R32 Full Brake Conversion w/ Working eBrake Done, Itchy Questions

[dongoesby]

So after search and research, errors and trials, I got the fronts and rear brakes done with 1" Z32 bmc. First impression, the brake pedal feeling is weird. I can only press it approximately half as compare to stock before it can go not further. It can still lock all four wheels @ 50 mph when pressure given.

Some old threads state that it might be due to mulfunctional vacuum in brake booster.
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/149772-hard-brake-pedal-after-z32-upgrade.html

Some say I can adjust the bmc if the disc is constantly rubbing against the pads when free turning.
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/188765-z32-fr-brakes-mc-very-short-pedal-travel.html

Some (importnut) say it is normal for such bmc, which requires pressure instead of leverage to engage braking.
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/86202-300zx-brake-swap-mc-question-those-who-have-swap.html

I have installed the calipers with the bleeders on top, and I'm pretty affirmative that I have bleeded my system good by using clear plastic tubes and a friend to pump the air out. (I'm not too sure about the method of bench, gravity or speedbleeder) However, I have noticed that there are minor air coming out from the bmc, but I was not able to find way to bleed the bmc.

Here is the rundowns:
R32 gtr front and rear calipers
drilled discs
endless cxx pads
SS brake lines
1" Z32 bmc (with middle fitting found in my old stock bmc)
dot 3&4 fluid

PS: I'm using Z32 hubs & ebrake assemply and R33 cables on my S14. The eBrake makes a big metal to metal impact noise when I pull it @ 5mph, is this normal? I have made the ebrake tighter by adjusting the adjustment nut on the handle to full firmness, is there other way I can make the ebrake tighter?

thanks guys.

[joefresh]

you can adjust the ebrake on the star nut on the actual ebrake assembly. use the hole in the rotor to turn the nut with a flathead screwdriver or something and then adjust the slop out of the handle.

what cables are you using?

your pedal sounds similar to mine and im running all the same stuff pretty much. no problems here. gotta figure there is no more flex or give in any of the lines and such. goodluck dude.

[Jtuned_andy]

Well for one you should always bench bleed the master. You run tubes from the outputs back into the reservoir and pump the piston to get the air out.

http://is.rely.net/3-99-7640-l-xTRzU70hmqDG8dZJS0rg.jpg

[racepar1]

Get a z-32 brake booster or a s-14 a/t brake booster. They are dual diaphragm boosters as opposed to the s-13 (all) and s-14 (m/t) single diaphragm boosters. That will make the pedal feel softer.

[xsparc]

I have the 17/16 mc and i noticed the same thing.

try this.. unhook a line, try to press the pedel to the floor, i bet you will be able to. that will prove there is nothing stoping your mc from moving. what is stoping it is a build up of pressure... thats what is supposed to happen. If you dont like it you can always go down to a 15/16 mc. that will give you more travel.

oh and do what jtuned said.... helps alot.

[alkemyst]

as far as the disc pads rubbing the rotors there is no adjustment. It should not be happening once you have done a 'real stop' once or twice.

when installing new pads rubbing is fine until you get to drive it and then they retract properly.

Make sure you didn't get sold 26mm calipers expecting 30mm or 30mm calipers expecting 32mm.

Alot of GTR brakes being sold are not as described.

I was supposed to receive 32mm calipers with my set and instead got R33 GTST brakes (the larger rotors like the GTR but the 30mm caliper). Also I was told my rotors were going to be 'perfect' and ready to mount. The rears were less than spec from the start and all four would have required turning to be right. Fortunately the fronts were still in spec. I got them sent to me in a 24x24x24 box just all thrown together with no padding or support. Freaking idiots.

It's still a great setup, but it's going to be harder and more expensive to buy front rotors when it comes time again.

[dongoesby]

first of all, thanks for all the constructive answers!

I've been driving the car for a while, and it seems fine except i need more effort to step on the brake than before, but the braking power is noticebly more powerful than before.

I guess I will try bench bleed the brake master cylinder first, in that case, I will also have to bleed the whole system all over again since the bmc output lines will have to be disconnected to perform the bmc bench bleed. As for the brake booster, the guide from "importnut" said it is not neccessary, but i will see if the bmc bench bleed does no help.

try this.. unhook a line, try to press the pedel to the floor, i bet you will be able to. that will prove there is nothing stoping your mc from moving. what is stoping it is a build up of pressure... thats what is supposed to happen. If you dont like it you can always go down to a 15/16 mc. that will give you more travel.

I noticed the same thing. The pedal was able to fully press when there is still air inside the system. Once air is pumped out, the pedal gets firmer and higher to press.

As far as the caliper, it is 32mm. I know it is 32mm because I'm selling 30mm gtst brakes too :)
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/DSC02542.jpg

PS: as for the ebrake, I believe that I have already tightened the "star nut" in the ebrake assemply. It should be one in far behind in the picture below, correct? I have already adjusted it to full lock when the rotor is off. Any other idea to make the ebrake tighter? And I'm using R33 ebrake cable.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/DSC02563.jpg

[joefresh]

when i installed my z32 drum ebrake i set the shoes to just barely barely drag on the inside of the rotor. after that there was still some play in the ebrake lever before it would engage, that i adjusted out with the nut on the lever. my ebrake locks up crazy fast with pulling it up maybe 3" its great.

[alkemyst]

pedal pressure will be 'harder' than stock even with the better master. This is normal.

Going to an upgraded booster can fix this, but IMHO you get used to it and it makes it easier to modulate.

[dongoesby]

when i installed my z32 drum ebrake i set the shoes to just barely barely drag on the inside of the rotor. after that there was still some play in the ebrake lever before it would engage, that i adjusted out with the nut on the lever. my ebrake locks up crazy fast with pulling it up maybe 3" its great.

The star nut you see in the ebrake assemply is set to full lock now with no threads can be seen, and the nut on the lever is also set to full lock (it almost extend out to hit the center console). Again, I'm using R33 cable. I have to pull so much higher than before to engage the ebrake. Is this happening to you? Also, does yours make a big metal to metal sound when you pull it while going @ approx 5mph??

[alkemyst]

The way you need to adjust this is like the service manual suggests.

First make sure you have the adjuster on correct. the larger of the two halves is the front. Looking at it from the front, the adjuster return direction is too the left.

Once its on, you would push from the outside 'hole' in the rotor at the top of the adjuster and back to tighten the shoes against the 'drum'. Once it locks and you can't turn it more, back it off 5-6 notches and verify the wheel spins freely. This has to be done on both sides obviously.

At the handle you basically tighten it enough so the rear wheels lock at the desired 'clicks' you want and are not rubbing when the handle is put down.

There is a R32 manual floating around the internet...everyone doing this swap should get a copy (a Z32 manual would also work).

In the R32 manual the adjustment is on page CH-255 and the R&R is following it.

[joefresh]

it sounds like there is an insane amount of slack in the ebrake cables.

are you sure they are r33 cables?

how much pad is remaining on the actual brake shoes themselves?

if im rolling at 5mph and pull the brake it locks up and i dont have a metal to metal sound either. check all your suspension bushings maybe unless the noise is for sure in the brake system.

[alkemyst]

If the cables aren't routed right there could be too much slack, also the R33 cables need to be for the GTST.

[joefresh]

yes i have the R33 gtst cables on my s14 fits like a glove. so easy it hurts.

[alkemyst]

A little trick many don't do is to take the S14 cable and the R33 cable side by side prior to install and transfer the brackets from the S14 over. Then the cables mount exactly the way the original ones did.

[dongoesby]

A little trick many don't do is to take the S14 cable and the R33 cable side by side prior to install and transfer the brackets from the S14 over. Then the cables mount exactly the way the original ones did.

This is exactly what I had done for the conversion. I routed the cable exactly the same as the old S14 cable; however, the S14 bracket is mounted a little off on the R33 cable. The other half of the cable which right after the mounting bracket (connecting to the single handle lever cable) is a little bit tight which I kinda forced the cable in. Does it matter to the ebrake engagement? I have actually went to a local reputable shop to purchase a brand new R33 cable that is vouched by the shop owner which it would work for S14. I compared the new R33 cable with the one attaching to Z32/R32/R33 (not sure) ebrake assemply and found them surprisingly the same.

Here are some pictures:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/DSC02567.jpg
This is the part number of new R33 cable

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/DSC02562.jpg
This is the Z32/R32/R33 (not sure) ebrake assemply

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/DSC02560.jpg
This should be a latter version of Z32 n/a hub without flange

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m148/Dongoesby/DSC02561.jpg
The front pic of the hub. There is no free play when installed on the axle.