VLSD prevents from learning, how hard does it take to change back to VLSD from LSD

[dongoesby]

edited tiltle: LSD prevents from learning.

I've been doing AutoX for around two months now. My time is keep on improving. However, a friend of mine who is a auto club president and a licensed road racing driver himself sugguested me to go back to VLSD, so in that case I would learn more by without the help of LSD. My car is bought with a nismo 1.5 way lsd, which he mentioned it is too aggressive.

What do you guys think, should I consider his suggestion and swap back to vlsd for a while to learn? I still have the oem vlsd, it is just the matter if it is hard to switch back and forth. Please let me know what you guys think if I can still learn with lsd.

[brndck]

an aggressive lsd can sometimes be a disadvantage on tight autox courses, as it can have a tendency to push/understeer. but there are advanced techniques that can be employed to counter this. if your times keep dropping, i'd say you're still learning, which is the point.

but since you have the option of switching back, i can't see any reason not to try it and see what the results are.

just my .02

[s13 @ fullboost]

I would say do it switch and feel the difference for your self

[Hashiriya415]

same thing. they both LOCK UP, only difference is how it's locked up.
Viscous relies on the heat locking it together, other relies on clutches. Results are same
under hard corner acceleration no difference both will lock up. You can get open diff and have only 1 wheel be pushing you out of a corner, it's a weird feeling having 1 wheel push

[twotoes]

but since you have the option of switching back, i can't see any reason not to try it and see what the results are.


yeah def. it cant hurt, just try it out.

[lflkajfj12123]

A VLSD is made up of thin perforated plates that are suspended in a silicone fluid. The plates shear the fluid as the wheels rotate at different speeds. This shearing can equalize the different wheel rates thus limiting slippage. The VLSD only provides a 15-20% locking function when new, so they are not really meant to be a performance item. I have found that the locking action of the VLSD takes a moment to activate when one wheel starts to slip so it usually takes affect after you have already exited the corner. They are really meant to help you get the car moving from a dead stop in slippery conditions and not a performance aid. The VLSD works just fine for it's intended street usage but it will effectively stop limiting slip, from a performance point of view, at some point as the plates can break, the silicone fluid can leak and the tolerance between the plates can wear

The shop manual states to test a VLSD you put a torque wrench on the hub (wheel in the air) and turn 90 degrees with 11 ft lbs of torque (car in gear). This should take no less than 4 seconds. If less then you have either an open diff or the VLSD is toast. Another test for a good VLSD is to jack up the rear with both rear wheels in the air. A good VLSD will turn both rear wheels in the same direction when manually turning the drive shaft. The open unit (or toasted VLSD) will turn the wheels in the opposite directions. There is no rebuild kit for the VLSD and the unit is completely sealed so you can't even get inside it short of cutting it

yes thats right your VLSD is pretty pointless and its probably operating just like an open in your 10+ year old car

[dongoesby]

LSD prevents from learning.

sorry guys, I mistakened the title. I have LSD now, and I DO feel the major push/understeer around corners in autox. I thought it was actually very werid compare to driving my friend's 2nd gen miata. I don't have the feeling of when the tires begin to lock, but with approx same corner entry speed as the miata, I get major understeer with 30~50% throttle (I'm a late braker). Sometimes, I'm able to convert back to oversteer with full throttle.

I'm using the factory pumpkin for the nismo 1.5 lsd, so is it expensive for the shop to swap back the vlsd, is it DIY-able?

[soreballz]

^lol, don't ever expect your S13 to feel anything like a Miata does on an autoX course.

Just pull the whole diff out and replace it with a VLSD that is already in a pumpkin. Saves time... VLSDs suck ass though.

[lflkajfj12123]

LSD prevents from learning.

sorry guys, I mistakened the title. I have LSD now, and I DO feel the major push/understeer around corners in autox. I thought it was actually very werid compare to driving my friend's 2nd gen miata. I don't have the feeling of when the tires begin to lock, but with approx same corner entry speed as the miata, I get major understeer with 30~50% throttle (I'm a late braker). Sometimes, I'm able to convert back to oversteer with full throttle.

I'm using the factory pumpkin for the nismo 1.5 lsd, so is it expensive for the shop to swap back the vlsd, is it DIY-able?

go in faster

don't throttle through the turn

throttle on the exit

if were talking auto-x that is

and do not not go back to a VLSD just don't

[ericcastro]

same thing. they both LOCK UP, only difference is how it's locked up.
Viscous relies on the heat locking it together, other relies on clutches. Results are same
under hard corner acceleration no difference both will lock up. You can get open diff and have only 1 wheel be pushing you out of a corner, it's a weird feeling having 1 wheel push

This is just wrong. VLSD doesnt fully lock at all, and it also takes more time than a LSD to lock. On a tight auto cross, a Welded, 1.5 or 2way can be a big disadvantage. With experience, you can adjust your drive style to suit.
A VLSD is great for auto cross. chicago boxes, tight second gear slolom. great!!
you get both tires pushing, but they can rotate seperatly alot easier than a LSD.

I have LSD now, and I DO feel the major push/understeer around corners in autox........(I'm a late braker). Sometimes, I'm able to convert back to oversteer with full throttle.

Its your technique.
Brake sooner so the big wieght transfer happens earlier,start to let off the brake and turn in shifting the wieght to the side.
Since we have lifted some off the brake and that wieght isnt pushing anymore,its now pushing laterally and your steering through.
Your over steer is coming from simple "power over", kinda sloppy to do it randomly. use it to your advantage and control it.

You can try;
As you brake in, lift off the clutch and the gas as you brake.
this will clutch lock the back wheels, but dont actually let them lock. you will get all 4 wheels brakeing instead of the usually front and a little rear.
then as you push the brake harder, depress the clutch and let off your brake when your at desired speed. start to coast through the begining of the corner so there is no push or locking lsd(you have 1.5)
at the inside apex, dump the clutch kinda hard and then give it 30% power as you start to come out.
And then accelerate to max on the way out while keeping the rear tires under you :)

this basically gets you more brakeing power, and will get the back to step out just a touch on the exit to make sure you dont under and push coming out.

just sit in your chair and go through the motions while you imagine a corner, you'll get it.
soften the front suspention also and take off the top strut bar if you have one. make sure you have an alignment.


^lol, don't ever expect your S13 to feel anything like a Miata does on an autoX course.

Just pull the whole diff out and replace it with a VLSD that is already in a pumpkin. Saves time... VLSDs suck ass though.
true
and
double true

[dongoesby]

You can try;
As you brake in, lift off the clutch and the gas as you brake.
this will clutch lock the back wheels, but dont actually let them lock. you will get all 4 wheels brakeing instead of the usually front and a little rear.
then as you push the brake harder, depress the clutch and let off your brake when your at desired speed. start to coast through the begining of the corner so there is no push or locking lsd(you have 1.5)
at the inside apex, dump the clutch kinda hard and then give it 30% power as you start to come out.
And then accelerate to max on the way out while keeping the rear tires under you :)

this basically gets you more brakeing power, and will get the back to step out just a touch on the exit to make sure you dont under and push coming out.

just sit in your chair and go through the motions while you imagine a corner, you'll get it.
soften the front suspention also and take off the top strut bar if you have one. make sure you have an alignment.

I actually have a hard time to understand your braking technique although you have a very clear explianation. I envy my miata friend who gets abundance of help/advice for hundreds of other miata drivers in autox. At the sametime, I will try to understand your theory. However, the autox I have here is low speed (~40mph max), so 2nd gear is all I use throughout the whole run.

I have never step on the clutch besides upshift to 2nd. I only use my right foot on gas and brake. When coming to a decent corner hot (around 35mph), I slam on the brake (without pressing the clutch), locking the front tires, do the ABS-less right foot motion, then turn in (without brake), depending on the speed, i will gas in the middle or further out in a corner and full throttle out while maintaining the steering. By saying this, I always have major understeer while in corner, moreover, i have jerky steering...

What you were saying I believe is tail-braking? Basically very late brake and carry it through all the way to turn in, making the rear slides out, then gas? I assume this can be done without messing with the clutch right? I've never play with my clutch since it is still stock.

Tires: stock size summer tires 35 psi front and rear
Suspension: Stance GR+ Pro stiffness-13 fr -10 rr (out of 15 max), no struct bars fr and rr, pretty thick front and rear sway bars (tanabe from last owner)
Alignment: 0 toe, approx 0 fr camber and -2~3 rr


btw, i know it ain't matters, but it is a s14, not s13.

[Ragnarok043]

i think hes basically saying brake a little earlier so that the suspension has time to unload the weight from the front and go into the turn neutral.

[ericcastro]

I actually have a hard time to understand your braking technique although you have a very clear explianation. I envy my miata friend who gets abundance of help/advice for hundreds of other miata drivers in autox. At the sametime, I will try to understand your theory. However, the autox I have here is low speed (~40mph max), so 2nd gear is all I use throughout the whole run.

I have never step on the clutch besides upshift to 2nd. I only use my right foot on gas and brake. When coming to a decent corner hot (around 35mph), I slam on the brake (without pressing the clutch), locking the front tires, do the ABS-less right foot motion, then turn in (without brake), depending on the speed, i will gas in the middle or further out in a corner and full throttle out while maintaining the steering. By saying this, I always have major understeer while in corner, moreover, i have jerky steering...

What you were saying I believe is tail-braking? Basically very late brake and carry it through all the way to turn in, making the rear slides out, then gas? I assume this can be done without messing with the clutch right? I've never play with my clutch since it is still stock.

Tires: stock size summer tires 35 psi front and rear
Suspension: Stance GR+ Pro stiffness-13 fr -10 rr (out of 15 max), no struct bars fr and rr, pretty thick front and rear sway bars (tanabe from last owner)
Alignment: 0 toe, approx 0 fr camber and -2~3 rr


btw, i know it ain't matters, but it is a s14, not s13.

S14 should handle better than a S13.

If your understeering in the corner your going to fast. setups can be adjusted so you can go faster, but every car will understeer if it comes in too hot.
I used to run all stock when i first started. You just need to make adjustments to your set up.

If your not depressing the clutch, your rear tires are probably pushing you straight and keeping that 1.5 locked. try putting the clutch in till you start to accelerate just before the halfway point of the turn.

im not talking about braking once in the corner, thats very hard to get right and judge properly. Especially with a car thats giving you some understeer issues.

brake earlier, So as you start your turn in your letting off the brake. (this is what puts your wieght back onto all 4 wheels instead of just the front 2)

And i was talking about using the clutch to lightly shock the driveline so you can get the back to come under you just a touch before your big accelerating exit. dont need to, but can help with your understeer too.

And just try and take the corners a little slower and I bet you come in quiker.

Maybe some of your instructers at your chapter know the name of those autocross books. they got ALOT of knoldege in those things!!

EDIT
i think hes basically saying brake a little earlier so that the suspension has time to unload the weight from the front and go into the turn neutral.

exactly. hard to explain on the nets, so i just simplified it.

And ask RACEPAR1 on here. he's a big grip guy.

[kawika219]

check with the grip guys first, but i believe if you remove your rear sway bar it might help the car roll through a little better. like i said wait till the grip guys chime in before you do this

[dongoesby]

If your not depressing the clutch, your rear tires are probably pushing you straight and keeping that 1.5 locked. try putting the clutch in till you start to accelerate just before the halfway point of the turn.

im not talking about braking once in the corner, thats very hard to get right and judge properly. Especially with a car thats giving you some understeer issues.

brake earlier, So as you start your turn in your letting off the brake. (this is what puts your wieght back onto all 4 wheels instead of just the front 2)

Maybe some of your instructers at your chapter know the name of those autocross books. they got ALOT of knoldege in those things!!

And ask RACEPAR1 on here. he's a big grip guy.

Interesting point about braking. I'm getting your point in two ways. One, I brake as usual (in straight, before corner), but depress the clutch as turn in (putting weight back to 4 wheels), then let clutch go as start to gas before the halfway point of the turn. This is making a lot of sense because stepping on the clutch, I'm assuming that would free the lsd, and so more traction will regain to the tires which making the turn in more grip. I like to try this if that is the case.

Second way I'm getting this is exactly the same except stepping on the clutch as soon as I brake. However, this contradicts my basic driving belief. I was taught that I have brake with clutch engaged, because the engine would help stop the tendency of forward momentum.

In autox, I don't get any instructors, I just ask around and seat in other people's cars. I been seriously considerd to remove my rear sway bar or use an adjustable endlink, I might do that in next session. I have read a lot of constructive posts by RACEPAR1, I hope he/she can chime in too.

[Forge_55b]

i think people are getting all crazy theoretical and crap beyond the scope of what he is asking......

do what the auto club president said and change to the VLSD, it WILL make you faster, and those that say a 1.5 is fine, well to an extent it is but regardless, assuming the VLSD is working correctly, you should notice that you can accelerate through a turn much faster (assuming you have correct suspension geometry in the first place but thats another thread)

[ericcastro]

Yeah, your understanding it.
And I knew ALOT of guys running the 1.5 when I auto crossed, so i would keep it in for awhile and try and change your style of driving.

the engine will help you brake the back tires, but not as well if the RPMs are up and you were just standing on the gas. You will brake the car faster than the engine slows. so it will "push".
So when you start to brake, push the clutch down so the engine disengages and slows down. (so it goes from 4500+ RPMs to 1500ish)
Now let out the clutch while your brakeing and you will feel a huge difference. Your engine will be helping slow you down much better.
then put it back in right before you let off the brake, disengaging the 1.5 right before the turn in and shifting the wieght over 4 wheels.


And yes, its pretty technical. But Auto cross is EXTREMELY technical!. You can go out there and run your car all day, but to get good and start using the concepts, its very technical.
Theres entired books on auto cross that just talk about this stuff along with grip potential and wieght transfers.


It really sucks you dont have instructors there.
Here in LA, the SCCA solo2 auto cross instructors are very good and will ride along with you and drive your car if you ask. Then they give you really good feedback and check up on you all day.
I was running a bonestock SOHC and beating other modified 240's. Cause I got instructors help and others had to much pride. lol

[0wn3r]

And yes, its pretty technical. But Auto cross is EXTREMELY technical!.

Yes, it is.

Not that I consider it a massive feat at all, but this is my 1st year in autox and I am RNS (SM index) champion in our local SCCA chapter with my kouki.

I may have slight differences in my car than yours which may help mentioning. First, SR20 swap so possibly lighter in the front than KA. Also, Went from open diff to vlsd and the controlability has definitely improved. (I originally planned on getting a kaaz 1.5 or 2 way.) I run stock-sized brakes & have 225/50/16 or 225/45/16. I honestly would prefer to upgrade the brakes and wheels/tires to help prevent lockup from no ABS.

My one question, has no one recommended HLSD? I would have picked one up if someone didn't sell and install a VLSD in my stock open diff pumpkin for fairly cheap.

Now, I have Stance AL+ SSD (the 12f/10r spring rates) and also got a corner balance and full alignment. During a test and tune, I found turning to be significantly easier (less understeer) when setting the rears close to (or on) full stiff and fronts close to (or on) full soft. I did not get a chance to mess with or remove the sway bar though. I must also mention that this was on cheaper street tires and not the R compounds that you're supposed to be using with their SSD suspension.

All in all, it matters most what feels good to YOU. Get your seat time and learn the car's abilities. Then get an instructor and have him give you tips on where you can improved. You'll get to a point where you think you are maxed out. If you get there, then I'd suggest start playing with more things on the car.

There is a hand-in-hand relationship in autocross: How much money and time you can blow on car setup and how well you can actually put those resources into practice behind the wheel.

I think it's BS if someone told you that LSD prevents you from learning. It may or may not prevent you from the times you're looking for, but you can ALWAYS learn how to drive and how your car reacts no matter if it's bone stock or completed prepped.

Anyways, if you play around and make the rear stiffer than the front, let me know if it felt better. [edit: Note that often times what feels better yields slower times. Sometimes what feels like a terrible run gives you your best time, so consider times just as (if not more) important as feel.]

[ericcastro]

^correct on the set up.
In my first post i said to pull off that tower bar if you got it.
make the front a little softer so the body can flex and keep those to tires in full contact.

Never tried a HLSD. wouldn't know.

One of my first upgrades was the brembo sloted with the hawk pads. not that much and a world of difference out there. Brake upgrades are a good start.

[0wn3r]

One of my first upgrades was the brembo sloted with the hawk pads. not that much and a world of difference out there. Brake upgrades are a good start.

Yeah, I have slotted rotors with hawk hps's using super blue fluid. Honestly I'm not impressed at all. My stopping power with these pads feels worse than with my axxis metal masters which I figured were just some ebay special. (to draw a picture, during a lap it feels like the brakes are either 'off', 'somewhat on', or 'locked up tires'.)

My preference would be to go with a big brake kit, but I really wish I had picked up some SS lines before I did the fluid for the meantime. In either case, the tires are still hurting me big time.

[dongoesby]

Now, I have Stance AL+ SSD (the 12f/10r spring rates) and also got a corner balance and full alignment. During a test and tune, I found turning to be significantly easier (less understeer) when setting the rears close to (or on) full stiff and fronts close to (or on) full soft. I did not get a chance to mess with or remove the sway bar though. I must also mention that this was on cheaper street tires and not the R compounds that you're supposed to be using with their SSD suspension.

....I think it's BS if someone told you that LSD prevents you from learning. It may or may not prevent you from the times you're looking for, but you can ALWAYS learn how to drive and how your car reacts no matter if it's bone stock or completed prepped.

This is some constructive words! thanks! I always wanted to know how AL+ is more nimble than GR+ on actual driving. Anyways, by setting the front full soft and frear full stiff, it is obvious meant for oversteer not doubt. I actually have minor over steer with even stiffness on front and rear, maybe due to the thick rear sway bar, so I have a bit stiffer setup in the front. I will try and take the rear sway bar off next time and see.

For your opinion over LSD may or may not helps on learning, that is an interesting point of view, but I will still be conservative on that, because a bone stock car is always good for beginners like me.

[0wn3r]

For your opinion over LSD may or may not helps on learning, that is an interesting point of view, but I will still be conservative on that, because a bone stock car is always good for beginners like me.

The only difference in the AL+ over the GR+ is the aluminum. (Alot lighter and less corrosion which is good for people up north like me)

Stock is ok if you want to win an easy class. I prefer to have the tools to get the job done the best way possible though haha. Sure I can learn how to put a nail in using a wrench, but why not do it with a hammer instead? I didn't want to race stock, I find having a more prepped car is fun, but to each his own.

[Silverbullet]

So it sounds like your having trouble with a little too much oversteer with the LSD? Nismo 1.5 way is not that aggressive and i would imagine it is perfect for autocrossing. Try running a stock rear sway bar or even no rear swaybar. The 240's rear geometry has excessive anti-squat and the thick sway bar just might be too much for you.

One thing is for sure. Do NOT go with a VLSD! If you really feel the need for something less locking, go with the S15 HLSD like someone above has mentioned.

[0wn3r]

So it sounds like your having trouble with a little too much oversteer

I wish I had that problem.

[MrChow]

Uh this is a interesting thread. I'm just going to chime in with I've know and have done.

First off I have a S14 with Stance GR+ Pro, Whiteline F/R sways bars Nismo 1.5 LSD, Bembo blanks, SS lines portfield RS4 pads and just okay clean brake fluid.

I do good amount of auto-x. I'm in the DSP class just because of my wheels which are 17x9 with 245/40 tires normally. Bleh didn't know about the classes till I started auto-x's
Anyways I normally do really well in my class I'll rank 4-7 place, within 0.8 sec from the best in the class. ANYWAYS I pretty well IMO. Mostly my friend help me he's an instructor at Skip Barter. God do I want to take a racing class.

I know what of thing I was taught was I'm either on the gas or braking never off of either. Every turn ever has there own type of braking type. I dunno..
Also my alignment F*** up. Well at least the rears are the the front is Camber 1.8 and toe and caster are stock. My coils are set as well as I can do without corner balancing. Also most of the time my strut are set at like 4 or 3.

Moving on. This some weird thing about how to brake... I know there are different turns for when you brake and get back on the gas. Like everyone said there a good amount info about auto-x. Not this clutching thing...

My 2 cents. This all I know I'm not pro this is just what I have done and learn. GL finding info.

[dongoesby]

Moving on. This some weird thing about how to brake... I know there are different turns for when you brake and get back on the gas. Like everyone said there a good amount info about auto-x. Not this clutching thing...

My 2 cents. This all I know I'm not pro this is just what I have done and learn. GL finding info.

Now that is short. thanks hahah. More info on the whiteline sway bar, adjustable endlinks?
I run STX which I think I don't belong. With the mod I listed above, I only have stock size tires, I should run G-Stock.

[MrChow]

Yeah I have Adjustable endlinks for the front and the rear are the adjustable ones that some with them with the bushings.
I kinda want to switch these out for ones like yours. Just to try them out.

http://zilvia.net/f/motorsports/33522-240sx-scca-solo-ii-classification.html
No your in the right class.

Also you may want to upgrade your tires and wheels. It helps... A lot IMO. From stock I when to some 17x7.5 Buddy Club with FM901 tires and then some other stuff. I've gone through some tires testing them out for myself and seeing what I like for what I do. But going from stock to the 17' was big different to me. That also could be your understeering problem your feeling.

I can tell you this. I was on 17x9 with 245/40/17 ST115 tires that were down to the medal from camber wear really bad.. So I just switch up to my spares 16x6.5 or 7 (I can't remember atm) with some random tires that were "pretty good" my friend told since I let him use my old wheels. The tires are 205/55/16 I redid the PSI even and the tires feel like crap. They scary me when I'm taking one of my off ramp where I could take it at 65 and not know it was 65. I did a drift to see what would happen wow was that dumb, basically at the end after countering were you should start going straight again it broke out quickly again.. I dunno. That sidewall just caves in to the pressure. And remember my strut are set to soft 3 or 4 in the front and 3 or 2 in the rear.
I played with my coilover set aka preload and stiffness for over a month basically once a week.

[0wn3r]

My coils are set as well as I can do without corner balancing.

Are you saying corner balancing is not important for everyone or you just feel it isn't for your own personal driving?

[MrChow]

Are you saying corner balancing is not important for everyone or you just feel it isn't for your own personal driving? Did I?? :tweak:

No I've stating that I haven't done it yet. Remember everything I posted is what I've done or learned and I'm not saying for people to follow it. There a lot of thing I haven't done to my car that I wish I could do. Getting arms to fix my alignment, strut bar to get less chassis twist, corner balancing etc etc.

Like I said. This is what I've done and I saying anything about people doing what I've done.

[RanciD]

Well there's a ton of misinformation in this thread but the gist of it is correct. Your understeer is most likely because you're going entry is too fast. It's one of the most common mistakes when you start autocrossing, we have all done it.

Some advice on braking: forget disengaging the clutch while braking. This is a technique used for drifting. I suppose you could call this a difference of opinions but you'd be pretty hard pressed to find anyone else in the autocross world who uses this method. Heel-toe downshifting/rev matching exists for the very purpose of avoiding shocking the drivetrain. It's something you want to avoid. Fortunately in autocross this generally isn't something you need to worry about. As you said, you clutch in once during a run to shift into second. 90% of the time this is the only time you should be clutching in. The other 10% is for courses that may require third gear. Engine braking isn't going to slow the car any more than your brakes are capable of alone. There is brake biasing valve to make sure all four tires are doing their job. You don't need to fight it.

So with that said stick to braking hard in a straight line for now, then release the brake entirely and start your turn in. At this point you don't want to be accelerating but if you aren't on the throttle at all you will still be engine braking. You want to be at the point on the throttle where you're neither decelerating nor accelerating, just coasting through the turn. As you begin to unwind the wheel coming out of the turn start to get on the gas. The more you unwind the wheel the harder you can press the throttle. Somewhere down the line you may want to attempt trail braking which means balancing braking while your turning in. You do about 80% of your braking in a straight line then gradually release the brake, start your turn in and increase your steering angle until you're completely off the brakes. There is again no clutching involved in this technique. For now keep it simple and stick to getting it done in a straight line.

Remember it's more important to exit a turn fast than enter it fast. If you enter too fast you understeer and are forced to scrub speed to make the turn on a less than ideal line. If you instead do the proper amount of braking and enter a little slower you can put yourself on a line to begin accelerating earlier, thus coming out of the corner faster. This is extra speed you'll carry down every straightaway, no matter how short or long, on the track. A little bit here and there adds up, especially in a sport that's typically won or lost by fractions of a second.

Good luck :)

[MrChow]

Tires: stock size summer tires 35 psi front and rear
Suspension: Stance GR+ Pro stiffness-13 fr -10 rr (out of 15 max), no struct bars fr and rr, pretty thick front and rear sway bars (tanabe from last owner)
Alignment: 0 toe, approx 0 fr camber and -2~3 rr
Here's the real reasons.. He has understeer...

Stock size summer tires with suspension on almost on full stiff. The tires can't even give the grip you want if the suspension is that hard. On an auto-x you want roll. You need to transfer the weight so you have traction.

Also are you sure your alignment right?? approx 0 fr camber???

Fix those 2 and then you should be a lot better.

[dori_sil8t]

i have been to an autox event, very tight course with some wide turns and one straight away. i found my 1.5 diff to be useless i have to keep it in second gear at all times. i was allllll over the course, tires smashn fenders. tight u's the the front end plow'd. i had a awsome time tho. cant complian tho megan tracks n everything megan underneath.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii46/dori_240sx/104084216_8mjbwZ7Q_KLIN0967.jpg

[ericcastro]

Some advice on braking: forget disengaging the clutch while braking. This is a technique used for drifting. I suppose you could call this a difference of opinions but you'd be pretty hard pressed to find anyone else in the autocross world who uses this method. Heel-toe downshifting/rev matching exists for the very purpose of avoiding shocking the drivetrain.............Engine braking isn't going to slow the car any more than your brakes are capable of alone. There is brake biasing valve to make sure all four tires are doing their job. You don't need to fight it.


This is definatly a difference of opinion. Disengaging the clutch when done at the proper time will greatly increase your car control. On larger road courses you would be heel toe downshifting. But since your just in second gear, you can push the clutch in and have the 1.5 disengage and stop pushing you for a second. You also can slowly let it out and get the car to slow faster.

I garentee you that you will slow down more controled and faster if you do a little engine brake.
It would seem that the regular brakes should stop you fastest, but they dont. Ask any drifter that has a substantion amount of track time under thier belt, and they will tell you that brakeing with a ebrake will slow you down much faster. (thats why you always see them lock em up and still yank the ebrake up).
So dont discount a bit of engine brakeing.
when your there, you will be able to do it without thinking.

Also just an extra alot of people dont know. If you spin out and are sliding to a stop backwards, the regular brakes wont stop shit. lock em up, and then pull up that ebrake. You will instantly stop by comparison. (more proof the regular brakes dont lock the back as hard. I believe there made to not lock as hard, so normal drivers dont spin out when stopping fast)

my :2c:

and i agree with the other stuff dude said. just slow it down coming in.