Tire Recommendations...

[Foxcolt]

Well looks like I've gotten my hands on a set of 17X8.5 (F) and 17X9 (R) 35offset all around.

What I need to know is what size tires I should put on em?

Also what brand would you guys choose? I'm looking for a good all round performance tire. Something that'll last me a good amount of time.

I'd like to spend no more than 500 shipped from tirerack.

Thanks folks!
Jed

[DoriftoSlut]

What type of driving?

I would say you COULD go with 215s, 225's, 235's, 245's and the rear will take 255 or maybe 265 but you will have clearance issues to worry about (and more understeer).

[Foxcolt]

Well, These are just gonna be for street driving. Nothing special. I've got a rear set for drift so I'd like to go with a nice high performance tire for my street wheels.

I'd also like to stay away from understeer.

235's in the front and 255's in the back? Would that work?

Thanks,
Jed who's trying to find a shop to fit 195's on his 8.5inch wide drift wheels:D

[DoriftoSlut]

Well I am partial to stretched sidewalss. I run 215/45/17 on 17x9J rims, so thats what i would do, cause they are cheaper (a bunch) than the other sizes. PURELY for street I would go 225/45/17 or 235/45/17 all round. You wont have understeer as bad. With 255 in rear there wil be a bit more understeer than stock. (the wider the rear tire is staggered vs. the front, the more understeer).

Also, 2 friends of mine go driving at Deal's Gap (the Dragon's tail... 318 turns in 11 miles...) Anyway Chris has a 435+ rwhp S14 KAT, and Russ has a 130~ rwhp S14 (Stock KA). Chris has subs and amps and a full interior, Russ has just about nothing in his car. Chris's tires: 235/45/17 front 255/40/17 rear. Russ was running stock tires at the time, iirc, so 16x6.5 probably 205/50/16. Wanna guess who Obliterated the other? Russ. I asked Chris why, he said his car was just understeer king and even running uphill at times, he could not catch Russ. both cars are daily driven, and Chris for sure, maybe Russ as well, goes to Road Atlanta track events/road races.

Oh well take it as you will...

[Foxcolt]

hmmm, so your saying its best to have the same size all around? Interesting.

I've always wanted to go with a staggered setup. I actually wanted rims that were 8 in the front 9 in the back. But the price of these were too good to not take. I'd be a shame if I have to put the same size tires on them :(

Any other opinions?

Thx,
Jed

[Steeles]

hmmm tire size I dunno man. theres sooo many theries i have no clue anymore. but for a good priced tire I've been really happy with my Yokohamma AVS ES100s well except that day it snowed... but thats to be expected right?

[DoriftoSlut]

Why would it be a shame? They are 1/2 an inch different. The same size tires will be tighter on the rear tires, making them more responsive, and giving you less understeer. i would not go with more than a 10mm difference between the F/R. Unless you know your car oversteers, or you like understeer. Whatever, don't listen to me, its ok... not my car. I am trying to offer you advice, but if that advice doesn't adhere to your predetermined desired response, don't listen to me.

[DoriftoSlut]

Oh types of tires, too: Dunlop FM 901's, Advan Neovas (Hehe $$$), FALKEN Azenis, Falken ST-series, Kumho Ecsta 712's, Potenza's...

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
Why would it be a shame? They are 1/2 an inch different. The same size tires will be tighter on the rear tires, making them more responsive, and giving you less understeer. i would not go with more than a 10mm difference between the F/R. Unless you know your car oversteers, or you like understeer. Whatever, don't listen to me, its ok... not my car. I am trying to offer you advice, but if that advice doesn't adhere to your predetermined desired response, don't listen to me.

not at all. i really appreciate your advice. no need to get offended.

At this point it looks like I'm gonna go with 235's all around.

[tnord]

why do you insist on a staggered setup again?

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by tnord
why do you insist on a staggered setup again?

To be honest I really have no reason for it. Just something I've always wanted to do.

If it turns out that having a staggered setup will hinder performance more than help it than I'll go with the same size all around.

However, From the limited knowledge I have on tires I understand that most high performance cars including race built use a staggered setup like I wanted. If it causes so much understeer than what are the positives about it?

Thanks,
Jed
Whos confused as all getup at the moment:confused:

[DoriftoSlut]

Also have to remember the wieght balance of those cars though. For example, the Ferrari 360 Modena has very staggered setup, but the weight it biased towards the rear, the MR set up is inherently oversteering, and they build in slight understeer for the average driver cause it is more predictable (not better). Same with Porsche 911, etc..

Also remember that race cars have crazy compounded tires, so the fronts, that get less work in a RWD car, can afford to possibly be more sticky, and the rears, to be more consistant will be harder sometimes. Or even vice versa depending on driver preference/car setup. We are talking EXCLUSIVELY 240sx (and most production FR cars).

[Foxcolt]

ahh I understand.

ok so... It'd be best (since I already have crazy understeer due to camber) to get same size tires all around.

Would the sidewall look any different between the front and the rears?

Also How would fitment be with 235's all the way around? S14. I'd like to get a realitivly wide tire to take advantage of the wide wheels I have.

[DoriftoSlut]

235's should look just about the same between front and rear. Good size for everyday driving with some spirited stuff in there too....

Should make a difference in helping your understeering prob's.

[Foxcolt]

What tire sizes/ wheel width's do you run?

[DoriftoSlut]

I have GTR wheels (17x9) with 215/45/17.

[Foxcolt]

These are your everyday driving tires?

How come you chose those width's? positives/negatives?


And thanks for anwsering all my questions. It kinda bugs me that your the only one willing to help:(

[Dousan_PG]

i would help too but i do the same as dorifto but i have 15s.

when i get some 9 inch wheels i do the same.

dorifto and i participate in the same style of driving.

[Steeles]

mmm well I'd help if I knew more does that count fox?

oh and L when your done schooling us on tires... ya wanna eat the D?

[Foxcolt]

No prob guys, thanks for the input.

I'm just stuck as whether to go with a conventional tire size i.e. 235's or a smaller size like a 215.

Is it safe to say that all people with staggered width's tend to choose the same tire size all the way around due to the fact that if they don't it will decrease rather than increase performance?

Why do I always have to make everything so complicated:D

[deltrr]

yokohama avs es 100 is the way to go here, and as explained by whats-his-face about the RR based cars, seems staggered setup is not actually functional on our FR cars (well, outside from a drag setup, atleast..)

back to the yoko's - they are farely cheap too, ~80 per tire for this setup you want. but if you dont want to get jipped on COD's perhaps you should have me buy them through my work for you? since your giving me a break on that limited slip and all? :cool:

Driftec is MINE!


With love,
James

[DoriftoSlut]

I have those on my car 'cause I have an RPS13, and it is very very low.those wheels/tires fit perfectly, but with coilovers, any tire bulge will rub. 215/45 streches nicely, and is a good sixe to break loose with only ~est~ 200 rwhp or so. I do not have any interest in drag racing, and I don't drive fast. Occasional grip is good for getting racinging lines and then going back and drifting those lines, etc... Plus, with all the wasted tires from drifting, 215 is a cheap size to buy for 17's. Also, 215/45/17 is carried just about everywhere.

Aaron, what's our style of driving? Posing? LOL. Internet drifting, or Ricing? LOL.

Bran-- I'm gonna take you down.. down to china town, boy. Get some good FTE, shady-ass SI, and then feed you some imported D. Chit Meign what you know 'bout OBMF D?

[Foxcolt]

Oh what up Dood! Didn't recognize you till I read all your post.

All I saw was "driftec is mine" and I started getting all ruffle'd:D

Hmm, 80 bucks a tire huh? let me do some reasearch on that brand name and I'll get back to you. Ya think that dealership would be able to mount and balance those tire for me?

Thanks!
Jed

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
I have those on my car 'cause I have an RPS13, and it is very very low.those wheels/tires fit perfectly, but with coilovers, any tire bulge will rub. 215/45 streches nicely, and is a good sixe to break loose with only ~est~ 200 rwhp or so. I do not have any interest in drag racing, and I don't drive fast. Occasional grip is good for getting racinging lines and then going back and drifting those lines, etc... Plus, with all the wasted tires from drifting, 215 is a cheap size to buy for 17's. Also, 215/45/17 is carried just about everywhere.


I figure since I have a set of rears that I'm gonna use for drift. I'd like something that I can corner with for everyday driving. Something that wouldn't break loose as easily especially in the rain.

In that sense I'd be better off with something like a 235 correct? However like yours my car sits really low and even with the 300z wheels I have on 205's my fronts won't clear my coilovers unless I use a spacer.

Is there anyway I can figure out if a certain tire size will rub my coilovers without actually test fitting em on first?

Jed
who's getting a damn headache:mad:

[deltrr]

thats not exact pricing, but tell me - whats your stock tire size? 195/60/15 or 205/55/16?

[Steeles]

you gotta research yokohama?!?! lol just playing man the es 100s replaced the AVS intermediate. AA (or whatever the top is) traction rating and a good wear rating too.

Lin - chit mang you cant take me nowhere with your ride in the ocean sumwherez!take ya to MY hood show you some of that GFBMF ol school D!

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by Steeles
you gotta research yokohama?!?! lol just playing man the es 100s replaced the AVS intermediate. AA (or whatever the top is) traction rating and a good wear rating too.


Oops i misread james's post. I thought he said tokohama.

In that case James I'll give you a call sometime this week to set things up.

Now I just need to find out what size I need:confused:

I think my stockie (300z wheels) are 205/55/16's.

[deltrr]

well if you had 205/55/16 then youll need a 215/40/17 for the tire/wheel combo to "work" (correct speedo and odo readout, etc)

i just got off the phone with tirerack - if you want them today, i can still place an order and have a set of 4 in on thursday at the latest (they will be coming out of indiana)

thats four (4) Yokohama AVS ES100 215/40/17

total with shipping is $420.00

let me know

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by deltrr
well if you had 205/55/16 then youll need a 215/40/17 for the tire/wheel combo to "work" (correct speedo and odo readout, etc)

i just got off the phone with tirerack - if you want them today, i can still place an order and have a set of 4 in on thursday at the latest (they will be coming out of indiana)

thats four (4) Yokohama AVS ES100 215/40/17

total with shipping is $420.00

let me know

Preciate it, however I'm gonna have to wait a week since A) my wheels aren't in yet B) I spend all my money on the wheels:D

I'll go with your deal. But I'm still unsure of what size I want.

PS. I can't remember the last time my speedo read right:D

[deltrr]

lol, allright.

[DoriftoSlut]

no, 215/40 is the wrong size.

With a 205/55/16, the rim+tire diameter would be: 241.5mm

With a 215/40/17, the rim+tire diameter would be: 189mm

With a 215/45/17, it will be: 210.5mm
With a 225/45/17, it will be: 219.1mm
With a 235/45/17, it will be: 228.5mm
With a 245/45/17, it will be: 237.5mm
With a 255/40/17, it will be: 221.0mm

I think the tire size for your 16 inch wheel should be 205/50/16.

That wheel+tire diameter would be: 221.0mm

[Foxcolt]

That's it I quit.

I can install a motor, tune a stand alone engine managment system, tell you every nook and cranny of an SR. But picking out tires for some fooking wheels is too fooking hard!!

I'm done. Gonna go buy a volvo:mad:

[DoriftoSlut]

Hahaha. Get either 225/45/17's, 235/45/17's or 215/45/17's.

215's are a little smaller than stock, 225 is about the same (closest), and the 235 is a little bigger.

215's will tell you you are going a little fast, 225's speedo will read the same, and 235's will say you are going a little slower than reality.

take your pick, none of those 3 are too bad to really notice any difference.






:D

[Foxcolt]

How bout 245's? I do drag race occasionally. So I'd like to get some more rubber on the ground than I had with the stockies.

Would a 245/45/17 fit on the front and back?

Wait a sec... If you put 215's on a set of 9 inch wide wheels therefore streching the sidewall to get em to fit. Would the contact patch be the same size as a set of 245's? Meaning that as you go up in width on the same size wheel all your really doing is making the sidewall bigger? Or am I completly off:confused:

[tnord]

race cars have staggered setups because they are pushing out BIG power, making it difficult to get power to the ground, are you making BIG power?

for the most part, race teams do not use tire size to dial in handling characteristics, that is left to suspension and aerodynamics.

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by tnord
race cars have staggered setups because they are pushing out BIG power, making it difficult to get power to the ground, are you making BIG power?

for the most part, race teams do not use tire size to dial in handling characteristics, that is left to suspension and aerodynamics.


No I'm not making BIG power, but at my current state of tune I do have problems getting power to the ground and if I don't correct this now I'm going to have even bigger problems when I put on my next upgrade. My concern is to get as much rubber on the ground as possible without inadversly effecting the performance of my car.

Now from what I've seen the 300z, supra and other mid priced sports cars use a staggered setup much in the same way as I am trying to accomplish. not to mention quite a few people with highly modified 240's.

Is it so wrong that I try and do the same thing?

So in that sense. Why does the 300z use a staggered setup? Supra? and so on.

[deltrr]

damned tire calculators are wrong i guess


whatever, just tell me the size when u figure it out.

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by deltrr
damned tire calculators are wrong i guess


whatever, just tell me the size when u figure it out.

Thanks bud, I'll get back to you.

[tnord]

Originally posted by Foxcolt
No I'm not making BIG power, but at my current state of tune I do have problems getting power to the ground and if I don't correct this now I'm going to have even bigger problems when I put on my next upgrade. My concern is to get as much rubber on the ground as possible without inadversly effecting the performance of my car.

Now from what I've seen the 300z, supra and other mid priced sports cars use a staggered setup much in the same way as I am trying to accomplish. not to mention quite a few people with highly modified 240's.

Is it so wrong that I try and do the same thing?

So in that sense. Why does the 300z use a staggered setup? Supra? and so on.

if you're gettin past 300whp, then a staggered setup is fine.

for the most part, stock cars have a staggered setup for much the same reason they don't have big rear sway bars......because it's much safer for 95% of the general public. also, it gives the perception that the car may be faster than it really is. in short......the bLiNg factor.

[240fluke]

Okay, so are you guys/girls out there saying that on the 17x8's and 17x9's you should run the same size all around (for cars with low HP ratings (read still under 300 HP)? What about running a slight staggered fitment, such as a 225/45/17 front and 245/40/17 rear or 235/45/17 front and 245/40/17 rear? What kind of characteristics would setups such as these tend to be like? Would these setups make sense or would something more along the lines of a 235/45/17 or 225/45/17 all around be better for a more neutral handling car?

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

BTW, here is an awesome little tire calculator to check and see how the tire will be compared to stock.

http://toy4two.home.mindspring.com/offset.html

And this one is a wheel offset calculator to figure out what offsets you might want to run for your car and how it will look.

Tim '95 SE

[deltrr]

yeah i was using that calc too

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by 240fluke
Okay, so are you guys/girls out there saying that on the 17x8's and 17x9's you should run the same size all around (for cars with low HP ratings (read still under 300 HP)? What about running a slight staggered fitment, such as a 225/45/17 front and 245/40/17 rear or 235/45/17 front and 245/40/17 rear? What kind of characteristics would setups such as these tend to be like? Would these setups make sense or would something more along the lines of a 235/45/17 or 225/45/17 all around be better for a more neutral handling car?


Well in his case, his wheels are within .5 inch of each other... not a big deal at all. The effect would be more noticeable with bigger width variation.

Did you not read the rest of the post? The point was that wider tires in rear will give MORE UNDERSTEER. Even on a Ferrari 360 Modena, running a wider tire in rear than the fronts will result in more understeer. Obviously the opposite combo would create more oversteer. (wider tire than stock varience... for example: if the stock F/R wheel widths differed by 2 inches, ie 17x8s and 17x10s, running 17x10 and 17x11 will create more oversteer than stock, which would be more nuetral<---assuming built -in understeer like the MOdena has). Now, running a 17x9.5 and an 18x9.5 will also create a different effect... You thought it was easy to explain? Ha!

Now apply this to our cars, that run the same width wheels from the factory. Do yuo think running wider wheels in rear will give you more nuetral handling, when our cars are understeering from the factory. Again, it is a personal preference... Maybe you liek the understeer (Like more avg. drivers who get scared are panic with oversteer). Understeer is less 'dangeous' for the hohum, average driver. I HATE IT. It is the work of a devil-inspired car.

Anyway, some more food for thought. Stretching the sidewalls will provide quicker turn-in and response (less comfort) and will have a slightly rolled edge for a pretty unique footprint/contact patch. Tire bulge will be slower reacting, but create a "comfort" zone where the driver can fu c k up slightly without reaching the limit (the wheel will actually move and flex the sidewall while the contact patch remains. It will take a certain amount of stretching to move the tire). I also hate this. :rolleyes:








:D

[240fluke]

Dorifto, okay, no I get what you were saying about the understeer being caused by wider tires in the rear of the vehicle. You actually explained that really well earlier in the posts. I guess I was just a little confused on it still. It seems like the best way to reduce the understeer (the most) is to run the same size tire all around.

Basically what I was trying to straighten out was if you run tire sizes that are close like a 235/45 front vs 245/40 you will still have more understeer than a 235/45 all around right?

Now if you ran the same size tire on staggered rim sizes, what kind of effect would that have compared to the same size rims front and rear?

Tim '95 SE

[tnord]

did nobody read/care what i said??

handling characteristics should not be tuned with the size of tire you put on, but your springs, brake bias, swaybars, etc.....

[DoriftoSlut]

Where did you see that? i was just abotu to say that you can adjust suspension (like full coilovers) components so that you CAN run wider tires in rear and overcome some understeer, but personally I would run the same sizes, and adjust the suspension to nuetral handling, since there IS some understeer from the stock setup.

[Foxcolt]

ok it's come down to two width's

Either a 235 f and 245 r -Streched sidewalls

Or a 245 f and 255 r- more contact patch

Does anyone know if the tire would buldge at all with the second option? Only reason why I wouldn't want that is because I want the tire to be flush with the rim.

Also what sidewall height should I get? I'd like to have as minamal as possible for the bling factor as tnord puts it:D

Thanks for everyone patience through this trying ordeal:p

[DoriftoSlut]

I would go with the 235/245 set. 235/45/17 F and 245/45/17 R. those will not bulge at all, they will look really nice, and unless you have BIIIG rims (You don't, you have 17's) small sidewall makes a. no sense, b. looks like crap, imo. Yeah, I have a smaller than normal sidewall, but my car is so low thati need that stretched to fit under my fenders/clear coilovers. For THAT functionality, I think it looks and performs ok. For you, unless you plan on lowering your car an much as me, the more meat you can use to "fill up" your fender/wheel gap, the better it will look. To me, at least. If you want some examples of this, i can post a few pics I might have from the net...

[Foxcolt]

I wouldn't be surprised if my car is as low if not lower than yours:D

I think I'm gonna go with 235/40/17 245/40/17 that way with the smaller sidewall I can avoid the fitment issues I know I'm gonna have with the tires rubbing on my coilovers.

How small is a 40 sidewall? Could you post pics of that setup so I can judge for myself?

THanks!
Jed

[DoriftoSlut]

All the pics I thought i had have no tire listing.. hmm oh well. Here is a Low car (love Itai's car) with some stretched sideals. IMO the front sidewalls are too small.

His rim/tire combo is F: 17x9 +15, 215/40/17, R: 18x9.5 +12 225/40/18.

http://www.planb-attack.com/jon/itai2.jpg

[DoriftoSlut]

Before you moan about his rims being staggered and tire sizes blah blah, he has 10kg/mm coilovers F and R (Obviously fully adjustable damping), Largus HUGE rear sway bar and 500ps! So he feels NO understeer, especially since with those high of spring rates and largus sway bar in rear, the car will be eager to rotate...





:D

[Dousan_PG]

dorifto
you NEED that rear valence to complete the kit. otherwise..blah. so strange.

[DoriftoSlut]

Shutup you f_cking poser. I can't afford the rear piece! LOL.

[deltrr]

i poo palot

[MazingerS14]

Not to hijack someones post but there has been some mention about tire bulge and rubbing coilovers. I currently have this problem.

I have GAB RevoStroke coilovers and right now I'm running Dunlop FM901's in 205/55/16 and 225/50/16 on my SSR Integral's sized 16x8 +32 ET all around. I would have liked to have run 225 on all four but knew that clearance up front would be close.

Even with the 205's in front they rub. I ended up having to buy two cheapo 5mm spacers in town to try to get them to clear. Even with the spacers (effective +27 ET) they barely rubbed. I ended up having to adjust my coilovers and raise the front about 1/2" to get my tires to clear. Even with that there is only 1mm clearance, I don't like this at all and I avoid spirited driving for the time being. I need to remedy this before auto-X starts.

With the car raised in the front slightly, the car is more balanced now. The rake my car used to have evened out the slight fender gap in front compared to back but shifted more weight forward. It now handles better but doesn't look as good:( The rear of my rocker panel is about 10mm higher than the front of the rocker panel so there is still a slight rake. Did the S14's have any front rake stock or was it level?

Anyways, about the tires. I love my FM901's but the reason they rub is because of the sidewall construction , especially that big ol' rim protector lip. I would like to have at least 5mm of clearance with my coilovers. I need some recommendations on a similiar performance/cost tire that has a sidewall that doesn't bulge as much (ie more vertical, smaller sectional width). I hear the Kuhmo 712's run narrow but are also taller. I know the tires are nice but I would like to try something different from the Kuhmo's unless they're the best bet considering price.

Also, how much clearance would I gain by installing camber bolts in front effectively adding 1 degree of positive camber. I imagine Iit's a simple trig function with the angle being 1 degree and the "adjacent" side being the distance from the lower strut bolt to the point of least clearance with tire and coilover. Thus the "opposite" side would give me the number I need. My brain isn't what it used to be and I forgot my trig functions so could someone please calculate this for me, I know there's a bunch of you guys still going to school with a fresh brain:) I'm hoping this number will be 5mm.

TIA

[MazingerS14]

Charity bump