Drifting Wheel Set-up

[Zemus]

Is it better to have wider wheels in the front or the back, ive heard both ways. What are you guy's imput on this. Also is it good to have bigger in the back?

[adey]

It depends, AFAIK, on your skill level.
For beginners, wider wheels and tires in front may be preferred, as it will make throwing the rear out easier. However, this is not necessarily preferred if you're doing any other type of hard driving.
For advanced drifters, wider rears or equal widths are more common, as the wider tires allow for more control and faster speeds... or so I understand it.

A good compromise is equal wheel widths, with uneven tires (narrow in back for easier initiation) or even tires with uneven wheel widths (wider in back -- so rears have stretched sidewall for more even break-away) ... but these are just my ramblings. I don't know anything about drift because I can't do it. :p You'd be better off waiting for Dousan or DriftingPanda to see this post. :thumbsup:

[Dousan_PG]

best drift setup..the driver

the wider the tire you go the less traction you have as well (yes it is weird like that)
strech tires is ok too, like 9inch wheels w 215s on it

i use
205/55/15 all around on 15x7.5 fronts and either 15x7 or 15x6.5 rears

i dont go fast enough to break wide ones free, but i am in the market for some 15x8 +0 wheels right now....:)

[coolerow2]

Originally posted by dousan36
the wider the tire you go the less traction you have as well (yes it is weird like that)

uh..no. You're wrong buddy.

[240racer]

Originally posted by coolerow2
uh..no. You're wrong buddy.

ahh, you maybe the most knowledgable drifter in this forum, but an answer like that does not demand respect. If you want to disagree with somebody at least explain yourself. I may not know all that much about drifting, but I know enough not to listen to people who can't say anything but "you're wrong" that's just stupid. If you are just going to post stupid flames/comments like that go somewhere else.

note to mods: if you delete the above post you can delete this too, since then it will not be needed.

[Jeff240sx]

No.. he's not wrong. You'll always have the same ammount of tire section on the ground, but the wider the tire, the less grip it makes.
The tire contact patch, or cross-section, according to Skip Barber Racing School, is about the size of a postcard, with a very, very close to the same area on the ground, no matter what the tire size.
Therefore, the wider the tire goes, the threshold of the grip of the tire is the depth of the cross-section lessens. L1W1=L2W2 basically... L=length and W=width. If you make a tire wider, you lose depth on the tire, and your grip will go down.
I hope that isn't too confusing. It's 2:24 am and I'm really tired.
-Jeff

[adey]

http://www.bridgejumpers.org/cars/danny_240_ssr_mesh.jpg
THESE are real drift wheels. Buy them. :) (If you want them, you CAN have them- they're in FS, I think)

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
No.. he's not wrong. You'll always have the same ammount of tire section on the ground, but the wider the tire, the less grip it makes.
The tire contact patch, or cross-section, according to Skip Barber Racing School, is about the size of a postcard, with a very, very close to the same area on the ground, no matter what the tire size.
Therefore, the wider the tire goes, the threshold of the grip of the tire is the depth of the cross-section lessens. L1W1=L2W2 basically... L=length and W=width. If you make a tire wider, you lose depth on the tire, and your grip will go down.
I hope that isn't too confusing. It's 2:24 am and I'm really tired.
-Jeff

thanks jeff.
yes its true. it is weird, i know, but its true.

please dont say i'm wrong unless you can prove it. i would appreciate that!

[DoriftoSlut]

But Aaron, and Jeff, or whoever, certainly my 245/45/17s grip much more than my 215/45/17's i think that there was a thread on FA.com that showed contact patch is indeed affected by width, etc... I dunno, I know what works, so for me it works, I'm not going to generalize.... who cares?

[Zemus]

Wow thanks for all the awesome imput.

Here is my delema, I have some nice 15x7 wheels and i have 215/50/15 Kumhos on them (nice rubber good price). And my friend has 16x8.5 size rims and im debating if i should get those and put those in the back? He has some expensive 245/45/16 on them, which i will burn up in no time, and its hard to find cheap tires for a 8.5 inch wide wheel.

What should i do?

[DoriftoSlut]

I have 215/45/17 on a 17x9J rim. Put 215/55/16... those will be cheaper than a 245!! 245 is too wide for me... especially for drifting, I mean Koguchi's Green 180 has 500ps and 235/40/18 rear tires on a 18x10.5 rim. 500ps!!! Koguchi!! no way do you need 245's, and I doubt you are making 500ps. Also, Itai is making 520ps with his Hotroad car and he is running 225/40/18 on 18x9.5 rims... he has more power than Koguchi. Ok, basically 245's are not drift tires...

[Zemus]

Are you sure that 215s will clear the beed on an 8.5 inche wide 16 inche tall rim? Cuz i dout they do, if they do, explain

[Dousan_PG]

people put 215s on 9 inch wheels
problem in the US: finding shops WILLING to stretch it and not ruin/destroy the tire

pics for proof:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid45/pf13bb78351ab3f057d5c8b69f35eb995/fcd9a96b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid45/p7ecbfc070f9cbd3dc8dba547c1fdf17a/fcd9a97c.jpg

koguchi's red missle:
17x9 +12 215/40/17
18x10 +12 235/40/18

[DoriftoSlut]

They will fit easier on a 16 vs. my 17's caus ethe sidewall will be taller, allowing for more stretch. a 15x9 wheel could probably fit a 205/55 or 205/60/15 tire. Anyway, what do you want me to explain? 215/45/17 fits on my 17x9's, how WON'T a 215/55/16 fit on a wheel .5 inch narrower and 1 inch shorter? it will be easier. You could possible put on a 205.

[Zemus]

the images are broke, ic, that sounds good though, but would that be a good idea to get those rims, our would it make drifting more difficult

[Dousan_PG]

images arent broke. they are hosted off imagestation, that's why. yeah it sucks, but oh well.


make drifting more difficult? depends on your skill level
difficult to me is not same to you


i would say go same size all around 15"
the width, you can mix and match, just run similar/same tire sizes and that will keep it pretty straightforward and easy for learning

[DoriftoSlut]

I like stretched sidewalls, they make turn-in more immediate, and makes the rear end break away easier. Oh well, i just hate sidewall bulge. :rolleyes:

[driftingpanda]

there are lots of mixed opinions about this subject, none of which seem 100% correct to me. not even my opinion makes sense sometimes, but i'll post it anyway. please keep in mind all of this is meant for drifting (or learning how to drift) with a 240, and pretty much nothing else. i don't think oni specified on what information he was looking for, but i figured i could offer my humble (aka retarded) opinion.

for me, i like to run skinnies up front, 195 or 205 max, since our little 240's have relatively high caster angle. with anything bigger than a 205 up front, you may encounter jacking forces and irregularities in contact patch (due to camber change with body roll and caster angle from countersteering). if you have no idea what i'm taking about, then just get what ever is the cheapest. in my opinion, cheap is the way to go when you're learning. stock suspension, crap tires, no engine mods... all you really need is an lsd, some balls, and a wad of cash (saved from buying cheap tires instead of expensive tires) for when you hump that curb.

as for the rear, usually a larger width means a larger contact patch, and larger contact patch means more pressure surface. the increase in surface area will reduce the pressure force per unit area, which will prevent your tires from "pushing down" on the road as hard. (picture sliding a book on carpet on its face, versus dragging it on its corner.) wide tires in the back is generally good for drifting with crap tires on dusty tracks or at parking lot events. width is also an advantage in terms of tread wear, since wider tread means more rubber to burn, it would give you more runs per tire, which ultimately saves you a wad of cash so you can go fix that bent control arm of yours. if you run grippy tires, however, the threshold for surface area increases, and drifting might be a little more unpredictable unless you have 400hp or them crazy japanese-style stretched sidewalls.

in summary, i like crappy used tires. dousan's fm901's can eat my tire chunks. :D

by the way that black s13 adey posted is a nasty looking car... but them meshies are totally a-dori-able! they're totally the perfect size and offset for drifting! someone should buy them! :p

danny

[coolerow2]

240racer-"uh..no, you're wrong too, buddy!"

jeff240-"uh..no, you're wrong also, my friend!"

dousan36-"uh..no, you're totally wrong this second time around!"

heh. j/m. i'm TOTALLY WRONG in the WRONGEST way a WRONG person came ever be WRONG! did i say something wrong?


and i'm using 195s for my 15x10s!!!!!!!! just look!

[Zemus]

Thank you very much Driftpanda, and everyone, you have really helped me.

Also all of you want to know my drifting level, well i have been doing it for a while. I can do those lil 90 degre drifts with NO problem, which arent hard, and i can do long drifts, and go totaly sideways and recover, like in a 1/8 miles turn, and i know how to apex. I also can do some heel toe, but im slowly learning. One thing that has helped me learn to drift was Snowy Roads, it helped me get to know my car better. So on a Scale of 1-10 (10 Being Drifter X, aka My Hero, and 1 Being Joe N00b) I would say im a 4, and would say im doing rather decent for a totaly stock car, but drifting has more to do with skill than car. I have done some bad stuff to my car (curb hater right here) I have broke 2 Tention Rods and 1 controll arm, luckly my friend bought an SR front clip and gave me his parts, so i only had to buy one Tention Rod, I know how it is.

Now guys, another questoin, what would you guys think would be the next mod for me.

(Note: I have Rims 15x7 215/50/15 Which work great, exhaust and thats it, i dont think i need performance, cuz i havent had a problem drifting with the power i have.)

[elevator]

Yes the strtched tires do work well, but imho they look horrible. I generally don't use the same for the track as the street. Fortunately the drift circuit here has tires available to rent! Can you imagine that? They are mounted and all you have to do is pay a few hundred yen and put them on for the day. Saves a lot of wear and tear on your good stuff!

[driftingpanda]

the most important mod of all... LSD! can't afford it you say? sell everything! even your windshield, just get an LSD! by the way, if you want a nice used nismo 2way clutch type one... i might consider selling mine... so i can get a nismo SSS unit. :D

driftheaven has another used s13 nismo 2way lsd as well, i think. might want to do a search for it.

happy dori,
danny

[SRskillaDET]

does stretching a tire hurt performance in non-drifting applications? i'm trying to decide whether to buy 17x8 or 17x9 in rims. i have 2 sets of bridgestone potenza re040 215/45/17 sitting in my garage that i got for cheap. i dont drift often but the 17x9s are only $40 more per set than the 17x8s. i may want to upgrade tires down the road, so thats where the 9s would be helpful. What should i do!? any input is greatly appreciated.

[Zemus]

Yea i have been told by many to get LSD, but i get mixed oppinons. Some say go for the J30 LSD, then some say screw it and get an aftermarket one. What is your imput

[kanekz]

Originally posted by driftingpanda
.... for when you hump that curb.

....which ultimately saves you a wad of cash so you can go fix that bent control arm of yours.
:p

danny

Danny, Danny....that was supposed to be a SECRET!! hahaha j/p :D Hey its Mike. So many opinion replys..not sure who is right anymore. Anways, let me know if you find out about a S14 2way. Maybe if you here anything or if Charles might have one or anyone else. PM or email me at [email protected] I will be seeking more advice and questions when my debut become more apparent...just warning you :p

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by SRskillaDET
does stretching a tire hurt performance in non-drifting applications? i'm trying to decide whether to buy 17x8 or 17x9 in rims. i have 2 sets of bridgestone potenza re040 215/45/17 sitting in my garage that i got for cheap. i dont drift often but the 17x9s are only $40 more per set than the 17x8s. i may want to upgrade tires down the road, so thats where the 9s would be helpful. What should i do!? any input is greatly appreciated.

You should get my tires! 245/45/17 Bridestone Potenza RE010. if you want, we can "swap" even, i will always be in need of 215's... hehe

Stretched sidewalls will make your car more responsive. But there is a smaller "buffer zone" so to speak, where a normal sidewall may flex before it breaks loose... Therfore, the quick responsiveness is Goooood for drifting...heheh.

my tires: 97% new, over $200 retail per tire, I will sell all 4 for $400.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by Oni
Yea i have been told by many to get LSD, but i get mixed oppinons. Some say go for the J30 LSD, then some say screw it and get an aftermarket one. What is your imput


AFTERMARKET if you are SERIOUS. i've tried both VLSD and 2 way aftermarket.

2 way with NO DOUBT. its worth every penny. but if you are semi-into it, go vlsd and save the money

[Zemus]

Originally posted by dousan36
AFTERMARKET if you are SERIOUS. i've tried both VLSD and 2 way aftermarket.

2 way with NO DOUBT. its worth every penny. but if you are semi-into it, go vlsd and save the money


Im way into it, so i guess i will start saving for LSD. Its seems like the best choice for me. How much are your guy's used ones, i think what i want is a 2 way

[Dousan_PG]

go Kaaz or Nismo or Tomei LSD

(that's order from cheapest to most expensive). nismo is great cuz you can get it as a kit with EVERYTHING (Side shafts, gasket, oil, etc). jspec carries it occassionaly
tomei is very expensive, not sure why (probably around same cost as Nismo)
kaaz is good for USA Support. sometimes you can find them near 500, but usually around 7-800 on average.

just make sure you get clutch LSD. more agressive then mechanical.

[Zemus]

I know how LSD works and all, but when will i notice, like in the middle of the drift? Im not a huge n00b, i just lack knowladge about LSD, seeing as i dont have one.

[Dousan_PG]

going from open diff to LSD. you'll notice it throughout the ENTIRE drift.
from initiation to completion.
you'll have a lot more control over your car's response to the throttle as well.
all in all, you'll see why a LSD is so vital to drifting.

[DoriftoSlut]

Originally posted by Oni
I know how LSD works and all, but when will i notice, like in the middle of the drift? Im not a huge n00b, i just lack knowladge about LSD, seeing as i dont have one.

it will owrk whenever you are braking or more importantly, on the throttle a significant amount. Here... this was my post on FreshAlloy:

"Overpower the clutches BJones? Hmm... not from what i gather. the activation of the clutches is controlled by a pinions in between the pressure rings. The space the pinion fits between them is tapered. This taper on either side of the pinion determines 2-, 1.5-, or 1-way LSDs. 1 way has only 1 side of the pressure rigs tapered, 1.5 has less higher taper angle on one side (making it harder to lock), and 2-way has the same pressure ring taper on either side of the pinion. Under acceleration the pinion moves along the tpaer. The further it moves, the more the pressure rings get moved outward, thus the more locking the LSD has. When the taper is a lesser angle (\as in acceleration taper) it is easier to lock. Now, when it is no taper, the movement of the pin can't spread the pressure rings apart to lock the plates, that is 1 way. 1.5 way has a high angle of taper for deceleration, so that the pinion has to work harder and thus take longer to spread the pressure rings.

The time when the rings are not spread apart is when the pinion doesn't move back or forth, ie. off throttle. Acceleration will move the pinion as will braking, so no lock on the LSD is during a mellow, off-throttle smooth turn, or extreme low speeds on the throttle (or brakes), ie parallel parking and/or parking lot navigation.

Nothing to do with "powering over" the clutches. That would beimpossible because the more power you have, the more the pinion will move, and the more lock you will get. So WOT at full torque would just lock up the diff like it would at any other acceleration point (assuming it is enough acceleration to overcome the pinion's inertia to stay still). "

-lates
:)

[Foxcolt]

Kudos everyone. It's rare that a drifting post is informative and doesn't turn into a flame war.

My opinons.

LSD is a must. Whether it's a VLSD (which I have) or aftermarket (which i plan on getting).

You'll notice with an open diff that it's real easy to spin out/ lose momentum. When you get a lsd you'll find it's much easier to intiate, keep and control your drift. Like night and day:D

Back to tires. I just recently got a set of 16X8.5's to use as drift wheels. What tire size would you guys recommend? Also how hard is it to find shops that will stretch your tires on the car? Is it that big of a deal?

Keep it sidewayz:p

Jed

[ny_jee]

Originally posted by dousan36
go Kaaz or Nismo or Tomei LSD

(that's order from cheapest to most expensive). nismo is great cuz you can get it as a kit with EVERYTHING (Side shafts, gasket, oil, etc). jspec carries it occassionaly
tomei is very expensive, not sure why (probably around same cost as Nismo)
kaaz is good for USA Support. sometimes you can find them near 500, but usually around 7-800 on average.

just make sure you get clutch LSD. more agressive then mechanical.


From what I have heard, Tomei claims their LSD make less chatter than that of Kaaz and Cusco. Being that it is also clutch type LSD, less chatter probably implies a better quality. I may be wrong on this, but that may be why Tomei cost more.

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by ny_jee
From what I have heard, Tomei claims their LSD make less chatter than that of Kaaz and Cusco. Being that it is also clutch type LSD, less chatter probably implies a better quality. I may be wrong on this, but that may be why Tomei cost more.


i got tomei info..but its in japanese. i'll find out why it costs more. hmm

[ny_jee]

Originally posted by Oni
I know how LSD works and all, but when will i notice, like in the middle of the drift? Im not a huge n00b, i just lack knowladge about LSD, seeing as i dont have one.


Since you don't already have a LSD of any sort, I'd suggest saving up for one of the ones mentioned by dousan. I started out on a open diff, couldn't wait to get a LSD and settled for VLSD. I feel that it's a step that you can do w/o... I've improved since my first drift event, and NOW I understand why some ppl claim that VLSD doesn't really consititute as a TRUE LSD. It still does the job, but it's reaction's kinda slow. When you really want to push it, you sorta have to anticipate when it's going to break loose(not as unpredictable as open diff, but almost...). So IMO, save up all you can and go w/ high end LSD's.

PS: If I can start all over... 2 tone s13 w/ LSD plus a nardi, that's it....

[ruf]

Tomei is a 10-plate diff and uses different material in the clutch plates.

[s14slide]

very helpful indeed, thanks to all for the helpful info. Learned a bit in this thread. Maybe even FAQ worthy for all the noobs like me.

[Zemus]

WOW, thank you so much for all of this helpful info, i feal that everyone who has contributed has helped alot of us learn some very valuble info. I apreciate that all of you spent so much time helping me. Thanks Again! :) Anyone who knows of a good website to find a good 2 Way LSD, feal free to post em up here.

[ny_jee]

I am a bit bias'ed, so.....

phase2motortrend.com, jspec.com and enjuku are places that I've dealt w/ and am very happy w/. However, wait for dousan's reply, he might know of someone that are selling used ones.

[Dousan_PG]

hmm
i'd say jspec cuz sam's da biggity bomb
used ones, just keep an eye out, driftheaven has some here and there sometimes

i'm selling mine in a FEW MONTHS (already have buyers asking about it) 2 waymechanical LSD. anywyas, i'm going Nismo SSS. ruf convinced me. sucker is HARSH but grips like a mofo.

anyways.
i'd say jspec.
or kaaz directly

[Zemus]

what is driftheaven's web address?

[Dousan_PG]

do a search on his name, he jumps on the forum here and there. good guy.