Japan Vs. American

[moose]

Japan Vs. American, no don't go thinking I'm going to start debating which is better. Believe me I'm not, but I have a question. I'm sure some of the guys in Japan can answer this for me.

K, You know how you can get a new american sports car for like under 50 g's?
Well is it like that in Japan? If you worked in japan and made the same money as you did here, you'd it be cheaper to buy a Japanese car, because they are so readily available?
If I was to move to Japan, would buying parts be as cheap as american parts are here?

Any replies excepted. Thanks

[Dousan_PG]

you can get a stock Laurel (turbo'd) or Silvias for around 1,000 USD
probably cant afford it if you live in a large city, parking rates are high and tolls, gas etc. someone in japan can elaborate more. but there is high turn over on cars due to strict laws and such. get a japanese auto trader...its nuts.


in usa people want imports (japanese european) etc.
but the parts and services are expensive
domestics (ford/chevy/etc) are cheap (like how domestics are cheap to japanese)

in japan people want imports (domestics/european)
but the parts and services are expensive
domestics (nissan/toyota/etc) are cheap (like how domestics are cheap to americans)


its the opposite
if i was in japan i would want a good old V8. old stang or something like that.
cant get enough of that rumble. more reason japanese LOVE nascar, that sound cant be replicated.

[moose]

Originally posted by dousan36 its the opposite
if i was in japan i would want a good old V8. old stang or something like that.
cant get enough of that rumble. more reason japanese LOVE nascar, that sound cant be replicated. [/B]

I love this, ha ha lol but there is a skyline that I swear sounded like an old muscle car. Here's the website, download the videos I think there are a few, but the one where they are tuning it is the best. HERE:

http://www.exvitermini.com/

Choose the first one in the movies section.

[KiDyNomiTe]

I am assuming life in a Japan is just totally different. You have to consider how much money the average japanese man makes, compared to the average person here.

Money has different values in different places. The only example I can give you is Zimbabwe (seeing as I have spent time in both US and Zimbabwe).

The currency rate to US dollars is something like One US dollar is like 1300 Zimbabwean $s. To make it easier on my math, we will say $1000.

Now in the US $10 won't get you very far for a night out on the town. You could go to like McDonalds and pay for yourself.

In Zimbabwe $5000(which is 10 USD) can get you a meal somewhat equivalent (well food in the rest of the world is healthier) for two.

For all you math wizs, thats the same amount of food for half the price.

Things out there are a lot cheaper, but life out there is not good, unless your a billionaire in zimbabwean dollars (like my uncle :D ).

Now in Amsterdam, 8 Euro Dollars can buy you a meal at McDonalds, now let me tell you the McDonalds over there tastes like ****, and Fanta really sucks there comapred to places in Africa(the magic of drinking from a glass bottle).

But anyway, back to track, different places have different values for different things.

Most tell me that used cars are real cheap over there cuz of some 2 year renewal law or something.

Only real way to answer that question is find someone who has had to make a living in both America and Japan, not someone who has gone on vacation.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by KiDyNomiTe
The currency rate to US dollars is something like One US dollar is like 1300 Zimbabwean $s. To make it easier on my math, we will say $1000.

Now in the US $10 won't get you very far for a night out on the town. You could go to like McDonalds and pay for yourself.

In Zimbabwe $5000(which is 10 USD) can get you a meal somewhat equivalent (well food in the rest of the world is healthier) for two.

For all you math wizs, thats the same amount of food for half the price.

lol. the math wizzes (sp?) are wondering how if $1 USD is equal to the est. $1000 Zimbabwean, how does $5000 Zimbabwean = 10 USD? Isn't it 5?

Yeah... really off topic. Sorry. :p

in japan people want imports (domestics/european)
but the parts and services are expensive
domestics (nissan/toyota/etc) are cheap (like how domestics are cheap to americans)
not to offend anyone... really just a joke:
but everytime I think of people in Japan with sport compact cars like Silvias and such, I can picture them saying "haha, I am owner of superior Japanese product made by superior Japanese technology!! Good for me I can sell my superior used parts to dumb Americans who start with inferior version of my car!" then again, I watch the Simpsons too much.....

[KiDyNomiTe]

Originally posted by AceInHole
lol. the math wizzes (sp?) are wondering how if $1 USD is equal to the est. $1000 Zimbabwean, how does $5000 Zimbabwean = 10 USD? Isn't it 5?


I guess you math wizzes never liked letters. My point was for half the money you can get the same meal for two. But I am not a wiz cuz i forgot to change the pay for yourself part. But I guess there is a dumb in all of us.:rolleyes:

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by KiDyNomiTe
But I guess there is a dumb in all of us.:rolleyes:

LoL.... my 3/8" drill bit and I have a LOT of dumb in us, so don't sweat it.

[moose]

so ah back on topic anyone else, want to comment on the original question?

[adey]

Originally posted by moose
so ah back on topic anyone else, want to comment on the original question?

Originally posted by dousan36
you can get a stock Laurel (turbo'd) or Silvias for around 1,000 USD
probably cant afford it if you live in a large city, parking rates are high and tolls, gas etc. someone in japan can elaborate more. but there is high turn over on cars due to strict laws and such. get a japanese auto trader...its nuts.


in usa people want imports (japanese european) etc.
but the parts and services are expensive
domestics (ford/chevy/etc) are cheap (like how domestics are cheap to japanese)

in japan people want imports (domestics/european)
but the parts and services are expensive
domestics (nissan/toyota/etc) are cheap (like how domestics are cheap to americans)


its the opposite
if i was in japan i would want a good old V8. old stang or something like that.
cant get enough of that rumble. more reason japanese LOVE nascar, that sound cant be replicated. ========================
Originally posted by AceInHole
everytime I think of people in Japan with sport compact cars like Silvias and such, I can picture them saying "haha, I am owner of superior Japanese product made by superior Japanese technology!! Good for me I can sell my superior used parts to dumb Americans who start with inferior version of my car!" then again, I watch the Simpsons too much.....
haha, I can see it too... some middle age japanese guy chuckling evilly to himself as he happily revs his 450hp S13 silvia beast...

[S14mc]

you can find alot of used skylines, silvias and fairladys that are already hooked up at used car lots and they are cheap as hell. Probably cheaper to import a skyline and get it to US standard than purchasing from MotoRex.

[KiDyNomiTe]

Originally posted by S14mc
you can find alot of used skylines, silvias and fairladys that are already hooked up at used car lots and they are cheap as hell. Probably cheaper to import a skyline and get it to US standard than purchasing from MotoRex.

Motorex charges you mainly for the legalizing.

You could just go to J's Garage and get them to bring it over, but they make it a race car and take a bunch of **** out but send it back to you in a box.

They are currently selling a '99 R34 GTR (http://www.j-garage.com/sale/usedcars/stock/110723.html) with 24,000 km for $44K.
Or a '02 Silvia S15 Spec-R (http://www.j-garage.com/sale/usedcars/stock/110722.html) for $19.2K

I am assuming the cars go for even cheaper over there, but they just juice up the price, for thier services.

[s13rookie]

what i am wondering is this ( please bear with me, ive been drinking):

say a person in japan and a person in the US, were both given 10g, or the yen equivalent. going for a strictly 1/4 time who would win?

a dude at work the other day had a ( i think) jegs catalog and i was looking through it. you could buy a 650+ hp crate motor for about 4000, do japanese people have this option but for THEIR domestics. is there some place selling 800hp 2jz engines for 5 grand or so? im just wondering

[KiDyNomiTe]

Originally posted by s13rookie
what i am wondering is this ( please bear with me, ive been drinking):

say a person in japan and a person in the US, were both given 10g, or the yen equivalent. going for a strictly 1/4 time who would win?

a dude at work the other day had a ( i think) jegs catalog and i was looking through it. you could buy a 650+ hp crate motor for about 4000, do japanese people have this option but for THEIR domestics. is there some place selling 800hp 2jz engines for 5 grand or so? im just wondering

I am pretty sure crate engines are expensive over there. Tomei, JUN, and a few other companies make engines, go to takakaira to check out the prices, not sure how much they are, but they are expensive.

I think America would have the faster car if you got a domestic. I am nto too educated on the domestic scene, but say you get some donor body,whats the american version of a Datsun 240Z, well I will use a datsun as an example.

Datsun 240Z for around $500
Umm since i know little about domestics I will say buy a 2JZ for about 2500 (I have seen em for around that price)
Then do all the work yourself spend another $2000 on strengthening the chasis, and parts for the motor swap.
then you have 5000 to create some ruckus with that motor.

But I have heard about some domestic motors that with 1000 bucks you can get a lot of horsepower, heard it on here sometime back, something like an old camaro, or firebird.

I just think that American motors have more potential to become 1/4 mile whores. Just not sure on prices

[HippoSleek]

For $10,000 you could probably build a street legal domestic that would compete with the fastest "strip-only" cars in Japan.

Repeat after me - in a straight line, there is no replacement for displacement.

New cars - consider that the Camaro SS was (RIP) priced a couple thousand dollars more than an s15 Spec-R. It weighted about 500 lbs more, but came w/ 75 extra hp and about 100 extra lb ft. of tq. and had the same roadholding numbers. Those numbers similarly exceed the performance of the $60K GTR (althogh a GTST w/o all the computer crap would be a better comparison).

A z06 - for about Skyline money, will KILL it in every statistic except passenger room. It will also eat an NSX at double the price.

Granted, you couldn't brag about hp/L or cool JDM parts...

[adey]

I can't put my finger on it, but something about domestics (like corvettes and mustangs and camaros and vipers, even) just bothers me. I don't know if it's the ridiculous displacement or the poor gas mileage or the poor design or what, but there is SOMEthing about domestics that just bother me.

Granted, I think old muscle cars (uh... 60s?) have a certain appeal to them. These days, cars like the Z06 (fine, the front clip of a z06, the butt is ugly) and ... and.... .... and..... well, we'll leave it at the front clip of a Z06-- look acceptable to me.

It seems American styling houses (industrial designers, specifically car designers) just can't draw (a car) for sh!t.

[HippoSleek]

Interesting. I'm really curious why import board HATE "dumbestics." I won't touch on the displacement, etc. comments (although you may want to look back at the fuel efficiency of larger motors thread a while back ;) ), but I'm curious about the styling.

As for appearance - here's my rating of Japanese sporty cars:
Nissan - 350z/G35 2 dr. is A-. S15 looked good coming, but looked like a GrandAm leaving - B. b15 sentra - UGH. R34 - overly agressive boxy sedan on steriods.
Honda - New NSX - ugh. RSX - looks cheap.
Toyota - Celica - cheese. MRs - wind up toy.
Subaru - WRX - ugly boxy sedan on steroids.
Mitsu - Eclipse - secretaries of the world rejoice! Evo/Lancer - fugly cheap-looking sedan on steroids.

I actually think the z06 is gorgeous in both styling and fuctional looks. I also think the current Mustang is nice looking - better than about anything in Japan. I admit, I can't get into the styling of the Camaro beyond the functionality. BMW, on the other hand...

[moose]

Originally posted by HippoSleek
Interesting. I'm really curious why import board HATE "dumbestics." I won't touch on the displacement, etc. comments (although you may want to look back at the fuel efficiency of larger motors thread a while back ;) ), but I'm curious about the styling.

As for appearance - here's my rating of Japanese sporty cars:
Nissan - 350z/G35 2 dr. is A-. S15 looked good coming, but looked like a GrandAm leaving - B. b15 sentra - UGH. R34 - overly agressive boxy sedan on steriods.
Honda - New NSX - ugh. RSX - looks cheap.
Toyota - Celica - cheese. MRs - wind up toy.
Subaru - WRX - ugly boxy sedan on steroids.
Mitsu - Eclipse - secretaries of the world rejoice! Evo/Lancer - fugly cheap-looking sedan on steroids.

I actually think the z06 is gorgeous in both styling and fuctional looks. I also think the current Mustang is nice looking - better than about anything in Japan. I admit, I can't get into the styling of the Camaro beyond the functionality. BMW, on the other hand...

hipposleek I don't understand you!! Do you come on here to make fun of imports? Or do you really like them? Because what you have displayed here shows that you really don't like them. For your information, I've seen Skyline GTR's beat Camaro's, Mustangs, grand nationals and you name it. Imports are just so much better, they appeal to todays driving, and with the gas milage, its really a good way to spend your money. Personally I like it that my S14 hasn't broken down so much, where my buddy's mustang always has something wrong with it. I just laugh and driveaway.
Oh, and another thing. How many people out there are over 30? When you're all done racing and acting dumb, you'll still have your import that will get you around for basically nothing. Um, I sure wouldn't want a 800hp GAS GUSSALER, that is only used to drive to the grocery store. Oh and resale value? CRAP. Imports all the way!!

[adey]

Originally posted by HippoSleek
Interesting. I'm really curious why import board HATE "dumbestics." I won't touch on the displacement, etc. comments (although you may want to look back at the fuel efficiency of larger motors thread a while back ;) ), but I'm curious about the styling.
<snip>

Heh, okay, I concede some ground on the issue of gas efficiency RELATIVE to displacement, but in terms of Gallons of fun per gallon of gasoline, I seriously don't think you can get much better than our 240sxs. Especially with gas prices going up, the high fuel consumption of large displacement (esp. domestic) engines just isn't practical. It's like having an SUV!... haha from now on, I will associate Domestic owners to SUV owners-- except those who own Muranos, MDXs, or Cayennes. ;)

I find mustangs among the dumbest looking cars around. Dumb as in fake plastic grille inserts (i.e. non-functional), RIDICULOUS (higher than many SUV) ride heights, plastic-that-looks-like-plastic interior and exterior pieces, and the general understanding that 'vert mustangs are GIRLS CARS! :D

But yes, I guess we shouldn't get too into this argument again... we'll leave it at Corvette front end = wannabe FD3S front clip... while the corvette butt = butt ugly. heh heh.

Of course, this is all just MHO. To each their own!! w00t!

[HippoSleek]

I hesitate to reply, but only b/c I know there are a lot of people who have closed minds due to the current beliefs on import superiority. My posts aren't intended to make you change your mind, but just to have you open it to the possibilities. I think too many people get the fever for all things Asian - girls, cars, food, technology - everything - the whole lifestyle b/c it is the current cool thing. All I ask is that people check up on their facts rather than assuming that, because we live in the most powerful country the world has ever known, that we can't do anything right. There are good and bad points to each car/society/girl. If you take the time to study them all, you might appreciate them much more. Second, don't assume anything - study. Prejudging and prejudice rarely benefit anyone.

GTR vs. --insert car here-- - I'm not going to play "make up a street racer and say who won." Go to a drag strip. Go to National level events. Show me GTRs. Hell - go to National level Import only drag races and show me the GTRs running 10's. Great - I can go to my local Friday night test and tune and find 20 guys w/ mullets and cars that cost 1/5 the price of the GTR... running 10's. (before I bother posting number's from MIR or something, produce the GTR figures. Numbers - not street racing videos, please).

MPG - A KA powered s14 is rated at 22/28; a V8 Mustang is rated at 18/26; a V8 Camaro is rated at 19/28; and a Vette is rated at 19/28. We're talking about 3 mpg city in exchange for 170+ hp are you freaking kidding me? And an SR or a Skyline get worse mileage than that. I use real live facts (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/index.htm)

I admit, I can't really refute the part about cars being so appealing to "todays driving" since the only ones that haven't been discontinued are the Moosetank and the Vette (note - the s15, R34, and RB and SR motors are dead while the LS1 & Mod-8 live on). Appealing to todays trends - I'd agree w/ that.

Reliability - you might have a point there, but that's not what you started of arguing, is it? You wanted speed. Speed/$. FWIW, Nissan came in DEAD LAST in JD Power's Initial Quality Survey last month.

800hp GAS GUZZLER - As for getting to the grocery store, I guess you think a virtual two seater like a 240 is practical? Concept - "second car" "play car." FWIW, by the time I'm 30 (I'd bet I'll be 30 before you'll be 20), I will have a designated race car. It will not go to the market, but it will probably get better gas mileage than my s14. I hope the day that I'm "all done racing" never comes - I think that "acting stupid" part is long past. (track racing)

Resale value - In 1998, a z28 Camaro cost about $2500 less than an s14 given similar options. It's value is $145 less in my area, according to KBB (given base z28; S14 SE). Oops - there goes that argument. It might have worked if we drove Hondas or if all imports were ITRs.

Now, do imports have their benefits? Obviously. Is it in $/hp? NO. MPG/hp - NO. Hp/modification$ - NO.

Like I said, I don't want to change anyone's mind based on figures related to a few specific areas -- but I would like people to know what they are talking about before they open their mouths. Moose- You would do well to take this to heart.

[adey]

(sigh-- I was hoping it wouldn't come down to this... AGAIN. :o )
I don't mean to pour oil on the fire, but just a side side little iddy biddy note... I don't care about drag race numbers at all. :D let's hear some feedback on trackability (REAL tracks... not tracks where you don't turn, or tracks where you only turn left) of these cars. ;) Also I think it should be kept in mind that OE tires for these cars are also very different. Japanese imports tend to have little tires from the factory, relying on suspension adjustments to improve road holding... while domestics seem to just slap a fatter tire on their car just to improve on-paper numbers so we can't tell that they're actually using the exact same suspension setup as they were 30 years ago. ;)

[HippoSleek]

FWIW, a z28 will blow your fvckin doors off even worse on a track! Not to mention that they need all that rubber to keep the power down. Realistically, you don't need must more than a 205 for an earth rumbling 155 hp. What suspension tech isn't 30 years old - even the McPhereson strut is (I know my first car - a 1974 StoopidBeatle had them).

I'm just getting sick of the, as Travis put it, "8======D :o Japan " around here lately. It's feeling ClubSi-ish. Some people are particularly pushing my buttons w/ the Declaration of Dryfto-pendance and Japan makes EVERYTHING the best sh!t.

**edit - b/c I can't properly misspell

[moose]

hey hipposleek, sell your 240 (if you really had one) and go buy a domestic. You love them so much, so do it. We won't care! Hey I wish the whole world loved domestics, just so I could be different. Yes go buy a mustang or camaro or corvette and have fun. We won't mind at all.

[Jim96SC2]

Hippo, I beat you man. 21 and have a dedicated race car (just not done yet). I agree with you on many points though. 240's are great, but they WILL get their ass handed to them by a lot of cars. I've love to have a vette, but it's way too much $$ for me right now. Maybe in 5 years...

I think the funniest arguement by the JDM-is-god people is the DOHC vs OHV thing. Little do they realize that back in the 60's and 70's GM had OHC engines when honda was uhh... making 2 strokes I think.

Either way, the 240 is a fun car. Can be made pretty fast. But certainly isn't the end all be all of cars. The only way to achieve a good center on your opinion (getting a little Hagakure, bear with me please) is to look at various other cars that you will face and find their strengths and weekness'.