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Antihero983
10-14-2008, 08:02 AM
Not just a rumor, they're actually in talks....



Cerberus's role crucial as GM-Chrysler merger talks continue
By Bill Vlasic Published: October 14, 2008

DETROIT: Merger talks are continuing between General Motors and Chrysler as the companies study possible financial terms of a deal that would combine two of the traditional Big Three automakers.

The chief issues under discussion include how much cash Chrysler's owner, Cerberus Capital Management, would contribute to the merged entity and how much stock it would get in return, according to people briefed on the talks.

While the discussions are still considered preliminary, conversations between senior executives at GM and Cerberus have been taking place since the talks first came to light on Friday.

Executives at GM and Cerberus are said to be eager to do a deal, but negotiating a financial structure for the merger could take weeks to complete.

A merger of GM and Chrysler would bring together two automakers that are losing market share and billions of dollars, but they could realize huge savings in the development of vehicles, engines and alternative-fuel technologies.

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Industry experts have been skeptical of the synergies of the combined companies, but investors reacted positively on the first day of trading since news of the merger talks was reported.

GM shares climbed 33.1 percent, to $6.51, on Monday, helping the Dow Jones industrials gain more than 900 points on the day.

The merger talks, which began about a month ago, are focusing closely on the liquidity needed for GM and Chrysler to survive as one company in a dismal automotive environment.

The credit rating agency Standard & Poor's said Monday that it was keeping GM on a negative watch because of concerns about its declining cash reserves.

"We would be skeptical that a GM-Chrysler transaction could easily address our primary concern by resulting in a substantial increase of current liquidity for the parties involved," said Robert Schulz, an S&P analyst.

But people close to the merger talks said that Cerberus had proposed to contribute cash to GM-Chrysler in addition to the estimated $11 billion in reserves that Chrysler has on its books. In return, Cerberus would receive equity in the combined company and become a large shareholder.

Other considerations under discussion include whether GM could restructure its debt to bondholders to free up more cash to finance its operations. GM and Cerberus are also talking about their shared ownership of GMAC Financial Services, the finance arm that provides loans for purchases of GM vehicles.

Cerberus owns 51 percent of GMAC, and GM has a 49 percent stake. As part of a merger deal, GM might contribute some or all of its equity in the finance company to Cerberus.

Neither GM nor Cerberus has commented publicly on the merger talks, which began after similar discussions ended between GM and Ford.

News of the talks has riveted the attention of the auto industry, which is in the midst of its worst sales downturn in the United States in 15 years.

In a letter to employees on Monday, Chrysler's chairman, Robert Nardelli, declined to confirm the GM discussions but said his company was actively exploring deals with other automakers.

"I can tell you that we have approached and have been approached by third parties who are interested in exploring future possibilities with Chrysler," Nardelli wrote. "As the company evaluates strategic options to maximize core operations and leverage its assets, we engage in a dialogue with these parties."

Since Cerberus acquired it a year ago from the German automaker Daimler, Chrysler has aggressively sought deals to develop products with other auto companies. The company has agreed to build pickup trucks for Nissan in exchange for small cars, and is continuing to talk about expanding their relationship, according to people close to those discussions.

At GM, the merger talks with Cerberus are being led by Rick Wagoner, the chairman, and Frederick A. Henderson, the president. The two executives briefed GM's board on the discussions last week, and a special committee of directors was created to monitor the talks.

Analysts predict that as a merged company, GM and Chrysler could ask the United Automobile Workers union for concessions on wages and health care that would shave costs from their combined operations.

"If GM is deemed to be 'saving' Chrysler, GM's leverage with the UAW could rise considerably," said Himanshu Patel of JPMorgan Chase.

GM and Chrysler have been cutting jobs and vehicle production to compensate for falling revenue and market share. So far this year, GM's United States sales have dropped 17.8 percent, while Chrysler's are down 25 percent.

In its latest cutback, GM said Monday that it would cease production of sport utility vehicles at its Janesville, Wisconsin, assembly plant by the end of this year. The company had previously said the factory would close by 2010 because of slumping demand. GM also said it would shut down a metal stamping plant in Grand Rapids, Michigan, by the end of 2009. The two factories together employ about 2,500 hourly workers.

Andrew Ross Sorkin contributed reporting from New York.






Thoughts? Comments? Opinions? Moms?

exitspeed
10-14-2008, 08:14 AM
I don't see this going together.

If it does, it'll be more of platform sharing then anything.

Chrysler needs this more the GM does right now. Chrysler's portfolio is horrendous. They are looking to merge with anyone at this point.

It's bad news for GM. I think this would just be a huge mistake. I can't see ANY benefit to GM at all. it's not like Chrysler has tons of money to throw at GM for their platforms. I just see no benefit at all.

Chrysler minivans = fail.
Sebring/Avenger = Ultra ultra ultra fail.
Jeep = Fail. Plus they already have Hummer they are trying to sell by years end. What good would Jeep do for them.
Chrysler SUV's = Ultra Fail.
Viper...is being sold as a brand so there goes that.
Caliber = Ugly as sin, but a decent vehicle, but not worth a merger.
Nitro = WTFail.

Seriously bad news for GM. Th

DreamN
10-14-2008, 08:35 AM
^ Mel, just summed it up perfectly. If GM were to make this deal it'll be a definite wrong move on their part. They've turned around their products so well in the last recent years and things only look better if they keep going with what they're doing. This merge is completely unnecessary.

Antihero983
10-14-2008, 08:37 AM
but guys.....chrysler HAS A HEMI!

ROFLCOPTER.

exitspeed
10-14-2008, 08:43 AM
but guys.....chrysler HAS A HEMI!

ROFLCOPTER.

A POS Hemi that they are phasing out already...Yea. Weak.

40daws
10-14-2008, 09:20 AM
I agree with it only for the financial side of it only . If GMAC and Chrysler Financial merged.
As far as the cars and trucks and platform sharing. Nope and nope.
They need to par down there own lines, stop making 2-3 copies of the same car across
brand names.

exitspeed
10-14-2008, 09:27 AM
I agree with it only for the financial side of it only . If GMAC and Chrysler Financial merged.
As far as the cars and trucks and platform sharing. Nope and nope.
They need to par down there own lines, stop making 2-3 copies of the same car across
brand names.

And that's what's odd is because BOTH companies have announced recently that they are going to cut down or stop badge engineering all together.

Antihero983
10-14-2008, 09:29 AM
A POS Hemi that they are phasing out already...Yea. Weak.

hehe yeah true dat.

but dude....what about a V10 Corvette? :cj:

exitspeed
10-14-2008, 09:50 AM
hehe yeah true dat.

but dude....what about a V10 Corvette? :cj:

Never gonna happen. The next Vette is going to lightweight, and have a smaller engine. GM already said there is no way they can move forward with a future Vette the way it is currently because of the CAFE regs.

Antihero983
10-14-2008, 09:52 AM
*walks up to mic**

Ahem...is this thing on?
good.


FUCK CAFE AND THEIR GOD DAMNED STANDARDS.


thanks.

shishcabobers
10-14-2008, 09:54 AM
So they are trying to make two negatives a positive? :tardrim:

IIIXziuR
10-14-2008, 09:56 AM
Yeah but I thought GM was doing horrible financial wise?
Chrysler definitely is horrible automaker nowadays though

exitspeed
10-14-2008, 10:15 AM
Yeah but I thought GM was doing horrible financial wise?


They are, but not for a lack of trying or good products. That they have. They just can't sell'em.

Phlip
10-14-2008, 10:28 AM
They are, but not for a lack of trying or good products. That they have. They just can't sell'em.
Yes, whereas Chrysler is screwed in the ass on both fronts, they have a lineup of shitty cars, can't KEEP a partner (Mitsu, Benz both jumped ship or somehow split) and can't sell the shit they have.

MudRacer
10-14-2008, 10:32 AM
Chrysler should just disappear, I doubt anyone will miss em. Those chrysler buyers can just go to GM and call it day.

mRclARK1
10-14-2008, 10:33 AM
I don't see this going together.

If it does, it'll be more of platform sharing then anything.

Chrysler needs this more the GM does right now. Chrysler's portfolio is horrendous. They are looking to merge with anyone at this point.

It's bad news for GM. I think this would just be a huge mistake. I can't see ANY benefit to GM at all. it's not like Chrysler has tons of money to throw at GM for their platforms. I just see no benefit at all.

Chrysler minivans = fail.
Sebring/Avenger = Ultra ultra ultra fail.
Jeep = Fail. Plus they already have Hummer they are trying to sell by years end. What good would Jeep do for them.
Chrysler SUV's = Ultra Fail.
Viper...is being sold as a brand so there goes that.
Caliber = Ugly as sin, but a decent vehicle, but not worth a merger.
Nitro = WTFail.

Seriously bad news for GM. Th

Guess I don't need to post anymore.

Chrysler is bleeding out from the neck in the market, I think this is a last ditch attempt to save the company. If it doesn't happen I'll be expecting bankruptcy claim within the next 2-3 years max... If not sooner.

exitspeed
10-14-2008, 10:53 AM
Chrysler should just disappear, I doubt anyone will miss em. Those chrysler buyers can just go to GM and call it day.

Jeep and Dodge are worth something to someone to sell. Chrysler as a brand can just disintegrate and no one would notice.

Guess I don't need to post anymore.

Chrysler is bleeding out from the neck in the market, I think this is a last ditch attempt to save the company. If it doesn't happen I'll be expecting bankruptcy claim within the next 2-3 years max... If not sooner.

Cerberus is already looking to unload the company. Not a good sign.

The only thing I can see happening is Jeep and Dodge being sold.

God, can you guys imagine that? What that means for our countries history of manufacturing and cars?

These companies being int eh shape they are in is not a good thing. But they made their bed and they must lay it it.

LOL at Ford and Dodge STILL making a big deal out of their new trucks coming out. LEARN YOU FUCKTARDS!

Here's a funny. Chrysler reached out to the public for advice about 6 months ago. Basically you had to write an essay and tell them what you think they should do to get back their former glory. I LAID EVERYTHING out for them. Harshly. I got a response asking me for more info, which I provided. They then turned me down because of my age. They didn't say if I was too old or too young. Fuckin morons. Not saying I could solve any of their problems, but shit I'd give it a shot. lol.

mRclARK1
10-14-2008, 10:58 AM
I live in probably one of the few places where their larger trucks are still going to sell and strictly out of necessity... You NEED a large truck for farm and construction work out here often. The market is much to small though. Chrysler, GM, Ford all need to streamline their product lines, dump models like the Nitro, and Caliber and take some cues from the leading companies in the market right now.

They can, and should continue, to produce the large work oriented trucks they do, but it can't be their focus market by any means now.

exitspeed
10-14-2008, 11:21 AM
I live in probably one of the few places where their larger trucks are still going to sell and strictly out of necessity... You NEED a large truck for farm and construction work out here often. The market is much to small though. Chrysler, GM, Ford all need to streamline their product lines, dump models like the Nitro, and Caliber and take some cues from the leading companies in the market right now.

They can, and should continue, to produce the large work oriented trucks they do, but it can't be their focus market by any means now.

As do I. WI is unofficially the land of trucks and SUV's. So many of my people in my family drive trucks. It's just how it is.

They def. need to continue their full size truck lines, but right now both companies (Ford and Dodge) are focusing their efforts on releasing their new trucks. They need to focus on EV cars, hybrids, small fuel efficient pick-ups, and city cars. I could just go on for days. I'm sure they are all aware of it, but it just doesn't seem like enough. At least GM is saying, "hey world we are releasing a 100mpg EV car in 2010." and focusing damn near all their efforts on it. How much have you actually heard about the Camaro? Not a lot. It was already so far into production when the shit really started hitting the fan that they couldn't scrap the project. I still think it's good it's coming out, but they are right that they are not focusing on it.

mRclARK1
10-14-2008, 04:36 PM
Personally I don't see the new Camaro being a success... Just a hunch. I think to much of the market for the Camaro has been taken by the success of vehicles such as the GT-R, soon to come 370Z etc. that it won't sell with the expectations they have.

lucky7
10-14-2008, 05:08 PM
this would be GM's demise. they would have to be effing crazy to want anything to do with chrysler. IMO ofcourse.

lucky7
10-14-2008, 05:09 PM
Personally I don't see the new Camaro being a success... Just a hunch. I think to much of the market for the Camaro has been taken by the success of vehicles such as the GT-R, soon to come 370Z etc. that it won't sell with the expectations they have.

i think they just went overboard with the car, personally. what happened to putting a badass motor, in a cheap, pile of shit car? i think it will be too expensive for the target market. i suppose time will tell...

ronmcdon
10-14-2008, 06:38 PM
From the way the article reads, it seems more like a GM-Cerebus merger. Cerebus just happens to also own Chrysler. Both, GM and Chrysler are hurting in termns of sales. GM is having credit issues, and they are having trouble with getting $$$ to finance their operations. Cerebus seems to have the capital that GM (and Chrysler) needs.

If this is true, seems like it's Cerebus that will own both companies and offer capital to support both. Might not seem like such a bad idea for GM, if the alternative means going out of business entirely as a result of the credit crunch. the merger might provide additional cost cutting measures for both companies.

personally I don't know how bad GM's financial situation is, but I like the direction they are going towards right now. I'd hate to see a lot of their fun (but arguablly profitable) offerings and projects scrapped due to Cerebus' generally more conservative way of doing business. A lot of Chrysler's projects were scrapped after they had been bought by Cerebus.

Still, this is isn't entirely unpredictable. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford also gets bought up by Cerebus sooner or later. lol, or maybe Cerebus eventually goes belly-up and gets nationalized. I think it's a miracle the big 3 are still in business given the usual obstacles like unions, pensions, emissions laws, cafe, etc.

As for GM products, I don't see how this can be bad unless it means replacing some of their better products with inferior Chrysler alternatives. Other than the extra $$$, I don't see this deal being too beneficial for GM either. But better Cerebus, than say questionable Tata, some ghetto communist china company like Geeling, or boring Toyota. Well...maybe Toyota isn't so bad given the choices.

HalveBlue
10-14-2008, 06:57 PM
No way.

The 'maro is an all-American badge, dude. The loyalty that car, the Corvette, and the Mustang have is unbelievable. The fact that it's going to be retro-styled and the first generation of the vehicle since a production hiatus over the last several years has created huge number of avidly waiting buyers.

If anything the new Camaro will be what gives GM a little more breathing room and the morons on top a little longer in their executive chairs.

Gnnr
10-14-2008, 07:13 PM
Be very afraid if this happens:

In addition to Nissan/Renault, Chrysler has been talking with Tata, Fiat - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/14/in-addition-to-nissan-renault-chrysler-has-been-talking-with-ta/)

Here's a funny. Chrysler reached out to the public for advice about 6 months ago. Basically you had to write an essay and tell them what you think they should do to get back their former glory. I LAID EVERYTHING out for them. Harshly. I got a response asking me for more info, which I provided. They then turned me down because of my age. They didn't say if I was too old or too young. Fuckin morons. Not saying I could solve any of their problems, but shit I'd give it a shot. lol.

Wow, that sucks. What does age have to do with anything if you where telling them the truth and where saying the right things!?

exitspeed
10-14-2008, 08:15 PM
Be very afraid if this happens:

In addition to Nissan/Renault, Chrysler has been talking with Tata, Fiat - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/14/in-addition-to-nissan-renault-chrysler-has-been-talking-with-ta/)



Wow, that sucks. What does age have to do with anything if you where telling them the truth and where saying the right things!?

I wasn't in their demographic is how they put it.

Maybe I wasn't saying the right things ie what they wanted to hear. Who knows. I even emailed them back and said that I think they were missing out on some valuable insight by not including me. lol. :snoop:

Matej
10-14-2008, 08:21 PM
Here's an awesome article on the Sebring.

Jeremy Clarkson Chrysler Sebring Cabriolet 2.7 V6 review | Driving - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article4873574.ece)

98koukile
10-14-2008, 10:06 PM
I think GM should take Jeep and run with it, Make the Ram line a single gas and a diesel offering, thats it. Keep the SRT-4 and Caliber, merge them with the Cobalt and SS

SexPanda
10-14-2008, 10:26 PM
Copied from Wikipedia because I couldnt get the words down quite right... Its been a while since Mythology 101 in highschool...

In Greek mythology, Cerberus or Kerberos (Greek Κέρβερος, Kérberos), the ker or daimon of Erebos was the hound of Hades, a monstrous three-headed dog with a snake for a tail and snakes down his back like a mane, whose analogs in other cultures are hellhounds. Other hell hounds included Orthus, his two-headed brother. Cerberus guarded the gate to Hades and ensured that spirits of the dead could enter, but none could exit. Among his siblings are Chimera and the Hydra. He is the offspring of Echidna and Typhon. In Dante's Inferno, he appears as the guardian of the Circle of Gluttony, and is described as having a beard on each head. Cerberus is often described as once an ordinary pup, when he was mutated and captured by Hades to guard the gates of Tartarus across the river Styx. He has an appetite for live meat/flesh and attacks anyone but spirits. He is Hades's watch-dog.

its a bad thing...

luckvx
10-15-2008, 03:34 AM
whwhat about the charger and the 300 arnt those selling??

TheWolf
10-15-2008, 05:55 AM
chrysler did get a better union contract that GM with less health benifits. Maybe that's part of the incentive. If they buy chrysler they get chryslers employee's and their contract and then they can fire all the GM employees. It's too bad contracts arn't up for renewal this year.

exitspeed
10-15-2008, 08:07 AM
whwhat about the charger and the 300 arnt those selling??

Not like they were. Two cars can't keep a company a float. Unless it's the Camry/Corolla or Accord/Civic.