Hip hop vs rap

[Jeremiel]

Does anyone truly know the difference between Hip Hop music and Rap music? I would like to hear some personal opinions on what most people know about the difference between the two genre said above before I actually post the real difference between the two...


I appreciate y'all opinions..... :snoop:

[Ben G]

hip hop has real beats and rhythm and is about the music rap is a bunch of main stream do what ever you can to make money non sense

[Ben G]

view this thread for reference http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/207236-lil-wayne-vs-nas.html

[Jeremiel]

view this thread for reference http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/207236-lil-wayne-vs-nas.html


lol, yah, i was posting in that thread which lead me to creating this thread because from that thread it doesn't seem like there were many people that understood what the difference of hip hop and rap is... I appreciate your opinion about this, by the way...

[Phlip]

The difference is that there is NOT A FUCKING DIFFERENCE!!!
Look, I love hip hop music, to the point where I AM hip hop music. The fact remains, that "hip hop" is 4 elements - emceeing (rapping), DJing, graffiti, and b-boying (breakdancing).

If you are doing ANY of these, then you are hip hop, no one said you have to do them all. Fact of the matter remains that most of the shit that people are saying "oh, this is hip hop, that's rap" are failing to ATTEMPT to make the discernation, that there is no difference, with things being taken on their face.

Sometime around the mid to late 90's, self-righteous bitter butthurt people decided that since people they felt were beneath them were more successful than them, they would contrive the insult "that ain't hip hop, that's rap," which I felt at the time was the fucking stupidest thing that I had ever seen, heard or read in my life at the time. It took me until the Bush administration for that to be eclipsed, but it is still among the top 10.

What happens, now with the advent of the internet, we have "scene" kids fashioning the same argument as an excuse to pretend they don't like what other people do, but the fact of the matter is that they are themselves sheep to the SAME FUCKING (non) ARGUMENT.

Fact, here, is that the argument is old, stupid, and the result of sandy-vagina bitterness.
Sad fact, here, is that at least 50 people will attempt completely missing this post and spew stupid shit, I will lock this thread before I have been at work for an hour in the morning if at least 10 have not smartly presented something to make me believe anything other than what I typed... "who cares? it all sucks" is not a viable answer and will count against the 10.

[HyperTek]

im currently bumpin outkast - skew it on the bar -b.. damm that track was fire!!
Sounds great still after 10 years , hasnt aged a bit in my books.

I honestly dont like how graffiti fits in with hip hop. did all teh original emcees go tagging?

I would like to see this become a good debate, its just people get offended upon opinions and these threads get closed etc. I recently started a thread about hiphop being dead and i felt i had to close it because alot of people who dont even listen to hiphop *thesquidd* started getting on me and everyone agreeing on his beliefs.

But anyways, opinion really doesnt mean anything, unless you plan to make a change and do your part to contribute to hip hop.. otherwise, me, you, and anyone here who reads this, dont mean anything.

Might wanna throw some threads up on http://www.futureproducers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1 if your interested

[ZX88]

hip hop- 80's and 90's stuff.

[HyperTek]

here you go Jeremiel
Is Hip Hop still "hip" to the youth today?? - Future Producers (http://www.futureproducers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270443)
spit ur ideas

[eli_eli]

i dont listen to either of, but i have, and from my understanding, most hip hop can be considered rap, but some hardcore rap cant really be considered hip hop, or it can, but rap fits it better...right? ex. simple beats and mostly rapping?

[Jeremiel]

The difference is that there is NOT A FUCKING DIFFERENCE!!!
Look, I love hip hop music, to the point where I AM hip hop music. The fact remains, that "hip hop" is 4 elements - emceeing (rapping), DJing, graffiti, and b-boying (breakdancing).

If you are doing ANY of these, then you are hip hop, no one said you have to do them all. Fact of the matter remains that most of the shit that people are saying "oh, this is hip hop, that's rap" are failing to ATTEMPT to make the discernation, that there is no difference, with things being taken on their face.

Sometime around the mid to late 90's, self-righteous bitter butthurt people decided that since people they felt were beneath them were more successful than them, they would contrive the insult "that ain't hip hop, that's rap," which I felt at the time was the fucking stupidest thing that I had ever seen, heard or read in my life at the time. It took me until the Bush administration for that to be eclipsed, but it is still among the top 10.

What happens, now with the advent of the internet, we have "scene" kids fashioning the same argument as an excuse to pretend they don't like what other people do, but the fact of the matter is that they are themselves sheep to the SAME FUCKING (non) ARGUMENT.

Fact, here, is that the argument is old, stupid, and the result of sandy-vagina bitterness.
Sad fact, here, is that at least 50 people will attempt completely missing this post and spew stupid shit, I will lock this thread before I have been at work for an hour in the morning if at least 10 have not smartly presented something to make me believe anything other than what I typed... "who cares? it all sucks" is not a viable answer and will count against the 10.


My apologies if this thread hurt not only your eyes, but also your overall feeling and attitude at this given moment... This thread's purpose is to read what people's opinions are with how they understand and perceive hip hop vs rap which will not lead to a debate or argument, just opinions. It was merely a case study of what the norm thinks they know about hip hop vs rap today which does have its differences just like a silvia and a 240sx. I appreciate your opinion about the difference of the two and I hope no more fuel will be brought to a fire that never existed.

[Jeremiel]

here you go Jeremiel
Is Hip Hop still "hip" to the youth today?? - Future Producers (http://www.futureproducers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270443)
spit ur ideas


LOL! haha, word. I was just at that forum earlier today 'cuz I read the NAS vs Lil Wayne, lol

[Ben G]

The difference is that there is NOT A FUCKING DIFFERENCE!!!
Look, I love hip hop music, to the point where I AM hip hop music. The fact remains, that "hip hop" is 4 elements - emceeing (rapping), DJing, graffiti, and b-boying (breakdancing).

If you are doing ANY of these, then you are hip hop, no one said you have to do them all. Fact of the matter remains that most of the shit that people are saying "oh, this is hip hop, that's rap" are failing to ATTEMPT to make the discernation, that there is no difference, with things being taken on their face.

Sometime around the mid to late 90's, self-righteous bitter butthurt people decided that since people they felt were beneath them were more successful than them, they would contrive the insult "that ain't hip hop, that's rap," which I felt at the time was the fucking stupidest thing that I had ever seen, heard or read in my life at the time. It took me until the Bush administration for that to be eclipsed, but it is still among the top 10.

What happens, now with the advent of the internet, we have "scene" kids fashioning the same argument as an excuse to pretend they don't like what other people do, but the fact of the matter is that they are themselves sheep to the SAME FUCKING (non) ARGUMENT.

Fact, here, is that the argument is old, stupid, and the result of sandy-vagina bitterness.
Sad fact, here, is that at least 50 people will attempt completely missing this post and spew stupid shit, I will lock this thread before I have been at work for an hour in the morning if at least 10 have not smartly presented something to make me believe anything other than what I typed... "who cares? it all sucks" is not a viable answer and will count against the 10.


im going to have to say that was the best explanation i have ever heard of the whole difference and had has now changed my opinion

[C. Senor]

both suck......listen to wolfgang amadeus!

[JeremyR]

i personally like to leave graff out of hip hop.

it was around before hip hop.
alot of people NOT into hip hop do graff.
i know alot of metalheads who do graff, does that make them hip hop? no.
just becuase someting seems "urban" doesnt mean its part of that culture.

quit playing into the stereotypical 80s bboy on the street with the lasonic bumpin in front of a wall of graffiti. LAME.

rap to me is anything that plays on top40 stations. pop music. lil wayne is pop music, TI, 50 cent, etc etc. all the newest club music is just "urban" pop music.

any sf bayarea guys here? wild949? kmel? yup. both pop rap stations. mtv rap stations. the music they play caters to the "in" crowd. the song thats hot right now might not be hot in a year. which goes against what i feel hip hop is. a good hip hop/rap song is timeless, not some generic "shortie want a thug bottles in the club" bullshit song made to make money. any rap song flaunting money or "psuedo-thuggin" or degrading women, is jsut garbage.

rap is what sells records.
hip-hop is more of a poetry type style.

any retard can sing about money bitches and hoes.

it takes true talent to write meaningful and thought out lyrics.


it boils down to personal opinion really.
some people can listen to 50 cent, than can go listen to common or living legends

other people (like me) can' fuckin stand 50 cent and his crap beats and lyrics

what hip hop means to me might not be what hip hop means to you.

so please dont spit some holier than thou im more hip hop than you back at my opinions.

if you ever saw me in the streets you would have no idea i was into hip hop anyway.

[Phlip]

both suck......listen to wolfgang amadeus!
Strike one, I strongly suggest that someone start reporting posts if they want this thread to remain open.

[C. Senor]

alright, i'm sorry. thought a little humor would lighten things up. hip and rap discussions always get a little too heated. like trying to compare 50cent and eminem to say mos def and talib kweli to people like (and forgive me because i've been out of it for a while) eyedea and slug. very different styles, very differenet messages, very different characters. all have one thing, and that's presumably they do wht they do because they love it. all of them (Atleast the ones i mentioned) are great in their own credit. it's up to you to decide what you like. like right now, i like pitbull. great songs to dance to. but that's me.

[kurous]

True but GANGSTA RAp is the shits COugnut, Celly CEll, the originals like NWO hard as fuck with a mofa fuckan strap. CLick Clack. HAha sry attempt at rapping the 90's rap was the shit nowa day's its all mainstream... sigh But I do enjoy me lots of hip hop ahhh. :wackit:

[brndck]

i think alot of people classify "hip hop" and "rap" incorrectly. they assume that just because a rapper is "underground" that they're "hip hop", but if they're famous and get radio play then they're a "rapper". "rappers" seem very skewed toward "in da club" type songs, while "hip hop" artists are either more political or personal with their subject matter.

personally i can't stand 98% of the stuff that gets radio play, but i enjoy a very broad selection of rap.

........and also +1 for what phlip said. the by the book definition states: 4 elements = hip hop. rapping is just one of the 4.

[racepar1]

The difference is that there is NOT A FUCKING DIFFERENCE!!!
Look, I love hip hop music, to the point where I AM hip hop music. The fact remains, that "hip hop" is 4 elements - emceeing (rapping), DJing, graffiti, and b-boying (breakdancing).

If you are doing ANY of these, then you are hip hop, no one said you have to do them all. Fact of the matter remains that most of the shit that people are saying "oh, this is hip hop, that's rap" are failing to ATTEMPT to make the discernation, that there is no difference, with things being taken on their face.

Sometime around the mid to late 90's, self-righteous bitter butthurt people decided that since people they felt were beneath them were more successful than them, they would contrive the insult "that ain't hip hop, that's rap," which I felt at the time was the fucking stupidest thing that I had ever seen, heard or read in my life at the time. It took me until the Bush administration for that to be eclipsed, but it is still among the top 10.

What happens, now with the advent of the internet, we have "scene" kids fashioning the same argument as an excuse to pretend they don't like what other people do, but the fact of the matter is that they are themselves sheep to the SAME FUCKING (non) ARGUMENT.

Fact, here, is that the argument is old, stupid, and the result of sandy-vagina bitterness.
Sad fact, here, is that at least 50 people will attempt completely missing this post and spew stupid shit, I will lock this thread before I have been at work for an hour in the morning if at least 10 have not smartly presented something to make me believe anything other than what I typed... "who cares? it all sucks" is not a viable answer and will count against the 10.

I disagree. TODAY hip-hop and rap are one and the same, but REAL hip-hop does not sound the same as rap. Hip-hop beats are more up-beat and have more depth to them. Hip-hop lyrics are also more up-beat (generally speaking). Hip-hop has better rhythm then rap. Rap is slower and more "gangster". I would not consider a group like jurassic 5 "rap" music as their music is distinctly different from typical "rap" music. That is not to say that some artists do not blur the line, most of the good ones do, and that is not to say that they belong in different genre's either. They are VERY similar, but different enough to be referred to separately.

[murda-c]

jurassic 5, bunch of rappers and djs making not rap music.

edit:

I think of it more as mainstream Hip hop/rap vs alternative hip hop/rap

[anthony240]

about hip hop vs rap today which does have its differences just like a silvia and a 240sx.

nah, it's more like Nissan vs Silvia/240sx. Rap falls under Hip Hop. Rap is the style of delivery, how the artist recites the rhymes. You don't say an emcee is hip-hopping do you??

To me, Hip Hop is more like 3 major categories. There's Hip Hop Music, Hip Hop Art, and Hip Hop Style.

Rap/DJ/Breakdancing falls under music.

Graffiti is not all Hip Hop, graffiti is any drawing on public surfaces, so technically hopscotch is graffiti! You can tell if an artwork is Hip Hop inspired, it's just a given.

Hip Hop style is clothing/vocabulary. You can tell a person is into Hip Hop from the clothes/shoes/jewelry they wear and the words they speak because of what that person hears in the music.

Hip Hop is bigger than just a music genre

[spoolandslide]

shouldn't all you guys be working on your cars?

i know they are all broken in some way :hsdance:

[Phlip]

I disagree. TODAY hip-hop and rap are one and the same, but REAL hip-hop does not sound the same as rap. Hip-hop beats are more up-beat and have more depth to them. Hip-hop lyrics are also more up-beat (generally speaking). Hip-hop has better rhythm then rap. Rap is slower and more "gangster". I would not consider a group like jurassic 5 "rap" music as their music is distinctly different from typical "rap" music. That is not to say that some artists do not blur the line, most of the good ones do, and that is not to say that they belong in different genre's either. They are VERY similar, but different enough to be referred to separately.
It sounds to me like you're using the "hip hop vs. rap" thing, as I described, to talk down on that which you do not like or feel is beneath you and/or your tastes.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I would take a week off and spend the whole time jerking off if Soulja Boy fell off of a hotel balcony, got hit by a bus or was killed over something, but that in NO way qualifies me to tell me that he is not hip hop. I will allow my indifference to speak to my displeasure. Fuck, is it so hard to just IGNORE shit?!!?
It's like I said, if you are any of the original elements, along with the others that came along since, fashion, slang and yes even beatboxing, then you are hip hop. Disagree all you want, but the fact of the matter remains that your personal opinion will not change common sense on an issue.

Sure, graffiti might seem unrelated to most, but one must remember that the two grew together, from the same areas and in the same circles, so they are and will be related, simple as that.

[s13silady]

rap and hip hop are the same to me... same fucking roots.. different ass styles... and i love them both.

[HyperTek]

new akon song -bend dat ass over - a example of the way music is heading for
YouTube - Akon - Bend That Ass Ova [New Single] (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=QB4430N2qJ0)

lol horrible lyrics imo

[nismo tuned s14]

Hip-Hop is dead. T-Pain, Lil Wayne, and Kanye killed it with their voice machines. 90s to early 2000s is where it's at.

As for the differences, I've wondered the same thing. I have my opinions, but who knows what the correct answer is.

[origin_s135]

HIP-HOP IS RAP, RAP IS HIP-HOP. what the hell is wrong with yall? it's just that the whole game evolved into something else. if yall don't like what's going on with it today. then go listen to some underground shit that hates on the mainstream. i listen to club hits, lyrical stuff when i'm going to the club, at a bar, or on the daily. but it doesn't mean i'm going to portray hip-hop/rap as different genres. WHY!? there's no difference!

the one's that are good to you, you label them as "hip-hop" i assume, and bad ones are under rap? hah man it's the same shit. J5 [B]IS RAP.

HAH, you got metalheads into graffiti? i don't care, but that's a damn given that he's into hip-hop/rap.

if you say rap/hip-hop is dead then why is jay-z still making tracks? he is ballin' out the ass and we all know he don't need to do it. hip-hop was always here. people just can't accept the fact of where it's going right now; that's all. edit lemme correct the last line: "can't accept the fact that it's evolving"

[Phlip]

HIP-HOP IS RAP, RAP IS HIP-HOP. what the hell is wrong with yall? it's just that the whole game evolved into something else. if yall don't like what's going on with it today. then go listen to some underground shit that hates on the mainstream. i listen to club hits, lyrical stuff when i'm going to the club, at a bar, or on the daily. but it doesn't mean i'm going to portray hip-hop/rap as different genres. WHY!? there's no difference!

the one's that are good to you, you label them as "hip-hop" i assume, and bad ones are under rap? hah man it's the same shit. J5 [B]IS RAP.

HAH, you got metalheads into graffiti? i don't care, but that's a damn given that he's into hip-hop/rap.

if you say rap/hip-hop is dead then why is jay-z still making tracks? he is ballin' out the ass and we all know he don't need to do it. hip-hop was always here. people just can't accept the fact of where it's going right now; that's all. edit lemme correct the last line: "can't accept the fact that it's evolving"
Imaginary green squares to this man!

[ESmorz]

BLAH BLAH

Music sucks.

Myspace killed it.

[irax]

People who say HipHop is dead just want attention, or have too much nostalgic attachment to older music. Hip Hop is about the struggle, rap is about the glory. Like rock songs that are about love are ballads, but ones about pain is the blues. They are the same but there are huge differences in between them.

Like Run DMC is Hip Hop, while Snoop Dog is Rap.

[Phlip]

People who say HipHop is dead just want attention, or have too much nostalgic attachment to older music. Hip Hop is about the struggle, rap is about the glory. Like rock songs that are about love are ballads, but ones about pain is the blues. They are the same but there are huge differences in between them.

Like Run DMC is Hip Hop, while Snoop Dog is Rap.
No, Ib... They're BOTH hip hop, in that both actually rap.
Same point I been making.

[FTWjesse]

im currently bumpin outkast - skew it on the bar -b.. damm that track was fire!!
Sounds great still after 10 years , hasnt aged a bit in my books.

I honestly dont like how graffiti fits in with hip hop. did all teh original emcees go tagging?

I would like to see this become a good debate, its just people get offended upon opinions and these threads get closed etc. I recently started a thread about hiphop being dead and i felt i had to close it because alot of people who dont even listen to hiphop *thesquidd* started getting on me and everyone agreeing on his beliefs.

But anyways, opinion really doesnt mean anything, unless you plan to make a change and do your part to contribute to hip hop.. otherwise, me, you, and anyone here who reads this, dont mean anything.

Might wanna throw some threads up on Rap & Hip-Hop / R&B - Future Producers (http://www.futureproducers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1) if your interested

graffiti these days has turned into something different. theres only a few that stay true to the artistic and sometimes politically fueled side of graffiti. majority of it now is "tag banging" which is the retarded nonsense you see on city walls claiming crews.

[turtl631]

Holy crap Phlip, only like two posts even acknowledged what you said.

I really can't take it when people try to separate music based on whether it's "hip hop" or "rap". I'm not going to repeat Phlip's explanation, but fact is...it's correct. This isn't something you have a feeling or opinion about, it's simple x=a, y=b type shit. Unless you're KRS-One, then you think that hip hop is comprised of like 11 elements, and you start a temple dedicated to it in Atlanta, and people start to write you off: Temple of Hiphop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Hiphop)

To the guy who said that rap is music that talks about money or degrading women, while hip hop has meaningful lyrics...get over yourself. Tons of quality rap music is about money and degrades women. Do people not listen to lyrics at all? There's no way you can divide rap into different genres based on how slow the beat is (lol) or how enlightened the lyrics are.

Oh yea, watch flicks like Wild Style and Krush Groove to get a feel for the early days of hip hop culture as well. I certainly didn't grow up with this shit and I don't "look" like someone who's really into it, but that's not the point. There's information and history out there, and you can learn, if only you put in some effort.

[HyperTek]

maybe there just needs to be a more specific name for "bling rap" and the likes

[CrashQueen]

so in college i actually took up a hip hop class. It was basically the history of and such. It was an interesting yet pointless class really, but I just wanted to take it for fun and it actually fulfilled a general education requirement.

anyway, we had the same debate among other debates such as hip hop as a culture or a movement. But anyway, our conclusion was practically what PHLIP summed up. He is absolutely correct. Suck it up and stop whining like babies because whether or not some of you want to believe it, the stuff on the radio is still classified as hip hop.

it always bothered me how people differentiate hip hop on the radio as rap. Rap is something you do! I mean, if you wanna put a label on it, you can call it Crap, (at least most of it is), but it's still hip hop.


graffiti is the visual expression of hip hop. Most people back in the day who were practicing the other elements of hiphop were also doing graffiti.

[stiizy]

Graffiti , Break Dancing , The art of the streets basically....

[Future240]

I think that hip-hop/rap is just evolving just like rock did.

If you go to wiki and look there are over 10 differnet categories of rock. Some of those categories have sub categories. Such as metal, which has speed metal and death metal as sub classes

I think it's raps turn to make that transition. Some artists like Lupehave great lyrics and good beats for those who like those types of beats. However if you have a party with music I dont think Lupe really fits the bill for the music there.

However thats where other artists can fill in. If i want deep lyrical rap that means something I listen to Lupe, if I feel like jumpin round like an idiot I bump three 6 mafia, if I am cruisin round in the max then I might have, yo gotti, boosie, lupe, troy, wayne, comin out the trunk.

Different people like diff music. Rap has so many fans now that it was bound to start evolving sooner or later. I think instead of hatin on the music of others, appreciate the fact that rap has enough fans to make it start to evolve.

[stiizy]

Death Metal??

Yeah see i don't fuck with that slap ya momma bite a locust in half fucking six star shit....

[Future240]

I was just using that as an example

[stiizy]

^^ Nah you listen to that shit bro you told me on Myspace it's aite the Zilvia community still welcomes you with open arms.....



hahahaha

Just fucking with ya....Pranksta

[Future240]

^^Myspace, i forgot I had one of those, hm

You gone need somethin a lil stronger to come back than that,tell ya pops if he gets elected, he better put a zilvia sticker on his car :keke:

[stiizy]

Aite if you tell ya pops Moses Davis that he need another greatest hits album last one came out a while back "bloodfire" :keke: :keke:

[Phlip]

Holy crap Phlip, only like two posts even acknowledged what you said.

I really can't take it when people try to separate music based on whether it's "hip hop" or "rap". I'm not going to repeat Phlip's explanation, but fact is...it's correct. This isn't something you have a feeling or opinion about, it's simple x=a, y=b type shit. Unless you're KRS-One, then you think that hip hop is comprised of like 11 elements, and you start a temple dedicated to it in Atlanta, and people start to write you off: Temple of Hiphop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Hiphop)

To the guy who said that rap is music that talks about money or degrading women, while hip hop has meaningful lyrics...get over yourself. Tons of quality rap music is about money and degrades women. Do people not listen to lyrics at all? There's no way you can divide rap into different genres based on how slow the beat is (lol) or how enlightened the lyrics are.

Oh yea, watch flicks like Wild Style and Krush Groove to get a feel for the early days of hip hop culture as well. I certainly didn't grow up with this shit and I don't "look" like someone who's really into it, but that's not the point. There's information and history out there, and you can learn, if only you put in some effort.
People didn't acknowledge my posts because they made sense and didn't allow for the silly-ass arguing they preferred to do... Some peoples' heads are jammed so far up their asses that they run a distinct risk of having their eyeballs plucked out by Lemmiwinks (we'll see who catches that one), and that is why I gave up on the Lil Wayne vs. Nas thread, I would have locked it if I had kept reading.





so in college i actually took up a hip hop class. It was basically the history of and such. It was an interesting yet pointless class really, but I just wanted to take it for fun and it actually fulfilled a general education requirement.

anyway, we had the same debate among other debates such as hip hop as a culture or a movement. But anyway, our conclusion was practically what PHLIP summed up. He is absolutely correct. Suck it up and stop whining like babies because whether or not some of you want to believe it, the stuff on the radio is still classified as hip hop.

it always bothered me how people differentiate hip hop on the radio as rap. Rap is something you do! I mean, if you wanna put a label on it, you can call it Crap, (at least most of it is), but it's still hip hop.


graffiti is the visual expression of hip hop. Most people back in the day who were practicing the other elements of hiphop were also doing graffiti.
You took a college course on it, I grew up and with it, I just fucking love music, and hip hop is the music of my generation as a 29 year old black dude, simple as that. I LOVE this shit, in such, I make a point of knowing it to be able to conduct a civil, objective and smart conversation about it. MySpace blogs are down right now, but when I get back to the house, I will link you guys to something I wrote on it a few weeks back.





Aite if you tell ya pops Moses Davis that he need another greatest hits album last one came out a while back "bloodfire" :keke: :keke:
Moses Davis? That is Beenie Man's real name... Dancehall is Jamaican hip hop, I can go for that too!

[CrashQueen]

You took a college course on it, I grew up and with it, I just fucking love music, and hip hop is the music of my generation as a 29 year old black dude, simple as that. I LOVE this shit, in such, I make a point of knowing it to be able to conduct a civil, objective and smart conversation about it. MySpace blogs are down right now, but when I get back to the house, I will link you guys to something I wrote on it a few weeks back.



well i wish i can say that i lived during the birth of hip hop. As a 24 year old, I barely started understanding it as it developed into the early 90s and continued evolving. Doesn't mean that i can't appreciate it though plus i wanted to understand it better, so i studied it haha. Unlike most people who will make uneducated claims.

I was actually surprised when i found that class while going through my schedule of classes. I can study an uneccesary subject like hip hop AND get credit for it? sweet deal!

haha.

[Future240]

^thats why ya go back and see what you missed. Right now I am on a 90's kick, with NWA

[Phlip]

MySpace blogs are down right now, but when I get back to the house, I will link you guys to something I wrote on it a few weeks back.

As promised:
"Who am I?" (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=38538196&blogID=422799756)

Yes, I am very serious about the things I have said in this and similar threads.

[ESmorz]

http://www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/hip/hip_anatomy/hip_anatomy_intro01.jpg
http://i.treehugger.com/images/2007/5/24/hop%20blossom.jpg

http://www.dragnix.net/Legends/sword_fight_small.gif

http://www.lostwackys.com/images/original-series/14th/Saran%20Wrap%20%28blue%29%20-%20print.jpg

[Jeremiel]

Hip Hop and Rap is a paradox in itself because they are the same yet different at the same time. As many have explained it like Philip, Hip Hop and Rap are the same in the essence of the types of variables making a music genre sound hip hop or rap such as similar beats and rhythmic lyrics for instance. Just like Philip, I grew up with Hip Hop and I'm a little bit older than Philip as I am turning 30, but I'm not black, just pure Pinoy (Filipino). Hip Hop helped me learn English and live a lifestyle.

From what I learned and know about Hip Hop is it started in The Bronx, NY in mid 1970s where DJs like DJ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ) Clive "Kool Herc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool_Herc)" Campbell were messing with turn tables and fucked up a track by accident that made is sound like a "scratch-effect" which he liked a lot, so kept practicing... During his time in the late 1970s, teenage black people were having problems being accepted socially and US itself was not doing well economically too, so these teens and young adults was looking for something to do other than to deal with the violence that was constantly arising in their streets and neighbourhoods, thus, Hip Hop is born.

DJ Herc and a bunch of DJs used to tap in power lines to serve their equipment in their local complex, but when the crowd got big, then they did it at the parks. They started spinning music first and started scratching, hence, now called DJing which is the first element of hip hop. Then an MC comes on the mic from time to time to simply talk over the music to promote their DJ, promote other dance parties, take light-hearted jabs at other lyricists, or talk about problems in their areas and issues facing the community as a whole, thus, MC is the second element of hip hop. Fact, Emceeing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emceeing) is the rhythmic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm) spoken delivery of rhymes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyme) and wordplay, delivered over a beat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beats_%28music%29) or without accompaniment. Rapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapping) is derived from the griots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griot) (folk poets) of West Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_music), and Jamaican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaican_Music)-style toasting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toasting). Rap developed both inside and outside of hip hop culture and is considered as one of the elements of hip hop much like MCing.

During these DJ parties at the park, they would have technical difficulties with their turntables while the microphone(s) would still work, so they had experimental musicians that were so into hip hop get on the mic such as Doug E. Fresh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_E._Fresh), Biz Markie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biz_Markie), and Buffy from the Fat Boys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Boys) who made beats, rhythm, and musical sounds using their mouth, lips, tongue, voice, and other body parts, hence, beatboxing which is the third element of hip hop.

In every party, there will always be people dancing and as hip hop evolved in the early 80s, so did many hip hop dancers showing many different tricks on how to maneuver their bodies with the rhythm of hip hop, thus, break-dancing is born which is the fourth element of hip hop.

Some listeners of hip hop music in the late 70s and early 80s were fine artists who didn't know much about themselves as artists yet, but felt that attempting to express themselves artistically (with paint) as truthful as possible pertaining to the MCs experience, storytelling, and choice of words would help voice their issues to the public in order to gain attention, recognition, and hopes that the city can help them live a better life plus it looked "cool", hence, the fifth element of hip hop which is Graffiti.

So Hip Hop consist of five elements:
1. DJ
2. MC/rap
3. Beatbox
4. Break-dancing
5. Graffiti

So hip hop started for the soul purposes of getting teenagers away from the violence in the streets (the target was black teenagers in The Bronx) to a place where a community can build and relate to by playing and teaching teens and participants how to DJ, grafitti (art), beatbox, MC, and break-dance. One other purpose for Hip Hop was to help the young black Americans express themselves truthfully, artiscally, and to cope with their oppression. Hence, Hip Hop music as a lifestyle which many countries around the world can relate to especially young Palestinians; one of my friends who happens to be living in Jordan, the country next to Palestine, started a movement for young Palestinians who enjoys Hip Hop and not just Rap called Ramallah Underground for the same purpose as why it was started in The Bronx, NY back in the late 1970s.

Rap is just one element of Hip Hop which is better known as MC or Emcee or Microphone Checker. So the difference between Hip Hop and Rap is the same difference between Nissan and Silvia/240SX where Hip Hop is Nissan while Silvia/240SX is Rap. So I do agree with PHILIP to a certain extent that Hip Hop and Rap is the same thing, but I will have to say that it has its differences because Rap is really just an element of Hip Hop.

One of the problems with today's confusion of hip hop and rap is the listeners and viewers themselves. HipHop/Rap started in late 1990s for most hiphop/rap viewers and listeners; it's more like 1994 when Tupac and Biggie were just getting started. The problem with this era is that gangsta rap was just born (late 80s) along with many other Hip Hop-like or Rap-like music such as Mad Lion and Grand Puba 2000 while Hip Hop was still trying to establish itself on the map, thus, leading to redefining/evolving the word Hip Hop and intertwine it with the word rap. As Hip Hop was growing and trying to establish a definition of its own with the help of artist like KRS-ONE, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_Flash_and_the_Furious_Five), Afrika Bambaataa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika_Bambaataa), WuTang Clan, NAS to name a few, there were other artist that wanted to be as big as the hip hop artists I just mentioned except they had a whole different style and didn't want to follow, so they started their own lead known as gangsta rap which started in the late 80s, in Compton, CA, and some of the originators of gangsta rap were Ice-T, NWA, Easy E, Ice Cube while Snoop Dogg, Tupac, Biggie were some rappers that redefined/evolved the word gansta rap into rap of its own.

So here we are in the late 1990s with a mixture of Hip Hop and gangsta rap where people living in the 1990s could not differentiate the two, so it was just simply categorized as HipHop/Rap in all the music billboards. As this continued to be categorized as HipHop/Rap, the general public became conditioned to understanding that HipHop and Rap has no difference at all, hence, evolving a new definition of HipHop which is now also know as Rap. With that in mind, this is one of the main reasons why many original hip hop MCs are asking if Hip Hop is dead because Hip Hop started as a tool to help the oppressed human beings in our world to live a lifestyle full of music, rhythm, words, positivity, acceptance, expression, hope, and helping a community to have a status in order to be recognize as a human beings and not just human beings with colour...

So is Hip Hop dead or are you Hip Hop?



thank you for reading, :snoop:

[HyperTek]

wow man your very passionate about that

[downshift_sideways]

i personally like to leave graff out of hip hop.

it was around before hip hop.
alot of people NOT into hip hop do graff.
i know alot of metalheads who do graff, does that make them hip hop? no.
just becuase someting seems "urban" doesnt mean its part of that culture.

quit playing into the stereotypical 80s bboy on the street with the lasonic bumpin in front of a wall of graffiti. LAME.

rap to me is anything that plays on top40 stations. pop music. lil wayne is pop music, TI, 50 cent, etc etc. all the newest club music is just "urban" pop music.

any sf bayarea guys here? wild949? kmel? yup. both pop rap stations. mtv rap stations. the music they play caters to the "in" crowd. the song thats hot right now might not be hot in a year. which goes against what i feel hip hop is. a good hip hop/rap song is timeless, not some generic "shortie want a thug bottles in the club" bullshit song made to make money. any rap song flaunting money or "psuedo-thuggin" or degrading women, is jsut garbage.

rap is what sells records.
hip-hop is more of a poetry type style.

any retard can sing about money bitches and hoes.

it takes true talent to write meaningful and thought out lyrics.


it boils down to personal opinion really.
some people can listen to 50 cent, than can go listen to common or living legends

other people (like me) can' fuckin stand 50 cent and his crap beats and lyrics

what hip hop means to me might not be what hip hop means to you.

so please dont spit some holier than thou im more hip hop than you back at my opinions.

if you ever saw me in the streets you would have no idea i was into hip hop anyway.

Agreed...

+1

[downshift_sideways]

YouTube - Zion I - Bird's Eye View (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYJCT8EqbtU)

[SqueekyClean]

And there is a difference between Street or Urban Art and just gang related or dumb "tagging"

We must use the words specifically, a Gang tagging for territory and a beautiful mural is a totally different thing. Crazy usage of geometrics, lines, colors, perspective points of views are not the same as a simple kid that tags, "Joker 13" or "XYZ 13 bloodz"

Rap, to be honest, is dead. What are these "gangsters" rapping about anyway?

The gang lifestyle has pretty much died out with respect to the mainstream.

What does does 50 cent and the game have to argue about with all that money? They are little girls. Rapping about stupid made up "beef."

AT LEAST 2 PAC HAD A CAUSE. Speaking truth about life and death with regards to inequality and such.

All these wonna be 2 pacs, rap about "lollipops and throwing money in the air"

What kind of Idiot throws money in the air! and how the hell is a broke ass person like me going to listen to something so stupid as that?

Hip Hop is cool because it has beats and even though the words may sometimes be stupid, at least it's not filled with that much hate and "beef."

And I can at least dance to hip hop. Jeah!!! okay!!!

Bitch ass rappers talk about guns and all that, Join the military and go to Iraq lil biatche, then we will see what you will do and if you will cock your Glocks and spray the Ak's.

[160Z]

Yeah Squeeky, rap died with 2Pac but I can't help feeling that him taking rap from the streets into the mainstream led to it's death. The mainstream's just too strong :(

[Phlip]

And there is a difference between Street or Urban Art and just gang related or dumb "tagging"

We must use the words specifically, a Gang tagging for territory and a beautiful mural is a totally different thing. Crazy usage of geometrics, lines, colors, perspective points of views are not the same as a simple kid that tags, "Joker 13" or "XYZ 13 bloodz"

Rap, to be honest, is dead. What are these "gangsters" rapping about anyway?

The gang lifestyle has pretty much died out with respect to the mainstream.

What does does 50 cent and the game have to argue about with all that money? They are little girls. Rapping about stupid made up "beef."

AT LEAST 2 PAC HAD A CAUSE. Speaking truth about life and death with regards to inequality and such.

All these wonna be 2 pacs, rap about "lollipops and throwing money in the air"

What kind of Idiot throws money in the air! and how the hell is a broke ass person like me going to listen to something so stupid as that?

Hip Hop is cool because it has beats and even though the words may sometimes be stupid, at least it's not filled with that much hate and "beef."

And I can at least dance to hip hop. Jeah!!! okay!!!

Bitch ass rappers talk about guns and all that, Join the military and go to Iraq lil biatche, then we will see what you will do and if you will cock your Glocks and spray the Ak's.
So what, did you close your ears when Tupac got to songs like "Picture me rollin'," "Toss it up," "How do you want it" and SO many others? Do you REALLY think that 'Pac didn't have his times where he bragged about smoking weed, fucking bitches and getting money? "Beef"? Tupac was one of the ones who STARTED that shit, remember? The fact of the matter, here is that the MOLD of the "gangsta" rapper who you are trying to take to task for being JUST that. Tattoos, muscles and shirts off, pistols, strippers, liquor and weed in music videos, NO ONE was doing ALL of that shit at once before Tupac, now it is standard fare, according to the gangsta rap handbook.
Fact remains, here, that Tupac was overrated, especially when he sold out his "keep your head up" and "brenda's got a baby" REAL message he USED to portray the INSTANT he realized that "Thug Life" and pseudo gangster talk was more profitable at the time. Know what else? Biggie was overrated too, but not nearly as much as Tupac was, in that he never pretended to be anything other than what he was. Funny thing, really, is that Nas, 50 Cent, Lil Wayne, and to a point Jay-Z are all overrated as well, for their own set of reasons and fabrications.
Yes, I like Tupac's shit, but I am objective enough to see it as it is. It stands to reason one that can say that "hip hop" or "rap" died with Tupac and Biggie, but the fact of the matter remains that they helped to kill it on their way out.

[jonnybonds84]

Hip Hop is more about the lyrics/Style, rap focuses more on beats.....my 2 cents.

[Future240]

and you bumped a two month old thread to say that?:ghey:

[jonnybonds84]

Bored as hell at work but still getting paid :bigok:. I win.

[Phlip]

Hip Hop is more about the lyrics/Style, rap focuses more on beats.....my 2 cents.

That was the most worthless fucking 2 cents in the history of currency.
This thread is 2 months old, and that bullshit you just said has been said and refuted several times... You fail.

[jonnybonds84]

I win cause I win, lol. Cool ducks.

[ALTRNTV]

Cool ducks? Is that hip-hop slang?

[Phlip]

Cool ducks? Is that hip-hop slang?

It is the wording of someone who just had to post in a thread that was destined to fail from the beginning.