What alignment adjustments are possible and to what extent on a stock s13?

[dwadia]

I've searched and read that the only possible adjustments on a stock-suspension s13 is front toe, and rear toe and camber. Is this correct or is there more that can be adjusted?

I also want to know how much everything adjustable can be adjusted. Currently the only suspension mods i have are KYB AGX's with Tanabe GF210 springs, which is about a 1.5" drop.

I have alignment specs that someone recommended to me which i'd like to at least get close to, so if anyone can tell me how close i would get considering my drop that would be very helpful, or even what adjustable components i need to get to these specs. Here are the specs: Front: camber -2.5, toe in 1/16", castor +6 (approx). Rear: camber -1.5, toe in 1/8"

I'll probably wind up buying some suspension pieces to make adjustments, but i am very limited on money and don't want to buy more than i need - this is a daily driver, not a drift or track car. That said, i want it set up to handle how i like.

[JeremyR]

you wont be able to align your car to those specs with stock adjustments.

iirc, only the hicas equipped 240sx had a rear toe adjustment. there is no stock camber/caster adjustment on the front or rear of the 240sx, only front toe.

in order to have all camber/caster/toe angles adjustable, you need the following:
tension rods (for front caster adjustment)
camber plates (for front camber adjustment)

rear upper control arms (for rear camber adjustment)
rear toe arms (for rear toe adjustment)

this is the minimum you need, you could go more indepth with adjustble traction rods and adjustable control arms, but i feel for the type of driving you are doing you will not need those.

[dwadia]

Ok, so i definitely don't need tie rod ends, right? I have some rear toe arms laying around so that will save a little money. For front camber i'll probably go with tein plates, but just out of curiousity what do you think of these eBay Motors: SPC FRONT CAMBER KIT NISSAN 240SX ACCESS MAXIMA PULSAR (item 230292318532 end time Oct-17-08 10:16:16 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230292318532&rd=1?)? I also found a very similar one made by H & R that says it gives +/- 3 degrees of adjustment. It seems almost too easy and hence i'm skeptical.

Adjustable control arms are WAY out of my budget and i agree, probably not necessary. And to be honest i don't fully understand what traction arms do or how they do it.

For the tension rods and RUCA's do you think ebay stuff is acceptable for my purposes? I'm sure brand name stuff is much stronger and better quality, but since i'm not drifting it or putting such heavy stresses on it, would i really notice a difference?

[ibi_d]

tie rod ends will give you more steering lock, if you want/need the lock, go for them otherwise for an alignment with those settings, no.

your better off going for some pillowball tops that way you'll have more adjustment

the cheaper arms aren't so bad; however if you were to buy them, i'd atleast have the bearings replaced with some quality US shit to avoid failure (which will most likely end up costing you the same amount for a set of 2nd's in quality shit)

hope this helps ;)

[s13dan]

LOL nissan oil lights come on at 6psi, so if its on your already fucked...

[dwadia]

LOL nissan oil lights come on at 6psi, so if its on your already fucked...

Huh???? I don't get it.


Aside from that, yeah i'll probably go with camber plates. For the arms, all the ebay stuff comes with spherical bearings/pillow balls. How can i replace those and where would i get better quality ones?

And no i don't need more steering lock. That would either be important for drifting or some serious parking lot driving and i'm not really into either of those lol. I just want a little toe. On that note, how much toe in can i run without really tearing up my tires? I'd be happy to get 6-10k out of a set of tires.

[LayNLow]

you wont be able to align your car to those specs with stock adjustments.

iirc, only the hicas equipped 240sx had a rear toe adjustment. there is no stock camber/caster adjustment on the front or rear of the 240sx, only front toe.

Actually Rear camber and toe are adjustable from the factory using eccentric bolts. Front toe is the only thing on the front from the factory that is adjustable.

Ok, so i definitely don't need tie rod ends, right? I have some rear toe arms laying around so that will save a little money. For front camber i'll probably go with tein plates, but just out of curiousity what do you think of these eBay Motors: SPC FRONT CAMBER KIT NISSAN 240SX ACCESS MAXIMA PULSAR (item 230292318532 end time Oct-17-08 10:16:16 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230292318532&rd=1?)? I also found a very similar one made by H & R that says it gives +/- 3 degrees of adjustment. It seems almost too easy and hence i'm skeptical. SPC/H&R are supposedly pretty reputable. Camber plates are really simple, so yes it is pretty easy.

Adjustable control arms are WAY out of my budget and i agree, probably not necessary. And to be honest i don't fully understand what traction arms do or how they do it.
So what is your budget? Dont worry about traction arms if you just want to get your alignment specs straight. It basically adjusts castor for the rear.

For the tension rods and RUCA's do you think ebay stuff is acceptable for my purposes? I'm sure brand name stuff is much stronger and better quality, but since i'm not drifting it or putting such heavy stresses on it, would i really notice a difference?

No. Ebay stuff is not acceptable. Do you really want to put your life and others with/around you at danger because you cheaped out on the most important thing that you SHOULDNT cheap out on? Let us know your budget and I am sure we can find you something to fit. And actually driving on the streets puts more stress on your suspension componets than a day at the track. Think about it, tracks are well maintained for the most part. The streets... well you know how yours are. I sure as hell know they arent better than your average track.

tie rod ends will give you more steering lock, if you want/need the lock, go for them otherwise for an alignment with those settings, no.
Tie rod ends will NOT give you more steering lock. The steering spacers that you install between the inner tie rods and the rack is what gives you more angle.



LOL nissan oil lights come on at 6psi, so if its on your already fucked...
Wrong thread?

[dwadia]

LayNLow, thanks for all that info. I don't know how to quote quite as well as you so bear with me.

I really need to stay within $400 and that's pushing it. However my ball joints have play so i need new ones. I found a good deal on new oe-replacement control arms (with ball joints) for about $100 shipped, + $30 for poly bushings. That leaves me with ~270 to mess around with. Tein camber plates = $150. From what you said it sounds like i can avoid the RUCA's, assuming the eccentric bolts have enough adjustment range (i don't know how much i'll need to get the specs i want) and are precise enough. I'd need tension rods, let's say $130 for decent stuff (Circuit Sports or Megan i guess). That would be in the ballpark of my budget albeit on the high side. Now if the eccentric bolts on the front are really a good option i could save $100 right there, plus a slightly easier installation. Does anyone see a major downside going that route vs. the camber plates? Or any other flaws in my thinking?

And i'd still like to know how much these toe settings will affect tire wear (1/16-1/8") :).

[dwadia]

Forgot to ask, how precisely can those eccentric bolts be adjusted, and are they ever known to slip?

[LayNLow]

LayNLow, thanks for all that info. I don't know how to quote quite as well as you so bear with me.

I really need to stay within $400 and that's pushing it. However my ball joints have play so i need new ones. I found a good deal on new oe-replacement control arms (with ball joints) for about $100 shipped, + $30 for poly bushings. That leaves me with ~270 to mess around with. Tein camber plates = $150. From what you said it sounds like i can avoid the RUCA's, assuming the eccentric bolts have enough adjustment range (i don't know how much i'll need to get the specs i want) and are precise enough. I'd need tension rods, let's say $130 for decent stuff (Circuit Sports or XMeganX i guess). That would be in the ballpark of my budget albeit on the high side. Now if the eccentric bolts on the front are really a good option i could save $100 right there, plus a slightly easier installation. Does anyone see a major downside going that route vs. the camber plates? Or any other flaws in my thinking?

And i'd still like to know how much these toe settings will affect tire wear (1/16-1/8") :).

Ok, here we go again.
1) I Am not sure how much the stock eccentric bolts will adjust out. I assume you have gotten an alignment before? Before buying adjustable parts have your alignment guy check to see how close he can get it to your specs. As you may not have to buy a whole lot to get what you want.
2) IIRC stock castor spec is 6*.
3) Please don't use megan suspension parts. I have seen bad things from them on here and other places.
4) No eccentric bolts on the front. The only stock adjustable front componet is toe. And I am not sure you can get eccentric bolts for front camber.
No idea on how much toe will effect tire wear. I have a bit of toe out on my rear because I dont have my toe rods installed yet. But then again I cant say anything about wear because i cant keep tires on the rear long enough to notice. But I think 1/16 would be OK.

Like I said, if you could spare a little bit to get your alignment guy to see what he can get the rear camber and toe to, you may not have to buy much. I remember my rear toe being super close to 0, I am not sure what measurment it was in but IIRC it was at -0.1 per side using stock arms and being slammed as you can see down there \/ \/ But if your looking for -2.5* front camber, I would coulnt on buying some camber plates at the least. And your tension rods are 15-20 years old if they are still stock, so they are proably out of range. The only thing I am not sure about is rear camber since i installed my rear camber arms before I got an alignment. So I have no idea what they might be able to adjust out to.
The bolts can be pretty percise if you get a guy that wants to get it 100% right. And it is like a regular bolt, so its not usual for it to slip.

[dwadia]

Actually i've never gotten an alignment. I just recently got the car and it had eibach sportlines. I'd assume the previous owner got an alignment at some point after dropping it but i don't know. I changed them to Tanabe GF210's (less drop). I have a little play in my steering wheel (worn ball joints) and the wheel is also a bit left when i'm driving straight (not sure why) so i definitely need an alignment. I was sort of trying to find out what parts i'd need to get the specs i want before getting the alignment, so i don't have to get 2 alignments. But if i have to, so be it.

I realize there are no stock eccentric bolts for camber - i was thinking of something like this H&R "TRIPLE C" CAMBER ADJ BOLT: 12MM/-3 TO +3 DEG (PAIR)-Options Auto Salon (http://www.optionsauto.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HR-TC112). +-3* is quite significant and i'd expect it should be more than enough, if indeed they work well and truly give that range.

[ibi_d]

Tie rod ends will NOT give you more steering lock. The steering spacers that you install between the inner tie rods and the rack is what gives you more angle.


typically you would install the "provided" spacers when changing rods and ends :keke: