Special Turbine Housing T25-EWG-44, 44mm WG on T2x

[S14DB]

Now you can run a 44mm external gate without having to get a special manifold on the T2x frame turbo's.

Special Turbine Housing T25-EWG-44: atpturbo.com (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-HSG-043&Category_Code=HSG)

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Turbochargers/ATP-HSG-043_450-1.jpg
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Turbochargers/ATP-HSG-043_450-2.jpg

My question is would this hit the strut tower / wheel tub?

[slider2828]

WHOLLY SHIET!!!!! GEEZUS.... how much and will it rub? Maybe I will swing by ATP on saturday. They are down the street from me and as if I can take a look at it and get measurements....

[importdude]

from the pics wouldnt it hit the block instead?

[slider2828]

It faces out the other way...down and away from the block when you put it on.... Bottom mount of course...

BUT in the meantime, can someone measure like a Tial 44mm?

[Sleepy240]

its tough to visualize but i think it would actually be closer to the strut tower side, and there's definitely some room to play with over that side
EDIT: My setup...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/sileighty/DSCN1735.jpg

I ran out and did a quick measurement in the freezing cold just for the hell of it and the tial would be VERY close to the strut tower unless I'm visualizing it all wrong

[Om1kron]

looks cool but the placement is reeeeeeal iffy

[s15specR]

great....i'm very interested.......

[slider2828]

Yah its REAL iffy... Cause it might even hit the tower/rails.... but Ima get measurements and pictures.... to see if it will fit... like I said if someone can measure a wastegate.... that would be best...

[slider2828]

wait... don't you have to fit a dump pipe off the wastegate too?

[joefresh]

couldnt a short v-band runner be made for the wastegate? like so you could space and angle it differently? assuming it would hit, i think my idea would be an easy solution.

[s15specR]

question: if the 44mm WG wont fit is there any performance drawbacks to remote mounting the 44mm, basically running a tube from the vband on the housing to the wg thats mounted down the line or a convenient location or something ?

[s15specR]

couldnt a short v-band runner be made for the wastegate? like so you could space and angle it differently? assuming it would hit, i think my idea would be an easy solution.


i'm considering using this as a replacement to the gt2871r internally wastgated, by keeping my tomei manifold setup with a gt3071/76 externally wastegated using this housing.

[slider2828]

NVM I got the specs off tial....

http://www.tialmedia.com/documents/w3_tial_44_dim.pdf

So it looks like 5" tall with the added flange.... So see if we have 5 1/4" inches from the turbo turbine side...

[Sleepy240]

question: if the 44mm WG wont fit is there any performance drawbacks to remote mounting the 44mm, basically running a tube from the vband on the housing to the wg thats mounted down the line or a convenient location or something ?

The problem with that would be buying the special turbo housing would be pointless then??

couldnt a short v-band runner be made for the wastegate? like so you could space and angle it differently? assuming it would hit, i think my idea would be an easy solution.

Yes couldn't think of any reason why that wouldn't work

Also when the freezing rain stops I can run out and actually measure the WG

[slider2828]

If you want it remote... I dunno if that will affect performance as it needs to fill up that chamber of extra "piping" before blow-off.... I dunno....

[slider2828]

I think response on this would be freaking phenomenal....

[Sleepy240]

i'm considering using this as a replacement to the gt2871r internally wastgated, by keeping my tomei manifold setup with a gt3071/76 externally wastegated using this housing.

my 2871r is external and i <3 it. I think the turbine housing is SICK if theres enough room

[slider2828]

Yah mine is internal..... Actually probably 5 1/4 total clearance would be good enough....

Sleepy where did you get the manifold? From Aus? Only place I have seen it...

[Sleepy240]

We switched back to the stock manifold and welded it on, it was so much easier that trying to make things fit. We just honed and cleaned out the runners in the stock manifold

[slider2828]

Damn HKS only makes 50 and 60... I wanted the turkey call sound.... hahahah

[S14DB]

question: if the 44mm WG wont fit is there any performance drawbacks to remote mounting the 44mm, basically running a tube from the vband on the housing to the wg thats mounted down the line or a convenient location or something ?

No, you can find places that make 44mm to 44mm 90* adapters. You are bleeding off pressure. As long as it stays 44mm pipe you should be ok.

[Sleepy240]

The problem I see with the whole vband thing is this housing is supposed to make things simpler and all you are doing by adding adapters etc is making things more complicated and expensive. Your probably better off sticking with the regular housing and mounting it elsewhere

[slider2828]

No, you can find places that make 44mm to 44mm 90* adapters. You are bleeding off pressure. As long as it stays 44mm pipe you should be ok.

Something like this might work?

3.00" V-Band Pipe - 45 Deg: atpturbo.com (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-MDP-001&Category_Code=MDP)

[s15specR]

Hmmm I've been talking to steve shadows about the t2 GT30, this would be the best way to go and stay bottom mount. Now I'm between the 71 and the 76,

[s15specR]

The problem I see with the whole vband thing is this housing is supposed to make things simpler and all you are doing by adding adapters etc is making things more complicated and expensive. Your probably better off sticking with the regular housing and mounting it elsewhere


no this approach helps eliminate the boost creeping internal gates on most t2 platforms, however in the end it will be cheaper than going top mount in my case since I keep all my components except the turbo.


I can't recall it right now but toyota did this on one of there famous old school race cars and had great results...

[slider2828]

or a remote pipe like this? 3.00" 90 V-Band Pipe - Short Leg: atpturbo.com (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-MDP-002&Category_Code=MDP)

Doesn't ext. wastegates give more response too?

[s15specR]

44mm wastegate port is about 1.75" in diameter

[slider2828]

yah so maybe atp has something like that hopefully.... or have luke weld up something to point it downwards....

[memphiss13]

i think this might solve the clearance problem. The one on the right is a new wastegate from tial. Its alot shorter. The only thing I'm not sure of is if it uses the same size v-band flange as the v44.

http://www.tialmedia.com/NH/MVS.jpg

Description from Tial:

TiAL will be replacing the F38 wastegate with the new MV-S wastegate. Small was on our mind when we developed this new ultra compact wastegate. It stands only 3.7" in height vs the current F38 which is 4.85" Other features include 3 bottom pressure ports for easy install and a top mount pressure port that can be rotated 6 different ways. No more bolts or gaskets and all configurations are leaded fuel safe. we also altered the way the diaphragm sits so it is virtually impossible to pinch. A late fall release date is scheduled.

[usdm180sx]

This is awesome news. No more boost spike due to a weak ass internal wg setup!

[slider2828]

Yah it looks like just replacing the v38, hopefully this moves to the v44....

[steve shadows]

I think response on this would be freaking phenomenal....

Yes.

.....


especially if you add a oversized throttle body and keep the stock IM

[smelly240]

if theres a fitment prob - just make a 90 deg pipe with v bands on the ends... or - you could even run the 44 mm vband to a 90 bend to a 80bajillion mm gate :P

seriously tho - i know u've all seen the way a lot of people run those pipes to move the gate.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachments/articles-parts-fabrication/69731d1163897023-manifold-mounted-wastegate-adapter-dsc00441.jpg

[OBEEWON]

But, I like my boost creep...=(

Do I have to?

[aNskY]

44mm gate seems overkill for a t2.. being the whole idea is to be cost efficient route to an external gate, they shoulda done it in 38mm.

[slider2828]

Yah, I saw that picture of the DSM forums too! 44 is kewl.... I don't think 38mm holds boost as well as the 44 though...

[sr20boostn20]

even if it does hit the strut tower,

you can still make a tube befor the w/g to direct in a spot that wont hit the strut tower.

no?

[smelly240]

i already said that. i even posted a picture, nutbag...

[aNskY]

Yah, I saw that picture of the DSM forums too! 44 is kewl.... I don't think 38mm holds boost as well as the 44 though...


its a t25 :mepoke:

[smelly240]

lol yeah how much gate you think ur gonna need on that little housing?

[S14DB]

Quality WG and EBC and it shouldn't matter.

[Devil Man]

im sorry but i have to ask this as im not the best educated in turbos yet, but im trying to figure out what the difference is between this and a say stock t25 turbo from a sr? if im not mistaken on a stock t25 they have the waste gate on the turbo already so it can be dumped right into the downpipe. how is this less effiecent then this back housing now that is being sold? is it because you can run a larger waste gate?? also why would it hit the strut tower. cant you just mount the waste gate onto the exhaust manifold somewhere else not right next to the turbo? sorry that i had to ask but i want to fully understand

[slider2828]

search more bro.... external wastegate/ stock is internal wastegate. Externals hold boost better and better response.

Yes you can mount of the top of the exh mani, but not as clean and better response as it more exactly measures pressure (imo).... but whatever...

[steve shadows]

The 44 MM WG is used when the 38MM WG cannot suffice to reduce boost surge on with peaking turbos, like the GT30 and the GT40.

In my case I still use a 38/40 mm Tial and to solve the peaky aspect of the setup with the slight spike i had I just used a Bltz Dual solenoid and no more spike

[smelly240]

I think placement on the manifold has something to do with the wastegates size. I dont run into problems with boost spiking.

[s15specR]

Blitz Dual Solenoid Spec R EBC, best with internally gated turbo's, leaving on auto and let it run.....

So anyone know what kinda clearance this housing has when bottom mounted on a GT30 ?

[SpdElemts]

So this new turbo housing is only available if you opt for a .72 A/R housing, any one have any insight about how that will compare with the common .64 and .86 A/R housings?
Im thinking since the new housing a/r is in the middle and closer to the smaller side .64 a/r housing it should have somewhat as quick spool similar to that of a 64 housing, but with better flow in the upper rpms correct? Please correct me if im wrong.

[slider2828]

I would think so.... My GF's going to get this for me for christmas hahaha! Ain't she awesome...

[Sleepy240]

I think placement on the manifold has something to do with the wastegates size. I dont run into problems with boost spiking.

Correct mine is the manifold simply for because we had no room

[smelly240]

i run a way bigger turbo than the 2871 and a 38 does me just fine... i think the 44 is mostly used because its the "common practice" gate right now.

the 35 once was, then the 38, and now its the 40 and 44.

either way - this housing wont "MAKE POWER" for people - it might let u squeeze more boost out of it - but just puttng this thing on your can isn't going to be like BOING! FITTY HOSE PAWR!

[SoSideways]

^ No, but it'll let more air to the turbine to keep it spinning at higher RPM, so the top end power should be slightly better.

With the bigger gate you can probably set the gain on the boost controller to be pretty high, so the spool up should be pretty sick.

Only thing is, if you're going to too big of a gate you might experience crappy spool , from more surface area for the boost to push against and open the gate prematurely.

At least I think that's what the Supra guys were saying... but they're running like 50psi on 9 million mm turbos, and we're talking about T2x.

[steve shadows]

^ No, but it'll let more air to the turbine to keep it spinning at higher RPM, so the top end power should be slightly better.

With the bigger gate you can probably set the gain on the boost controller to be pretty high, so the spool up should be pretty sick.

Only thing is, if you're going to too big of a gate you might experience crappy spool , from more surface area for the boost to push against and open the gate prematurely.

At least I think that's what the Supra guys were saying... but they're running like 50psi on 9 million mm turbos, and we're talking about T2x.


Wait what?

The only thing that keeps gas in the WG body is the strength of the spring or tweaking/adjustment to the vaccum boost source feeding the back of the diaphram that keeps it closed or open (ie boost controller) Valve size should not effect spool up. It will only aid in smoothing the effect of over pressure or overloading the valve under high load (like spiking or surging of the turbo which is common with very efficient fast spooling turbines like the GT30 and GT40).

None of that made any sense? GAIN setting pre-stages the duty cycle of the Boost Controller so that it will negate spiking - it does not increase spool up- More Duty cycle will actually have the effect of bleeding less vaccum at a certain point (it's like a bell curve) this is because the vavle is closing more and more at faster and faster intervals.

The only thing that makes a turbo spool up "faster" is a Wastegate that is working properly (NOT THE SIZE OF THE WG), the size of the turbine wheel, camshafts and intake manifold as well as differing effects of drivetrain rotating mass.

If you have too big of a gate the only thing that will happen is your car will be louder - ha-ha. Crappy spool has NOTHING to do with the wastegate, unless your Wastegate is a mile away from the runner/collector where it is regulating pressure and you have a small displacement engine that does not output much gas out of the exhaust ports (VE wise).

Just a few FYI's for ya

[burnsauto]

ok, so would this be worth it on say an s15 spec T28?

[steve shadows]

The advantage of this setup is no boost creep, or boost spike due to a weak internal diaphram.

That means your Boost Controller will have a much easier time controlling the turbo - and it means a manual boost controller will actually work - much more solid without spike on external gate. - Plus a larger valve means it's less prone to pre-loading or overloading the diaphram leading to any sort of spike.

If you plan on boosting over 10 psi I would recommend this.

If you are planning on running this with an S15 turbo at the edge of it's efficiency (or surge point) I would defintely think about it - ALTHOUGH - as I said before using a dual solenoid Boost Controller like the Blitz should aleaviate the spiking all on it's own -

Just some things to think about.

I think this would be best used with a surge prone turbo for high outputs where steady boost control is essential to the longevity of the motor -

Like a T28 foot print - A. GT3071R B. GT3076R C. GT2871R .86

[smelly240]

but if they;re looking for a larger turbo like a 3071/6 they should be making the move to t3 in my opinion. T2 flanged 30's do not impress me at all. the 30r with the .63 t3 is much nicer, and trying to squeeze more outta a s15 turbo you should just change to a better turbo to make the power. Its not cheap enough to go putting it on a s15 turbo. 300 for the housing and another 375 for the gate... for 675 bucks you could sell the s15 guy and get a turbo that fits your needs.

if u have a 2871 or a 2876 turbo i can see this making sense more than for the s15.

[sideways_s14]

but with this external wastegate flange, isn't it supposed to give the same flow characteristics as a t3? the main advantage I see with this set-up is that it will allow you to stay with the bottom-mount configuration, with an external wastegate allowing you to have the same response as a t3 turbine housed topmount and no surge. but from reading this thread, for someone who is looking for that same type of response, we'll say with a gt3071, this really isn't going to make much of a difference and a topmount t3 is still the way to go, right?

[smelly240]

yes. or a custom bottom mount t3. Kazama's car was t3 bottom mount with a 2835pro or something similar to a 30r.

[steve shadows]

The T28 Flanged 3071R and 3076 Are actually great turbos, and no this housing will not provide the same volume flow of a T3 housing- which is why I think it's a good idea- slightly faster spooling with the steady boost of an external WG- plus it keeps your CENTER OF GRAVITY low in the chasis- with the turbo mounted lower -

I just tuned a T28 GT3076R car that went 11.2 on 91 pump gas...they are great turbos and are good for someone looking to keep heat away from the brake housings and the center of gravity low.

I am frankly sick of people's love for the 2871R turbo - I think it's a good turbo but Highly overated at this point.

However I would suggest a 2871R with external gate housing - boosting 20 PSI with stock Iintake manifold with 70mm Throttle body and lightened Flywhee for the ultimate response.

[sideways_s14]

yea, and yashio factory makes one as well for their gt3037pro s kit. that's what I, and probably a few others have been waiting for, a bottom mount, t3 flanged manifold, custom 1offs are nice, but they're usually pretty expensive. it still eludes me as to why there aren't a few choices of these on the market rather there's tons of topmounts. some of us would love to be able to keep most of our already installed components, ie. downpipe and possibly intake and just slap on a new turbo. fitment isn't really the issue because even a gt3076 can fit in the bottom mount configuration.

[s15specR]

any more input on this housing ? anyone wanna buy a like new gt2871r 56trim so I can test this ?

[steve shadows]

But, I like my boost creep...=(

Do I have to?

Cars make more HP and Torque everywhere with consistent boost, even if the spike or creep goes much higher than where it started

[slider2828]

Damn it, I can get the housing, but I still have to save for the wastegate. 300 for the housing and 400 for the 44mm tial wastegate.... That is a whole LOT of money we talking here....

[aNskY]

it would be way cheaper to mod your mani for a 38mm... still light years ahead of an internal

[s15specR]

i rather run a 3071/6 instead of the 2871r with this housing in bottom mount mani like the tomei

[jr_ss]

Has anyone tried this yet? I'm nearing the end of my build and I am torn between the 2871r and the 3071r with this housing. I'd like to run the 3071r with this housing if I can keep spool times down to a minimum. I don't want a laggy ass car (meaning 5k spool), but I'd like to make 400+ with a lower boost pressure.

Steve, do you mind recommending something? I'll give my specs to you. I'd prefer to stay bottom mount (sleeper look) and between the 2 turbos I stated above.

S14 Sr20 w/ VCT
Close to 9.2:1 comp engine
Je 8.5:1
Eagle rods
Toda 264* 10.5mm cams I&E
Stock intake and exhaust mani's with port matching and possibly extrude honing.
Obviously fuel system to support this.
All ARP hardware
1.5mm Cosworth H/G
60-65mm T/B

The reason I'm running 9.2:1 is the head has been milled and the block was decked. Im not sure on the exact amount of milling done to the head, but I think it was around .030 (I bought the head like this) and .010 to the block, giving me .040 total taken out between the head and block. I used a 1.5mm HG to get me back closer to the 8.5 of stock.

Either way, let me know what you think. Thanks in advance.

[BiG MiKE86]

I hate to bring back such an old thread but has anyone had any success with this housing in an s13/14? I am considering this setup in the new year and was hoping to see some pics of this installed with some clearance dimensions

Thanks in advanceee

[slider2828]

I want to do it too, but don't have the money to do it... its like an extra 600 bux to do. a V44 + new housing + time invest... I dunno.... it would be nice

[BiG MiKE86]

has anyone on here tried it? I read on another forum that this housing was created for subie owners - loads of speculation for it to fit on an S-Chassis but no proof yet

[BiG MiKE86]

anyone? ....

[S13 curtis]

I bought it and the tial V44 today along with some goodies, its part of my set up that i was keepin a secret, ill give u guys a teaser once it comes in. stay tuned in for results!

[808drft]

yea old thread but s13 curtis did u finish yur set up with this turbine??

[S13 curtis]

yea old thread but s13 curtis did u finish yur set up with this turbine??

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh147/franchis3bo1/newfitment.jpg

Almost done and ready lol.

http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/298993-journey-hit-430-whp-t28-lets-find-out.html

[slider2828]

OMG that shit barely clears...... if the engine torques it looks like its hitting?

[S13 curtis]

OMG that shit barely clears...... if the engine torques it looks like its hitting?

Its all good man, my mounts are pretty solid, atleast it will work now for sure, it wasnt expensive for the angle either, i just got 2 v band flanges and got a 90* bend made.

[slider2828]

But it is close eh..... man....