S14 rear subframe into R32 (S13)

[donk_316]

Hi.
Over the winter I am removing the HICAS and would like to swap in a S14 subframe. I want to do this to totally eliminate the HICAS and "upgrade" my suspension geometery.

I have the S14 rear subframe coming in a week or so and im sure i need to get a set of "offset" bushings... Can someone tell me where to get these? Or will a modified set of Poly bushings work for the rear. Im thinking of just "slotting" some aluminum bushings.

This is the big question: what suspension pieces will work? S13/S14/R32? Can i re-use my GTR rear coil overs? I know someone in the Skyline board has / is doing this but no response to my questions yet.

Thanks for any information someone can give me.

[MadScientist]

All the S-Chassis subframes Fit... they vary mainly in the Lower & Upper Arm and Spindles... The 4 bolt mounting system is the same!!

From Hub to Hub - S13 is smaller... S14 and S15 are wider... S15 is stronger... R32 and R33 are basically the same as the Z32... The R34 is the wides strongest and most different of all these variations.

I have done several S13s with S14 subframe... you will still have to use the S13 RUCA... S13s also have smaller rear damper Length compaired to the S14 and S15... not sure about the GTRs.

You can use the S14, Z32 or GTR rear 5 lug to do a Z32/ GTR rear brake conversion... you will not need to use the spindle housing with has a very different mount for the damper.

Alot of info in the ass of an S-Chassis....

-Drew

[donk_316]

Thanks for the info Drew.
There seems to be a huge misconception about these subframes not swapping as a direct bolt on. Ive even heard of a company that makes these special slotted aluminum bushings for this conversion. I wasnt interested in his product because he was over seas and want over $200 for them.

As far as interchangabilty is concerned, its seems that the BNR32 shares alot of similiar suspension pieces as the S13 AND S14... According to the nismo parts catalogue part numbers.

I think alot of this will come clear once i get the two setups side by side. I would like to build the S14 subframe so its a "quick" swap over.

My concerns will be if i can still use my HKS coil overs and how the HICAS tie rods are now eliminated and if i use S14 spindles or what the scoop is there.

[MadScientist]

unclear as to what s-chassis your working on

[donk_316]

I have a R32 GTR which i am swapping a S14 rear subframe into.

[Dousan_PG]

yanack sell those bushings
RHDJapan can probably get them

you might need them like when s13s try to run s15 subfrrames

[Def]

I hear the S14 subframe mounting points are about 3/8" wider than an S13 subframe.

Hopefully I can get my hands on one in a week or two and verify.

[donk_316]

Well I have a S14 subframe in my garage. I can measure anything you need... I have also heard the S14 is wider at the rear mounts too.

[FRpilot]

tougefactory sells their own branded solid bushings. i think they retail $240.

they are solid with the holes drilled offset to accomodate wider subframe mounting points.

im sure the s14/s15 subframes would fit, although they are a bit wider, you just have to stretch or dremel the hole of the rubber bushing to fit, which probably make it more sloppy.

[donk_316]

What about the guy who replied first saying he has swapped in a couple subframes and they are all the same mounts?

[kognition]

A friend of mine planned to swap an S15 rear subframe into his S13, but he held off because it would require some extra fabrication. But that is an S15 subframe. Which i believe has a wider stance than an S14 subframe.

[FRpilot]

What about the guy who replied first saying he has swapped in a couple subframes and they are all the same mounts?

all will fit, but like i said, the factory rubber mount holes will not, so you have to stretch/force it in. rubber will probably be sloppy.

[racepar1]

all will fit, but like i said, the factory rubber mount holes will not, so you have to stretch/force it in. rubber will probably be sloppy.

If you have to stretch the bushings and force it in it doesn't fit man! It is pretty common knowledge that offset bushings are needed.

[MadScientist]

I have fit S14 subframes onto S13s no issues at all... its a hell of alot easier if you do the swap with a lift and the tires on. No lift/ no Tires... is like fitting a fat man in a size 2 mini skirt.

Yashio Factory runs S15 subframes in all of their non-S15 cars and even does the swaps for customers. The only Difference I am aware of with the S14 and S15 subframe is the S15 has additional support welds and bracing that you would totaly miss... This was in one of the older Option Videos.

To add to all this... The JIC S15 has a (iirc) R34 and it did take some fabrication. Jun makes a Drag Sub-Frame and has different part #s for the S13, S14, and R32.

Dousan has a S15 Subframe in his 180 (Hatch)
s15 rear member and rear Z32tt brakes installed - FreshAlloy.com Forums (http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=107543&highlight=S15+subframe)

^^^ not sure if this was posted on Zilvia.

R32 is a new bag of worms... Its honestly not hard at all to drop the subframe!
4 - Caliper Bolts (2 per side)
Un-hook e-brake cables from the center
2 - lower Coilover bolts (1 per side)
4 - Subframe bolts
DONE...
Car on the Lift... place the Calipers on top of the RUCA... replace the wheels before lifting the car and before undoing the SubFrame bolts... wheels touching the ground you can get to the bolts safely from the rear of the car and from the sides... Lift the car off the subframe... roll it away!!

Just do it... its actually simple and fun.

-Drew

Edit: I have been researching this... and I am getting alot of conflicting info. No-one has really posted pics or verified their method (other than I)... I dont have pics but I have done this on about 3-4 Hatch and Coupe S13s for friends. I have read that their is 1/8th difference in the mounting points... I never noticed that and I see no isses with it other than if you wanted to run soild bushings or sub spacers.

[import madness]

hi guys wanted to know if the whole subframe with all its components of an R32gtr would fit under a S13?
also sorry for making my first post this one i googled this search and it let me here,i registered because this thread was the closest corresponding one
i am building a 450sx so here's the why..lol

thanks guys

[yokotavia]

R32 is a new bag of worms... Its honestly not hard at all to drop the subframe!
4 - Caliper Bolts (2 per side)
Un-hook e-brake cables from the center
2 - lower Coilover bolts (1 per side)
4 - Subframe bolts
DONE...
Car on the Lift... place the Calipers on top of the RUCA... replace the wheels before lifting the car and before undoing the SubFrame bolts... wheels touching the ground you can get to the bolts safely from the rear of the car and from the sides... Lift the car off the subframe... roll it away!!



dont forget to take off the 4 driveshaft bolts and re install them =]

[racepar1]

Edit: I have been researching this... and I am getting alot of conflicting info. No-one has really posted pics or verified their method (other than I)... I dont have pics but I have done this on about 3-4 Hatch and Coupe S13s for friends. I have read that their is 1/8th difference in the mounting points... I never noticed that and I see no isses with it other than if you wanted to run soild bushings or sub spacers.

I highlighted EXACTLY why it matters to me. You are saying that the s-14 and s-15 subframes are dimensionally the same though huh? Good to know, and exactly what I suspected.

[90KAcoupe]

what if u take the rubber mount in the rear and stretch it the 1/8 of an inch to fit. then fill the rest of the bushing with a compound like the 3m window weld (polyurethane filler) that and using subframe collars to fit it all together should work perfect right.. im trying to figure out a way to do this with out dropping $240 on solid bushings.

[import madness]

does anyone has the answer about fitting a 32GTR rear subframe in a S13?

thanks guys,would be appreciated!!

[donk_316]

Any machine shop should be able to take a set of stock-size solid subframe bushings and elongate the hole laterally for next to nothing instead of 250 bucks for the exact same thing.

[Def]

I seriously doubt that. You're looking at about $30-45 for the material alone, and machining time is NOT cheap. Plus you'll have to come up with a print that specifies out dimensions. You will be paying a lot more to have a machinist look at an existing part and make a similar piece out of aluminum(essentially doing the design work).

Machine time ranges from $75-150/hr in my experience, and they typically have a "set-up charge" for each job that's a flat rate like about $40.

[donk_316]

I understand what your saying but i think you misunderstood me. Take a set of aluminum subframe bushings into local machine shop. Elongate center hole radially by 1/2" No measurements needed. The holes / slots would self align when installed. Most local small town machine shops i have dealt with will do these little jobs for next to nothing.

[racepar1]

I took some measurements today.

distance between front subframe mounts:
s-13 - 42 1/8"
s-14 - 42 1/2"
difference - s-13 is 3/8" narrower

distance between rear subframe mounts:
s-13 - 23 7/8"
s-14 - 24 1/4"
difference - s-13 is 3/8" narrower

The s-13 and s-14 trac arms are dimensionally the same.

Eyeballing the shock angle on the s-13 I would say that you need to use s-13 RUCA's if you are putting an s-14 subframe in your s-13. I believe they are dimensionally the same, but I don't have a spare set of s-13 ruca's laying around. The s-14 RUCA's are 12" long if somebody wants to confirm.

The s-13 and s-14 RLCA's are pretty close to the same, the s-14's MIGHT be 1/8" longer as I didn't take the plastic covers off the arms so I could be a bit off.

The s-13 and s-14 toe arms are the same length, but you will need spacers to use the s-13 ones on the s-14 frame.

[90KAcoupe]

I understand what your saying but i think you misunderstood me. Take a set of aluminum subframe bushings into local machine shop. Elongate center hole radially by 1/2" No measurements needed. The holes / slots would self align when installed. Most local small town machine shops i have dealt with will do these little jobs for next to nothing.


dude u dont just line it up and bolt it in.. the stud needs to fit tight in the center whole.. or else ur subframe will shift under hard stress.. and it would be virtually impossible to just bolt them up end up getting the subframe square.

[Def]

dude u dont just line it up and bolt it in.. the stud needs to fit tight in the center whole.. or else ur subframe will shift under hard stress.. and it would be virtually impossible to just bolt them up end up getting the subframe square.

Exactly. I would definitely not have slotted holes in my subframe bushings. Talk about movement!

My plan is to window weld the stock mounts - should be pretty tight given that the stock rubber will already be compressed and the window weld will provide extra support.

[racepar1]

Exactly. I would definitely not have slotted holes in my subframe bushings. Talk about movement!

My plan is to window weld the stock mounts - should be pretty tight given that the stock rubber will already be compressed and the window weld will provide extra support.

The problem with that plan is that how do you know that the subframe will center itself properly? Maybe one bushing will be easier to deform than the others and the frame will end up slightly crooked. That is definitely not something i would want.

[Def]

It's a possibility, but looking at the bushings I'd say that if it isn't aligned perfectly centered on the car, you're looking at maybe a few thousandths of an inch off. Once you align the car and eliminate any thrust angle I can't see this causing any sort of issue.


I'd highly doubt the original subframe or the body of the car is made with greater than a +/- 0.020-0.040" accuracy, so I think worrying over a gnat's ass difference in how the subframe centers itself is pretty pointless. The stock subframe can move all over the place due to the bushing compliance, and it's noticeable, but not the end of the world. Eliminate most of that movement and I don't see how it can be any worse.


I'm still somewhat contemplating making some aluminum bushings myself, but it seems like a major PITA to get everything spot on. I doubt with the tools I have at my disposal it'd be any better than just pushing the subframe up there and urethaning everything.

[djsilver]

S13 to S14 Subframe swap - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157606405591031/)

[Black R]

Spl makes the offset rear solid aluminum subframe bushings now btw...

[godrifttoday]

^
Wow dude no way! U got a link? Common dude almost 3 year old thread I'm sure he knows