Lost in a world of swaps...

[Pblesh85]

Ok so I thought I had my mind made up when I decided to go ka-t with my newly acquired 97' virgin s14 with 115k on the clock.

After posting on how can I mate a six speed to the ka24de, and then calling leathal injection to fab up some stuff for me. Im now lost in a world of different swaps.

I spoke to derek for a while about how to mate a z33 trans to the ka, and then about building a ka-t for 400~450whp. He told me that it would not be a problem. Then he started talking about other swaps that he had done. Mainly about the ls2 the swaped into the s14. You know the one everyone on youtube has seen.

Well seeing as how my goal is 400~450whp and the ls2 they swapped in has over 400whp in almost stock form and is lighter than a ka.... it seems like a pretty good swap and is already a 6 speed.

The only real thing keeping me from making up my mind about doing the swap is loosing the feel of the s-chassis. Ive never driven a 240sx with a v8 in it and do not know if it still feels like a 240sx. I had 320whp in my first fastback and I own an 01 z28 wish makes 315 na. I do not know how 400+ na whp feels.

Ive always wanted to have a car that Best Motoring would praise for driveability on their touge(yes I realize that will never happen). So if anyone has any thoughts on this please help me make my mind up.

If I do go ls2 I will be upgrading the heads(cams, gears, double wound springs, retainers, oversized valves, port and polish, ect...) and keeping the possibility for forced induction open.

[az_240]

ls1 or ls2 would be your best bet IMO. KA weighs almost as much as an ls1 so handling does not change a whole lot I heard....not sure about ls2.

There is a ton of info on this... search

[rb25_s13*CHUKI]

Ooooooooooooooooo Your a fan boy!!! Oh lets go v8 like everyone else yayaya!! Now who do I sound like? Most everyone on zilvia when you talk about doing a Sr swap.. Why don't you guys flame him?

On a serious note.. I say stick with the Ka-t..

[Pblesh85]

Flame me ??? Flame you for putting a rb into an s chassis.

Im just looking for input from people who have done v8 swaps before. Not people who are close minded.

[fliprayzin240sx]

I have had a 350whp SR, currently has that should be making over 400hp S14 but also have 3 friends who have the LSx swap in their S14. I like the feel of the V8 more cuz of the torque. Making 315whp with 360 ft/lbs on stock trim isnt too shabby, specially when its stock. I think if your goal is 400hp and absolutely reliable, I think LSx would the way to go. The initial cost may be higher but you wont need much to hit your power goal.

PS: Having 26 mpg hwy aint too shabby with the 6speed.

[Pblesh85]

I have had a 350whp SR, currently has that should be making over 400hp S14 but also have 3 friends who have the LSx swap in their S14. I like the feel of the V8 more cuz of the torque. Making 315whp with 360 ft/lbs on stock trim isnt too shabby, specially when its stock. I think if your goal is 400hp and absolutely reliable, I think LSx would the way to go. The initial cost may be higher but you wont need much to hit your power goal.

PS: Having 26 mpg hwy aint too shabby with the 6speed.



That was the selling point from derek. I need a reliable power source, and ka-t is not 100%(depending on how you do it).

Plus I think the ls2 has more potential.

[rb25_s13*CHUKI]

Flame me ??? Flame you for putting a rb into an s chassis.

Im just looking for input from people who have done v8 swaps before. Not people who are close minded.

Just yanking everyones balls today.. Nothing personal. I'm probably gonna get pinked today... Ls2 swap are Badass I'm just a 4 cylinder kinda guy..

[renegade_ewok]

I bet if you swap in an LSX with just an exhaust youll be more than satisfied for a few months unless you've driven a faster car. Dropping an LSX in an S chassis is like instant low 12 second car/torque monster.

[Mangudai]

I love the LS engines..just hate how V8's sound

[bbejj123]

^^ i think thats the first time ive heard someone say that they hate the how the v8 sounds...

but yeah id say go with the LSx its gonna be expensive but i cant imagine building a ka-t for 400whp and making a 6spd tranny for it will be cheap either
....i actually recently asked for a quote for an ls1 and it turned out to be around 10k but u might be able to get it cheaper
... also for the LSx it will have better mpg and it wont be as hard to get the power ur looking to get.
the ka-t will probably be boosting pretty significantly which will beat on the motor
and the LSx wont be as much to maintain and it is a newer motor and will probably be more reliable (although it is made by chevy =/)

but thats just my 2 cents =) good luck with whichever u do keep us updated

[soreballz]

I love the LS engines..just hate how V8's sound
That is possibly one of the strangest things I've ever read. But fyi, the way most people set up the exhausts on the LSx swapped S-chassis cars, they sound alot like a KA (no long tube headers or x-pipe).

[Pblesh85]

^^ i think thats the first time ive heard someone say that they hate the how the v8 sounds...

but yeah id say go with the LSx its gonna be expensive but i cant imagine building a ka-t for 400whp and making a 6spd tranny for it will be cheap either
....i actually recently asked for a quote for an ls1 and it turned out to be around 10k but u might be able to get it cheaper
... also for the LSx it will have better mpg and it wont be as hard to get the power ur looking to get.
the ka-t will probably be boosting pretty significantly which will beat on the motor
and the LSx wont be as much to maintain and it is a newer motor and will probably be more reliable (although it is made by chevy =/)

but thats just my 2 cents =) good luck with whichever u do keep us updated


I was quite anti american swap at first but a reliable, powerful swap with a high potential is winning right now. Im going to be using my deployment money to fund this build. As soon as I do my five speed swap I will start my build thread(a few weeks from now). Im going to start with suspension, and so on.

[Max_PSi]

Here's my friends build in his 97 Kouki.

Import FanatiX Car Club (http://www.importfanatix.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5534)

I will say, considering the LSx's weight compared to the KA's, its a good swap that won't adversly effect our car's handling.

[Pblesh85]

I love the LS engines..just hate how V8's sound



Thats funny, there is a new gto where I work that has a straight through exhaust that sounds like it eats hondas... literly.

It can be heard from a mile away, its pretty sexy.

[JVD]

I love the LS engines..just hate how V8's sound

LOL

Wrecked Magazine - Videos - Aaron Losey and the Cooper Tires Pontiac Solstice do battle (http://www.wreckedmagazine.com/watchvideo/aaron-losey-and-the-cooper-tires-pontiac-sols)

[RUTH'LESSDET]

Here's my friends build in his 97 Kouki.

Import FanatiX Car Club (http://www.importfanatix.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5534)

I will say, considering the LSx's weight compared to the KA's, its a good swap that won't adversly effect our car's handling.


If you got the $$ ls2 is the way to go trust me!!!
Torque rules!! I have power in every gear no matter what rpm!! No waiting for turbo's to spool, parts are more than easy to buy, dont get me wrong i love rb's, & sr's(I hate Ka's) they are good motors too

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/ruthlessdet/GTO%20SWAP/IMG_6898.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/ruthlessdet/GTO%20SWAP/IMG_6901.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/ruthlessdet/GTO%20SWAP/IMG_6900.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/ruthlessdet/GTO%20SWAP/IMG_6899.jpg

[bbejj123]

If you got the $$ ls2 is the way to go trust me!!!
Torque rules!! I have power in every gear no matter what rpm!!



omg sick ass car!!! the things i would do for a car like that :naughty:

[raen419]

Where are you guys getting the idea that the LSx motors weigh less than the KA? It has 2x the pistons/cylinders, one more head, and is 2.375-2.911 times bigger in displacement. It may be all aluminum, but aluminum isn't half the weight of iron, last I checked. And I've yet to see any valid evidence of such.
I'm not saying the whole LSx swap (T-56, mounts, driveshaft, etc) can't turn out to be lighter than the KA setup, but I'd like to see concrete evidence that the LSx engine itself is lighter than the KA. And yes, before anyone gets ill, I know of ALL the advantages of the LSx motors in our cars. I plan to do this or a VQ35 eventually anyway.

For now, take a peak:
Engine Swap Forum - Official Engine and Tranny Weight List (http://www.engineswaptech.com/forums/thread/1186.aspx) <---lists KA (330lbs), VQ35 (329lbs), and LS1, and others.
Motor Weight Comparison (http://www.funco-motorsports.com/motor_weights.htm)
LS1/6 Engine weight: Hybrids: Nissan Forums / Infiniti Forums - NICOclub (http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/288306)
WikiAnswers - What is the weight of a chevrolet LS1 engine (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_weight_of_a_chevrolet_LS1_engine)
MX-5 Miata Forum - LS1 vs 5.0 (http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/index.php/t-129320.html)

Ruth'lessdet, thats freakin' gorgeous.:bigok:

[bbejj123]

^^^ the lsx engine itself is not lighter than the ka engine but the whole setup which is what is usually meant because when u swap an engine u dont just swap engines u swap the rest of the drive train as well:naughty:

[fromxtor]

^^ Beat me too it, a block of alum has to weigh less than a block of steel...right? Wrong

[MrFairlady]

Damn Preston,...I hear ya.
GOing ALL Out on the New car w/ a totally Diff model Engine?? -though you couldn't even fix the little piddly stuff you had wrong on the car you sold me? Thats a step in the same direction you were already headed/in If you ask me.

Get ready for some REAL Problems there w/ what your trying to do on your NEw car,more-so than What you HAd.

[fueled by hate]

If you have the money I'd say don't throw it into a 4 banger. Go for the LS2. I was thinking about an LS2 swap a while back and I priced it out to about $12k I think, but it could be more depending on what you've done to your car already (suspension, a real lsd not the vlsd).

[fliprayzin240sx]

If you guys are interested on some LSx kits, I can refer some folks to a buddy of mine whos done this down in socal. He got a swap kit for it, just cant remember off the top of my head what it all comes with.

[JAYTRON]

You can get LSx swaps legit which is huge plus points against anything with "DET" at the end of it.

[MunsonAuto]

Okay, for the quick end of it, I am going to say go with a LSx swap, whether it be LS1, LS2, LS3 or even super duper LS7. Either way, you're going to be gaining gas mileage (assuming you run a T56 six speed, 4l60e (automatic) mileage is a little worse cause of the gear ratio, and i can attest to that), ridiculous amounts of torque and overall power ON TAP, no waiting for spooling; and most of all, GM reliability. If you take your time and make sure everything is right the first time you hook it up, you should have zero problems and a turn key setup that runs the same all the time and won't leave you stranded.

A little more in-depth if you care:
As far as the weight dispute goes, the complete LS1 w/T56 tranny IS LIGHTER!!! than a stock KA w/ auto tranny. According to Hinson supercars, the stock 240 KA w/ auto tranny and all accessories comes out to be 596lbs; also according to Hinson, the stock LS1 w/T56 and all accessories weighs in at 470lbs. That is a clear 126lbs lighter! Now, say, just for sh*ts and giggles you go for a budget build and run a 5.3l or a 6.0l LSx based engine (iron block and aluminum heads, generaly out of a silverado, avalanche etc.), the iron block has a solid 80lbs on the all aluminum LS series. So add 80lbs to 470lbs = 550lbs, still 46lbs lighter than the stock KA. Now say you add a 4l60e automatic tranny instead of the T56; the 4l60e has 40lbs on the T56. Sooo, add 40lbs to 470lbs (assuming you run a LS1), you're at 510lbs, still lighter than the stock KA setup. But what if you run a 5.3l or 6.0l w/ a 4l60e, oh no, must be heavier right? Wrong. Take your 550lb 5.3l or 6.0l and add your extra 40lbs for the 4l60e tranny, where does that put you? That will put you at a solid 590lbs, which is indeed 6lbs lighter than the stock KA, but really, 6lbs? That's not going to make that big of a difference, so:
LS1 w/T56 = 470lbs---Pretty damn good weight savings
LS1 w/4l60e = 510lbs---Not too shabby
5.3l or 6.0l w/ T56 = 550lbs---Still not bad
5.3l or 6.0l w/ 4l60e = 590lbs---Not really a weight savings, but double the power of your stock KA makes it well worth it.
References:
YouTube - Hinson Supercars - LS1 240SX S14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbBvBg02gHU)
GM Inside News Forum - Engine Guide (http://www.gminsidenews.com/index.php?page=Engine_Guide) (give it time to load)
GM Inside News Forum - Transmission Guide (http://www.gminsidenews.com/index.php?page=trans_guide)

As far as power goes, I could get into it, but for stock figures which I think is what you're looking for first off (then add mods down the road, excuse me if I'm wrong though) I'll just go the easy route and do this:
GM LS engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine)

Now for reliability.
According to Will Handzel's book, How to Build High Performance Chevy LS1/LS6 V-8's J.D. Power & Associates survey said that GM's LS based engines produced a rating of 9 problems per 100 engines manufactured. That means that only 9 engines out of every 100 made had some sort of defect or problem. To put that into perspective, Will's book also states that Ford's 5.4l V8 had a rating of 17 problems per 100 engines made.
Now having grown up in a shop, and having been taught by a GM employed mechanic, GM employed body man and ASE certified father that specializes in GM engines, and having my own LS based swap I can tell you that these engines ARE one of the most reliable and toughest engines ever. We have serviced in our own shop many many 5.3l's and a few LS6's. The biggest problem with the 5.3l's is that the stock fuel pumps go bad, but that is solved with these swaps anyway being that you will run a Walbro 255. Another simple problem we see that arises with these powerplants is simply clogged injectors, but this tends to be on shop/work trucks that get lots of abuse and no cleaning. Other than that, we have never had a LS based V8 come to our shop blown up, the closest we've had is a destroyed water pump. Another somewhat funny example has to do with my swap. It was late, probably around midnight and we had started the engine the day before, so we were just tying up random things here and there. We found a vacuum line that needed to be hooked up, found a line on the car that resembled a vacuum line, so we connected the two. Later we started the engine and it was running good then it started to stumble and idle poorly, we also noticed fluid coming out of the header. So instantly we thought that it was a cracked block, but I put two and two together. We were not sure where the car vacuum line came from, and this fluid seemed to be blue, not green like the antifreeze we put in. Turns out that what we thought was a vacuum line was actually the windshield washer fluid line! But the engine still held idle even after running through windshield washer fluid! Good for it, no, but it still ran through it.
References:
Amazon.com: How to Build High-Performance Chevy LS1/LS6 V-8s: Modifying and Tuning Gen III Engines for GM Cars & Pickups (S-A Design): Will Handzel: Books (http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-High-Performance-Chevy-V-8s/dp/1884089844)

To kind of sum it up, I am very very pleased with my swap. I did more of a budget build and got a 2003 5.3l and a 4l60e auto tranny. I did all the fab work with my father, including the headers, mounts, everything. With my mounting I was able to run a stock 2002 steel camaro driveshaft, no cutting or resizing needed, all I had to do was make a custom yoke for the rear diff. Since I got the car running and driving the first day, it has never once left me stranded, never not started, and never not been fun to drive. I have had two autocrosses with the car and I actually to my surprise really like the 4l60e auto tranny, drop in 2 and leave it. Where as everyone else has to go back and forth from 1st to 2nd throughout the course. Daily driving with the auto is where it's at. Mileage isn't too bad, but my torque converter clutch switch isn't engaging correctly so the tranny doesn't shift into overdrive properly, but that is the ONLY problem I have had with this swap.

If you have the money to go LS2, DO IT!!!! You will not be one bit dissappointed and you can't beat the stock N/A power and reliability.

If you or anyone else has any questions about an LS based swap, please feel free to ask me as I have two giant files/folders of pictures from my swap, and a whole folder in "My Favorites" dedicated to LS swap info.

I hope this information helps you and others, and sorry for offending someone or wasting bandwidth or whatever if someone thinks I'm a noob or a stupid swapper ruining S-chassis vehicles.

-MunsonAuto

(P.S. Here's an exhaust clip and some pics for your motivation!) http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii272/MunsonAuto/?action=view&current=newexhaust.flv

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii272/MunsonAuto/DSC04912.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii272/MunsonAuto/DSC04926.jpg

I personally would rather not have the hood scoop, but due to running the 5.3l avalanche DBW (drive by wire) throttle body I had to because at the time we didn't feel we could make the mounts any lower. But the LS2 DBW throttle body is a different style and sits lower, thus not needing this "redneck mod" haha.
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii272/MunsonAuto/1.jpg

[Mangudai]

I know it sounds strange but eh..just never been into it.

[sac]

GO LS1 or LS2. weight savings is sweet! and power.. um.. i will say if you set it up stock you will probably get 12-15mpg your first couple of tanks cause you will be flooring the thing everywhere. ITS SO DAMN FUN! but you will actually get between 26-32mpg on highway. With a cam and long tube headers and properly flowing exhaust you will see about 400whp and 400ftlbs. Which is PLENTY fast for a street car of 2700lbs.

[SlideWell]

screw em all, 1JZ swap ;)

[1989rps13]

honestly an ls1 in a 240sx sounds seriously retarded. For me it just doesnt look right/ sound right. Yes it is kickass instantaneous power without having to wait for turbo. But im all in for the rb and sr swaps.

[1989rps13]

screw em all, 1JZ swap ;)

yea might as well go 2jz in the s14 rather than ls and that would just be me. Do what u gonna do just voicing my opinion

[raen419]

^^^ the lsx engine itself is not lighter than the ka engine but the whole setup which is what is usually meant because when u swap an engine u dont just swap engines u swap the rest of the drive train as well:naughty:
I'm well aware of that.
But I'd like to know how Hinson Supercars got 470lbs for a LS1/T-56 combo when the stock motor weighs 490lbs according to GM, and weighs in at 450-503lbs elsewhere. Was Hinson's LS1 fully dressed, or was it just a long block? And how can the T-56 weigh only 20lbs or less? It can't.

I'm not arguing that the ENTIRE SWAP is lighter (as I don't doubt that it could be), but I'd like to know if anyone has concrete numbers....which no one has produced. Hinson's numbers haven't been backed up w/ actual pics on a scale have they? If so, I'd like to see them, b/c I searched their site and came up w/ nothing. I also fail to understand why Hinson compared a KA w/ A/T to a LS1/T-56. I realize thats what their first S14 came with, but if you want an accurate comparison, do KA/MT : LS1/MT, not KA/AT : LS1/MT.

[gregfarz78]

Where did hinsen get their numbers from the LS1 engine alone is about 460lbs with all the trimmings thats not including the monster T56 trans.

http://www.gregfarz.com/private/d/3255-1/LS1+Weight.JPG

KA is about 370lbs 240SX KA24DE Engine Weight: KA24ET / KA24DET Forum: Nissan Forums / Infiniti Forums - NICOclub (http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/299879)

[S14DB]

A little more in-depth if you care:
As far as the weight dispute goes, the complete LS1 w/T56 tranny IS LIGHTER!!! than a stock KA w/ auto tranny. According to Hinson supercars, the stock 240 KA w/ auto tranny and all accessories comes out to be 596lbs; also according to Hinson, the stock LS1 w/T56 and all accessories weighs in at 470lbs. That is a clear 126lbs lighter! Now, say, just for sh*ts and giggles you go for a budget build and run a 5.3l or a 6.0l LSx based engine (iron block and aluminum heads, generaly out of a silverado, avalanche etc.), the iron block has a solid 80lbs on the all aluminum LS series. So add 80lbs to 470lbs = 550lbs, still 46lbs lighter than the stock KA. Now say you add a 4l60e automatic tranny instead of the T56; the 4l60e has 40lbs on the T56. Sooo, add 40lbs to 470lbs (assuming you run a LS1), you're at 510lbs, still lighter than the stock KA setup. But what if you run a 5.3l or 6.0l w/ a 4l60e, oh no, must be heavier right? Wrong. Take your 550lb 5.3l or 6.0l and add your extra 40lbs for the 4l60e tranny, where does that put you? That will put you at a solid 590lbs, which is indeed 6lbs lighter than the stock KA, but really, 6lbs? That's not going to make that big of a difference, so:
LS1 w/T56 = 470lbs---Pretty damn good weight savings
LS1 w/4l60e = 510lbs---Not too shabby
5.3l or 6.0l w/ T56 = 550lbs---Still not bad
5.3l or 6.0l w/ 4l60e = 590lbs---Not really a weight savings, but double the power of your stock KA makes it well worth it.I've handled a T56, 4L60E, AODE and a RE4R01.

KA MT weighs 100lbs.
T56 130lbs.

4L60E weighs 175 lbs wet weight of 4L60E transmission ?? - Corvette Forum (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1948482)
RE4R01 weighs 140lbs wet

So, a KA's auto is lighter then a 4L60E.

KA weighs 370lbs
LS2 weighs 460lbs


KA+Auto = 510lbs
LS2+4L60E = 635lbs
Then add the 80lbs of the Iron Block, 715lbs

How is your setup lighter? Even if I believed your math it's still 80lbs heavier not 6 lbs lighter. But by my weights and calculations you are sitting at 205lbs more.

[chibo]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/chibo/142053457-M.jpg?t=1223324440

[issac]

I say do the ls swap. Fun, reliable, instant low end torque, minor mods will create even more POWER, FUN!!!!!


Anybody else who says otherwise
A. cant afford it
B. automatic "hater"
C.GayDM confused
D. trendy follower
E. sucks at life

The bottom line is you should always tune your car for ear to ear smiling. And always have the most FUN behind the wheel possible. Enjoy driving your investment instead of repairing it frequently. Plus the swap can be legitimized.:2f2f:Good luck.

[raen419]

Chibo and S14DB, thanks.
I've grown very tired of people not using their brains when people throw out some idiotic statement like "The KA/SR weigh more than the LS1" w/o showing any proof to back up such an ignorant claim.

[Pblesh85]

Well it seems that most of the people on here are in favor of the swap. Im already ebay hunting and looking for some forums to source some stuff.

Im 99% sure im going through with it. But im leaving the ka alone til after xmas. I need to drive home and back(NC to CA) and do not want to run into problems along the way. But if someone will buy my wheels I can get the ball rolling a bit quicker.