
window operating mechanism, armrest, map pockets, door panel, and inside door latch may be
removed. *This gutting of the door is only permitted if the roll cage incorporates at least two (2)
NASCAR style door bars that extend into the door or an X brace.
Mounting Points
The roll cage shall be mounted to the floor of the car in a minimum of six points. The cage shall
not go through the firewall. The seventh and eighth points must attach to the firewall or front
fender wells. All cage attachment points must be mounted to plates.
Mounting Plates
Each mounting plate shall be no greater than 100 square inches and no greater than 12 inches
or less than 2 inches on a side. Welded mounting plates shall be at least 0.080 inch thick.
Plates may extend onto vertical sections of the structure. Any mounting plate may be multiangled,
but shall not exceed 100 square inches total including vertical sections.
Mounting Plates – Bolt-In Cage
The attaching points of a bolt-in cage to the body must use reinforcing plates to sandwich the
body. At least three (3) bolts are required for each bolt-in plate and the plate must be at least
3/16 inch thick. All hardware must be SAE Grade 5 or better with 5/16” diameter minimum.
Tube / Mounting Plate Specifications
Any number of tubes may attach to a plate so long as they are touching each other at the plate.
There may be a small gap between tubes to allow welding 360 degrees around each tube.
Welds
All welding must be of the highest quality with full penetration and Arc welding should be used
whenever possible. The welder, using magnaflux, should inspect all welds for quality. All
attachment points must be welded 360 degrees around the tube.

http://www.d1gp.com/v2/docs/2009_D1USA_Rulebook.pdf
LOOK UP PAGE 22 ~ 24


i mean dude... do some research...

i found all these in less than 5 min...

GOOGLE IT or YAHOO IT or whatever...


lmao FAIL FOR U , um i already have all that i didnt ask what the rules are i asked are there any cages already made , so you need to learn to read


cusco and safety21 i believe.

you dont need a cage for the qualifier at MW, but you will need one for the series. GL

yea i know i dont need a cage but if im going forward with this i want to be ready



and on the cusco cage , theres no info on it passing d1gp tech , so far i see its just called d1 cage

[Baxter]

[quote=karl wasabi;2616415]a Cusco will work because the Japanese are awesome and don't care about bends in the cage.quote]
Save your money and avoid cusco. Their cages are a joke. The huge S-bends in the a-pillar bars completely neagate the point of even having a-pillar bars, and their clevis style bolt thrus for tube attachments are questionable at best. Not to mention they have ZERO triangulation, and no harness bar. Basically they're a piece of collapsible scaffolding that you can crush you skull on seconds before it impales you.

[karl wasabi]

a Cusco will work because the Japanese are awesome and don't care about bends in the cage.

Save your money and avoid cusco. Their cages are a joke. The huge S-bends in the a-pillar bars completely neagate the point of even having a-pillar bars, and their clevis style bolt thrus for tube attachments are questionable at best. Not to mention they have ZERO triangulation, and no harness bar. Basically they're a piece of collapsible scaffolding that you can crush you skull on seconds before it impales you.

First post and already talking like you know your shit.

A cusco cage WILL hold up in a rollover...

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/zasb2/Untitled-224.jpg

[Baxter]

regardless of the fact that it held up in that specific incident, you can't refute that their "cages" are a horrible design. It's not approved to be used by any sanctioned road racing body.

[kalypso123]

^ well then...

where do i sign :)

[ZenkiCam]

SWracecars.com


enjuku is doing a group buy on them right now, pm them.

[Teddy]

Isn't Autopower SCCA approved?

[Flipzide]

+1 for Karl. this shit has been talked about over and over again. bolt in cages are fine.

[K_style]

lmao FAIL FOR U , um i already have all that i didnt ask what the rules are i asked are there any cages already made , so you need to learn to read
yea i know i dont need a cage but if im going forward with this i want to be ready
and on the cusco cage , theres no info on it passing d1gp tech , so far i see its just called d1 cage


MyNismo.com - CUSCO D1 Roll Cage (http://www.mynismo.com/products/?id=5417)

this cusco roll cage is called D1 ROLL CAGE..

[!Zar!]

regardless of the fact that it held up in that specific incident, you can't refute that their "cages" are a horrible design. It's not approved to be used by any sanctioned road racing body.

Honestly, it costs the companies a lot more money to have such-and-such cage legalized.

Then the cage would cost more money.


Just make a cage. It isn't that expensive.

And don't ask for help then get angry at the people who post up help for you.

[shinhed]

http://zilvia.net/f/group-buys/238456-s-w-racing-weld-roll-cages-great-price.html

[ZenkiCam]

thanks. also if your from GA, i have a 10pt SW "Drift Car Cage" for 500 bucks picked up, brand new.

[shinhed]

Anyone have S&W installed pics?

[lflkajfj12123]

regardless of the fact that it held up in that specific incident, you can't refute that their "cages" are a horrible design. It's not approved to be used by any sanctioned road racing body.

those damn good for nothing cusco cages!!!!! argghhh

http://noriyaro.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/bihoku_180sx_flip_crash_009.jpg

http://noriyaro.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/bihoku_180sx_flip_crash_014.jpg

[Dousan_PG]

regardless of the fact that it held up in that specific incident, you can't refute that their "cages" are a horrible design. It's not approved to be used by any sanctioned road racing body.

in america.
yes.

[ZenkiCam]

you know the germans make good products.

[420sx]

eastern europe make good whores. always see them in porn

[holybushoffire]

you know the germans make good products.

Fuck Vince :fawkd::fawkd:

[Baxter]

Honestly, it costs the companies a lot more money to have such-and-such cage legalized.

Then the cage would cost more money.


Just make a cage. It isn't that expensive.

And don't ask for help then get angry at the people who post up help for you.
Approval is free. All you have to do is build a cage according to the rule set, such as SCCA's GCR.

[10-66kruk]

personally i would say have a custom cage built. Yes they are more expensive but everycar is different and normally bolt in cages have lots of leiway. Custom cage will get you that baller "a game" fitment. It will also be built to your requirements and tolerances. I wouldnt have chimed in but work at a roll cage metal fab shop. Seeing how it is done and how well fitting a good cage is blows a bolt in out of the water.
Unique Fabrication (http://www.uniquefabrication.com/)
Yeah custom shit is more but with something like a cage you can't really put a price on safety.

[240trainee]

Yea, Cusco cages have proven to withstand rollovers.

However, by looking at it from an engineering standpoint, they leave a lot to be desired in a cage in terms of design and build.

Just decide what you want out of the shit, and go from there. Honestly, even though I have the facility and capability to build my own cage, if I could run Safety21 and Tandem, I would. But, for my plans for my car, they require a NASA approved cage.

and to echo what was said before, if you have to ask on a public forum........

[zaquanh]

SWracecars.com


enjuku is doing a group buy on them right now, pm them.


there not saying if there d1 legal , so far only FD legal and you still need a X door bar


cusco and safety 21 cages are fine , and work well , theres many threads on here about them , i just dont think there d1 legal

MyNismo.com - CUSCO D1 Roll Cage (http://www.mynismo.com/products/?id=5417)

this cusco roll cage is called D1 ROLL CAGE..


lol ugh show me proof to where this cage will pass D1 tech


ill prolly just have a custom done cage there like 700 or so here , so yea

[Brian]

I should just scan up my cusco catalog that shows ALL the cages they make.

They have FIA cages, just so you know.



Cages SHOULD be mostly for looks anyways.

[gotta240]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/zasb2/Untitled-224.jpg

Holy FUCK i'm sick of seeing this picture and hearing the "Its good enough" bullshit arguement with the cusco cage. Is it better than nothing? Probably. Will it save a MILD MILD MINOR SMALL rollover? Probably.

Is it a good design? NO. Would a REAL cage builder be lauged at if he made the exact same cage but no one knew it was "CUSCO"? YES. Will it survive a MAJOR rollover? Who knows. Why risk it?

[Brian]

and the rest of us are tired of hearing these pussy ass bitches whine and whine that a cusco cage is going to collape and kill you after the A pillar bars break and impale you.



Wahhh wahh wahhh

make sure to wear a helmet when you walk around everyday. A huge chunk of space station may fall and hit your head and kill you.


Most of the people on zilvia who will get a rollcage do it for drifting.
Drifting isn't dangerous OR a type of racing.


If you're going to build a 240 for NASCAR or some kind of high speed / high risk race, please put a nice custom cage. You might need it.


Drifters don't need that bullshit.

[Brian]

What kind of major roll over crash are you "cusco haters" expecting to happen?
Some kind of WRC mountain stage crash with the car falling 500ft down a mountain?

[ZenkiCam]

and the rest of us are tired of hearing these pussy ass bitches whine and whine that a cusco cage is going to collape and kill you after the A pillar bars break and impale you.



Wahhh wahh wahhh

make sure to wear a helmet when you walk around everyday. A huge chunk of space station may fall and hit your head and kill you.


Most of the people on zilvia who will get a rollcage do it for drifting.
Drifting isn't dangerous OR a type of racing.


If you're going to build a 240 for NASCAR or some kind of high speed / high risk race, please put a nice custom cage. You might need it.


Drifters don't need that bullshit.

i lold all over my self reading this post. hahahha

[Brian]

yeah I LOL too, but I also can't stand it.


You have these people who freak out becuase there old girlfriend's sister's boyfriend had an Integra and he heard from his teammates that some guy out of town crashed his civic with cusco cage and it killed him.

That's how these stupid arguments get started.

It's just stupid.



So, then, we start getting actual photos and stories from people WITH the Cusco/safety21 cages that crashed and NOTHING happened.
Ok great. This will shut up the whiny baby club right?

Nope.


Now they are "tired" of seeing the same picture.




Ok wonderful.

go find me a photo of a 240 with a cusco cage that resulted in the driver's death.





Yeah, that's right


you WONT FIND ONE.














jesus christ.













They are going to be the parents that don't let their kid do anything.


"dad can I go play on the swings?"

"oh Brad my boy, I don't know. Let me go to the city and get the schematics and find out exactly what grade bolts were used to attach those chains to that swingset cage.
Oh shoot son, let me get my micrometer so I can measure the wall thickness too."


"Sorry son, I'm a big pussy."

[Def]

First post and already talking like you know your shit.

A cusco cage WILL hold up in a rollover...

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/zasb2/Untitled-224.jpg

How is letting the back corner of the roof completely collapse when hit there "holding up?" Looks like they were lucky that roll didn't keep going and hit further up on the roof.

[Brian]

Because that isn't where the cage is.

Custom cages aren't going to be up there either.

[Def]

Because that isn't where the cage is.

Custom cages aren't going to be up there either.

My roll bar has down tubes that would be well in the way of that "crunch."

[Brian]

Pictures please.

I can't imagine somebody making a cage that follows the C pillar. That's going to be a few bends for sure.

[Brian]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w159/BrianHarte/cage04.jpg

Is yours totally different than this kind of down bar?

[Def]

Pictures please.

I can't imagine somebody making a cage that follows the C pillar. That's going to be a few bends for sure.

Haven't painted the interior yet, so no good pics.

I have a hatch, so maybe that's the difference, but the down tubes go from the main hoop down to a bar running between the two strut towers. The main hoop fits the head liner within 1/2" all around, but I understand you can't get that with an off the shelf cage.

[lflkajfj12123]

ELQGA3KMdt0

oh look at that bolt in dash escape cages

[Brian]

Well, I figured you couldn't provide any photos.

Just more jibber jabber B.S. talk with nothing to back it up.


EDIT: A s14 and a S13 hatchback are two TOTALLY different body shapes anyways.


Did you bother to look at the picture I posted? You're right, my "off the shelf" cage main hoop is SOOOO far away from the headliner.
.....stupidity.


Last time I checked, the cage was supposed to protect the driver. I don't know about your seating position, but I sit in the front seat, in front of the main hoop, so I don't understand why you are all bummed out on the rear corner of that s14 getting crushed.

[Brian]

here is a hatchback (like yours) but it has an "off the shelf" cage.
http://noriyaro.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/bihoku_180sx_flip_crash_014.jpg

I don't know what you see, but I see a cabin that is pretty damn intact and NOT crushed in.

I'm looking for blood and limbs in the crushed destruction. I don't see any blue bars sheared off, sticking through torsos and out the window.

[Def]

Well, I figured you couldn't provide any photos.

Just more jibber jabber B.S. talk with nothing to back it up.


EDIT: A s14 and a S13 hatchback are two TOTALLY different body shapes anyways.


Did you bother to look at the picture I posted? You're right, my "off the shelf" cage main hoop is SOOOO far away from the headliner.
.....stupidity.

Just because I don't constantly take pics of my car doesn't mean it's not better than that bolt together POS you've got if you want to get down to it. :rolleyes:

The body shapes aren't that different, you might need to cut some metal to do it right vs. going down to the wheel wells on the S14, but things are in the same relative location for the most part. But doing it the right way would also mean you need to ditch the redundant interior and homo backseat air fresheners, so I can see why you wouldn't want that. :hug:


BTW - love how the load path from your down tube is going at an angle into that clevis. Loading the tube in shear, torsion and tension is TOTALLY the best way to design a cage. :cj:


Don't talk to me about stupid when you post up a pic of a car with a cage and a reclining Bride seat in it, as you just defined it.

[Def]

here is a hatchback (like yours) but it has an "off the shelf" cage.
http://noriyaro.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/bihoku_180sx_flip_crash_014.jpg

I don't know what you see, but I see a cabin that is pretty damn intact and NOT crushed in.

I'm looking for blood and limbs in the crushed destruction. I don't see any blue bars sheared off, sticking through torsos and out the window.

Right, because I totally said that.


Why don't you go try to talk structural engineering to someone who doesn't:

A number 1 - Know far more than you about the subject

B number 2 - Think you're bitching like a little girl over me saying a car was lucky the roll over didn't hit harder over the occupants. I never talked shit about your little 0.065" wall cage, so just calm down.

[!Zar!]

That car doesn't have a bumper support.

Oh noez.

[irax]

ZOMG i think the most important thing everyone forgot to mention


A CAGE IS NOT THERE TO SAVE THE CAR! The cage is there for the sole purpose of increasing the survivability in crashing or roll overs. If the cage was meant to save the car it would be bolted on the OUT SIDE of the car. If your going to talk trash about a cage manufacture please show pictures of how it failed and caused a fatality while drifting on a track or event. Even then be sure to give very specific details like; racing experience, drifting experience, track conditions, speed, vehicle setup, tires, and what initiated the accident.

lol cusco cages not holding up! EL OHHHH EL


you know that video of the white evo racing on a track that ended up rolling over multiple times, that guy didn't have a cages and he died. dare i say it... but even if he had a MEGAN cage it would of greatly increased the chances of his survival. in a case like that it did it's fucking job.

[karl wasabi]

Just because I don't constantly take pics of my car doesn't mean it's not better than that bolt together POS you've got if you want to get down to it. :rolleyes:

The body shapes aren't that different, you might need to cut some metal to do it right vs. going down to the wheel wells on the S14, but things are in the same relative location for the most part. But doing it the right way would also mean you need to ditch the redundant interior and homo backseat air fresheners, so I can see why you wouldn't want that. :hug:


BTW - love how the load path from your down tube is going at an angle into that clevis. Loading the tube in shear, torsion and tension is TOTALLY the best way to design a cage. :cj:


Don't talk to me about stupid when you post up a pic of a car with a cage and a reclining Bride seat in it, as you just defined it.

Right, because I totally said that.


Why don't you go try to talk structural engineering to someone who doesn't:

A number 1 - Know far more than you about the subject

B number 2 - Think you're bitching like a little girl over me saying a car was lucky the roll over didn't hit harder over the occupants. I never talked shit about your little 0.065" wall cage, so just calm down.

Internet is serious business.

I see that you are some kind of cage god. "look at me, I'm a structural engineer. I know my shit! I build roll cages for NASCAR and I have a 21 point jungle gym in my POS 240 that I dream of driving around an oval at 300 mph. Texas, fuck yeah!"

I LOVE how every single cage thread on this forum turns into some kind of argument about cage designs and cage structure and this and that. We have just stated that we are tired of hearing all this BS.

Besides, I think you are bluffing about your cage. Now you're going to make one to prove us wrong...

[irax]

How is letting the back corner of the roof completely collapse when hit there "holding up?" Looks like they were lucky that roll didn't keep going and hit further up on the roof.

when does the fucking driver sit in rear passenger seat??? EVER??

[kafanylovesme]

To the OP:

User "213421273831231" gave you D1GP's rules and cage requirements. Why not do your own research and find out what will/will not work instead of asking to be fed the answer. Pretty simple if you ask me...

[articdragon192]

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k22/philipser1/VP2_2205.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k22/philipser1/VP2_2204.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k22/philipser1/VP2_2188.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k22/philipser1/VP2_2200.jpg

Cusco cage. This was at Buttonwillow.
Flipped at least 3 times. Driver and passenger came out ok.
Looks like the cage did it's job.
Link:
So Long SCIC! - NASIOC (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1663286)

[irax]

i would of lol'd my pants off if there were rota's on that evo wait?? was that a subi? holy shit it looks like an evo now!

[AznDrftr.]

^damn i thought it was a evo lol haah.

But yea it seems like it did its job.

[SR2Zero]

Cusco cage. This was at Buttonwillow.
Flipped at least 3 times. Driver and passenger came out ok.
Looks like the cage did it's job.
Link:
So Long SCIC! - NASIOC (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1663286)

Dude, that's a little baby ass crash. He's lucky he didn't flip harder... then that POS bolt in cage would have collapsed and shattered into a million pieces. :rolleyes:

Right Def?


We all need insane cages, for the crashes that nearly everyone on the forum will never see in their lives.

[240trainee]

God, this shit is so stupid.

If you like Safety21 and you can do what you want with your car, do it.

The JustDrift guys can. Sweet. Awesome.

If you need a custom cage, do it.

Most of you are stunting on the street, where you really shouldn't have a cage period.

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brian]

Def - Pull your head out of your high and mighty asshole. It's starting to really stink around here.

Quite simply, like I said, you try to throw out bullshit talk, but you have nothing to back it up except fancy jargon.

Your clevis can suck my bolt together dick. SO can your torsion, tension, and load path.

Want me to send you a helmet free of charge? The sky is falling. Well, it COULD fall one day. Let me go talk to some gravitational engineers.

[BillWatcher]

:drama:









:hitit:

[Edgar]

:ddog::cj::ghey::bowrofl::doh::bite::tardrim:

[jdm_s13driftking]

if ur really looking for a shop that makes some of the best cages in the west coast, look up amerikajin custom fabrications they build roll cages for both the pink kazz corolla, the gold kaaz corolla and currently working on another car for kaaz check this page out and give them a call if u need some work done MySpace.com - amerikajin - 30 - Male - RUBIDOUX, CALIFORNIA - www.myspace.com/wsriva (http://www.myspace.com/wsriva) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!:Ownedd:

[Def]

Internet is serious business.

I see that you are some kind of cage god. "look at me, I'm a structural engineer. I know my shit! I build roll cages for NASCAR and I have a 21 point jungle gym in my POS 240 that I dream of driving around an oval at 300 mph. Texas, fuck yeah!"

I LOVE how every single cage thread on this forum turns into some kind of argument about cage designs and cage structure and this and that. We have just stated that we are tired of hearing all this BS.

Besides, I think you are bluffing about your cage. Now you're going to make one to prove us wrong...

I'm not talking about cage structure or design except when Brian asked me about a "cage" that follows the C-pillar. I never said mine does, but I mentioned my rollbar has down tubes that go back to the rear strut tower area.

There is way too much to critique on the Cusco cages because they look like they were designed to keep the interior and have to fight around that for space. But like was said, they're probably better than nothing in a crash.

[Def]

when does the fucking driver sit in rear passenger seat??? EVER??

The more you can keep the structure of the car from folding in, the more strength it provides in the event of a roll over. This is as basic a statement as the sky is blue...

[RaceBred 17]

Getting a cage from amerikajin in a week.

[zaquanh]

To the OP:

User "213421273831231" gave you D1GP's rules and cage requirements. Why not do your own research and find out what will/will not work instead of asking to be fed the answer. Pretty simple if you ask me...

for one i already have the rules but i wanted to see like i said in the first post , if liek cusco and safety 21 and s&w that cater to other types of events if any of them will pass d1 tech because i dont see one

but everyone is stuck on hating on cusco , and yet all those that hated on cusco have ben proved wrong not only in my thread but in the thread actually about them

[Def]

Def - Pull your head out of your high and mighty asshole. It's starting to really stink around here.

Quite simply, like I said, you try to throw out bullshit talk, but you have nothing to back it up except fancy jargon.

Your clevis can suck my bolt together dick. SO can your torsion, tension, and load path.

Want me to send you a helmet free of charge? The sky is falling. Well, it COULD fall one day. Let me go talk to some gravitational engineers.

You misunderstand why I posted in here in the first place. Just an observation that the roll over on the S14 was lucky that it didn't keep going over due to the material deformation. That's not a critique on the cage or anything else.

I do not come into every thread to educate people on here that have the engineering background of a high school drop out. I'd rather spend time hitting my head with a hammer, as it's probably less painful in the long run. I'm not trying to school anybody, so don't expect a lesson.

You just got pissy and started attacking me demanding pictures as "proof" of the "attack" you mistakenly think I'm making on Cusco-type cages. There is no attack, I couldn't really care less.

Are they the best cages in the world, no, definitely not. Are they better than nothing? Yes.



Just to show you how far off you really are, the bigger issue in my mind is that a wreck on the street has the strong possibility of having your head have a meeting with the top of the cage. Hence why I have a roll bar, as my car is occasionally driven on the street without a helmet.

[Brian]

Oh, so the issue at hand is street driven cars with cages?

No matter what cage you have, you might just smash your head on it.

How did that become the issue?


Who is flipping 14s on the street?
Who is flipping them with a custom cage, cusco, cage, roll bar, jungle gym?

[Def]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/zasb2/Untitled-224.jpg

Holy FUCK i'm sick of seeing this picture and hearing the "Its good enough" bullshit arguement with the cusco cage. Is it better than nothing? Probably. Will it save a MILD MILD MINOR SMALL rollover? Probably.

Is it a good design? NO. Would a REAL cage builder be lauged at if he made the exact same cage but no one knew it was "CUSCO"? YES. Will it survive a MAJOR rollover? Who knows. Why risk it?

^ This is pretty much the best response in this thread.

[Def]

The 14 you attacked has a 4 point cage.
Main hoop and bars going back.
same as you "seem" to have.

So, now what is the real issue?

There is no issue.

Go back and look at my post, I just said lucky it didn't keep rolling over. As in, it looks like the roll bar has already yielded(would a "custom" one yield as well? maybe), so if it kept going it'd be some people smashing time.

If you're happy with your cage, why are you getting so defensive in trying to defend it from statements that aren't even attacking it?

[Brian]

That's a main hoop with down bars in the back.

Where is the bad design?

[Brian]

Looks like you are right.

You mentioned that the back corner of the roof started to crumple.

You're right.

I just don't understand the point of you mentioning it.

Thread is about a roll cage.


However, then you start talking about clearance between YOUR cage and how tight the hoop is to the roof and how that would not be possible with an "off the shelf cage".

So, you did start making it about cages.... then started attacking the "design" of the down tubes and angles and whatnot.

[irax]

The more you can keep the structure of the car from folding in, the more strength it provides in the event of a roll over. This is as basic a statement as the sky is blue...
AHHHH nope not as basic as you think you fucking moron, crumple zone! if crumple zone's were not beneficial in crashes manufactures would makes cars rigid like tanks. Allowing crumpling around rigid structure reduces the forces applied. Take for instance, your arm. It takes 4lbs of shock pressure to brake the bone. But because you have muscle mass, fat, and 2 layers of skin it takes roughly ~22lbs or more. Again what do you expect to happen? You increase rigidity of something on the car to protect a specific thing that means something else is going to give. That cage in the s14 protected the driver and he was in the drivers seat. If there was a front passenger he would of survived too. With that cage you can't really fit anybody in the rear so it is ok that it is crimpled to save the lives of the people in the front. But like i said before the cages only increase the survivability on crashes and roll overs, who knows, your knock off steering wheel hub might break and stab you in the chest. But to say that the car needs to be more rigid in a crash is just bad science. If a car is more rigid it will transfer all the kinetic energy to the most flimsy:IE YOU. If a car is more rigid you will hurt more from the crash and most likely snap your neck or cause major brain damage.



fucking idiot, I'm not even a structural engineer and that idea is what is basic to me.

[Def]

AHHHH nope not as basic as you think you fucking moron, crumple zone! if crumple zone's were not beneficial in crashes manufactures would makes cars rigid like tanks. Allowing crumpling around rigid structure reduces the forces applied. Take for instance, your arm. It takes 4lbs of shock pressure to brake the bone. But because you have muscle mass, fat, and 2 layers of skin it takes roughly ~22lbs or more. Again what do you expect to happen? You increase rigidity of something on the car to protect a specific thing that means something else is going to give. That cage in the s14 protected the driver and he was in the drivers seat. If there was a front passenger he would of survived too. With that cage you can't really fit anybody in the rear so it is ok that it is crimpled to save the lives of the people in the front. But like i said before the cages only increase the survivability on crashes and roll overs, who knows, your knock off steering wheel hub might break and stab you in the chest. But to say that the car needs to be more rigid in a crash is just bad science. If a car is more rigid it will transfer all the kinetic energy to the most flimsy:IE YOU. If a car is more rigid you will hurt more from the crash and most likely snap your neck or cause major brain damage.



fucking idiot, I'm not even a structural engineer and that idea is what is basic to me.

You're right, you're not an engineer, or even have any common sense.

"Crumple zones" serve to slowly decelerate the car in the event of an impact. That's fine as long as you've got space to give. Unfortunately, the last thing you want to crumple is the roof right over your head. There is very little space to give, and any head impacts are usually VERY bad, so you want the cage structure up there to be as strong as possible.

I'd gladly take a little more G loading in a rollover compared to having my head and neck get crushed by the weight of the car coming down.

Go read up on the safety aims of cages, they are different than your average passenger car safety test.


I swear, fucking stupid kids. I wish there was a filter on this forum where you could only see posts made by people with an IQ at least one standard deviation above the mean.

[Brian]

I don't think anybody is wanting a roof to crumple on anybody.


So, now what is your point?

[Def]

Oh, so the issue at hand is street driven cars with cages?

No matter what cage you have, you might just smash your head on it.

That's pretty obvious...


How did that become the issue?


That's bigger issue in my mind than if your cage has clevises or where the load paths are IMO, as an occasionally street driven car with a bar right by your head is likely to have you seriously injured based on a head impact with the cage without a helmet vs. the cage not holding up in a rollover.

You keep asking me what my issue with bolt-in cages is, that's really it since they're commonly used in street cars, and it's not brand dependent if you'll notice...

[Brian]

I think it's time for me to jump out of the the thread.


fact remains - If you are a shit talker on Cusco/safety21 cages, you are simply a stupid idiot. Pictures, firsthand stories, etc. are not enough to change your mind.

A custom cage PROBABLY will be better off safety wise, but then again, you have to trust in the guy building it.

The only argument these guys can make is a "well, this COULD happen" "that MIGHT happen".

No facts, just ideas. wah wah wah.

Def also will not post a photo of his superior cage.

End of story.






the topic at hand. If you haven't already, please call D1 and ask them.
On the forums you will just end up with the never ending cage debate.

[Def]

I don't think anybody is wanting a roof to crumple on anybody.

Then what does a crumple zone have to do with a rollover?


So, now what is your point?

Can you not read or something? I'm responding to people quoting my threads and making my points quite apparent.

[Def]

I think it's time for me to jump out of the the thread.


fact remains - If you are a shit talker on Cusco/safety21 cages, you are simply a stupid idiot. Pictures, firsthand stories, etc. are not enough to change your mind.

A custom cage PROBABLY will be better off safety wise, but then again, you have to trust in the guy building it.

They're not ideal, but if they pass tech, then somebody in charge feels that they're adequate and that's fine with me.

Just like the average custom bling-bling roll cage for a clubracing car isn't going to pass tech for an unlimited class desert Trophy Truck, and it probably shouldn't have to as you're not going to hit boulders and crap with a track car.


That said, I don't think that makes someone an idiot for pointing out that there are better ways to build a cage. But I understand building a cage isn't for everybody as it's truly a PITA to do it yourself. It took me and a friend about 16-20 hrs of work to make just a roll bar for my car trying to get everything to fit tight and have the tubes fit well enough in common nodes to TIG everything. I have ideas on how to make it better, but it's enough of a PITA that I quickly let those go.

Everybody's got to make their own personal decisions on what safety equipment you use, and if it passes tech then that's all that really matters.

[SoSideways]

Then what does a crumple zone have to do with a rollover?

BH didn't say anything about crumple zones.

irax did.

:drama:

[Leetheslacker]

im going to build a cage out of foam pool noodles. that way i can never hurt myself if i hit my head on it.

i think it'll pass tech.

http://www.porchandparlour.com/Stedmans/Originals/PoolNoodle_CT.jpg

[Def]

BH didn't say anything about crumple zones.

irax did.

:drama:

I know, but the "what's your point statement" was aimed at me as far as I can tell.

I wasn't even trying to start shit in the first place. Maybe it's my moderately good grammar and diction, bumbling idiots on this forum seem to have a huge problem with that.

[irax]

I swear, fucking stupid kids. I wish there was a filter on this forum where you could only see posts made by people with an IQ at least one standard deviation above the mean.

LOL! then your ass would be filtered out jack ass! your brakes are used to decelerate. crumple zone reduces force, big difference. if you want to stroke your E-penis because you think sacrificing structure of a car where THE DRIVER THAT IS FUCKING RACING IS NOT is bad or horrible then go suck a fat one. In racing the only person that matters should be the only person in the car THE FUCKING DRIVER. All you are arguing about is semantics, it doesn't matter that the rear c pillar crumpled AROUND the fucking cage since it protected the fucking driver. So you know it all huh? then why bother posting on a forum? clearly you are too smart for us and need to stop wasting your time and go help solve real world problems. Sure these D1 cages are not as strict as Trophy Trucks, but then again these cars are not flying through the air at 150+mph off dunes or ramps. The the rear half of the cusco D1 cage meets the requirements of SCCA. If the front didn't have an extra bend in it, it would completely meet the requirements of SCCA where they do higher speeds and higher g loads because they are grip racing.


When you have a cage the whole car will become the crumple zone since the strongest structure is now the cage. I would see your point of talking down about cusco if they have ever failed. But you know what? they have yet to fail. Though I would not buy one of their cages I would much rather have one custom made at Part Shop Max (http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2081)

[zaquanh]

I think it's time for me to jump out of the the thread.




the topic at hand. If you haven't already, please call D1 and ask them.
On the forums you will just end up with the never ending cage debate.

yea i will probly do that or just take the specs from the rul book to a shop and just have them do it , this whole cusco shit is dumb ,



im going to build a cage out of foam pool noodles. that way i can never hurt myself if i hit my head on it.

i think it'll pass tech.

http://www.porchandparlour.com/Stedmans/Originals/PoolNoodle_CT.jpg


might work , i think i want to do the same now atleast i wont get a headache if i crash and hit my head

I know, but the "what's your point statement" was aimed at me as far as I can tell.

I wasn't even trying to start shit in the first place. Maybe it's my moderately good grammar and diction, bumbling idiots on this forum seem to have a huge problem with that.


hey who are you , not to shit talk or nthn but if ur cage is really that bad ass id like to see it ,

are you goin to mineral wells?

[ZenkiCam]

bah, im about to sell my weld in cage, mind you its not in the car yet haha. if i every go with another cage it will probably just be an autopower or something.

[EDacIouSX]

How is letting the back corner of the roof completely collapse when hit there "holding up?" Looks like they were lucky that roll didn't keep going and hit further up on the roof.

look at the passenger b pillar you tard.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/zasb2/Untitled-224.jpg

Holy FUCK i'm sick of seeing this picture

orly?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/zasb2/Untitled-224.jpghttp://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/zasb2/Untitled-224.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/zasb2/Untitled-224.jpg

[ZenkiCam]

Rebel!!!!!

[EDacIouSX]

crumple zone reduces force, big difference. i

You're right, you're not an engineer, or even have any common sense.

"Crumple zones" serve to slowly decelerate the car in the event of an impact.


sorry but you both are wrongs, crumple zones do not reduce force, and they DO NOT slowly decelerate the car. reduce force, ok i can understand that but wtf? slowly decelerate the car in the event of an impact?

epic fail.





Crumple zones serve one Purpose, and that purpose is to spread for force AROUND the car. So, when a car is hit in the front right, the force of that imapct is suppose to spread the impact Around the cabin.

Maybe i should explain more....

the cabin is suppose to be the strongest part of the car. if the car was super hard then the force would have a bigger effect on the passengers, basically when a car gets in a crash the passengers would get tossed around and the car would just come to a complete stop. does this make sense? i hope so.... watched a video all about crumple zones and crashes... top gear season 2.

[irax]

sorry but you both are wrongs, crumple zones do not reduce force, and they DO NOT slowly decelerate the car. reduce force, ok i can understand that but wtf? slowly decelerate the car in the event of an impact?

epic fail.





Crumple zones serve one Purpose, and that purpose is to spread for force AROUND the car. So, when a car is hit in the front right, the force of that imapct is suppose to spread the impact Around the cabin.

Maybe i should explain more....

the cabin is suppose to be the strongest part of the car. if the car was super hard then the force would have a bigger effect on the passengers, basically when a car gets in a crash the passengers would get tossed around and the car would just come to a complete stop. does this make sense? i hope so.... watched a video all about crumple zones and crashes... top gear season 2.

well reducing force applied to the passengers is what i implied or was thinking

but yes you are right

[Def]

LOL! then your ass would be filtered out jack ass! your brakes are used to decelerate. crumple zone reduces force, big difference. if you want to stroke your E-penis because you think sacrificing structure of a car where THE DRIVER THAT IS FUCKING RACING IS NOT is bad or horrible then go suck a fat one. In racing the only person that matters should be the only person in the car THE FUCKING DRIVER. All you are arguing about is semantics, it doesn't matter that the rear c pillar crumpled AROUND the fucking cage since it protected the fucking driver. So you know it all huh? then why bother posting on a forum? clearly you are too smart for us and need to stop wasting your time and go help solve real world problems. Sure these D1 cages are not as strict as Trophy Trucks, but then again these cars are not flying through the air at 150+mph off dunes or ramps. The the rear half of the cusco D1 cage meets the requirements of SCCA. If the front didn't have an extra bend in it, it would completely meet the requirements of SCCA where they do higher speeds and higher g loads because they are grip racing.


When you have a cage the whole car will become the crumple zone since the strongest structure is now the cage. I would see your point of talking down about cusco if they have ever failed. But you know what? they have yet to fail. Though I would not buy one of their cages I would much rather have one custom made at Part Shop Max (http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2081)

Cusco cages do not meet any SCCA/NASA requirements according to the information I got about them. The wall thickness is too thin, and they require all joints to be 360 degree welded. Cusco cages are bolted together with clevises.

I can't even decipher what your fetal alcohol syndrome rambling is getting at on the first "paragraph" of run-on sentences, so I won't address that.


Please go drink some Drain-O or something...

[Def]

sorry but you both are wrongs, crumple zones do not reduce force, and they DO NOT slowly decelerate the car. reduce force, ok i can understand that but wtf? slowly decelerate the car in the event of an impact?

epic fail.





Crumple zones serve one Purpose, and that purpose is to spread for force AROUND the car. So, when a car is hit in the front right, the force of that imapct is suppose to spread the impact Around the cabin.

Maybe i should explain more....

the cabin is suppose to be the strongest part of the car. if the car was super hard then the force would have a bigger effect on the passengers, basically when a car gets in a crash the passengers would get tossed around and the car would just come to a complete stop. does this make sense? i hope so.... watched a video all about crumple zones and crashes... top gear season 2.

Of course the passenger compartment is supposed to stay together, but the real aim of crumple zones is to give the car longer to slow down vs. a super strong bumper causing a huge deceleration.

At least Google before you post something up that makes you sound like a fool...

Crumple zone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crumple_zone)

And from the article:

In an abstract physical sense, a secondary point of crumple zones is to slow down the collision, not just to absorb energy. The difference between slamming someone into a wall headfirst (breaking their skull) and shoulder-first (bruising their flesh slightly) is that the arm, being softer, has tens of times longer to slow its speed, yielding a little at a time, than the hard skull, which isn't in contact with the wall until it has to deal with extremely high pressures.

[Def]

hey who are you , not to shit talk or nthn but if ur cage is really that bad ass id like to see it ,

are you goin to mineral wells?

Fuck, I've said it three times in this thread, I don't have a cage! I have a roll bar with 4 points and would like to add some gussets to the b-pillar if I ever get around to it.

It's not completely badass, it just fits the car pretty well.


I've been out to Mineral Wells, but I don't go to drift events if you're asking if I'm going out for the drift thing.

[karl wasabi]

Still going on about this, huh Def? You should just leave it alone. You've killed it. No one likes you anymore. haha.

You are right, blah blah blah, are you happy? You win. Now, no one wants to read about your god-sent-cage-voodoo-blacksmith-yee-haw-NASCAR-split-atomic-theory-E=MC²-ZOMGWTF building skillz anymore.

[J_Konnexion]

I'll just leave this here.
S2000 Forums -> Roll bar/roll cage pic thread. (http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=484336&view=findpost&p=10395943)

[bejota180sx]

http://noriyaro.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/bihoku_180sx_flip_crash_015.jpg



I really didn't see that this was stated, im kind of in a hurry but i wanted to clarify that the car pictured here and i quote "
The car actually jumped up the dirt hill, did a half-spin in mid air and landed square on the roof from over a meter up, then spun around a couple of times before stopping." -alexi...

i see that front bar that so much haters talk about perfectly in place, it didn't collapse and it didn't let the roof crush all the way down from the hit when it landed...

like brian said a few pages before what the hell are you guys doing in your cars that need a 25 point cage? are you guys planning on doing backflips in your car ala rhys millen? plan on landing on your roof from 20feet or something?

cusco's aren't perfect, but they have proven themselves enough to stop being called "death traps"...

[Def]

Still going on about this, huh Def? You should just leave it alone. You've killed it. No one likes you anymore. haha.

You are right, blah blah blah, are you happy? You win. Now, no one wants to read about your god-sent-cage-voodoo-blacksmith-yee-haw-NASCAR-split-atomic-theory-E=MC²-ZOMGWTF building skillz anymore.

I think it's amusing that some people on this thread think I'm a cage fabricator.


If not swinging off someone's nuts on Zilvia makes the kids on here hate me, then I'm cool with that. :fawk:

[BillWatcher]

I think its more people do not like you because you feel you are better than them, because you really think your grammar makes you a better person. Also you seem to talk out your bum. I have ran 2 NASA events with a saftey21 as well as 5 SCCA events and passed tech every time.

[irax]

Cusco cages do not meet any SCCA/NASA requirements according to the information I got about them. The wall thickness is too thin, and they require all joints to be 360 degree welded. Cusco cages are bolted together with clevises.

I was talking about the design not necessarily the materials


I can't even decipher what your fetal alcohol syndrome rambling is getting at on the first "paragraph" of run-on sentences, so I won't address that.


Please go drink some Drain-O or something...


ohh so instead of correcting me or actually showing information to prove me wrong you just come up with personal attacks, clearly your the better man. Sure my grammar might not be best, but then again I do not rely on wikipidea for information. If you are so smart you would know it is not a creditable site to use as a source in academia.

[Def]

I think its more people do not like you because you feel you are better than them, because you really think your grammar makes you a better person. Also you seem to talk out your bum. I have ran 2 NASA events with a saftey21 as well as 5 SCCA events and passed tech every time.

You guys really do get bent out of shape when someone can write in complete sentences don't you? hah :keke:

"Events" - I'm assuming you're talking about DEs. You don't need ANY sort of cage/rollbar to pass tech at a DE - it's all about not leaking fluids, having brake pads, and having some tread on your tires.

They actually have rules regarding the geometry, construction, material, and wall thickness of a cage in racing. The only bolt-in ones that'd pass are Autopower and Kirk Racing that I know of.

[Def]

I was talking about the design not necessarily the materials


They both matter homeslice.




ohh so instead of correcting me or actually showing information to prove me wrong you just come up with personal attacks, clearly your the better man. Sure my grammar might not be best, but then again I do not rely on wikipidea for information. If you are so smart you would know it is not a creditable site to use as a source in academia.

Trust me, teaching you engineering fundamentals would probably be a futile as trying to teach a fruit fly how to pilot the space shuttle; it's about the last thing I'd want to do.

I'd hardly equate a post on Zilvia that explains that they don't know what the term "deceleration" means as it applies to crashes with a formal academic work!!! :bowrofl:

[ayuaddict]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f102/nenhenry/zasb2/Untitled-224.jpg



why is it that in like 90% of zilvia threads a henry photo is shown?

[zaquanh]

Fuck, I've said it three times in this thread, I don't have a cage! I have a roll bar with 4 points and would like to add some gussets to the b-pillar if I ever get around to it.

It's not completely badass, it just fits the car pretty well.


I've been out to Mineral Wells, but I don't go to drift events if you're asking if I'm going out for the drift thing.

o ok yea i figured u was a drifter , but thats cool tho

[karl wasabi]

why is it that in like 90% of zilvia threads a henry photo is shown?

Because he took the best pics of it. haha. I know I have seen a lot more pictures of this crash, but I can't seem to find them. I remember also seeing a picture of where the roof crushed all the way to the cage.

Hmm...the cage stopped the roof from crushing in? WTF???

[teamsprock]

The more I read these threads on Zilvia especially when Def is giving very good information and you all dismiss it because some guy drifting rolled his car and his cage didn't collapse. I've seen cars roll with no cage/bar and they car didn't collapse. Doesn't make it safe to race. And going through tech inspections with a cusco cage and passing just means they aren't doing the correct inspection or as Def said you are doing DE's where a cage is not required. Cusco cages are not SCCA/NASA legal plain and simple, the original poster wanted to know which cages are legal. And there is no way around it, the Cusco/Safety 21 cages do not meet the requirements. I can't believe some of the comments in this thread.

If you talk to the people that are honest and sell Cusco cages they will tell you that their cages are not legal because of the materials used and the material thickness. Plain and simple you can mock people who are trying to be helpful and use the well it worked on one car so why not use it to try and justify your argument. But that does not change the fact these are built with lesser quality materials and should not pass tech inspection. But as any of us know there are plenty of inspectors that really don't know any better and pass a lot of things that shouldn't. Their lack of experience doesn't change the fact that its not really legal.

[Brian]

^^^^
You sure about that?

[teamsprock]

I'm not mocking Safety21 cages but stating that the Cusco cages do not use the materials set out in the guidelines for almost all sanctioning bodies. What kind of cage do you have? Hum I bet Safety21, no wonder you think they are so nice.

I know that Safety21 has cages that meet FIA requirements, but most of the cages people buy from Cusco are not and are not because of the materials they use. The OP wanted to know what cages are legal. So why not be helpful and exlain why a cage is or is not legal.

I'm not saying we all need a custom built crazy cage, but if someone wants to know which cages meet the requirements I don't see why we should lie and tell him to get a cusco when they really don't meet the guidelines.

[Brian]

Judging by the title and first post, I think the guy wants to know what cage he can use in D1GP.
(maybe he changed his idea later, I'm not sure. I did not read the thread again)

Did you read the D1 rulebook and/or call D1?

Did you ask if the Safety21 or Cusco cages are legal for use?


THIS is my point.

[SprockCapn]

I should just scan up my cusco catalog that shows ALL the cages they make.

They have FIA cages, just so you know.



Cages SHOULD be mostly for looks anyways.

Call me crazy, but I thought cages were to save your life not make you look tight.

[Brian]

You're crazy.

What is "tight"? I don't understand this lingo.

[irax]

You're crazy.

What is "tight"? I don't understand this lingo.

dude, that's heavy!

[SprockCapn]

You're crazy.

What is "tight"? I don't understand this lingo.
I'm just saying that you said that cages are supposed to look cool. While I hope you were joking about this, but from your previous post, who knows.

[teamsprock]

The main roll cage hoop shall be as wide as the full width of the interior and must be as close to the roof as possible. One continuous length of roll bar tubing shall be used as the main hoop.The main hoop must consist of not more than four (4) bends maximum, totaling one hundred
eighty (180) degrees +/- ten (10) degrees.

Diagonal Brace
At least one (1) diagonal brace shall be used in the same plane as the main hoop. One end of the diagonal brace shall attach to the corner, or horizontal part, of the main hoop above the driver’s head, within twelve (12) inches of the driver’s-side corner. The other end of the diagonal brace shall attach to the mounting plate (or to the main hoop as close to the mounting plate as practically possible) diagonally opposed to the driver’s head (passenger floor).

Cusco cages besides the thin material they are built with also have a total of 5 bends in the main hoop and no diagonal bar. In the end I guess its up to what people feel safe with in their car. Personally I'd buy a Kirk or S&W long before a cusco.

[Brian]

Oh, maybe you can't use Cusco / Safety21.

I don't know.


Usually those "diagonal" bars and 'harness" bars totally ruin the look of a cage. I would never put one of those bars in my car.

[Brian]

http://www.napsusa.com/Nukabe/pictures/safety21Points.jpg
Here are just SOME of the Dash Escape versions of the cages that are available.
They look pretty sick.

[karl wasabi]

I'm just saying that you said that cages are supposed to look cool. While I hope you were joking about this, but from your previous post, who knows.

ZOMG. This thread is started up again?

I'm gonna have to agree with Brian. Cages...saving lives? Nah, cages ARE just there for show. Have you seen Brian's cage? It's ALL blinged out!!!

[Otto347]

Just go the rock crawler route and put an exo cage on a 240!!!!!!!

[420sx]

what really pisses me off that FD will pass DOM fucking steel cage and not chromoly which is a lot stronger and flexes under extreme load and doesn't crush in. guys in NHRA run chromoly and those fuckers go over 200 mph! did you see their crashes? now that is intense.

now cusco is alum. thats a joke of a cage. really. it does provide some protection and stiffens up the chassis but thats the extend of it. no serious racer out there uses it. thats just the bottom line. just because it is jdm and guys in option videos had them doesnt make it great. if you look a lot of people run REAL cages. not bolt in. welded with gussets and extra support that will protect the driver and stiffen the chassis and prevent it from twisting.

[Brian]

when did Cusco become aluminum?

I thought it was CHROMOLY.

Kumakubo used to run a cool Cusco through dash in his S15. I guess he isn't a real racer though.

[Camo]

just buy the material and throw me some cash. I'll build you a cage quan.

[420sx]

when did Cusco become aluminum?

I thought it was CHROMOLY.

Kumakubo used to run a cool Cusco through dash in his S15. I guess he isn't a real racer though.

it is chromoly, i was thinking of the door inserts and my dumbass for some reason thought they all made out of alum ( which is stupid).

not sure if i care about Kumakubo or other drivers. we are in america.

[Brian]

Oh, Russian...

[ericcastro]

not sure if i care about Kumakubo or other drivers. we are in america.

LMAO!!!!

what a dumb fucking statement.
You some sort of hillbilly redneck that doesnt realize you live on EARTH, not just your little corner of the world??
Or maybe you will never leave the town you were born and raised in?
Well, maybe one time to go to disneyworld with the wife and 3 kids......


"hey brrrro!,
we have nascar this year in russia!
We race Lada cars!!
we are the best.
I dont care about Jeff Gordon or what they do where Nascar was started and pioneered to the excellent sport it is. They couldn't teach me anything. All there years of experience and trial and eror and race skills couldn't help me!!"


this thread is AWSOME !!!


So everyone knows.
Im gonna buy a cage for $200 that is a knock off of a cusco!!
Fuck yeah, I just need to pass tech!

When I start drifting at 90mph, I will have a better quality cage.
But drifting at 50mph on opn tracks or even walled courses, Ijust need to pass tech for tandem.


BTW, found this when trying to find the spelling for LADA, pretty cool.
RB25 LADA!
must haul ass!
http://www.engineswapdepot.com/?p=65
http://englishrussia.com/images/vaz_2105_tuning/2.jpg

[racepar1]

Cages SHOULD be mostly for looks anyways.

A roll cage SHOULD NEVER be just for looks. A roll cage is primarily a safety item and it's secondary purpose is a chasis brace. It just so happens that they look rad as shit.

I would agree that the cusco/safety21 cages leave a lot to be desired from an engineering standpoint. In the real world though they do their job alright. NEVER buy an autopower cage, they fit like a giant steaming pile of donkey shit. The cusco/safety21 cages fit much better. If you are going to buy a cage you should always get a through dash cage at least. Those s-bends are VERY disconcerting from an engineering standpoint. They will work fine most of the time, but there is a quite good chance that they will fail. I will guarantee you that any cage that meets scca specs will also meet D1 specs as long as all the required bars are present. FYI any cage with an s-bend around the dash is NOT legal for redline time attack events either.

[Brian]

Are you SURE?

I thought for SURE cages were mostly for an aesthetic point...

[racepar1]

Are you SURE?

I thought for SURE cages were mostly for an aesthetic point...

LOL. Brian with you everything is an aesthetic point! They do look rad as all hell though so I would consider a dope ass cage an aesthetic point as well!

[Paul2x]

Looks ftw!! =)

[usdm180sx]

Sorry to revive this but I did a search and found this thread because I am installing a cage for my car.

You Cusco haters talk like they hire engineers straight out of preschool. The only problem is that they just happen to work very well so far.

If u don't like Cusco that's awesome.

But to talk shit about them after seeing them in action is ignorant. Fuck this "what if" bullshit. Fact is that no one died in cars that crashed with cusco cages so far.

Even with the S-Bends. Keep on hating...

[roboticnissan]

If you have to ask...


your a [email protected]$$

[Brian]

Hey Norm, call me.