Compressed air instead of fuel?

[Addicted2Kouki]

I was online and came across this video.
An engine built to run completely on compressed air.
No combustion.

YouTube - A car that runs 200 miles on compressed air. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztFDqcu8oJ4)
Seems plausible.


Discuss.

Sorry if its a repost, but I didnt see any other about this.

[P_856]

damn seems like a good idea i wonder if it actually works

[ryguy]

Tata is making compressed air cars in India right now but theres no way they'd pass U.S. crash test standards. Plus, you gotta compress that air somehow, so its not really saving any energy. That video saying it costs $0.00 to fill the tank is bullshit, air compressors use a hell of a lot of electricity.

Plus a top speed of 60mph? Americans will never buy that.

*edit* after watching the end of that video I want to rage, that idiot commentator with his "air compressor that runs on compressed air" bullshit. The original compressed air has to some from somewhere

[spikNspan]

well you would only need enough air to start up the engine initially, once it's going it would be able to charge back up the tanks on its own power.

so basically, you never would have to refill it except for the first time the tanks are filled and put into the vehicle.

[Addicted2Kouki]

Tata is making compressed air cars in India right now but theres no way they'd pass U.S. crash test standards. Plus, you gotta compress that air somehow, so its not really saving any energy. That video saying it costs $0.00 to fill the tank is bullshit, air compressors use a hell of a lot of electricity.

Plus a top speed of 60mph? Americans will never buy that.

*edit* after watching the end of that video I want to rage, that idiot commentator with his "air compressor that runs on compressed air" bullshit. The original compressed air has to some from somewhere

Those are the kinda things I thought about too.
What would happen in a crash?

Yeah it takes electricity to fill an air compressor and electricity = money.
but I would think its cheaper than gasoline.

Top speed of 60mph isnt bad.
Tell that to people that own smart cars.
Their top speed is only 80 mph.
I've seen so many around here in socal already.

and yeah the original compressed air does need to come from somewhere.. but atleast you would never have to refill it again... EVER.

well you would only need enough air to start up the engine initially, once it's going it would be able to charge back up the tanks on its own power.

so basically, you never would have to refill it except for the first time the tanks are filled and put into the vehicle.

pretty much.

[Pank]

well you would only need enough air to start up the engine initially, once it's going it would be able to charge back up the tanks on its own power.

so basically, you never would have to refill it except for the first time the tanks are filled and put into the vehicle.

except that perpetual motion machines are physically impossible, due to wind resistance, electrical resistance and friction.

so no, that wouldnt work.

[kdashy]

well you would only need enough air to start up the engine initially, once it's going it would be able to charge back up the tanks on its own power.

so basically, you never would have to refill it except for the first time the tanks are filled and put into the vehicle.

You mean something that breaks the law of conservation of energy?


I see.

[spikNspan]

ummm did you not watch it, the fuckin compressor would be powered by the engine and the compressor would charge the tanks back up so the engine could keep running. the air isn't recharging itself, it's powering another device which recharges the tanks that allow it to recharge.

also I was thinking once the vehicle is in motion the rotation of the wheels could be turned into energy used to power the compressor to recharge the tanks.

[SoguRacing]

this was on the history channel "modern marvels" about 1 month ago. good stuff.

[boske]

How much air do these motors use? An air tool can drain a couple large air tanks in a few minutes without a compressor running off electric, which isn't very efficient to begin with. As much as I like air motors for their power and reliability, they waste a lot of energy using compressed air. If your using electric to compress air your wasting energy, so I call BS.

[B Love]

You guys act like this car will be plugged into a wall usuing electricity. The alternator would be recharging the battery that the compressor will run of off. so it will constantly have compressed air at its disposal

[boske]

You guys act like this car will be plugged into a wall usuing electricity. The alternator would be recharging the battery that the compressor will run of off. so it will constantly have compressed air at its disposal

I really hope that isn't their idea. It doesn't matter if its plugged into a wall or an alternator on the motor, using electric to compress air is wasting energy. You would be better off running the car itself on an electric motor instead of a compressor, but electric cars are nothing new and these guys have the new answer right :)

[B Love]

I really hope that isn't their idea. It doesn't matter if its plugged into a wall or an alternator on the motor, using electric to compress air is wasting energy. You would be better off running the car itself on an electric motor instead of a compressor, but electric cars are nothing new and these guys have the new answer right :)


Its most likely cheaper and easier to maintain than and electric car. also alot of the technology for batteries used in electric cars is copyrighted. So alot of small eco friendly car companies cant use those batteries even if the could afford the outrageous cost

[Pank]

ummm did you not watch it, the fuckin compressor would be powered by the engine and the compressor would charge the tanks back up so the engine could keep running. the air isn't recharging itself, it's powering another device which recharges the tanks that allow it to recharge.

also I was thinking once the vehicle is in motion the rotation of the wheels could be turned into energy used to power the compressor to recharge the tanks.

umm, you're still a moron, thats still breaking the laws of physics.

[allntrlundrgrnd]

this actually isnt "new" technology, its been around for a couple years.

its just theres no way the cars would pass safety tests due to the very fragile construction. I think it would be awesome for like cities and whatnot, the engines actually cool the air

[!Zar!]

Only poor people worry about gas and such.

8mpg for life.

[RIMTUCK]

__________

[luftrofl]

Hooray for the perpetual motion machine! Hooray for people who don't really understand physics! Yay!

You guys act like this car will be plugged into a wall usuing electricity. The alternator would be recharging the battery that the compressor will run of off. so it will constantly have compressed air at its disposal

ummm did you not watch it, the fuckin compressor would be powered by the engine and the compressor would charge the tanks back up so the engine could keep running. the air isn't recharging itself, it's powering another device which recharges the tanks that allow it to recharge.

also I was thinking once the vehicle is in motion the rotation of the wheels could be turned into energy used to power the compressor to recharge the tanks.

[mRclARK1]

well you would only need enough air to start up the engine initially, once it's going it would be able to charge back up the tanks on its own power.

so basically, you never would have to refill it except for the first time the tanks are filled and put into the vehicle.

except that perpetual motion machines are physically impossible, due to wind resistance, electrical resistance and friction.

so no, that wouldnt work.

You mean something that breaks the law of conservation of energy?


I see.

Hooray for the perpetual motion machine! Hooray for people who don't really understand physics! Yay!

:rofl:

Physics is for chumps remember?

[SexPanda]

Not a bad idea in theory. Juct give it a few years to get the technology a little more advanced. Imagine a high efficiency solar panal on the roof running a compressor to charge the tanks. 500+ miles on a full tank, then when you get home, plug it into your wall socket to completely charge the tank.

And if your wall sockets power comes from solar power or wind power, damn your set!

Only thing is... If you've ever been near an air compressor, those things are LOUD.

[Future240]

Wow, you get pretty good gas mileage! ... what's your secret?

The extra gas from his car comes from dead babies, shhhh dont tell anyone


Oh and air car, hm maybe in 15 years, cuz right now, eh 60mph doesnt even meet highway legal speeds, so it would be a no go for most of america, however make that lil bitch go 80-110, keep it small and unattractive, convince people it beats the shit out of gas and electric cars when it comes to saving the planet, give a hellascious price that makes sure only richy fucks who think the new cool is pretending to care about the environment can afford it and it will sell like hell.

[murda-c]

I used an orphan.

[B Love]

Hooray for the perpetual motion machine! Hooray for people who don't really understand physics! Yay!

Ok Mr. Automotive physics major explain to me the downfalls of this system?

[RIMTUCK]

__________

[Pank]

Ok Mr. Automotive physics major explain to me the downfalls of this system?

Well the major downfall would be that it wouldnt work at all

[murda-c]

Iunno a bunch of engineers at Tata motors seem to think it's worth investing in.

[Matej]

I'm going to break the laws of physics by putting a hydroelectric mill in a pond and it would also power a pump that keeps dumping water on the wheel forever and ever and ever.

[B Love]

Well the major downfall would be that it wouldnt work at all

Really because Im pretty sure it shows a car and a motor working in the video. A small compressor being powered by the battery can constantly refill the air tanks. So explain to me what would stop this idea from working?

[murda-c]

Really because Im pretty sure it shows a car and a motor working in the video. A small compressor being powered by the battery can constantly refill the air tanks. So explain to me what would stop this idea from working?

Well that is less effiecent than just having the compressor motor directly connected to the drivetrain.

[B Love]

Well that is less effiecent than just having the compressor motor directly connected to the drivetrain.

If that were the case it would be an ELECTRIC car. And you will need more current in order to create enough power to turn the axles or driveshaft or whatever parts of the drivetrain you are trying to turn. This would need alot more higher powered batteries, also these batteries would need to recharge. So in all actuality it is more efficient cost and time wise

[turtl631]

WOW.

WOW.

Physics is 2007. Air is more efficient!

[B Love]

WOW.

WOW.

Physics is 2007. Air is more efficient!

You feel pretty good huh, Love how people cannot explain there statements. oh physics its physics. Because Im pretty sure the people who built that thing couldnt be as smart as you right?

[ryguy]

If that were the case it would be an ELECTRIC car. And you will need more current in order to create enough power to turn the axles or driveshaft or whatever parts of the drivetrain you are trying to turn. This would need alot more higher powered batteries, also these batteries would need to recharge. So in all actuality it is more efficient cost and time wise

No, it would be more efficient to just use the electric motor to run the car. It's going to take the same energy to fill the tanks and in turn use that air to turn the engine as it would take to just run the car off the electric motor. That energy to move the car is just being moved from one potential energy source to another. Sure, the compressed air can "store up" a lot more potential energy at what I would imagine would be less cost to turn into motion, but it's going to use the same energy to get from point A to point B regardless. I cant understand how anybody would think you only have to fill the first tank once because "the air powered compressor would compress the air tank." What a stupid idea, that's basically just moving the air (energy) from one tank to another with no gain whatsoever.

[B Love]

No, it would be more efficient to just use the electric motor to run the car. It's going to take the same energy to fill the tanks and in turn use that air to turn the engine as it would take to just run the car off the electric motor. That energy to move the car is just being moved from one potential energy source to another. Sure, the compressed air can "store up" a lot more potential energy at what I would imagine would be less cost to turn into motion, but it's going to use the same energy to get from point A to point B regardless. I cant understand how anybody would think you only have to fill the first tank once because "the air powered compressor would compress the air tank." What a stupid idea, that's basically just moving the air (energy) from one tank to another with no gain whatsoever.

How many electic cars have you serviced? Im going to guess none because if you ever have you would understand the amount of electricity it takes to comepletely power a car. It takes alot less battery power to run a small compresser than it does to run a whole vehicle. I never said anything about filling the first tank once but if there is more than one tank that is essentially correct, the air in one tank can be used to run the engine while another tank is being charged off of the motion on that engine. The whole purpose of this car is that it takes less money and its using a resource that is free. Have you ever seen the price tag on replacing electic car battery cells? Its extremely high, its not just one big batter its alot of small ones that take up alot of space.

[turtl631]

You don't just get energy for free. To keep a car moving you have to overcome frictional losses from the tires as well as air. To generate energy to compress air, you have to take it from the moving car. You'd be converting kinetic energy into potential energy of a sort. The point is, you don't do anything for free, and each step has losses from friction (heat). So no, you can't just fill your car with compressed air and drive off at 30mph, turning an alternator to power a compressor that compresses more air to keep you moving.

[turtl631]

Post 666 for me - everyone who wants a physics free lunch can go to hell!

[B Love]

and how anybody would think you only have to fill the first tank once because "the air powered compressor would compress the air tank." What a stupid idea

Im not sure if you understand how a car works. But the compressor isnt powered by air it is electric, electricity comes from the battery, the battery is being recharged by the alternator, the pully on the alternator is being turned by the motor? Get it?

[B Love]

You don't just get energy for free. To keep a car moving you have to overcome frictional losses from the tires as well as air. To generate energy to compress air, you have to take it from the moving car. You'd be converting kinetic energy into potential energy of a sort. The point is, you don't do anything for free, and each step has losses from friction (heat). So no, you can't just fill your car with compressed air and drive off at 30mph, turning an alternator to power a compressor that compresses more air to keep you moving.

Of course it wont be able to just start from nothing that why it needs to have a tank full of air already this will start the motor and it can use the air from that tank to get the process started. How can you say there is no way when you see the car actually moving

[neverrain]

Only poor people worry about gas and such.

8mpg for life.

lol you crack me up. I was reading the thread all serious like and you come outta nowhere with the lulz. It's like being kicked in the balls for no reason.

[turtl631]

I just read up on this for a few minutes and you guys are going way beyond what even the inventors are claiming. The farthest an air powered car has traveled is 7.2 km. The goal is 200 km.

You can't use an air motor to power a compressor that will compress enough air to sustain a constant speed. Think about it- that initial filled air tank has a certain amount of energy in it. Some of this is used to turn the motor, while some will be wasted (internal friction, for one). Then, some of THAT energy will be used to keep the car moving against air resistance and rolling resistance, while some will (in your plan) turn an alternator to generate electricity. Energy will be lost in the alternator, and energy will be lost once you run a compressor with it. Sure, you'd be able to compress some air with a scheme like this, but I really doubt it would significantly add to the range. The added weight would also reduce the benefit.

How can you say there is no way when you see the car actually moving
You believe everything you see on youtube? I can claim I'm using condensed strange quarks to power my car and push it down the street, then take video to prove it. Will you invest in my company, Quarkcars?

[murda-c]

irt b love

Having a battery powered electric motor to compress air to turn an engine which moves both the car and the alternator which charges the battery makes sense to you?

It's a compressed air tank supplemented by a flexible internal combustion engine for when you run out of air.

What would be cool is a valve system that allowed regenerative braking - have the exhaust air be captured...but since i doubt it would get near 4500 psi i don't think it would work without a separate compressor with a higher compression ratio, which would add weight and complexity you don't need in a car like this.

[turtl631]

O Pipe (Single Exhaust) - $89.95 : KaleCoAuto, Hard to find automotive items! (http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3)

[turtl631]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/11/dei.jpg

[boske]

This thread is killing me. For whoever was talking about only needing enough electric to run a small compressor, instead of a large electric car motor, your wrong.

The size of the electric compressor motor you would have to have would be LARGER than the size of an electric car motor. This is because using electric to compress air is LESS EFFICIENT than using electric to power the car. You are wasting tons of energy, not even just a little wee bit. I can't even imagine this kind of car working because of the massive amount of air flow it would need (500 gallon tanks would likely be drained almost instantly) but to be efficient it would have to compress air without electric being involved, maybe some type of turbo or supercharger to refill the tanks? If you could get something like this to work it would end up being more of a toy than an energy saver I'm sure. I wonder what a car like this could do full throttle with some 4500psi nitrogen tanks :)

[luftrofl]

Simply put, perpetual motion, is impossible.

Machines cannot be 100% efficient. This is because friction causes energy to be converted into heat and effectively lost from the system. To make this explicit: this loss of energy, no matter how small, will ultimately drain all of the energy from the system and cause it to stop unless extra energy is added.

Keep in mind that I'm not knocking the idea of a car that runs on compressed air. Personally, I think that it seems like a good, cheap, low-tech way to get around.

The thought that you could somehow make this into a perpetual motion machine, however, is naive and stupid.

Sorry for not explaining this in detail previously. I should've known that someone arguing that a perpetual motion machine knew nothing about physics. :-/

Ok Mr. Automotive physics major explain to me the downfalls of this system?

Really because Im pretty sure it shows a car and a motor working in the video. A small compressor being powered by the battery can constantly refill the air tanks. So explain to me what would stop this idea from working?

You feel pretty good huh, Love how people cannot explain there statements. oh physics its physics. Because Im pretty sure the people who built that thing couldnt be as smart as you right?

[BustedS13]

jesus fucking christ

Perpetual motion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion)

crack a book, seriously.

[B Love]

How about your head.

[theicecreamdan]

while we're at it.

Conservation of energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy)

[B Love]

While were at it Fuck You - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck_You)

[SmogSUX]

Bleh I dun wanna read all the replies..but like few have said you can't have a perpetual energy car like that. The compressed air can't power the motor that powers a compressor that fills the tanks and makes the car run forever. It's impossible. Like other people have said there is wind resistance blah blah blah....either way though if it really does take 3 minutes to fill the tanks to go 200 miles that is a fraction of the cost of gas. The amount of electricity that my compressor uses in 10 minutes doesn't even come close to 8 gallons of gas. (I figure 200 miles/25 miles per gallon)...hell even if I had a car that got 50 mpg meaning 4 gallons of fuel. My compressor doesn't cost that much.

It's an interesting idea...I'd like to look at one of these cars..I don't see how they can travel 200 miles in a trip before needing to repressurize.

EDIT: And yeah lol whoever said you're just moving the energy from one tank to another was correct. You can't get something from nothing. THOUGH they could have the motor running a small compressor that does fill another tank, BUT it wouldn't put out enough air to completely make the car never need air again, it would just make the range better. It's similar to EV's regenerative braking or w/e it's called where the braking even stores some energy for the car. It doesn't make the car go forever though..

[ESmorz]

Fluid Karma

ohhhh yeah