Honda pussies out: new NSX cancelled

[OptionZero]

I suppose it should have been obvious with the withdrawal from Formula One, but Honda will be without a halo car (http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Honda-Concepts/236594/#):

Honda has cancelled the new NSX as part of a radical restructuring of its car making business.

The V10-engined supercar, which was a direct challenge to Ferrari and Porsche, would have been the most powerful production car that the company had ever produced.

Honda CEO Takeo Fukui announced the move in his end of year speech, saying that all development of the car would be cancelled. The company has also withdrawn its plan to introduce the Acura brand to Japan in 2010.

With the S2000 aging without a replacement in sight and the Acura bland already dumbing down any sportiness across the range, Honda is edging frighteningly close to Toyota-ness.

[shishcabobers]

Umm blame the economy?

[LongGrain]

these are bad times.

they will bounce back.

and honestly you say they are becoming like toyota. but financially and in general toyota is doing GREAT, they really have their heads on straight. they dont have a real sports car because they know right now it would not make any money.

look at how many un-sold GTR's there are. i went to one dealership just to see one in person since i hadnt seen one yet, and they had 3 sitting there that they couldnt sell..

[GSXRJJordan]

There are also unsold C6 Z06's sitting around Chevy dealers, but ZR1's are backordered for months - do you think Chevy will cancel development/launch of it's supercar models? Chrysler/Dodge is in deep water, but are they cancelling the Viper?

Nope.

If you build the right car, people will buy it. ZR1 = right car, at an awesome price.

[ronmcdon]

I guess it's understandable that in times like this, it might not be best to take risks. however, it's certainly true that the honda lineup is a bit ho-hum. toyota like might be taking things too far though. I still don't think toyota has anything as involving as say a s2000 or the current Si. Some of the IS models might have the performance, but they are still relatively boring cars to drive imo.

Personally I don't really care about whether the NSX flies or not. Even if I could afford it, I see no reason to blow over $100k on a toy. A GTR or a Z06 would the most expensive car I could ever see myself driving, and even that's unlikely.

[HyperTek]

awww i was looking forward to a new honda super car *yes at one point the NSX was considered a super car*

For once, a sequal car that would of had all of honda's motorsports experience applied to a production car.. cancelled..

also it might be due to the market? they would have to invest and produce a car that would compete with those others in the market and still try to make profit on it.

[OptionZero]

When Honda gets the FCX right, Toyota will die.

The NSX should be for fun.

[Matej]

As long as car companies build what people want, their cars will sell.

Look at the Genesis coupe. Yes, some of you may not like it, but whatever, there's an amazing amount of people out there who love it. No one ever took Hyundai seriously and everyone has been making fun of their cars for as long as I can remember, but they were able to turn around the public's opinion of their brand with one single car.

Every other automaker should be taking notes. No more trying to sell us what they want us to be driving.

[HyperTek]

lol i remember such cool cars as the hyundai excel lol
ill have to get on google/youtube to see if anyone as modded one of those

[Matej]

http://bkmania.com/bbs/data/bk_gallery/DSC04227.jpg
http://bkmania.com/bbs/data/bk_gallery/1114DAE.JPG
http://bkmania.com/bbs/data/bk_gallery/9992.JPG
http://bkmania.com/bbs/data/bk_gallery/1228836232/9993.JPG
http://blogfile.paran.com/BLOG_486552/200812/1228869741_89.jpg
http://bkmania.com/bbs/data/bk_gallery/S73F0892.JPG
http://bkmania.com/bbs/data/meeting/SANY0321.JPG

[fliprayzin240sx]

So question now is, is nissan still gonna build the silvia and Toyota still building their 86 replacement? I wouldnt be surprise if they decide to trim the fat off their production line.

[IIIXziuR]

Yeah I think the sucky economy is to blame for a lot of this.
I know things are not going so swell in Nippon kind of like here stateside.
Hopefully things will change and the manufactures will start designing non boring cars again once the economies pick up.

I heard on The AM Radio this morning that Chrysler is closing a decent amount of it's plants down for about 2 months and Ford would be doing the same but for a shorter amount of time. I don't event want to know what is happening with GM at the moment.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Yeah I think the sucky economy is to blame for a lot of this.
I know things are not going so swell in Nippon kind of like here stateside.
Hopefully things will change and the manufactures will start designing non boring cars again once the economies pick up.

I heard on The AM Radio this morning that Chrysler is closing a decent amount of it's plants down for about 2 months and Ford would be doing the same but for a shorter amount of time. I don't event want to know what is happening with GM at the moment.


GMs already planning on temporarily shutting down plants beginning of the year.

[JayDee M Rolly]

i dont mind that honda is stopping their motorsports and sports cars, if they make that FCX (if you watched the newest top gear, youll know what im talking about)

[ronmcdon]

The silvia and the 86 are completely different types of investment than a Halo NSX. With a halo car, you're almost expected to lose money based on the cost of R&D itself and the profits you might get from selling the car. The value of the car isn't how well it sells, it's how many potential customers you can attract into your showroom. What I find perplexing, is that most of the costs in R&D for the NSX already seems to have been spent. How much more would it be to make a couple production examples, even if only for display? By axing at a stage this late in it's development, Honda would have wasted a lot of money for nothing more than a brief publicity stunt, and expressing to the public it has limited confidence in it's own economic (if not also technological) capability in the future.

Delaying the NSX might have been a more strategic move, but canceling it outright seems rash and completely counter-productive. Besides, i really think Acura needs a halo car to bring people inside their otherwise uninspiring showrooms.

The Silvia and 86 are meant to make $ on their own. Even in a bad economy, it's not such a terrible hardship to own a 20-30k performance car. This is even more the case, given the sudden drastic drop in gas prices. I also think as boring as Toyota might be, they are more willing to take risks when it comes to offering different products and/or business approaches. They experiment much more than Honda. Honda has come to be notoriously conservative and somewhat inflexible. Personally I haven't been able to appreiciate the Acura's lineup, during the last decade or so. If I people wanted luxury, they'd probably buy bmw, merc, audi, lexus, infinit or even a caddy. If people wanted practicality, why not just get a honda?

[TheSquidd]

100% the Hyundai Genesis Coupe is the most exciting thing to happen to cars since they invented crashing. I've never considered buying a new car until this fucking thing came along.

http://www.ziptied.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10269/genesis.jpg

Japan is the new America, resting on it's laurels. Spurred by competition and a hunger for growth, Korea is the new king of cool.

[JayDee M Rolly]

^thats actually pretty cool, i saw one at a gas station and i guess the guy driving it worked for hyundai (theres a hyundai headquarters in my area). he said the one he was driving was a V6 pushing around 300hp? i think, had brembos too.

[ronmcdon]

100% the Hyundai Genesis Coupe is the most exciting thing to happen to cars since they invented crashing. I've never considered buying a new car until this fucking thing came along.

Japan is the new America, resting on it's laurels. Spurred by competition and a hunger for growth, Korea is the new king of cool.

I wouldn't jump to such conclusions yet. As nice as the Genesis looks, and as appealing as the specs may sound on paper, I think it has yet to prove itself capable as a performance car. \

While the Genesis Coupe might be something of a new approach for Hyundai, the concept of a 3,400 lb rwd coupe isn't something that's been introduced for the first time.

[TheWolf]

everyone expects the genesis coupe to be cheap.. when that shit comes in heavy, slow, pricey and underpowered people are gonna call it a korean 350z.. genesis sedans came in supposedly priced low but then it was like poof.. 45k hyundai.. I hear depreciation calling and it said you made a "smart" purchase.

[aznpoopy]

i guess the shitty economy is going to kill alot of interesting cars in development. kind of sucks.

The Silvia and 86 are meant to make $ on their own. Even in a bad economy, it's not such a terrible hardship to own a 20-30k performance car. This is even more the case, given the sudden drastic drop in gas prices

silvia is invariably a secondary sports car for nissan. nissan already has the Z. i wouldn't be surprised if any potential silvia gets axed.

[VROOOM]

There are also unsold C6 Z06's sitting around Chevy dealers, but ZR1's are backordered for months - do you think Chevy will cancel development/launch of it's supercar models? Chrysler/Dodge is in deep water, but are they cancelling the Viper?

Nope.

If you build the right car, people will buy it. ZR1 = right car, at an awesome price.

the current generation of Viper is supposed to be the last.

[driftking777]

^^^Its the same thing that happened in the Mid 70's to late 80's. Economy goes down. Production numbers begin to fail, and companies panic. So they do what they believe they have to do to survive. It this case it was Honda cutting the NSX. I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of new comers it the axe also.

However i do still hope between nissan and toyota they keep the new RWD models rolling.

[muddafakka]

As long as car companies build what people want, their cars will sell.

Look at the Genesis coupe. Yes, some of you may not like it, but whatever, there's an amazing amount of people out there who love it. No one ever took Hyundai seriously and everyone has been making fun of their cars for as long as I can remember, but they were able to turn around the public's opinion of their brand with one single car.

Every other automaker should be taking notes. No more trying to sell us what they want us to be driving.
Agreed 100%.

http://bkmania.com/bbs/data/bk_gallery/DSC04227.jpg

If I had a Genesis Coupe, it would probably look just like the one on the left. God I love it.


100% the Hyundai Genesis Coupe is the most exciting thing to happen to cars since they invented crashing. I've never considered buying a new car until this fucking thing came along.

Japan is the new America, resting on it's laurels. Spurred by competition and a hunger for growth, Korea is the new king of cool.
I agree with what you said about the Genesis Coupe.

But Japan being the new America, I'm not sure they've reached that point yet.

I wouldn't jump to such conclusions yet. As nice as the Genesis looks, and as appealing as the specs may sound on paper, I think it has yet to prove itself capable as a performance car. \

While the Genesis Coupe might be something of a new approach for Hyundai, the concept of a 3,400 lb rwd coupe isn't something that's been introduced for the first time.

While the coupe has yet to prove itself, I strongly believe that Hyundai did their homework with this one.

The concept of the 3,400 lb. RWD coupe may not be new but I could care less. If I saw another FWD N/A 4-banger sport compact aimed towards the "youth culture/tuner crowd," I'd hurl.


the current generation of Viper is supposed to be the last.
Yep in 2010 everything stops I believe. I really hope the Vipers can be saved by somebody.

[lflkajfj12123]

car makers are such pussies

[Andrew @ 240sxMotoring]

Yep in 2010 everything stops I believe. I really hope the Vipers can be saved by somebody.

As I understood Vipers are still profitable for Chrysler. Its demand outweighs production.

[VROOOM]

As I understood Vipers are still profitable for Chrysler. Its demand outweighs production.


the dodge dealer by my house has had a Viper in the showroom since my buddie bought a magnum. at least 6 months

[mRclARK1]

Gas mileage, economical practicality and resale value. That's what the vast majority of car buyers, new and used, care about. Honda probably figured with the economic situation, the general attitude of the marketplace and the near future outlook, it just wasn't feasible from a cost/benefit standpoint.

I doubt it's been actually canceled... More likely indefinitely postponed, but it'll resurface on their lineup eventually.

[HyperTek]

genesis = honda prelude


time will tell if it makes a lasting impression.. if it is a hit maybe that car will fuel other manufacturers to build competing rwd cars.. thats my opinion *waits for someone to say im wrong*

[Andrew @ 240sxMotoring]

genesis = honda prelude


time will tell if it makes a lasting impression.. if it is a hit maybe that car will fuel other manufacturers to build competing rwd cars.. thats my opinion *waits for someone to say im wrong*

But it already got other manufacturers off their feet. Toyota/Subaru and smacked some sense into Nissan to hurry up.

[Gnnr]

Honda is edging frighteningly close to Toyota-ness.

I think some manufacturers have forgotten to make fun cars. Specifically sports cars.


As far as the Genesis coupe. I think its too heavy as well, but you better HOPE that it does very very well. Because its success may be the extra kick in the ass that Nissan needs to bring a competitive SX to market.

[twotoes]

this sucks, but Honda DOES actually offer fun cars....

not sure if any of u have ever driven a new civic si or rsx-s but they are hella fun and the k series has hella potential. (oh god im gonna get yelled at.)

s2k has been around for awhile yeah, but its proven performance.

oh yeah and the TL and TSX are pretty freakin sweet too.

I think this is a smart decision by honda and im sure it will be back when this financial crisis shit is over.

Honda dropped f1 and the nsx, subaru and suzuki dropped WRC, I think if companies dont drop these type of things during troubled times its just stupid.

[OptionZero]

RSX-S = no LSD

Civic SI = too expensive for a civic, although it does look kinda neat

S2k = old

TL = gawdawful ugly

TSX = improved looks, reduced sportiness

[Matej]

Honda dropped f1 and the nsx, subaru and suzuki dropped WRC, I think if companies dont drop these type of things during troubled times its just stupid.
Let's hope the "Big Three" drop Nascar.

[K_style]

Let's hope the "Big Three" drop Nascar.


:ddog: .

[LongGrain]

There are also unsold C6 Z06's sitting around Chevy dealers, but ZR1's are backordered for months - do you think Chevy will cancel development/launch of it's supercar models? Chrysler/Dodge is in deep water, but are they cancelling the Viper?

Nope.

If you build the right car, people will buy it. ZR1 = right car, at an awesome price.

actually dodge is cancelling the viper...

[muddafakka]

this sucks, but Honda DOES actually offer fun cars....

not sure if any of u have ever driven a new civic si or rsx-s but they are hella fun and the k series has hella potential. (oh god im gonna get yelled at.)

s2k has been around for awhile yeah, but its proven performance.

oh yeah and the TL and TSX are pretty freakin sweet too.

I think this is a smart decision by honda and im sure it will be back when this financial crisis shit is over.

Honda dropped f1 and the nsx, subaru and suzuki dropped WRC, I think if companies dont drop these type of things during troubled times its just stupid.
The Civic Si is a pretty nice car but Honda needs moar RWD/sport compactyness in their lineup.

K-series motors are awesome. They def. have potential.

New Civics are kinda expensive though. That's my only gripe.

And the fact that they look good sometimes and other times I think otherwise.

RSX is no more, I liked them though.

S2000 are fun cars to drive, handle very well, blah blah blah. Replacement should be a coupe, less expensive, and have more low end torque.

TL/TSX were cool cars until they got redesign into polished pieces of shit. Have you seen the new '09s or whatever? They are fucking gross. Older ones were sweet though.

Acura took their only turbo motor and crammed it into an SUV or crossover or whatever the hell it was.

WORST MISTAKE EVAR.

Honda needs to throw that motor into a car.

[S14DB]

the dodge dealer by my house has had a Viper in the showroom since my buddie bought a magnum. at least 6 months

Mine has like 3 outside and 1 inside. I don't think I ever saw them move all the times I picked up / dropped off my friend there.


The demand for high end cars is not there right now. Just makes good business sense. Unlike the big 3 that makes Trucks and SUV's that no one wants.

[mrflip69]

Hyundai... could've just made a decent Tiburon.

Honda... needs to bring back an RSX/Integra type... the new Civic SI is.. meh. I don't think they ever really got too far in the NSX production. You see the test mule? Pretty much a hard top S2K. (I know it's on a new platform, but if you've been following, they really haven't made much progress, although it still is a bit late). For them to go FR, I'm not surprised they backed out on the NSX.

Nissan--haha, greedy dealers can eat it, now that those marked up GTRs aren't selling. Shame too, so much for that waiting list.

[Gnnr]

The Viper actually sells.

Dodge to begin negotiations to sell Viper brand shortly - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/25/dodge-to-begin-negotiations-to-sell-viper-brand-shortly/)
Viper still selling like hotcakes, ACR sold out - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/05/viper-still-selling-like-hotcakes-acr-sold-out/)

[ayuaddict]

i dunno man, im kinda happy driving my old ass cars.

i guess kids when i'm 45 will be driving beat ass Z33s and shit.

The Genesis, pretty damn cool car.

but...4 lug??

edit: uh nvm, most of them are 5 lug, i just saw that one that squidd posted and i guess its a PS.

[ronmcdon]

RSX-S = no LSD

Civic SI = too expensive for a civic, although it does look kinda neat

S2k = old

TL = gawdawful ugly

TSX = improved looks, reduced sportiness

Agreed overall, but I actually like the FA/FG Si's a lot. I owned a si sedan for about half a year, until I foolishly got it totaled in an accident recently. It's really not such a bad value at 21k, when you consider it's not that much more expensive than the EX models. Probably cost about the same as a EX w/ navi. It certainly is a better deal than say competitors like the more expensive mini S, mk.5 gti.

Basically it has all the practicality of the EX models, other than a slight dip in mpg. If you've ever driven one with decent tires (some come with all-season from the factory), you find it's exceptionally well balanced and entertaining. Everything from the steering feel, steering precision, brake feedback, shifter feel, is absolutely great. Seats were among the best. ultra-supportive, yet very comfy. i like them better than the recaros on my evo tbh. Suspension was very well sort out. You really have to be driving an Si to be able to appreiciate it well. It shines even further on an autoX course.

With regards to Acura, I just think it's going to be difficult for consumers to see it as an actual luxury marque. If they had gone more all awd with their models, gave it a bit more power, they might have done well. Honda certainly has the technology and know-how to do it. which makes it more the shame that they haven't applied those resources to what they have to offer in their commercial vehicles.

[OptionZero]

Make the S2000 a hardtop coupe, offer a "Type-R" version with 200lbs less and a little more power (more extreme than that stupid "CR" version, which retains the soft top). Use a little carbon fiber or something.

That would give it the added performance needed to stick with the 370Z.

[ayuaddict]

they should sell the S2000 with a real hardtop and a S15 SR and call it the type R.

i think that would be a cool car.

[punk138]

a gang-load of GM FORD and DODGE dealerships already closed down here in san bernardino.

crazy cuz i saw the local mitsubishi go first.

[FRpilot]

There are also unsold C6 Z06's sitting around Chevy dealers, but ZR1's are backordered for months - do you think Chevy will cancel development/launch of it's supercar models? Chrysler/Dodge is in deep water, but are they cancelling the Viper?

Nope.

If you build the right car, people will buy it. ZR1 = right car, at an awesome price.

that's because chevy/dodge can afford to gamble and play/build whatever they want or think is cool (big trucks, suvs, sports cars, non-economical/practical cars), since they will always get bailed out while tax payers get the shaft and pay for their mistakes.

sort of like a spoiled kid who can do whatever they want because mommy and daddy will always be there to bail them out.

if all the c6 z06s are sitting around and zr1 are selling like hotcakes, why don't they just stop producing the regular c6 z06 line and only offer/build the zr1 model that's demanded.



they should sell the S2000 with a real hardtop and a S15 SR and call it the type R.

i think that would be a cool car.

yep, that would practically be the revival of the s-chasis car that we are all waiting for.

(light weight rwd sports coupe with ~250-300hp)

[!Zar!]

Too many people complaining about what they want to see.

Yet nobody will have the money/credit to buy it when it comes out.

A majority of the people who buy cars that keep the companies profits up are the people who don't know the difference between one wheel drive and all wheel drive.

People who have never stepped full throttle in their whole adult life.

For a company to pour money into a car that people can't even afford right now would be a HORRIBLE decision.

New silvia? Psch. Sure, it would be cool. But many other cars could be had for around that price range.

That's the whole reason many companies gave up on the rwd platform. Why would someone spend 30k or whatever on a japanese import when they could toss a few more grand down and have a euro car.

Designing new cars just doesn't make sense.

Sure, I'd be happy to see them make new shit. Why, because I'm a guy. But honestly I don't plan on buying it. So why get worked up over it?

[VROOOM]

why buy a Civic Si when for the same price you could buy a MS3 or Cobalt SS that will murder the Si for the same price. my MS3 was 23k and it has over 100ft/lbs more torque and 65 more hp stock.

[ZX88]

good the new nsx looked like shit anyways and should stay a mr format.

[ayuaddict]

why buy a Civic Si when for the same price you could buy a MS3 or Cobalt SS that will murder the Si for the same price. my MS3 was 23k and it has over 100ft/lbs more torque and 65 more hp stock.

because...its a MS3 and a cobalt.

i dont even know what a ms3 is...

[VROOOM]

because...its a MS3 and a cobalt.

i dont even know what a ms3 is...


Mazdaspeed3. the Cobalt has the fastest fwd time around the Nurburgring that why

[S14DB]

MPG on a Mazdaspeed3 is horrible for the size.

[VROOOM]

MPG on a Mazdaspeed3 is horrible for the size.

everyone says that but i get 20mpg all city driving no freeway. im sure with freeway driving i could get mid to high 20's

[muddafakka]

why buy a Civic Si when for the same price you could buy a MS3 or Cobalt SS that will murder the Si for the same price. my MS3 was 23k and it has over 100ft/lbs more torque and 65 more hp stock.

Yeah if I had to choose between a Cobalt SS and a Civic Si I'd go with the Cobalt.

[ronmcdon]

why buy a Civic Si when for the same price you could buy a MS3 or Cobalt SS that will murder the Si for the same price. my MS3 was 23k and it has over 100ft/lbs more torque and 65 more hp stock.

MS3 typically is another 2-3k more. I actually very much wanted to get this, but the additional costs in insurance, mpg, and msrp made it difficult. I'm sure its a lot more fun to drive, but the Si has better practical qualities in mpg, resale, cheaper insurance rates, and possibly in reliability.

If you already have a faster car and prefer to have something more reliable, practical, yet still fun to drive about, the Si isn't a bad choice. If I was in the market again today to spend 24k on a nice car, practical concerns aside i'd prob opt for the improved 09 wrx.

[JRas]

NSX is classic, I almost don't want them to make another, in fear they will mess it up :(

I understand why they would cancel/pause it for now, but I can see them going back to it later.

Nissan Silvia will be good..
Hyundai Genesis looks fairly good, but it has yet to proven itself, plus kinda heavy.

I've always owned old cars, and I've been able to modify them without feeling bad.

[ayuaddict]

Mazdaspeed3. the Cobalt has the fastest fwd time around the Nurburgring that why

oh.

haha shows how much i know about current automobiles.

[flip3d]

+1 for Genesis Coupe.

Will be the FIRST brand new car I ever buy.

[David Steele]

New briefing : Honda has never called this new V10 awd supercar an NSX .


{ R&D }

* ・The development of the NSX successor model equipped with V10 engine will be cancelled. (emphasis added)
*
* ・The start of operations at the new R&D Center in Sakura, which was scheduled to become fully operational in 2010, will be delayed.
*
* ・Honda has decided to withdraw from all Formula One activities, making 2008 the last season of participation.
*
* ・While reassessing investment priorities, Honda will concentrate its investments on initiatives which enable Honda to survive in the rapidly changing world and achieve continuous future growth.


Further strengthening advanced environmental technologies while maintaining a long-term viewpoint

* ・In order for Honda to sustain its business during the next 100 years of the automotive industry, it is critical for the company to further strengthen its ability to continue advancing environmental technologies and to apply them to creative and attractive products.
*
* ・Since the establishment of the company, Honda has been consistently pursuing advanced environmental technologies in every business area. More than ever, Honda will concentrate its resources on the development of fuel-efficient products.
*
* ・The keys to achieve this goal are advancements of electromotive technologies including hybrid models as well as motorcycles and small cars.
*
* ・By concentrating the focus of its technology and product development efforts largely into these two areas, Honda will strive to achieve a breakthrough under the difficult business environment.

【Hybrid models】

* ・Honda recognizes hybrid technologies as the most realistic path for CO2 reduction at this moment.
*
* ・To effectively utilize fixed resources, Honda believes it is most important to focus all of our energy on hybrids and achieve mass market penetration as soon as possible.

[sentiumprogram]

. .

[beeracing s14]

I wonder if Toyota will let loose on pushing to production a new Supra that they call Lexus LFA?

[OptionZero]

LFA was killed a while ago.

[Gnnr]

Actually, a good point was brought up that I had forgot about. The ONLY ONES calling this the "next NSX" where the media journalist. Not Honda. So the possibility of an official NSX in MR platform could still happen...I'd expect something to start coming about in 2 years.