Official: GM shrinking to 4 brands, Pontiac to four models

[muddafakka]

Official: GM shrinking to four brands; Pontiac to four models - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/12/official-gm-shrinking-to-four-brands-pontiac-to-four-models/#comments)

What do you guys think?

In an interview Sunday with Automotive News (http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090111/ANA06/901119929/1197) (sub. req'd), Troy Clarke, GM's North American president, said that General Motors will be able to make good on its promise to Congress (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/02/gm-asks-congress-to-kickstart-its-heart-with-ambitious-plan/) to drastically cut costs. Clarke said that GM will now focus its "product and marketing resources" on Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC. That would leave Pontiac, Saturn, Saab (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/09/gm-sees-no-buyers-for-saab/) and HUMMER in automotive limbo. As part of that same plan presented to lawmakers, GM said it would sell or close Saturn. And since no one has yet stepped forward with cash, the future is not at all certain for the unique brand despite what GM's marketing VP Mark LaNeve says (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/24/gms-laneve-we-are-completely-behind-saturn/).

In a separate interview, Bob Lutz told AN that Pontiac will also have to get by with only four models: the G8, G5, Vibe and Solstice. Or five models if you count the Solstice coupe separately as Lutz does. Shrinking the brand would complete yet another promise GM made to Congress to make Pontiac a niche brand.

[Gnnr]

So what happens to Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and HUMMER? They should keep Pontiac and axe GMC. Saab and HUMMER should be sold. HUMMER was actually a cool brand before GM suckafied it. I remember seeing the militarily Humvee as a kid and staring in awe. Then GM got a hold of it and made it a rap video whore and the target of ecotreehugger's. Ugh.

[Andrew @ 240sxMotoring]

They keep GMC because it's sells at huge premiums compared to the chevy equivalents. Translations: A GM brand that actually makes good money.

[HalveBlue]

About damn time.

Actually, I don't think they've gone far enough. Sell off Buick also.

[sub9lulu]

About damn time.

Actually, I don't think they've gone far enough. Sell off Buick also.

making too much money in the asian market

[SexPanda]

Buick is the #1 selling brand in China right now. And with the baby boomer generation nearing retirement every day, all the old people will need something to drive. Enter Buick.

[BustedS13]

GMC and Chevy are all the EXACT SAME THING though, right?

every car company on the fucking planet should stop the rebranding crap. we don't need 30 different versions of the town car.

[muddafakka]

They keep GMC because it's sells at huge premiums compared to the chevy equivalents. Translations: A GM brand that actually makes good money.

I think that if they're gonna keep GMC they should give them all the truck/suv stuff and leave Chevy with an all-car lineup.

Chevy-mainline cars

GMC-trucks and SUVs

Cadillac-luxury brand

Buick-I know that they're profitable in Asia, especially China but why keep them here in America? Yeah old people buy them but what about Cadillac? I don't even see Buicks on the road anymore, except for a few of those stupid looking SUVs or whatever they are.

Pontiac-?????????? If anything, they could have been turned into a performance brand.

Are they ever going to make Corvette a brand of its own? That's what I want to know.

[HyperTek]

remembers the 90s when you had the dodge caravan and the chrysler town & country... same freaking van!!!

[BustedS13]

remembers the 90s when you had the dodge caravan and the chrysler town & country... same freaking van!!!

plymouth voyager.

[ThatGuy]

GMC only sells Trucks, and most of those are "Commercial Grade". They make their money with GMC through company vehicles.

You want to make it easier?

GMC should be the sole brand for trucks.
Chevrolet should be all cars, no trucks.

Saturn hasn't been doing as well since Toyota/Scion started filling in their "cute" small economy car niche. Bye Bye.

Pontiac is just down sizing, they should be ok.

Saab? Yeah, they're done.

Hummer? H1 variants are the only cool, useful thing they have ever built. Goodbye.

[Phlip]

remembers the 90s when you had the dodge caravan and the chrysler town & country... same freaking van!!!

Still wasn't as bad as the "Cloud Cars," the Dodge Stratus, Chrysler Cirrus and Plymouth Breeze, lmao.

[SimpleS14]

GMC is a cashcow for GM...they are never going to axe it. What came as a shock to me is that they are going to axe the G6 and Saturn.

If I remember correctly, the G6 was the better selling...but then again...they did say the Vibe and G5 were going to be phased out leaving the Solstice and G8 (and that's a nice fit).

The Saturn Sky looks so nice compared to the Solstice...infact...it should have been the Solstice.

[HyperTek]

wasnt there the dodge neon, chrysler neon, and plymoth neon?? lmao

[Phlip]

wasnt there the dodge neon, chrysler neon, and plymoth neon?? lmao

Just Dodge and Plymouth in the states, Chrysler in other countries.

[kingkilburn]

There has got to be a European company willing to buy Saab.

If they turned Hummer into a coach built brand I think it would survive. I would still axe the H3 from its catalog, but coach built H1\2 would be cool.

Corvette is already managed as its own division.

[Flicktitty]

So what happens to Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and HUMMER? They should keep Pontiac and axe GMC. Saab and HUMMER should be sold. HUMMER was actually a cool brand before GM suckafied it. I remember seeing the militarily Humvee as a kid and staring in awe. Then GM got a hold of it and made it a rap video whore and the target of ecotreehugger's. Ugh.


i agree with the Hummer statement, i find it hard to believe there gonna scrap Saturn when it just now started to be nice.

Seriously GET RID OF GMC it's the same shit as the Chevy trucks.

[98koukile]

It's already been stated like 4 times in this thread why they've kept GMC, because its keeping their heads above water! I do think it would be foolish to get rid of Saturn right now though, it might be advantageous to just sell them at chevy dealerships, kind of like Scion/Toyota and even sell them exclusively at your best selling dealers in a given region. downsize the overhead, sell less cars but make more profit, it's working for VW.
Sell Hummer, people kill for companies with government contracts, and they can work out a deal with cummins and bam, no need for GM intervention.

If you wanna sell Buick in China go right ahead, but in the US make the lacrosse or w/e a base model caddy and get rid of Buick, sorry Tiger Woods

[jskateborders]

Yea I havent seen a buick made after like 95 in a long time... but my friend from china was telling me about how buick is really pop there. Aside from the occasional car add, I would have thought buick already stopped making cars already.

[Antihero983]

GMC only sells Trucks, and most of those are "Commercial Grade". They make their money with GMC through company vehicles.

You want to make it easier?

GMC should be the sole brand for trucks.
Chevrolet should be all cars, no trucks.

Saturn hasn't been doing as well since Toyota/Scion started filling in their "cute" small economy car niche. Bye Bye.

Pontiac is just down sizing, they should be ok.

Saab? Yeah, they're done.

Hummer? H1 variants are the only cool, useful thing they have ever built. Goodbye.

actually barry, Chevy makes alot of cash off of commercial accounts too. so therefore closing gmc would be prudent, as chevy could blatantly carry on the torch.

[exitspeed]

They keep GMC because it's sells at huge premiums compared to the chevy equivalents. Translations: A GM brand that actually makes good money.

GMC vs Chevy equivalents do sell for more but do not sell MORE. The only reason GMC does well for GM is it's Commercial grade trucks which I think Barry mentioned. The Silverado is still the second best selling vehicle in the country and the Sierra equivalent isn't even close.

What GM is doing is just fine. Long overdue IMO.

Here's the run down the way I see it going into the future.

Chevy should be all cars and CUV's.
-Impala: (don't care at this point if it goes RWD because it's still like #5 best selling car in the country. It ain't broke (even though it's dated) so don't fix it.
-Cruze: The Cobalt replacement is 100% better the the Cobalt and the Cobalt is the best small car that GM has ever made. AKA it's going to be a DAMN fine seller
-Volt: Comes out in 2010. I'll bet money on it's success. GM doesn't have a choice but to back it 150% unlike it did witht he EV back in the day.
-HHR: Redesigned in say 3 years based off of the Cruze (just like it's currently based off the Cobalt). Still going to be a VERY good seller and will be that much better of a car.
-Equinox: Just debuted. I predict it'll do much better then the previous gen. Styling wise it's got it right.
-Traverse: This is the best selling, best equipped, and best looking of the Lambda Quadruplets and will continue to do well as GM's larger CUV.

GMC
-Tahoe and Suburban and Silverado: ALL become GMC models. Tahoe and Suburban will be made in LOW volume to match the LOW demand. Only people buying them in the future are going to be the guys hauling boats. Soccer moms need not apply any longer.
-GMC Acadia: GONE! Redundant and will only water down the new more Hardcore GMC image.

Saturn
- As much as I don't want to see it go because it has actually one of the best line-ups of cars out there, it's time. Then next gen Aura will become...

Buick
- ...the next gen Lacrosse. Saturn was supposed to get it, but there out and Buick will be the new golden child. Marketed at younger buyers the brand could actually fare well.
-Lacrosse: Next Gen Lacrosse should be based on the CTS, but I don't see that happening. In actuality it'll be based off the same next gen platform the Impala will be at some point. STYLING WILL MATCH THAT OF THE SUCCESSFUL CHINESE DESIGNS!
-Enclave: Sticks around. But that is it for the Lambda vehicles.

Saab will be gone. Sold. IF they can find a buyer.

Hummer will get bought up by an Indian company or MAYBE even AM General. AM Genreal is who GM bought the brand from in the first place and rumor is they are an interested party.

Pontiac
-G8 will still continue to be a success.
-Solstice WILL be redesigned.
-Rest of the line-up will go out the door until GM is better position to add to the line-up.

Cadillac
-CTS will still continue to be a storming success. Look for better more fuel effecient engines to be offered in the near future. It will also expand into a full line of cars like the C Class and 3 Series. A hatchy looking wagon and the coupe will be out by late this year.
-STS/Deville both will DIE and be replaced by a car either based off of the next gen Impala or if things can go well a New RWD platform that GM has been on again off again about making. I hace no clue at this point but can say that the STS and Deville will be replaced ASAGMcan.
-Future SMALL Sedan/Coupe will be out by 2010 by my prediction. The CTS doesn't actually compete directly with the 3 Series and GM really wants to. They have a platform called the Alpha Platform that they will be using. It'll feature a the Ecoboost Turbo 4 and also a DI V6 both with competitive power output and fuel economy to compete with the 3 Series.
-Volt Caddy will come out in 2011 or so and again will be a huge success as people start to flock to smarter cars WITH luxury.
-SRX will take the Escalade's place.
-Escalade will HAVE to go by by even if it does mean so much to the brand. Numbers are way down and there's no reason to keep the truck at this point.
That pretty much sums it up IMO. I'd do one for Chrylser but it would consist of me saying to merely axe every car they have or go out of business.

Ford on the other hand is looking like it's going to be in really good shape in another year.

[silviaguy240]

#1 Thing saturn needs to do is lower their prices. The Astra and Vue are both too expensive they could cut the Outlook since theres also the Traverse/Acadia/Enclave and the Skys are really an uncomforatble car with decent performance and a much too high price. The Aura is the best car they have and we really havent been selling too many of anything lately but Auras are definately at the bottom except for the Sky. Hell i think the last Sky we sold was back over the summer.

But one thing that I realized the other day Saturn has NO marketing. I have NEVER seen a GM produced Saturn commercial let alone only one dealership commercial thats not even that close to me on tv.

But the costs of the cars just keep going up compared to the last generation models and those people who bought saturns 4-5 years ago that are now coming in have to pay an immense amount more than what they did.

Ions (03-07) - base model coupe with crank windows, non power locks, 5spd, hubcaps ect. were around 11,000-12,000 for one.
Astra - Base model coupe, power windows, locks,5 spd, only available on alloys is about 16,500.


Vue (03-07) - AWD, fully loaded, leather, pw, pl, heated seats, step rails, roof rails, sunroof, xm.... was about 16,500-18,500
Vue (08+) - same stuff, sitting just under 29,000 add nav and you're over 30,000

non turbo skys are 28,000-30,000 and turbo models are 30,000-33,500

and the build quality and performance definately do not back up those price tags.

outlooks can be decent deals. you can get a base AWD for under 30k but for your fully loaded with everything pearl paint, nav, leather, sunroof, roofrails, step rails...ect. you're reaching the 45,000 mark.

they are failing as a brand because they dont market at all and any of the marketing they are doing they arent really reaching the newer younger generation or those new family's that are being formed.

[fkaB18C5MK1]

:keke:

http://images.europeancarweb.com/features/epcp_0706_02z+2006_saab_9-3_aero_x4r+rear_view.jpg

[VROOOM]

i like Saab's

Turbo X
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k79/nismothecat/saab2.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k79/nismothecat/saab1.jpg

[exitspeed]

But one thing that I realized the other day Saturn has NO marketing. I have NEVER seen a GM produced Saturn commercial let alone only one dealership commercial thats not even that close to me on tv.

they are failing as a brand because they dont market at all and any of the marketing they are doing they arent really reaching the newer younger generation or those new family's that are being formed.[/QUOTE]

That's odd. I see commercials all the time. Mostly where this guy goes into a dealership, takes a look around, and then walks back outside to make sure he's in a Saturn dealer. Then the salesperson says, "Yea we're getting that a lot".

They either don't sell many Saturns in your region and don't care to advertise OR they do well enough in your region that they don't feel the need to. Either way you're right GM needs to do a better job marketing, period.

[silviaguy240]

ok see, i totatlly forgot about that commercial, that is the only one ive seen. it really doesnt tell you anything other than that they have new cars and it shows you waht they look like. no model names, info, mpg, seating, saftey, specs. nothing.

[VROOOM]

But one thing that I realized the other day Saturn has NO marketing. I have NEVER seen a GM produced Saturn commercial let alone only one dealership commercial thats not even that close to me on tv.

they are failing as a brand because they dont market at all and any of the marketing they are doing they arent really reaching the newer younger generation or those new family's that are being formed.



they should put the Cobalt SS drivetrain and suspension in the Astra and sell it for about 24k. then i would be all over saturns. besides that the Sky Redline is awesome.

[SimpleS14]

Here's the run down the way I see it going into the future.

Mel - You have a good post , but I can't see Silverado , Suburban and Tahoe going away from Chevy's lineup. Those nameplates mated to that bow-tie symbol carry A LOT of heritage and loyal fan base over the span of decades (the gov't loves those Tahoes :keke:). I can see GMC being phased out to focus on just the commercial side and no more consumer products.

Ford is definitely in the right direction...and its just a surprise for me to say this. I really hope they seal the deal for a bright future and finally axe or revamp Mecury.

[sub9lulu]

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/2005-Saab-9-2X-05903081990001.jpg

best saab

[JoeC1982]

i hope the sub CTS sedan gets the 3.0 DI V6 and the 2.8 turbo v6 from the SRX.

[Nismo ZJ]

My friend works as a tech at a Saturn dealership, and they are slated to close in about 2 months. We are both in a GM ASEP program at school and had the option to find a job at either a GM Dealership or an AC Delco shop. I'm kinda glad I got a job at an AC Delco shop instead of a dealership because I work on all kinds of cars, not just GM.

[fromxtor]

http://www.trollhattansaab.net/wp-content/ViggenMay.jpg

best saab

There fixed it for you, saab viggen > turbo X

[Future240]

I can definitely see some euro company picking up saab, it looks kinda european already

[SimpleS14]

SAAB performs better in Europe, but given economic times...it's will be hard to find someone willing to buy them up.

[JoeC1982]

Saab + Volvo = Problem Solvo?

[kingkilburn]

I can definitely see some euro company picking up saab, it looks kinda european already

Saab is European.
Saab Automobile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_Automobile)

[exitspeed]

I can definitely see some euro company picking up saab, it looks kinda european already

That made me chuckle. Saab is Swedish. :doh:

[kingkilburn]

My question is this - Do the planes support the cars or vise versa?

[exitspeed]

My question is this - Do the planes support the cars or vise versa?

I'll answer this tomorrow.

[silviaguy240]

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/2005-Saab-9-2X-05903081990001.jpg

best saab

its because its a wrx

[OptionZero]

As long as they can also cut real costs by eliminating unnecessary labor without the union butting in.

[SexPanda]

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/2005-Saab-9-2X-05903081990001.jpg

best saab
Thats the Saabaru.

I know a guy who has a saabaru and its fast as hell. Looks really good too. I mean, look at it. I think its sweet.

[skylinegtr20]

What I want to know is... WHY SO MANY DIFFERENT COMPANY'S IN ONE?

Seems like American companys buy into make different companys like saab, jaguar, etc.. and forgot the main job... building a good quality car.

Why is Toyota and Honda successful? They build quality cars that use interchangeable engines & parts. While been fuel efficiency and practical.

With 6-7 different company's and different dealerships for many models customers can get confused trying to figure out the differences and what the best model is to buy.

Toyota is easy... If your looking for a small sedan get the Corolla, if your looking for a full size sedan get the Camry, if your looking for a truck... well you only have 2 options (unlike GM) the Tundra for fullsize & the Taco for smaller. Of course I can go on!


Anyway I think GM should completely start over getting rid of either GMC or Chevy and making it 1 company for trucks/vans. Get rid of either Chevy cars, Saturn, or Pontiac. And lastly get rid of Buick in N.America as no one buys it, Caddy is much more appealing. Sell Hummer & Saab off and make the Corvette GM's only sports car and its own brand.

[deolio]

^ agree 100%

consoledate into 2-3 brands and be done with it. gmc - trucks, cadilac - lux cars, chevy - shit cars

[kingkilburn]

What will they do with companies like Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden?

[trsilvias13]

They should get rid of more brands or consolidate them. Only reason is because there will be a CEO, VP, COO of this and that and they will all get bonuses. Which mean just more money that will be paid out to executives.

[kingkilburn]

I think it would be nice to see Holden run in America but that is a whole other pipe dream.

It would seem that most of GM's brands could work on their own. Just restructure them the same as Hummer and let them buy themselves out(similar to Harley-Davidson). Those that can't float on their own didn't need to be here in the first place.

Maybe it would work better if GM was setup like a heavy industrial manufacturer/supplier and the divisions were taking the different supplied parts to make what they want based on their brand. Instead of an over arcing design philosophy it would just be the basics that would carry over from brand to brand. Things like the platform its built on, or the engine and trans.

It's like styling wise the 350Z and G35 coupe share little besides proportions. The opposite would be the Armada and QX56. You are getting almost the same thing, just rebadged. The 300c and its derivatives are a similar situation.

[atom]

Chevy shouldn't get rid of it's trucks because it basically lets GM double dip the market. It seems to be working seeing as the trucks are the only product line GM shouldn't be worried about.

I like Saab but they are a huge dog in the American market. I wanted a 9-5 aero as a daily for the longest time. Sell it.

Saturn too. Their cars got better when they simply started re working opels but still nobody was buying them. Sell it.

[exitspeed]

God sooo much misinformation.

The reason GM has so many brands goes waaaaay back before there was ANY thought of GM going bankrupt. It goes back to when GM was the largest company in the WORLD. Wrap your head around that for a sec.

Early and midway through it's history all those brands did the Auto Industry and GM just fine.

The problem lies now because that strategy no longer works. You can't fault them for having the brands in the first place, but what you can fault them for is not planning ahead enough.

People think that axing brands is so easy. It's not. Do you know how much money it cost GM to get rid of Oldsmobile? Billions. Now you have to imagine them trying to do that with Hummer, Saab, Saturn, Buick, Pontiac...There isn't a company in the worlds history that would be able to go through with something like that.

It's going to take time for the restructuring.

Hell it's going to take time to convince the narrow minded public that Ford and GM BUILD CARS TODAY. News Flash...THEY DO.

I used to be anti-domestic and pro-Japanese just like the rest of you. Until they started making good cars a few years ago.

Problem is it was a little too late financially. Again it takes time to change over your entire portfolio of cars. GM already has released more then a handful of successful cars over the last few years and their cars getting better and better. But a lot of the public refuses to admit it.


My question is this - Do the planes support the cars or vise versa?

To answer this, the cars support the planes. There's a couple elements that mas way.

Number one and most obvious is financially. They can't afford to keep building vehicles that don't sell. Just plain can't afford it. Like I said they have vehicles that sell well. They perform well, they look good, they are built well, and are priced right. BUT, they have waaaaaay too many crappy cars still. Those WILL go bye bye real fuckin quick too.

Number two, is the new CAFE regulations going into effect in 2010. With all this bankruptcy talk this has been put on the back burner by the media, but it's the real reason why they need to have a better fleet of vehicles. If they can make it through the financial whoas they still have to meet these new regulations like it or not.


One thing we have to think about is...Do you think they don't WANT to make this all work? Of course not.

I predict that GM makes it out of this by 2010 a stronger better company than it's been maybe in it's 100 years in existence. Sure it'll be a shadow of it's former self, but all for the better.

[SimpleS14]

What will they do with companies like Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden?

Most likely keep them as they are seperate operations that are performing decently in their respected regions.

[skylinegtr20]

Its as simple as this question...

What would you rather buy if your decision was solely based on quality and reliability? Not your favorite by looks.

A Toyota Corolla/ Honda Civic

OR

A Chevy Cobalt/Ford Focus


That is why Chevy/Ford/Chrysler are going down. They have to create cars people trust and can rely on for 10+ years. I could never see myself in an American car for just that reason alone among other things.