clutch fan delete. DO's and DON'Ts

[S14Cuhh]

..on a kaDE setup. what do you people out there have to say

-definitely gonna run an e-fan but besides that


http://media6.dropshots.com/photos/455252/20081227/123033.jpg (http://www.dropshots.com/drunkidom#date/2008-12-27/12:30:33)

[singlecamslam]

Clutch fan with shroud is the best most efficient set up.

[palmdale_mob]

^^ Seriously?

[projectRDM]

^^ Seriously?

Welcome to Earth. Yes. A clutch fan can move more air than any electric fan and with less drag on the engine. A good size electric fan can pull up to 30amps, putting a drain on the alternator and forcing it to work harder. The clutch fan is bolted to the water pump, it's not much more effort to turn the clutch than to just turn the pump alone. With the shroud in place you're directing 100% of the air through the radiator, maximizing it's efficiency too, keeping the coolant that much cooler overall.

That said, a lot of people remove it to gain room or to reduce noise and do fine with electric fans, and as any FWD car owner can attest to an electric fan does the job fine, but it's only because a clutch fan wouldn't work on a transverse layout.

[!Zar!]

Zilvia to the rescue.

projectRDM is 100% right.

[palmdale_mob]

^^ Good stuff
I thought that w/o the clutch fan its less weight for the belts to spin, therefore more hp
So even if its deleted that makes the alternator work harder for an electric fan so its kind of a lose-lose on the gaining hp aspect?

[projectRDM]

^^ Good stuff
I thought that w/o the clutch fan its less weight for the belts to spin, therefore more hp
So even if its deleted that makes the alternator work harder for an electric fan so its kind of a lose-lose on the gaining hp aspect?

Exactly. You're not gaining anything by just replacing one draw with another one. Take a clutch and fan off and weigh it, it's virtually nothing. Any gains achieved by removing it are so negligible you'd never notice it.

That being said though, I do not run a clutch fan due to fitment issues. But I also have a very nice shroud that I spent a lot of time making and plenty of ducting in front of it so my two electric fans at least still direct 100% of the airflow needed through the radiator. Simply placing one big fan or even a pair on the radiator's core with those little ziptie deals results in the air blowing across the entire core support, above, below, and around the radiator. Remember that when you're driving the air coming through the radiator is pushing against the air you're creating from the fan. Not channeling it correctly leads to a greater loss of directed airflow. That big fan may do wonders when the car is sitting still but without a proper shroud it's not worth much when moving.

[palmdale_mob]

Wow I just learned something, thanks man

[slow40sx]

makes sense but i think i'll stick with my slim-fans and air diversion panel

[HyperTek]

this might give you some ideas to do it right if you do it.
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/233498-teks-budget-elec-fan-swap-w-pontiac-fiero-gt-fan.html

Make sure you get a fan with a shroud.. Good junkyard fans are ford Taurus 3.8l fan, and pontiac fiero GT... since they both have shrouds and fit the rads pretty good with little to no trimming.

Dont skimp on wiring.. and you should have a good idea of how things work.. so you dont want to be out driving and see your temps skyrocket and not be able to pull over and quickly diagnose why your fan didnt cool etc etc.

[gyula hlavati]

Wow I just learned something, thanks man
^^^
Same here.

[juice.def]

Clutch fan coming through with the clutch....:keke::keke:

[!Zar!]

Clutch fan coming through with the clutch....:keke::keke:

Wait...

wut?

[khmer1]

this might give you some ideas to do it right if you do it.
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/233498-teks-budget-elec-fan-swap-w-pontiac-fiero-gt-fan.html

Make sure you get a fan with a shroud.. Good junkyard fans are ford Taurus 3.8l fan, and pontiac fiero GT... since they both have shrouds and fit the rads pretty good with little to no trimming.

Dont skimp on wiring.. and you should have a good idea of how things work.. so you dont want to be out driving and see your temps skyrocket and not be able to pull over and quickly diagnose why your fan didnt cool etc etc.

what year taurus for the people that dont know

[g6civcx]

On my V8 I would have preferred to use a clutch fan and shroud, but due to engine placement so far back I couldn't find a clutch fan long enough to fit.

I'm using FAL fans which should only pull 19.5A, but the fans still drive the electronics in my car crazy with noise.

[DDSR240]

First off I wouldn't think that the wieght of the clutch fan wouldbe what causes the most drag it would most certianly be the air resistance it encounters when its trying move x amount of cfm. then you said that it makes the alternator work harder well couldn't you just get a higher amp alternator out of that pathfinder I think its like a 90 amp. Then all you havee to do is choose wisely on you e fan set-up= low current draw+high cfm electric motors are getting more efficiant every day. Not that I'm bashing clutch fans but e-fans are not that bad.

[murda-c]

I pulled my clutch fan off without replacing it with another fan kekekeke.

my clutch was seized and i got tired of it sounding like a ups truck.

doesn't overheat because i don't sit in traffic, i'll replace it before summer though.

[projectRDM]

First off I wouldn't think that the wieght of the clutch fan wouldbe what causes the most drag it would most certianly be the air resistance it encounters when its trying move x amount of cfm. then you said that it makes the alternator work harder well couldn't you just get a higher amp alternator out of that pathfinder I think its like a 90 amp. Then all you havee to do is choose wisely on you e fan set-up= low current draw+high cfm electric motors are getting more efficiant every day. Not that I'm bashing clutch fans but e-fans are not that bad.

No one said electric fans are bad. They're fine. They're not as efficient as a clutch fan, simple. A higher output alternator, say even a 110A Quest model will still require more draw as it loads up, and as most Nissan alternators do the gains in amperage are only at higher RPMs, the 90A Zenki SE model outputs the same amperage as the base 80A below 4k RPM. So at idle and cruising speeds a larger alternator isn't doing any better than what you already had.

[IStop4NoMan]

I had dual FAL fans with the DIF dual fan controller and it was drawing a serious amount of power when both fans were running. i had to ditch the miata sized battery i had since 5 seconds of the fans on would drop the voltage below 13Volts. I upgraded to a stronger battery and didnt have the voltage problem.
Eventually i went back to the clutch fan and i cant tell a difference in power, but my average temps are only 140 degrees F. I guess the koyo aluminum rad is overkill with the clutch fan haha.

[NissanGuy16]

My s14 has a stock electric fan for the A/C which comes on when the A/C is on or then the motor reaches a certain temperature. The clutch in my belt driven fan seized so I took it off. "UPS truck" LMAO that's exactly what it sounds like. I have no cooling problems with my car and I live an hour away from Myrtle Beach so it gets hot here during the summer.

[projectRDM]

My s14 has a stock electric fan for the A/C which comes on when the A/C is on or then the motor reaches a certain temperature. The clutch in my belt driven fan seized so I took it off. "UPS truck" LMAO that's exactly what it sounds like. I have no cooling problems with my car and I live an hour away from Myrtle Beach so it gets hot here during the summer.

We know this. All Schassis cars have an electric fan as a supplement to the clutch fan. On S14s it's a 2speed unit, low speed comes on at 203 degrees, high speed at 212 or when the A/C switch is engaged. No one said you have to run the clutch fan, it's usually fine without it as long as your cooling system is up to par, but it cools better and more efficiently with it installed.

[Keith_Bergen]

I had to ditch my clutch fan due to the blades cracking and almost ready to break off, so i bought myself an fal dual electric designed for my 240, uses the mounts for the stock a/c electric fan which makes it super easy to install, really cleans up the engine bay, covers the entire rad surface area so there is no bypass of the fans so you get best efficiency, and is also wired through a constant so it cools after the car is turned off, never had a problem with battery draw, and also wired to turn on when a/c is on like the stock electric did. I love it and would never go back to the stock clutch fan

[96Turbo]

Sorta off topic...but how do you recommend ducting a push-fan setup? Instead of building ducting around the fan and rad (on a pull setup), would i want to duct as much air from the inlet in my bumper to the front of the rad? (i'm thinking like a sheet metal "tunnel" surrounding the rad).

I know it's not ideal (pushing vs. pulling)....but i have no other choice after stuffing in a straight 6 (at least i haven't found any fans slim enough yet...)

[projectRDM]

Juts like you said it, make a tunnel to direct airflow to the fan from the bumper opening. Start with cardboard to get your pieces right then step up to sheetmetal, that way you're only making the cuts once. Use door edge guard on the edges to prevent cutting anything and foam tape to seal it tight.

[WERDdabuilder]

Clutch fan coming through with the clutch....:keke::keke:

will you be at the laugh factory this week?

[LA_phantom_240]

I removed my OEM fan:
1) For more room in the engine bay.
2) Cause I had Altima fans laying around.
3) Cause I don't like sounding like a dump truck when accelerating.

On S14s it's a 2speed unit, low speed comes on at 203 degrees, high speed at 212 or when the A/C switch is engaged.

This I didn't know. I thought it was just high temp or A/C. I have to rewire my fans soon anyway, so I think I'm gonna try to take advantage of this.

[ryguy]

I have no cooling problems with my car and I live an hour away from Myrtle Beach so it gets hot here during the summer.

Same here, I have owned two S13s, neither of which had any kind of fan on them (besides the stock electric fan). I have 100 degree+ summers, and lots of traffic. Pfft, fan schman.

[Mister.E]

Same here, I have owned two S13s, neither of which had any kind of fan on them (besides the stock electric fan). I have 100 degree+ summers, and lots of traffic. Pfft, fan schman.

it may not make any difference in stop and go traffic or just normal daily driving, but it is crucial to have your shit setup properly if you are hitting the track.

[projectRDM]

This I didn't know. I thought it was just high temp or A/C. I have to rewire my fans soon anyway, so I think I'm gonna try to take advantage of this.

The best way is to use two more relays and leg them off the OE signal from the ECU. That way both fans can be used for both low and high speeds. Fuse the input power to 30A each just like the original circuits.

[wangan_cruiser]

i have a ford taurus e fan with the shroud. never had the problem.

[LA_phantom_240]

The best way is to use two more relays and leg them off the OE signal from the ECU. That way both fans can be used for both low and high speeds. Fuse the input power to 30A each just like the original circuits.

Right. I just figured it was an understood thing to use relays. lol.

Then again... This IS Zilvia.

[flip240]

thanks for the insight RDM, I was planning to go clutchless w/ dual electricals, but now I know I don't have to waste $$ on that :)

[singlecamslam]

For track use, i use the stock clutch and shroud, but i also have an additional pusher fan on long waits at the track.

[projectRDM]

thanks for the insight RDM, I was planning to go clutchless w/ dual electricals, but now I know I don't have to waste $$ on that :)

Just make sure to keep the shroud, without it the fan is useless. You can even run some sealing foam around the edges where it meets the radiator for even more air direction.

[S14Cuhh]

all good stuff here. ima try an e-fan for a little, and maybe make a diversion tunnel. also what temp is normal for KA im going to install a temp gauge first..then see the difference with the clutch and e fan

[Om1kron]

thanks for the insight RDM, I was planning to go clutchless w/ dual electricals, but now I know I don't have to waste $$ on that :)

electric fan setup from a ford taurus is cheap as hell, but the 30 amp draw everytime that bitch comes on could hurt you especially with other electronics running and having one of those shitty lawnmower batteries in your car. It wont provide enough power for everything including your lights and your alternator will end up working double time and eventually burn out faster.

the new variable speed diff fan control unit looks like a cool addition to an electric fan setup if it can actually controll the speed, voltage of a large draw electric fan.

But at 200 bucks introductory pricing I dunno how many cheap 240 owners will take that dive for the convenience of "engine bay space"

[shift_jin]

like everyone projectrdm taught me something too

[LA_phantom_240]

electric fan setup from a ford taurus is cheap as hell, but the 30 amp draw everytime that bitch comes on could hurt you especially with other electronics running and having one of those shitty lawnmower batteries in your car. It wont provide enough power for everything including your lights and your alternator will end up working double time and eventually burn out faster.

the new variable speed diff fan control unit looks like a cool addition to an electric fan setup if it can actually controll the speed, voltage of a large draw electric fan.

But at 200 bucks introductory pricing I dunno how many cheap 240 owners will take that dive for the convenience of "engine bay space"

You ever been fat and tried to stick your arms in front of the motor with that monster fan in the way?

$200 is acceptable at that point, and $50 for altima fans is like eating off the dollar menu.

[96Turbo]

like everyone projectrdm taught me something too

projectrdm taught me everything i know. from macking bitches to quantum mechanics

[!Zar!]

projectRDM taught me how to make over $30k a month just selling items online.

[96Turbo]

projectRDM taught me how to make over $30k a month just selling items online.

GTFO! you sellin e-crack?? what happens when you run out of shit to sell? lol

perhaps we should start a "what i learned from projectrdm" thread

[S14Cuhh]

projectrdm has good solid advice. props to you RDM

[projectRDM]

you guys are clowns.

As far as running out of shit to sell, I can't wait for that day to come. I've still got a friend's basement full of shit I need to inventory. I've learned some Schassis parts really do multiply. Wiper motors especially. I must have 40 of those fucking things.

[MAXIMUS_PR]

if i decide to delete the clutch and use a spacer what size it should be?
also what are the pro's and con's by doing this?

[DRFT180]

Here's a question I've never seen brought up.

Is the stock fan clutch thermostatic? Such as, when temps rise due to traffic, racing, drifting, ect., does the clutch "lock up" more because of the hotter air flowing bye causing the fan to spin faster?

I have been through:
Stock
Altima's
Taurus
and back to stock

I've learned my lesson

[S14Cuhh]

Here's a question I've never seen brought up.

Is the stock fan clutch thermostatic? Such as, when temps rise due to traffic, racing, drifting, ect., does the clutch "lock up" more because of the hotter air flowing bye causing the fan to spin faster?

I have been through:
Stock
Altima's
Taurus
and back to stock

I've learned my lesson
you my friend..have talkied me into keep the clutch fan, besides project rdm already teach me everything i will ever need to know :D

[LA_phantom_240]

Here's a question I've never seen brought up.

Is the stock fan clutch thermostatic? Such as, when temps rise due to traffic, racing, drifting, ect., does the clutch "lock up" more because of the hotter air flowing bye causing the fan to spin faster?

I have been through:
Stock
Altima's
Taurus
and back to stock

I've learned my lesson

I'm pretty sure it IS thermostatic, to a degree.

What was so wrong with altima fans?

[DRFT180]

I would say the Altima's were second best to the clutch fan. Only when properly ducted after cutting them up to fit. That made a huge difference, and the only thing I didn't like was the voltage drop when on. Also the temperature fluctuations you get with an e-fan.

I did not like how much of the radiator the taurus fans did NOT cover. A nice chunk of the radiator was not even being used.

I did have a DiF fan controller, so they were not constantly running


For the clutch fan, just make sure you have all the pieces to the shroud and it is sealed to the radiator

[DRFT180]

Oh and I had to take my billion thermo out and put an OEM one back in.

I was uncomfortable with 70c cruising temps.

[LA_phantom_240]

My car barely gets warm with the fans off. With the fans on low, I can cruise.

Interstate?

LOL.

[apexi240sx]

both fan clutches and shrouds remain on my s13 sr20 and my s14 ka24... oem cooling setup is the best!

[aNskY]

On my V8 I would have preferred to use a clutch fan and shroud, but due to engine placement so far back I couldn't find a clutch fan long enough to fit.

I'm using FAL fans which should only pull 19.5A, but the fans still drive the electronics in my car crazy with noise.


Your grounds are too far apart. ground everything at a grounding block near the -terminal and you'll notice the "noise" go bye bye!

[Dream240]

I have been down the "screw the clutch fan" road. Only to have my S14s constantly overheat at a light with the A/C on.

I just run the stock setup and keep my weight down to 175. (I hate fat arms)

Here's a question for you guys:

Can the infamous OEM fan blade cracking problem be solved by some epoxy or JB weld at the cracks? Anyone tried this? Does it mess with the balance and rotation of the fan if done properly? I need to figure something out before some fan blades jam their way into my engine bay.

Thanks.

[!Zar!]

Infamous?

I've NEVER thrown a fan blade.

I wouldn't worry about it.

As long as it's in good shape, you're fine.

[Om1kron]

I kind of want a stock clutch fan and shroud now =(

[Dream240]

Infamous?

I've NEVER thrown a fan blade.

I wouldn't worry about it.

As long as it's in good shape, you're fine.

By infamous, I mean the actual cracking of EVERY fan blade at the base of the blade. Now I've yet to see a fan that didn't have this problem.

I'm sure it's heat related, and by infamous I mean very common.

And that's the problem......it's not in good shape if the blades are cracking at the base!! Right?!?

[!Zar!]

By infamous, I mean the actual cracking of EVERY fan blade at the base of the blade. Now I've yet to see a fan that didn't have this problem.

I'm sure it's heat related, and by infamous I mean very common.

And that's the problem......it's not in good shape if the blades are cracking at the base!! Right?!?

None of my seven s-chassis' have had that problem.

Nor has other people local to me who use to/still do have 240's.

I'm not saying it's impossible for it to happen.

I'm just saying that that is hardly a reason for me to be worried or see that as a reason to upgrade.

[Dream240]

None of my seven s-chassis' have had that problem.

Nor has other people local to me who use to/still do have 240's.

I'm not saying it's impossible for it to happen.

I'm just saying that that is hardly a reason for me to be worried or see that as a reason to upgrade.

I'm not talking about it being a reason for an upgrade. I was asking if repairing the cracks with some epoxy or JB weld would directly affect the rotating properties of the fan, thus doing more harm than good. Just opinions is all I'm really looking for.

I would say I've seen this problem on about 15 240s over the years. All 5 cars that have been in my possession, some I've bought trying to fix this problem, and then some on other owner's cars. All in all, a pretty wierd problem considering that the only wear and tear SHOULD be dirt on the blades. I guess I just live in the twilight zone part of CA.

[KrisLN]

So from this thread, I got that the only benefit of the electric fans are freeing up space. So if you were turbo charging the stock dual cam is it possible to run the stock clutch fan and shroud? Or would you need more space for the piping? And even then, would the clutch fan be able to keep the engine cool if it was turbo?

[joshg51]

So from this thread, I got that the only benefit of the electric fans are freeing up space. So if you were turbo charging the stock dual cam is it possible to run the stock clutch fan and shroud? Or would you need more space for the piping? And even then, would the clutch fan be able to keep the engine cool if it was turbo?

Yes it is possible to run stock shroud and fan setup with KA-T whether you're running stock sr20 side mount or aftermarket front mount setup. I'd recommend making sure your fan clutch works fine, upgrading to the gktech fan blade and using a good aluminum radiator. I see people with built SRs and KA-T setups stay perfectly in operating temp with this setup.

[jedi03]

im all for e fans...did FAL and Altima...Altima were loud and FAL were quiet. I did the DTC fan controller which worked perfectly...kept temps low and ran when engine off too to keep things cooling afterward...no issues with voltage drop personally but I only run radio and lights...no ac...better gas mileage and revved way faster...I feel we need some dyno differences to get some real info and settle this!!!

[Sailor]

It would be interesting to know how much mechanical energy the stock clutch fan actually draws from the engines performance as well as overall efficiency (cooling) as compared to an electric fan

[5280VertDET]

It would be interesting to know how much mechanical energy the stock clutch fan actually draws from the engines performance as well as overall efficiency (cooling) as compared to an electric fan

ZXdLgaFXZzs

Obviously a V8 is different, but the "science" is there.

[Sailor]

Obviously a V8 is different, but the "science" is there.

SCIENCE! Some really good points in that video, but I feel as if it is missing some key items for this thread specifically. Covering the mechanical draw of an alternator running an electric driven fan in comparison would have really completed it. Also testing how effective each setup was a keeping the engine at an optimal temperature.

Some interesting points lie there though. The advantages to having a clutch fan to steal less power as compared to other solid-mounted/aftermarket ones. Especially the fan shroud segment, which was already talked about in this forum to be important- stealing an insignificant amount of power, but from my understanding was doing a poor job pushing air through the radiator a.k.a less efficient cooling the engine