6 speed ka24de ???

[Pblesh85]

Ive pretty much decided I want to build a ka-t. I have pretty high goals for my project and want 400~450 whp on pump gas with torque to match or at least close to it, and all on a SAFE RELIABLE boost setting.

Im aware that the z32 swap is the way to go for oem transmission swaps for an sr(at least if you do not want to get flamed for bringing up an s15 6 speed :tardrim:).

Well I have a few questions if you all would not mind helping.

Does mazworks make a z32 kit for the ka(or anyone else) ?

Are there any OEM 6 SPEED transmissions that can be bolted up to a ka ? Like a t56 or z33 ? Something that is easy to come by or cheap if you had to replace it or parts on it.

The reason I ask is because im a tight ass on spending my money. I have another deployment(iraq here I come) comming up in 6 months and will have about 7~10 to spend on my motor. Well I want to get my motor and drivetrain finished with that budget. I would love to buy a nismo/hks/os/whatever 6 speed, but im not "special olympic" enough to drop 12~20k on a transmission for a street car. I also prefere a 6 speed to a 5 speed.

So any input is wecome.


I read on another post that Xcessive made a z33 6 speed swap for the ka but I could not find it.

[808_s13]

this sounds like a very intersting project.
i too want to go Ka-T, but idk about the
6 speed part. sounds pricey. And for the Xessive
z33 swap, i bet there was alot of modification to make that work.

-makua[ace]

[Nikeboy355]

I'm working on the KA 6 speed tranny project after I get my car back from getting it's cage...
Using a Z33 350Z six speed tranny that I got from someone who worked at a Nissan dealership...

I spoke to Mazworz and they can cut you the adapter for and machine the bell housing so it can fit... Together I'm guessing he would charge about $650 for that...
The shifter would sit about 4" too far back so you would have to make a custom bracket for the shifter as well as a custom rear tranny bracket...
A custom driveshaft ofcourse...
There is no speed sensor on the transmission...

But I think I can make it work...
It's far from bolt on so I'm guessing that's why they never made it as a kit...
They would have to sell it for like $1500 or more...

[Pblesh85]

How close are you to making it run ? Also when I called them about the same kit for an sr they said two things.

1. the z33 bellhousing was too wide for the s13 transmission tunnel(I have an s14 now so im not sure if the tunnel is bigger or not).

2. the splines for the transmission were a little off centered when mated to the sr.

Thats why I never bought the sr kit they make.

[Ali 556]

FYI

T-56 (From A Viper Or A Vette Or A Camaro) Is 2600$ Brand New.....Used They Are 1200-2000$

Z33 Trany Don't worth it....you will shift way toooo often and with your 4.08 rear end...boy oh boy you will hate the car....

Supra Gatreg V160-V161 Is The Real Deal...That Thing Handel 1400whp 8.49s 1/4 mile run's easy.....Granted it's 5255$ for a brand new new trany and 3000-3500$ for a used one...

If i were you i'd invest in q45 3.55 (90-96) or 3.69(97-01) rear end and you will get the kick out of your KA-T...

Oh and cory's 563whp S13 hase a STOCK Ka Tran's....

$$$/benift KA trans > ALL (b/c it's cheap)

Ali

[irax]

FYI

T-56 (From A Viper Or A Vette Or A Camaro) Is 2600$ Brand New.....Used They Are 1200-2000$

Z33 Trany Don't worth it....you will shift way toooo often and with your 4.08 rear end...boy oh boy you will hate the car....

Supra Gatreg V160-V161 Is The Real Deal...That Thing Handel 1400whp 8.49s 1/4 mile run's easy.....Granted it's 5255$ for a brand new new trany and 3000-3500$ for a used one...

If i were you i'd invest in q45 3.55 (90-96) or 3.69(97-01) rear end and you will get the kick out of your KA-T...

Oh and cory's 563whp S13 hase a STOCK Ka Tran's....

$$$/benift KA trans > ALL (b/c it's cheap)

Ali

the 6speed transmission from the truck VQ dimensionally very close to stock KA and the shifter would be in the correct location.

and NO you wouldn't be constantly shifting the 350z guys switch the rear end for a 4.08 out of the Q45 and they say that first gear is almost usless for anything but burning rubber.

[s13dan]

I would say stick with the stock tranny any just lower the rear end gears. Ali is correct, for cheapness stock tranny is fine. And if your goal is 400-450 then there are plenty of ppl making that without massive projects to have a different trans.

[Ali 556]

and NO you wouldn't be constantly shifting the 350z guys switch the rear end for a 4.08 out of the Q45 and they say that first gear is almost usless for anything but burning rubber.

oh rely,

Then why Rear end on 6-spd supra is 3.13 (usdm) and 3.26(JDM) And Auto Are 3.72

OP,

go to ka-t.org and see alot of ppl are 400+whp on the stock trany

sure hope this help,

ali

[SlideWell]

:keke:oh rely,

so why guys with auto supra who swap the auto into 6-speed say that the 3.72 rear end on supra's make the 1st and 2nd gear useless...?

oh and the rear end on 6-spd supra is 3.13 (usdm) and 3.26(JDM)

OP,

go to ka-t.org and see alot of ppl are 400+whp on the stock trany

sure hope this help,

ali

400+hp on a stock trans? sure, its easy, just buy a new one every so often. let alone your bottom end, shit wont last past 400 for long. even at 350whp ur gonna burn thru trans

[Nikeboy355]

The Z33 six speed is just as strong or stronger than the Z32 5 speed... Others have taken them apart to take a good look at them...

The input shaft on the Z33 six speed is identical to the KA and SR....

The truck VQ tranny rear shifter bracket fits on the Z33 tranny to make up for the 4" longer situation or you might be able to just buy the VQSwap.com shifter bracket which already includes a short shifter... No idea on pricing but it can't be that much...

http://vqswap.com/db5/00473/vqswap.com/_uimages/DSC01164.JPG

The stock Z33 rear end has a 3.53 final drive whereas the S13/4 have a 4.08 (in most cases)... With the Z33 transmission and a stock S13/4 final drive it will make an effective final drive of a 4.6...
A higher final drive means faster acceleration through the gears (and remember there is one more gear now) but a lower top speed...

For a roadcourse racer like me it's perfect... We aren't running much top speed anyways...

The S13/4 tranny tunnels are big enough for the Z33 housing... Don't forget that people are running full VQ swaps already without touching the tunnel... The bellhousing is bigger though and even Mazworx said it wouldn't fit in their machine so they would have to machine it by hand...

And the Z33 is strong!... Bulletproof for my NA KA project...
I'll never have to replace my transmission again... And since my Z33 trans only has 8K on it, It will feel like driving a new car...
S13/4 transmissions are getting old now and rebuilding one costs about $800... I'd rather adapt this...

Right now I am rebuilding the motor as my cage is getting finished... I have a super clean tranny already... It won't be another month until I start looking at getting this done... I'll keep everyone updated ofcourse...

[240sxvaj]

i wanna see some vids of a 6 speed KA ;)

[Pblesh85]

So with the z33 trans on a ka24de would it be possible to have a tach, speedo, and reverse lights ?

[Ali 556]

Dunno,

All I Know That The Real trany to hold big Hp Is either a rebuilt T-56 Or A V160 Trany From A 6-spd Supra....

Example :

YouTube - WOTM Supra in car video - [email protected] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eATX_Y_5mC8)

YouTube - Darin's Supra [email protected] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2gtvAw9q7Y)

And

YouTube - Darin's Supra 6 speed record (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2a1dXiCbOw)

YouTube - Street Dodge Viper twin turbo 1700hp drag race. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IOpuGVoyCk)

Can You Hear The "BOOM" At 00:50 That What 1700HP Sound Like Son...:bigok:

Oh And What Is The Fastest 6spd 350Z Record In The 1/4 Mile.....?

Ali

[Pblesh85]

FYI

T-56 (From A Viper Or A Vette Or A Camaro) Is 2600$ Brand New.....Used They Are 1200-2000$

Z33 Trany Don't worth it....you will shift way toooo often and with your 4.08 rear end...boy oh boy you will hate the car....

Supra Gatreg V160-V161 Is The Real Deal...That Thing Handel 1400whp 8.49s 1/4 mile run's easy.....Granted it's 5255$ for a brand new new trany and 3000-3500$ for a used one...

If i were you i'd invest in q45 3.55 (90-96) or 3.69(97-01) rear end and you will get the kick out of your KA-T...

Oh and cory's 563whp S13 hase a STOCK Ka Tran's....

$$$/benift KA trans > ALL (b/c it's cheap)

Ali

Im probably going to do my five speed swap soon to get rid of my damn auto(again). Im sure I will start off with a ka trans. Ive just never messed with the ka much so I do not know its strengths or weaknesses. I just know its cheap and easy to find.

I own an 01 z28 camero with a t56 in it. It has a really close ratio gear set but im ok with it. I also owned an sti which has a 4.11(or around there) ratio. I just prefere a 6 speed over a 5 speed.

I like to auto cross and drift so I always want to have my max power band. Shifting is fun, plus a 6 speed ka24det would be a fun setup, and orig.

[Pblesh85]

Dunno,

All I Know That The Rea trany to hold big Hp Is either a rebuilt T-56 Or A V160 Trany From A 6-spd Supra....

Example :

YouTube - WOTM Supra in car video - [email protected] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eATX_Y_5mC8)

YouTube - Darin's Supra [email protected] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2gtvAw9q7Y)

And

YouTube - Darin's Supra 6 speed record (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2a1dXiCbOw)

YouTube - Street Dodge Viper twin turbo 1700hp drag race. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IOpuGVoyCk)

Can You Hear The "BOOM" At 00:50 That What 1700HP Sound Like Son...:bigok:

Oh And What Is The Fastest 6spd 350Z Record In The 1/4 Mile.....?

Ali

drag racing is cool to do once in a blue moon but its not my thing. I just want a power band and a 6 speed.

[vvtisupra]

We test fitted the Z32 tranny onto the ka-t of the Federal S13 car. We used the mazzworks kit i believe.

[Pblesh85]

We test fitted the Z32 tranny onto the ka-t of the Federal S13 car. We used the mazzworks kit i believe.

did it line up or start up ? could you shift ?

[Ali 556]

Im probably going to do my five speed swap soon to get rid of my damn auto(again). Im sure I will start off with a ka trans. Ive just never messed with the ka much so I do not know its strengths or weaknesses. I just know its cheap and easy to find.

I own an 01 z28 camero with a t56 in it. It has a really close ratio gear set but im ok with it. I also owned an sti which has a 4.11(or around there) ratio. I just prefere a 6 speed over a 5 speed.

I like to auto cross and drift so I always want to have my max power band. Shifting is fun, plus a 6 speed ka24det would be a fun setup, and orig.

Cool,

IIRC From Ka-t.org alot of guys say the trany handel drifting-auto croos easy.....what kill the trany is lunching (Drag lunching) from a Dig.....

Also In Drifting And Auto Cross you don't to shift too often...alot of LSx Swaped S13/S14 Invest in Q45 Diff....B/c Drifting In 4th Gear Is Crazy( LS1 S14 Drift car)....

So Go With A Stock Trany And See What Happen,

Regards,

Ali

[((sr)) kelly]

get a silvia S15 tranny and swap bellhousings.. it will work, but you will grenade it eventually

[ross.cottrill]

can you get a s15 tranny and swap the s13 bellhousing and still use your s13 clutch?

[((sr)) kelly]

you can just use the s15 tranny... dont need to swap anything... blocks are fairly identical

[Z U L8R]

i have a z32 5 speed on my ka-t datsun 510. our fabricator could take the 2 bellhousings and mate them so it'll bolt right up on any of the transmissions you've mentioned, and as far as the splines on the input shaft , our clutch guy could build a custom clutch for it as well. it's all possible, it just depends on how much you have to work with on this project. i chose the 5 speed z32 instead of the 6 spd z33 because the 510'll be a daily/drag car and i didn't want the extra gears. we also have an s13 rear subframe /w z32 diff in the 510 as well. befriend a good fabricator and your options increase =]

Dave @ Lethal Injection Motorsports

[Pblesh85]

Is there any chance you could get a quote on how much it would cost to mate a z33 to a ka24de and get it to shift right.

Would it be possible to have a working tach ?

[Z U L8R]

the tranny for these applictions won't affect the tach working but if what you meant is working speedo then that too is not a huge hurdle that can't be tackled.

no sweat, pm sent

Dave

[((sr)) kelly]

there is a speed sensor in the tranny.. at the end of the sensor is a gear that sticks in the tranny..that is what sends the signal to the speedo..any aftermarket speedo would work, and i dont see why the stock one wouldnt either

[Fonix36]

I have to say

Fucking Sick Shit........

[Pblesh85]

This sucks, cause now I want this to work and need to start buying stuff again.

I will call tomorrow.

[ross.cottrill]

i was told that the s15 has a deeper well bellhousing and youd have to get a different (s15)flywheel to make it work(sorry to thread jack).

[gregfarz78]

there is a speed sensor in the tranny.. at the end of the sensor is a gear that sticks in the tranny..that is what sends the signal to the speedo..any aftermarket speedo would work, and i dont see why the stock one wouldnt either

You talking about the z33 trans? If so this statement is not true the speed sensor is not on the trans

[!Zar!]

6 speed...

Why?

[cdlong]

6>5

that's why.

[Pblesh85]

6>5

that's why.


What he said ^

I prefere a 6 to a 5 for one, its more fun to drive.

Plus when you auto cross with a 6 speed you are always in your power band. The same when drifting. Its just what I learned on.

Plus when you take long drives its better for mpg.

[tastyratz]

so thinking about things... the s15 tranny is known as the glass tranny because the gears are thin and fragile right? Are there any other problems with it?
What about having new ones machined out of some stronger materials? what are the stock ones made of? I wonder if it can just be built up for a reasonable cost...

Could have nearly oem fitment and bolt right up with little to no adapting.

[cdlong]

glass is a bit of an over statement. it breaks sooner than a SR 5 speed because the gears are thinner to fit in the same space. how much sooner is yet to be seen, by me anyway, if someone can quantify it, i'd like to know.

you could cryo treat the gears. i doubt you'd get a much stronger material custom made for less cost than a better stronger transmission and mount kit.

[tastyratz]

Cryotreating them wont really increase strength. Cryotreating is an EXCELLENT way to reduce wear and fatigue. Synchros would last MUCH longer when cryotreated but gears would only really last longer if you grind them a lot (since gears wont usually wear otherwise).

From what I have heard the 6 speed tranny's don't hold up to extended levels of abuse, and anything over 250whp is pushing it on them (I wasn't the one to invent the nickname "glass tranny's) Most people don't go ka-t and stay under that level if they consider something like a 6 speed swap. I just wonder what the stock gears are made of and what it would cost to replace them with something stronger. I wish I could see some pictures of an sr tranny opened up.

[Om1kron]

facepalm... I don't understand what the point of a 6 speed on an engine designed for a 5 speed. People swap the s15 engine into 240's all the time, and there is a reason the 6 speed doesn't come along with it.

Honestly rowing 6 gears, do you like have people in your car and go watch this, and row from 5th to 6th and then top out at 110 mph? LOL while some guy farts by you in a civic hatchback cause he's doing the same speed halfway into 4th gear?

Sure it would be cool but the more and more I read about a 6 speed, I am against it. Sure the transmission is bulletproof, what happens when you do a sweet ass 3rd gear to 2nd gear trying to get it in 4th mis-shift. Will the engine it's matted to as well be bullet proof?

I guess people don't really think about these things.

This was the main death of the k20a2 motors in honda's was owners not knowing how to drive with a 6 gear, mission. Miss shifting and sending a piston through a block, and I can just picture the same thing happening but I guess someone will have to engineer the transmission swap itself.

It's hard for me to believe that any 240 owner is willing to spend almost 2 grand to have an extra gear on their transmission rather than 2 grand towards upgraded turbo and proper tuning or suspension components. But hey to each his own!

[Pblesh85]

facepalm... I don't understand what the point of a 6 speed on an engine designed for a 5 speed. People swap the s15 engine into 240's all the time, and there is a reason the 6 speed doesn't come along with it.

Honestly rowing 6 gears, do you like have people in your car and go watch this, and row from 5th to 6th and then top out at 110 mph? LOL while some guy farts by you in a civic hatchback cause he's doing the same speed halfway into 4th gear?

Sure it would be cool but the more and more I read about a 6 speed, I am against it. Sure the transmission is bulletproof, what happens when you do a sweet ass 3rd gear to 2nd gear trying to get it in 4th mis-shift. Will the engine it's matted to as well be bullet proof?

I guess people don't really think about these things.

This was the main death of the k20a2 motors in honda's was owners not knowing how to drive with a 6 gear, mission. Miss shifting and sending a piston through a block, and I can just picture the same thing happening but I guess someone will have to engineer the transmission swap itself.

It's hard for me to believe that any 240 owner is willing to spend almost 2 grand to have an extra gear on their transmission rather than 2 grand towards upgraded turbo and proper tuning or suspension components. But hey to each his own!

Alot of people on here like the phrase "tried and proven". Thats cool, im a firm believer that if its not broken, dont fix it.

But have you ever owned a car with a six speed ? Not just driven, but owned it. I have had two cars with them and 5 or 6 with a five speed(4 240sx's). I like how the car feels with an extra gear. Im not trying to convince anyone to do it. I really dont care what you do to your car. You own it, and its yours to mess with.

I just want to try it out and see if "I think its worth it" or not.

[Om1kron]

No but of course to each his own, i'm really not knocking it. I'm just saying the money spent on R&D to make the car slower may not be so promising to you.

But hey it always takes that one person willing to spend the money to try something out and then from there it becomes cheaper when it's commonplace. But without the supply and demand there for such a thing to be done it would be an elite $$$ modification.

To answer your original question. No I have not owned any 6 gear cars, I've driven an IS250 and didn't even remember I had a 6th gear. I had it in 5th the whole time!

[Pblesh85]

No but of course to each his own, i'm really not knocking it. I'm just saying the money spent on R&D to make the car slower may not be so promising to you.

But hey it always takes that one person willing to spend the money to try something out and then from there it becomes cheaper when it's commonplace. But without the supply and demand there for such a thing to be done it would be an elite $$$ modification.

To answer your original question. No I have not owned any 6 gear cars, I've driven an IS250 and didn't even remember I had a 6th gear. I had it in 5th the whole time!

When I did my 5 speed swap in my coupe that I just sold, I always wanted to shift into 6th. Since I was used to driving my z28.

I feel a bit "incomplete" with out the extra gear.

[PRADOgy]

True 6 speed keeps it in the tourque bend...If your gona have low power then i think the 6 speed may be beneficial. But if your going to do big horsepower i think the gears being that much longer are better (drifting wise at least)

[twistedsymphony]

the number of gears is moot it has everything to do with the ratio.

the problem with the s15 transmission has nothing to do with the fact that it has 6 gears and everything to do with the fact that they crammed a 6-speed into a 5-speed housing (FWIW the early STi transmissions were the same deal).

If you have a rear end matched to your application then the number of gears in the transmission doesn't even matter.

Who ever was talking about people having problems shifting in a 6-speed over a 5... that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I have NEVER seen a 6-speed with a different shift pattern since on a 6-speed reverse is WAY off to one side or the other and usually has a lock out if the vehicle is in motion... meaning that while you're actually driving 1-5 all occupy the same EXACT location they would if it were a 5-speed. :2f2f:

The only real difference between a properly setup 6 speed and a similar 5 speed is that based on the radio differences they usually stick the "extra gear" between 1st and 2nd, for instance on the S15, and Sti Trans the top gear on the 5 speed and the 6 speed is essentially the same, your 0-60 times are longer because you have to shift twice, similarly your drag times would be a bit longer too.

on something like Auto-x or other track racing you're better off with a 6-speed like this because it fills the hole you normally get where 1st is too low and 2nd is too high.

On something like a t-56 1-5 are spaced normally (maybe a little tighter) and the top gear is really only there for fuel economy purposes...

like ANY part there are benefits and pitfalls to chosing one over the other... just grouping "5-speeds" and "6-speeds" is stupid IMO because there are so many differences from one to the next without considering the specific configuration claiming one is universally better than the other is simply fanboyish IMO.

[Sileighty_85]

Just buy this one $$$$$ NISMO Silvia 180SX Reinforced Cross 6-Speed Transmission (http://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm-low/NISMO-Silvia-180SX-Reinforced-Cross-6-Speed-Transmission-20977) $$$$$ and then you wont have to worry

[Pblesh85]

Its nice but more than I can spend right now. If I do not buy my six speed set up before deployment I will buy this.

[Om1kron]

Who ever was talking about people having problems shifting in a 6-speed over a 5... that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I have NEVER seen a 6-speed with a different shift pattern since on a 6-speed reverse is WAY off to one side or the other and usually has a lock out if the vehicle is in motion...

Um you did factor in the fact I mentioned a cable driven 6 speed and not a hydraulic 6 speed

[Z U L8R]

t56 ls2 ftw, 80mph @ 1500rpm, almost idling ^_^ mpg mpg mpg

Dave :P

[irax]

t56 ls2 ftw, 80mph @ 1500rpm, almost idling ^_^ mpg mpg mpg

Dave :P



LOW RPM DOES NOT ALWAYS = MPG!

peak torque at RPM = MPG!

the only reason why the LSx has great mpg while cruising on the free way is because of its flat torque band. You have to put into consideration air/fuel ratio.

[S14DB]

facepalm... I don't understand what the point of a 6 speed on an engine designed for a 5 speed. People swap the s15 engine into 240's all the time, and there is a reason the 6 speed doesn't come along with it.

Honestly rowing 6 gears, do you like have people in your car and go watch this, and row from 5th to 6th and then top out at 110 mph? LOL while some guy farts by you in a civic hatchback cause he's doing the same speed halfway into 4th gear?

Sure it would be cool but the more and more I read about a 6 speed, I am against it. Sure the transmission is bulletproof, what happens when you do a sweet ass 3rd gear to 2nd gear trying to get it in 4th mis-shift. Will the engine it's matted to as well be bullet proof?

I guess people don't really think about these things.

This was the main death of the k20a2 motors in honda's was owners not knowing how to drive with a 6 gear, mission. Miss shifting and sending a piston through a block, and I can just picture the same thing happening but I guess someone will have to engineer the transmission swap itself.

It's hard for me to believe that any 240 owner is willing to spend almost 2 grand to have an extra gear on their transmission rather than 2 grand towards upgraded turbo and proper tuning or suspension components. But hey to each his own!

Um you did factor in the fact I mentioned a cable driven 6 speed and not a hydraulic 6 speed

Engine designed for a transmission? Isn't in the other way around?

Do you know anything about gear ratios?

Do you mean Cable and Hydraulic driven clutches?

[irax]

Engine designed for a transmission? Isn't in the other way around?

Do you know anything about gear ratios?

Do you mean Cable and Hydraulic driven clutches?

I think he's talking about FWD 6speed transmissions though i never heard of a hydraulic shift linkage.

[S14DB]

I think he's talking about FWD 6speed transmissions though i never heard of a hydraulic shift linkage.

I have only seen Cable and Rod.

[Om1kron]

Do you know anything about gear ratios?
Not especially no. Got any recommended reading?

Do you mean Cable and Hydraulic driven clutches?
Yes that's what I meant, sorry.