Re: Moderation

[ruf]

In response to this thread... (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22120&perpage=30&pagenumber=2)

Originally posted by mrmephistopheles
quote:
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Originally posted by ruf
YOU F**KING IDIOTS.
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Excuse me? You care to be a man, and call me that to my face, or will you settle for being a little girl and call me that on an internet forum? I will not stand idly by and be called that, as well as letting the rest of the users on this forum be called that. I recommend you grow a set and think carefully before you post. You're out of warnings.

-Kevin

Yes I care to be a man, if you wouldn't lock the thread before I could reply.

You're trying to say that if you witnessed the above argument in person that you wouldn't call them idiots? A new member is sharing just a little insight about his own culture, and they're jumping down his throat. You would think that with all of the stupidity and misinformation on this board, you guys would have a better cause for your crusade.

As for your machismo, yeah I would say it to your face. Would you beat the crap out of me? I don't know and I really don't care. I've won and lost my fair share of fights. All I've got left to say about that is that it takes a REAL man to settle something as trivial as this with his fists. :rolleyes:

Honestly, my post wasn't even directed at you, but since you insist:

Gladhatter: You did claim that it was incorrect to call a 240sx or 180sx an S13. By not being open-minded and realizing that nobody was trying to say the car was named that, instead of realizing that they were referring to the platform via the chassis code, you show us your ignorance and intolerance.

By not being open-minded and realizing that he wasn't trying to say that the chassis code was invalid, instead of realizing that he was referring to colloquial terms that the local Japanese use to distinguish the different s-chassis models, you show your lack of understanding. I think that "ignorance and intolerance" is a little strong in this case. Your reply (along with some others) was singular and concise in correcting a misunderstanding about technical nomenclature. What I can't understand is how, over the course of 6 days, you can allow less-polite less-informed posters to harangue a new member who is not entirely incorrect. You are basically condoning the condescending replies toward someone who is obviously having a hard time communicating his intent. Yet I'm the bad guy because I insulted someone. Way to go moderators.

I happen to take great care when I post. I can't say so much for 90% of the people on this board. Granted that cursing was uncalled for (I apologize for that), can you find flaw in my argument? I used to politely correct misinformation and offer up advice, but it's exasperating when the 5th incarnation of S1580RB25DETTdryft doesn't bother to search. I've seen you post here and in other forums, and I know you are just as tired of this as I am. You guys don't even respond to the poser posts anymore, so more misinformation and uninformed egos fester. My last warning? Or what? Ban me? No big loss. I just won't have as much to laugh about. Hell, you'll probably be doing me a favor. The only Zilvia member that I've ever had the displeasure of trying to do business with turned out to be a fraud and stuck me with $2000 worth of merchandise. So go ahead and stick up for the dreamers, posers and scammers and threaten honest, informed contributors. You'll be sure to turn Zilvia into the laughingstock that it already is.

Originally posted by Grant
quote:
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Originally posted by ruf
YOU F**KING IDIOTS. YOU KNOW I LIKE LITTLE 5 YEAR OLD BOYS! uh-oh, OH NO!!! down boy!!!
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Grant - Your inane misquote shows your immaturity. A very surprising response from someone that I'm trying to cut a break on an exhaust system. BTW, if you say blacktop, you SHOULD get an S13 motor. S14 blacktop is redundant.

*Disclaimer: There are a number of Zilvia members whose opinions I value greatly and whose accomplishments I sincerely admire. Ironically, mrmephistopheles is one of them.

[adey]

Does anyone else smell a coup in the air? :o
Sorry, I'm a post whore.:confused:

[Kreator]

Blah. why don't you kids grow up? I dunnow about others, but i refer to s13s as all 240s made from 89-94, s14s 95-98, silvias as all 240s made in japan and personally i could care less whether a japanese hatchback is a silvia or not. So why wouldn't you guys stop arguing about stupid bs and do something constructive?

[ca18guy]

Mods make mis judgements just like everyone else. I personally hated locking threads and not letting the other person respond cause it seemed like such a pussy thing to do, expecially on something as miniscule as that thread. You should have PMed him this instead of postiing probably and he might have unlocked it.

[AKADriver]

haha, and I thought I was pedantic.

I made one post on that topic and look what it turns into...

Oh well, have fun with the argument, kids.

I'll go drive my, uhh, S13? 180? Ah hell, I'll just call it "big red dildo".

[DuffMan]

Well at least SOME people in Japan call a 180sx an S13. The letters S13 are in the model number, FSM ect. so at least Nissan themselves call it one.

If people refer to only the coupe as S13 in Japan than it must be a sort of slang type thing. Maybe they have something against giving 2 different numerical designations to the same vehicle or something.

Anyway its a silly little thing to get worked up about.

[mrmephistopheles]

First, I want to apologize for insinuating you were a 'little girl' and suggesting you grow a set. That was wrong of me. I locked the thread because it was becoming a flamewar and was completely off-topic. If anyone ever has any problem with anything I do, I invite them to PM me so we can sort things out.
As far as the argument was concerned, sure I don't think it was on the higher orders of thought, but it was still a valid argument.
There was arguing on both sides as to what an RMS13 was called here & there, and it got a little bit heated. I stepped in when I did in an effort to save the thread. I have nothing against a good argument, but not in another person's thread. It is rude and wrong.

With the exception of your opening sentence, your thread was 100% spot on, and even though it was still off-topic, it was absolutely correct. I had no problem with that part of your post.
However, I have to draw the line at people calling others 'f'ing idiots' Prior to that point, there had been no name-calling. However, it was all still off-topic.
As far as gladhatter sharing insight about japan, it seemed to me (and to many others) that he was trying to say it was incorrect to call a 240sx or 180sx an S13. Yes, granted he said something to the effect of 'HERE it's not called S13', but it IS still considered an S13 there.
My comment about saying that to my face was more for the effect of 'would you really want to call me that over something as trivial as this?'. I personally wouldn't do anything about it, other than consider you less of a person for doing so. I see however, that you're level-headed and I respect that.

What I can't understand is how, over the course of 6 days, you can allow less-polite less-informed posters to harangue a new member who is not entirely incorrect. You are basically condoning the condescending replies toward someone who is obviously having a hard time communicating his intent. Yet I'm the bad guy because I insulted someone. Way to go moderators.

Yes, some users were less than 100% polite (Yoshi giving a :rolleyes: and saying 'Be nice.') and some were even less-informed, but at the same time, there were quite a few very poilte and learned users who were trying to get the same point across. I don't know where you saw condescending remarks, and you were the first user to come out and call someone a name (and of course I had to reciprocate.... *slaps self*).

I've seen you post here and in other forums, and I know you are just as tired of this as I am. You guys don't even respond to the poser posts anymore, so more misinformation and uninformed egos fester.

Yup. I try to when I get a chance, but 90% of the time, someone's beaten me to the punch. I'm not on Zilvia a whole helluva lot.


My last warning? Or what? Ban me? No big loss. I just won't have as much to laugh about. Hell, you'll probably be doing me a favor. The only Zilvia member that I've ever had the displeasure of trying to do business with turned out to be a fraud and stuck me with $2000 worth of merchandise. So go ahead and stick up for the dreamers, posers and scammers and threaten honest, informed contributors. You'll be sure to turn Zilvia into the laughingstock that it already is.

At the same time, though, you know you don't want to be banned. I never even threatened you with it. I'm sorry for the unfortunate turnout of your business transaction, but it's not Zilvia's fault. I'm not sticking up for anyone, and I never threatened anyone either. As far as Zilvia being a laughingstock, I consider that a fault of users, not moderators or administrators. We can only help things get better, we can't make them perfect. It's the users that make most of the threads, whether they're about fishing or an engine rebuild. I try to be useful when I can, but I have a life outside of the internet and need to spend most of my time there.


*Disclaimer: There are a number of Zilvia members whose opinions I value greatly and whose accomplishments I sincerely admire. Ironically, mrmephistopheles is one of them. [/B]

Honestly, I value yours as well.

-Kevin

[mrmephistopheles]

Originally posted by ca18guy
Mods make mis judgements just like everyone else. I personally hated locking threads and not letting the other person respond cause it seemed like such a pussy thing to do, expecially on something as miniscule as that thread. You should have PMed him this instead of postiing probably and he might have unlocked it.

Hear hear. Mods are ppl too, damnit. :D

I wouldn't have unlocked it, simply because it was so off-topic. If someone wanted me to unlock it, I'd want to go in and prune all the crap off-topic BS from it.
-Kevin

[ruf]

Originally posted by DuffMan
Anyway its a silly little thing to get worked up about.

That's exactly my point. Why not "Oh really? Over here we call it S13 coupe and S13 fastback. It's interesting how you guys don't use S13 to describe the fastback." It just really ****ed me off to see regulars bullying a new member who has legitimate information and maybe a bit of a communication barrier, when there is so much flamebait on this board. Apparently you can say whatever ridiculous crap you want so long as it pertains to RB swaps or bodykits, but heaven forbid you talk about local slang that isn't 100% accurate.

[HippoSleek]

Ruf - let me begin by saying that I 100% respect the honesty and integrity your bring to the board. That is perhaps the reason I was so shocked by your entry to the fray. It was harsh, considering you had not been attacked. I also agree w/ ca18guy that a premature lock is rarely a good idea. I also agree that twisting your words was not funny -- that plays well to the CSI crowd and I'd hate to see it here. Flames happen. Intrugue is interesting. But people need to let it go at some point.

As for gladhatter, I think he is a waste of bandwidth. In almost every post he has been involved with, he has started an argument. He is never 100% accurate, but will flame to the death to avoid admitting that. The silvia badge/rice thread is neither the first nor the last. As a practical matter, banning him after about the third incident would have kept everyone except those who like flame wars, a lot happier.

As for his comments, even you agree they are fundamentally wrong. His initial point that s13's are NOT Silvias is inaccurate. Ven diagram. s13's are both Silvias and 180sx's. 180sx's and Silvias are both s13's. That is the crossover. Had someone said 180sx's are Silvias, he would have been accurate. Had someone said ALL s13's are Silvias, he would have been accurate. He did not.

He backed this inaccuracy with further misleading statments about what cars were available in the states (s15's). He went on to post an irrelevant link to an Aussie website discussing a wholly different topic. From here, it got increasingly ugly. Flames flowed like water. What I haven't bothered with is his underlying premise - that the Japanese Silvia is the same as the 240sx - b/c in the end, may posters stated that that was a subjective belief. Some people believe that the motor and the placement of the steering wheel is a HUGE difference, others do not. But that wasn't glad's argument. As James and I both stated, no one was going to change their mind on that subjective belief - LET IT GO.

He could not. His flames became more manic and his information more inaccurate. Always defensive that someone should have an opinion other than Silvias = 240sxs and s13s are not Silvias. In the end, rather than admit he was wrong or just let the issue die, he claimed to have a KA18DE (of course, that was on page three and some other threads, after he claimed to have a CA18 on page one).

The bottom line is the gladhatter was technically inaccurate. But rather than correct his inaccuracy, he leveled a one man war against the entire board. Why that wasn't locked and him banned long ago is not my call. In the end, he insulted everyone who dared disagree with his inaccurate statement and insulted everyone who disagreed with his subjective belief that the motor does not make change the car, and eventually went out of his way to lie about what was under his hood.

Personally, I think his whole schpiel is crap. I'd wager he's just another kid logged on somewhere who thinks he knows more than everyone or just likes starting fights (since he has done so in virtually every thread he's been a part of). Having received some personal wishes from him via PM has only strengthened this belief. If he's not under 18, I'm the pope.

In the end, I guess you, Ruf, wanted to support the idea that not all s13's are Silvias - which is a valid point - that was not succinctly made by Glad. I think you missed the distinction the rest of us saw and thought we were just being a$$es for fun. In fact, there was history going into that post. His unwillingness to correct his statement, subjective belief that there is no functional difference b/c a Silvia and a 240sx aside, led some of us in and it got ugly from there. I'm surprised that many of the posters in that section are straight up, helpful people. People that chose to be here not b/c they like being on a "lesser" board, but b/c they like the fun we have that some others don't. While 80% of our members may be useless, I'd say about 75% of the good ones were on that post disagreeing w/ Gladhatter.

I'm sorry you were wronged and I'm more sorry that you were insulted by a mod. I'm also sorry that you stood up for the inaccurate ramblings of a rabble rouser. I sincerely hope that you chose not to leave the board as your presence is appreciated. I wouldn't blame you - but I'd hate to see it happen over this guy.

Mark

[HippoSleek]

To add to my previous post, I just took a peek at glad's profile:

According to this, he has created a huge controversy in less than a week's worth of membership. He also lists his cars as two sil-80s (after telling us all that he owned a Silvia). And he's 50 years old. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

[ruf]

mrmephistopheles - Thanks for your professional response. I did lose my temper and resorted to name-calling, but I was simply stupified for 6 days while everyone continued to dog him while he constantly apologized and tried to reword his intent. Guess it built up and got to me. Anyways, I do agree with everything you've said. I know the mods and admins do as much as they can and I've tried to do my share of helping out, but it's ultimately the majority of the member base that determines the environment. In no way do I blame the mods for the current state of affairs.

[ruf]

HippoSleek - thank you for your compliments. I guess I didn't look into the subject matter all that deeply. I try not to pay attention to posts about badging, so perhaps I didn't have the entire history nor the motivation behind certain people's attitudes. As for what the intent of my original post was, I had 2:

1) In all of my dealings with S-chassis parts from overseas, they never refer to a 180SX as an S13. It is always RPS13 or RS13 regardless of whether it is a mechanical or an appearance piece.

2) Don't pick on people when they're not wrong. If you do, make sure you don't add any misinformation. Maybe I just chose to defend the wrong person. Who knows. It just felt like there was quite a "mob mentality" going on that thread.

Anyways, it's all said and done. I'm not out of here yet, but again my confidence in this forum being anything more than a glorified classifieds section continues to erode.

[Grant]

Originally posted by ruf
In response to this thread... (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22120&perpage=30&pagenumber=2)

Grant - Your inane misquote shows your immaturity. A very surprising response from someone that I'm trying to cut a break on an exhaust system. BTW, if you say blacktop, you SHOULD get an S13 motor. S14 blacktop is redundant.

*Disclaimer: There are a number of Zilvia members whose opinions I value greatly and whose accomplishments I sincerely admire. Ironically, mrmephistopheles is one of them.

Ruf,

You made and ignorant post calling everyone f**king idiots for saying s14 blacktop. I've been asked many times "which blacktop? S13 or S14? ". I may sound redundant but it is ued all the time. I guess these guys are all "F**KING IDIOTS" to you?

I was making a point, I took your harsh words with a grain of salt, and you took my response personally. Please forgive me if I insulted you in anyway. many of the people who posted didn't take the thread that seriously, so neither did I.
I just wanted to make my point, clean and simple. a 180sx and 240sx fastbacks are still s13's. Take for example in europe. all of them were 200sx's. no coupes were avaliable there. so s13 refers to the fastback. S14 motor is nonetheless a blacktop. How redundant it may sound, it still is.

And also, why are you cutting me a break on an exhaust? I never asked for it. I only know about you because Chris and esteban mentioned you. Thanks for the offer, (I am honored), but my exhaust is already on its way from japan.

You can say anything to anyone in person, we are all protected by the first amendment. but calling someone an idiot to his face when you realize that they are not well... go figure.

Some may value my opinions, some may not, doesnt matter to me. I just wanted to say whats on my mind.

Like I said, I apologize for offending you in anyway, but I was trying to get a point across, plain and simple. Please don't take it personally.