S13 vs S14 - aerodynamics and handling

[/etc/shadow]

How do the S13 and S14 compare in terms of aerodynamics and handling? I've *heard* that the S13 has a better drag coefficient, but I've never seen the numbers. I suspect the S13 handles better due to the base S14 not having a rear sway bar.

Thoughts?

[DSC]

"I suspect the S13 handles better due to the base S14 not having a rear sway bar."
But the SE does, so that doesn't really solve anything.

My ass-0-meter says s13's handle better than s14's stock vs stock.

As far as aerodynamics, s13FB wins.

[transient]

W00T! Hail to the fastback :D

[/etc/shadow]

Hell yes, I'm a fastback driver. I think the S14's look nice and all that, but I love the retro feel of the early nineties Nissan sports car, specifically my S13 Fastback.

[AmherstSR20DET]

Haven't seen numbers but having driven both an S13 FB (my 91 SE) and an S14 (think it was a 95 or 96 SE), the FB had a better feel. I also agree with transient about the retro looks of the FB. I personally like the FB just a little better than the S15 (flame away if you must, its my personal opinion).

[tnord]

in theory, the S13 should handle better due to the lighter weight. but on the other hand, it is significantly older, and most likely has many worn out bushings and other suspension components. in actualy testing today, the S14 might out-handle the S13.

[drift freaq]

I do not know about the S14 but here is the raw data on the S13 Fastback
drag coefficent .31
center of gravity .29
skidpad rating .89 G's on stock SE suspension
which basically means with upgraded suspension you can pull a G or over in the corners.
IMHO S14's feel and drive like larger cars. Though they really are not that much larger or heavier.
They do have a more refined ride. None the less I would still drive a S13 before I ever drove and S14 . Yes if they had a S15 here in the states I would want one.
On that note though I will stick with the S13.

[Jeff240sx]

IIRC, the coefficient of drag on a S14 SE model is .31 also. The base model is a little higher (.32 or .33) due to the front fascia.
Also, depending on who you believe, the s14 se has the same skidpad ratings. I have no clue on the CG though.
-Jeff

[DarkRaptor42]

s13 I would say handles a little better to start off with, however this is with parts in good condition. I think with aftermarket setups the s13 wins hands down though.

[p_action]

hrm...interesting...i feel the same way when driving friends S14 then going to drive my S13...

S13 feels more nimble...almost like it has a shorter wheelbase. Likes to pivot more accurately...actually much more controllable. Kinda odd...but stock for stock the S13 feels more stable even at high speed sweeping turns...ack who knows!

but yeah...S14 rides more like a touring car...i think the spring rate is not much higher on the S14 vs S13 stock... and the car weighs more...hence the softer ride..

But dont get me wrong...S14 can handle excellent when properly set up!

-- Peter

[SimpleS14]

S13 handles better than the S14, but if the S15 was over here I would take it over any of the two.


<-- wishes he had a S15 Aero SpecR

[DarkRaptor42]

Originally posted by GT specR
S13 handles better than the S14, but if the S15 was over here I would take it over any of the two.


<-- wishes he had a S15 Aero SpecR

word brother, word.

[BLiTz]

tnord,
Thats what it really comes down to in the end...doesn't matter how much you pollish it up, its still a 11 year old car...goes hand and hand with that old saying..."no matter how much you polish a turd, its still a turd" not comparing a 240 with a turd, but just making a statement. Thats the only reason i truely dislike my car, is that any way you look at it its still a 92, dangit.

[transient]

Whoa, you're talking like you can't breathe life into an older car. Say what you will, but when i'm done with my 1990 fastback, it's going to be just like new. I'm stripping it down this spring to swap the engine, replace any bushings that need to be replaced, replace bad body panels, suspension components, you name it. Just because it's old doesn't mean it has to be run down

[p_action]

Originally posted by BLiTz
tnord,
Thats what it really comes down to in the end...doesn't matter how much you pollish it up, its still a 11 year old car...goes hand and hand with that old saying..."no matter how much you polish a turd, its still a turd" not comparing a 240 with a turd, but just making a statement. Thats the only reason i truely dislike my car, is that any way you look at it its still a 92, dangit.

it's also safe to say the Nissan cars built during this time period were built with higher quality standards...usually making them last longer...same with Toyota too...

[S13_RB20?!?]

Originally posted by tnord
in theory, the S13 should handle better due to the lighter weight. but on the other hand, it is significantly older, and most likely has many worn out bushings and other suspension components. in actualy testing today, the S14 might out-handle the S13. if your comparing the USDM's then your right but a 98' S13 vs. a 98' S14 JDM... i don't think so...
when it comes to style the S13 hands down. we have the taillight's and the sleek "hey im a sports car look" the s14 looks like a grocery car. no offense to any s14 owners but thats what i think.

[/etc/shadow]

Originally posted by p_action
it's also safe to say the Nissan cars built during this time period were built with higher quality standards

Thank god for that.

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?threadid=23153

[KyoLo]

My friend Mike crashed 80MPH and totalled his 98 S14 sr20det into Azusa wall "directly".......he walked out unharmed...so i believe all Silvia chassis are made tough and they are all safe from crash test. And i also believe all car companies improve cars over years and years.....so...
S14 zenki prob looks like a grocery car, but kouki S14 definitely not... hahaha ..... aggressive shark eyes do not look like MAZDA 626 nor old camry. (no offense at all, we're all brothers). And about handling, i think they should be all ABOUT the same, not much differences, and they have purposes on different changes on every new model to make cars better. So maybe newer model is improving on speed, but sacrifice a little bitty handling .....u can see the example of s13, s14, and s15 from 200hp to 220hp then to 250hp~!! right?

[DuffMan]

I think the S14's dampening and spring rates are a little less than the the S13's stock for stock. However the S14's stiffer chassis gives it more overall potential.

[Stee Flo]

I used to have an s14 and it feels similar in terms of handling to my s13. The s13 does feel a bit more nimble, but not significantly. They both handle well and have a similar feel.

[MikeFD3S]

s13's handling feels a lot tighter than s14's. S14's suspenion is a lot softer for better ride comfort.

LOL @ crashing at Azusa...another one bites the dust. Was it his first time there? GMR should have a sign -- "Initial D tryouts! Darwinian SPL!"

[mrdirty]

Originally posted by BLiTz
...no matter how much you polish a turd, its still a turd....

How long have you been polishing your $hit? No more turd polishing ok? That's just wrong.



BTW: Tell that to a guy driving a mint 240z...

[bluezenkis14]

I guess I'm the only one that thinks s14's handle better I own an s14 se and drive it everyday I drove my friends coupe and a friends vert and to me they feel bigger and they feel more like boats IMHO

[Silverbullet]

oh lawwwdy lawd.

[raz0rbladez909]

LOL This is one of the oldest thread bumps I've seen, hell the thread was around before I ever registered. :bash:

[brizanden]

actually the s14 has a slightly longer wheelbase which makes it more predictable when drifting and driving hard, ie less snappy (try drifting a miata bitch pops out way fast and hard). Also the rear suspension of s13 is more squat making it good for drift but as far as maintaing high exit speeds of turns (no drifting) the s14 has the edge as it can maintain proper traction if u want it to. I read an article about this years ago. ill try to find it.

[bluezenkis14]

Also it might just be my illusions as I don't drive a car with flip up headlights all the time

[Silverbullet]

Also the rear suspension of s13 is more squat making it good for drift but as far as maintaing high exit speeds of turns (no drifting) the s14 has the edge as it can maintain proper traction if u want it to..

less squat.

[fliprayzin240sx]

A good rule of thumb...you upgrade suspension on an S13 to make it handle like an S14. You upgrade an S14 to handle like an S15. Its just the natural progression of things, S14s handle better and smoother than an S13, grip or drift. Some people like the twitchy feedback of the S13s, some prefer the smoother feel of S14s.

But holy shit, this thread is almost as old as the forum itself...

[Imarvin240]

i have owned both an S13 coupe and S14 and have had all the same suspension mods on both, power plants, aero, wheels/tires, ect. i personally think they handled the same. i agree with the above that the S13 is a bit more twitchy and the S14 has a bit of a smoother feel to it. just my own opinion hah

[simmode1]

Never really compared my S13 against my S14 in terms of handling, since my hatch has way more mods. All I know is, after having to replace my s14's fuel tank for the 2nd time in a year, I'm getting rid of it. The S14 is a little more annoying to work on than the S13, IMO. S13's are now my preferred chassis, at this point.

[Luvs2slide]

. You upgrade an S15 to handle like an S14.

Fixed.

msglength

[cdlong]

less squat.

I think you mean more anti-squat (comparing the s13 to s14). The s14 has a slightly better suspension layout and stiffer chassis so it should handle better. Having owned both, I prefered the s13 because it felt more lively and it felt like I was the center of rotation of the car. That seems to be lost on the s14 (though it could be the suspension tuning) but I'd bet the s14 is actually faster.

[drift freaq]

I think you mean more anti-squat (comparing the s13 to s14). The s14 has a slightly better suspension layout and stiffer chassis so it should handle better. Having owned both, I prefered the s13 because it felt more lively and it felt like I was the center of rotation of the car. That seems to be lost on the s14 (though it could be the suspension tuning) but I'd bet the s14 is actually faster.

This is pretty much the truth. The thing is though the s14 has what some people consider to be slightly better suspension geometry its not perfect either.

The real deal with these cars is a preferential thing. Some people think putting a S14 rear subframe in the S13 improves it. Others say putting the s14 subframe in over compensates.

Truth be told taking both cars with suspension modifications the S14 indeed drives great but imparts a different feeling to the driver. It does not scream at you to throw it around and go for it. It says ya I can do that if you want.
Whereas the s13 begs you to drive it hard.

While all the S14 owners and lovers will tell you its superior in all way shapes and forms. Truth be told it was the 180sx that was manufactured longer and sold more in Japan. There is something to be said about that.

Oh and in fact the S15 actually is closer to the s13 in driver feel than a S14.

People forget that the s14 was specifically softened (even though the chassis is stiffer) in certain aspects for the average consumer i.e. secretary, because of complaints that the s13 was too harsh.
The S13 embodies the true feel of the sports car it is trying to show.

Oh and yes the 180sx was the most popular sports car ever sold in Japan. They do consider it a sports car over there.

[ManoNegra]

agreed Dave
I like both and daily an S14
but will readily admit that S13s are a better driver's car
hatches that is, wouldn't touch a coupe with a stick

[thrax]

That number early in the thread for s13 co-efficient of drag seems right and is also important to note was pretty good for its era.
I would only say subjectively that an s13 felt microscopically better handling than s14. But as one poster mentioned, the current condition of the cars suspension will be more of a factor than what it came with.

Just a side note, here in Canada when s14 came out they marketed the car as more of an affordable luxury coupe rather than the affordable sports car which makes me wonder if they softening the suspension slightly.

[heiyuu]

I have a 180sx!!!

Everyone that rides or drives it always says the same thing "YOU'RE CAR IS FAST!"

And my response is always "Nope, it *FEELS* fast"

[rcdad123]

i have a 1989 hatch for a daily driver and i love my car. it`s almost stock except for stock replacement Tokico springs and struts, stickier 17 inch Falken rt615 tires and a homemade exhaust. i worked on a few s14s with the same or more mods than my s13 and in my opinion, the s13 for a race car(if i do build one), and s14 for a daily driver.(i would love to have a 97-98 s14 for my DD). the s14 interior IMO feels like your driving a current car. everything inside feels like a new car. as for actually driving the car, i feel the s13 responds way quicker than an s14. i guess they built the s14 to accommodate a wider range of customers(ie, older people, moms, secretaries, lol.) s14, IMO, does not respond to steering inputs as fast as an s13.

[Hoffman5982]

Haven't heard that one before...

[cdlong]

They do consider it a sports car over there.

I wouldn't doubt it, it had 30% more power than our version did...and they didn't have Corvettes.

[Perfect Balance]

I'm not sure what the reasoning behind it is, but I've noticed nobody really makes a successful (on a professional level) S13 time attack car, they always go for the S14s. I think it might have something to do with the rear suspension geometry, which iirc, was slightly improved.

Now, I would say the S13 is more of a driver's car, it's definitely more "raw" feeling in a sense, but as far as outright speed potential, I'd probably say S14.

I remember going to a track day about a year ago and there was an S13 running on 285 slicks and a turbo ka24, big carbon wing on the back, driving the piss out the car, you could see the car slightly sliding through the corners, and right behind it was a spec Miata that the S13 couldn't shake.

To give you an idea of how that works, you need to keep in mind that a Spec Miata is essentially a stock Miata that weighs more and has slicks. A mildy tuned Miata with a few bolts ons, a roll bar, slicks and a properly dialed in suspension is faster than a Spec Miata.

On the other hand, there's S14s like the one Scorch puts out that do really well, and you just don't see that as often with S13s.

[chinabean]

subscribed son'!

[fliprayzin240sx]

Fixed.

msglength

I think the S15 was designed with better handling in mind...you should upgrade your damn rear subframe to an S15 one so itll be less twitchy. Help keep you from making out with the wall again...:D