Where should jack stands be placed for max safty?

[DSC]

I've never felt very comfortable working on a tough bolt under my car for fear of pushing the car off the jackstands.

Where can I place stands when lifting just the front? Where should I place them working on just the rear?
And the harder one, what about lifting the entire car? front first or rear?

I've jacked my car up many times, but never felt that comfortable with the way I did it. I'm replacing part of the front suspension and dropping the tranny, guarinteed to run into mean bolts...don't want to throw the car off the sands.

Help a brotha out ;)

[JamesC89]

When I jacked the front end up the other day to change my oil I was trying to figure out the same thing.

What I ended up doing, since I have a 3-1/2 ton jack (which is hard to get under the front without clipping that plastic engine cover at stock ride height) and matching jack stands (pretty tall) was taking the pawl out of the jack stands and using just the base to hold up the car, placed under the front sub frame rails.

I attached a diagram of the basic places and idea.

When I let the jack down and the car rested on the stands I tried to shake the car and it wouldn't budge. Seems VERY sturdy to me and how I plan to support my car when I put my pillow ball T/C rods on, brake swap, etc... However this my not work if you have short jack stands.

If only working on the suspension or pretty much anything but changing the oil, I would leave the jack still raised, but just touching the jack point, to act as a backup incase the car did slide off the stands. Same idea applies for the rear unless you’re swapping differentials or something.

[bbp]

dave,

i normally jack up the car under the front side jack plate (BLUE/YELLOW ARROW) as it is too low to get a jack under the front. i'll get one side up high enough to get a pair of stands under the rear jack plate, and one under the front where the body curves up (BLUE ARROW)(the front stand will sit kind near the tie rod and will be raised up quite a bit higher than the rear. (ill check for pics)) set it down, reapeat on the other side. THEN i will get a chunk of 2x4 place it on the jack cup and place the jack under the front cross member, up as high as it will go. move the front jack stands back to the side jack plates, adjust as necessary, lower front onto stands. THEN move to the rear with the same piece of wood directly under the center of the diff, all the up or until level with the front, adjust stands to height. lower rear onto stands. (RED ARROWS are where the stands will be when finished) place the stand so it is perpedicular to the the jack plate. this is what those plates are for. the "frame" is not really a frame and will begin to crush over time, trust me, mine are pretty ugly from the previous owner.

it is always a 2-3 step process to get it high enough. I will also stack some wood on the jack to get some added heighth as my jack isn't that tall. Just make sure that the jack is rolling as the car goes up and down, if the jack doesnt move the car WILL.

I hate working under a car that is only a foot off the ground. i should be able to lay on my side on my creeper without my other shoulder touching the underside of the car. tc kline programmed me to do it this way.

Here is my disclaimer: i take my time doing this and check the stands and placement frequently. read the FSM and follow their directions. i am not responsible if you drop the car off the stands and any resulting injury. use you best jusdgement.

I hi jack you pic for reference, hope u dont mind!

http://www.gerstonline.com/images/jackpoints.jpg

[DSC]

looks good. I use those jack points, but have never tried using the frame rails on the side for the stands.
It seemed to me that there would be too much of an angle for the frame to lay on the stand properly.

edit: bbp, didn't see your post.
What are jack plates?

so you jack up one side, put it on stands. jack up the other side, put it on stands. lift the front higher, adjust stands higher in same position. then lift rear higher and adjust stands in same position.
Did i get that right?

Lucky for me, i can get to the crossmember on the front, from the front, so I guess I can just do front and then rear with no problems? Until it is no longer stock height anyway...

While we're on the topic, whats a good jack?

[JamesC89]

Same for me, untill i took the pawl out of the jack stands (shortened them) and slid them back further to a level part of the frame rail.

[bbp]

check edited post above. if you can get a jack under the front, then yes skip the first step. but put the jack stands under the little plates in the rocker seam. again that "frame" will not last long if used to support the car often.

D, try to find an american built jack if possible, they seem to last longer. i have gone thru 2 crapsmans in the last few years. Harbor Freight has a nice aluminum race jack for $200. dont know how long it will last, i will look for a link fer ya.

this pic shows the car jacked up on the front plate. it will lift the whole side of the car safely.
http://www.gerstonline.com/images/jackup.JPG

[bbp]

Here is a link to a discussion about the aluminium floor jacks. (http://forums.improvedtouring.com/it/Forum20/HTML/000004.html)

It's a long thread but informative. ;)

[Cheng]

If you have trouble getting a 3 plus ton jack under your 240 you should put some pluy wood in the front of the car and in the rear of the car just to get the extra clearance. Use as Many pieces of wood as you need!

[bbp]

Agreed!

Often that is difficult when I am alone and the car doesnt run. pushing sux!

[KiDyNomiTe]

Someone should FAQ this, as I and many others will need to know where to jack up thier cars.

[Natty]

Originally posted by KiDyNomiTe
Someone should FAQ this, as I and many others will need to know where to jack up thier cars.
I agree.

I normally place the jack cup on the front cross member and place the jack stands on the front subframe rails.

I think this is bad though. First off, I don't know if the front crossmember is designed to be jacked up like that. SHould I use a 2x4 between the jack cup and cross member?
Also, those subframe rails are huge, but look very, very thin. I fear bending one, then I would be screwed beyond belief.

Jeff

[SaintlyCharBoy]

Originally posted by Natty
I normally place the jack cup on the front cross member and place the jack stands on the front subframe rails.


in the FSM, the front engine cross member is the front lifting point, so that's what i usually use - with stands under the rails

what i have always hated doing is using my jack under the pumpkin - it just feels wrong...

-sean

[Natty]

Originally posted by SaintlyCharBoy
in the FSM, the front engine cross member is the front lifting point, so that's what i usually use - with stands under the rails

what i have always hated doing is using my jack under the pumpkin - it just feels wrong...

-sean
Yeah, I am still to scared to lift by the diff too.
I guess I was jacking up the front correctly then.

If you are still unsure, stack blocks or tires about an inch short that you jackstands near the stands. If the car falls, it drops and inch and you can roll the heck away.

Jeff

[JamesC89]

Originally posted by bbp
...but put the jack stands under the little plates in the rocker seam. again that "frame" will not last long if used to support the car often.

Cool, I wasn't aware of the jack plates. I always saw that flimsy little rail and thought it would be bent by anything but the scissor jack. I never thought to look behind it.

Originally posted by bbp
...this pic shows the car jacked up on the front plate. it will lift the whole side of the car safely.

The whole side of the car you say? This could be usefull. (hint: quick tire rotations ;) :D )

[DSC]

Ok, I finally bought myself a $100 crapsman jack :) seems good so far but I can hardly lift it :eek: it weight 100lbs and I only weigh 140-150 so it was quite a task to get it home and in and out of my trunk...
One really bad thing is it's lowest point is 5.5"! ack, oh well...I wasn't ready to spend $200+ for something nicer.

BUT, i tested it out so here are some shots of it jacked up. Just the front doing only one wheel at a time. I removed the cup so I could jack the frame rails with a flat surface.
http://www.240motorsports.com/1.jpg
http://www.240motorsports.com/2.jpg
http://www.240motorsports.com/3.jpg

Here are shots of it lifted by the diff from a while back
http://www.240motorsports.com/4.jpg

[thelinja]

How sturdy are those frame rails? A while back I tried jacking up the car by the frame rail and it looked pretty breakable and unsafe. But then again I had the cup on the jack and the teeth were digging into the rail.

[kanekz]

Awhile back, I had jack stands on the frame rails...well when I was done working on the car... the rails were bent!! I totally F#$%ed up. Will this create a big problem with the frame and overall characteristic of the car (s14).

BTW: I never have problems jacking the car up on the Diff.

[DSC]

The spot I have mine on seems very sturdy, and I was sure to have a flat surface on a flat surface, rather than just a couple "teeth" or whatever from those worthless cups digging in.
I would have used a piece of wood but it wouldn't fit, lol this jack is so high.

Other points on the rail seem very thin and I wouldn't dare putting my jack there...you can really tell just by knocking on it with your knuckle.

[kandyflip445]

On unibody cars anywhere on the pinch weld is a good place. It might get a little mushed but it's fine. If you can find lift points(even though you already have...) the pinch weld is a really good place to put them.

[DSC]

Whats a pinch weld? I'd be uncomfortable having any part of my car get a little mushed :confused:

[DuffMan]

I've crushed up my frame rails a little bit too folks, but I wouldn't worry about it. They don't actually DO anything really except collect rust.

Some S13s in Japan didn't EVEN HAVE the frame rails, so i wouldnt worry about bending them.

[kandyflip445]

Just under the door on the sides of your car. You'll see a little ridge of metal just sticking out front to back. That is the pinch weld.

[rancid240]

yah, i've crushed the frame rails by lifting it up w/ one of those nissan jacks. now i jack it up w/ the pinch welds. havent tried w/ the pumpkin and it is too low to get to the front crossmember.

[kandyflip445]

You don't have to worry about the pinch welds. They don't bend much at all. Like the very edge will flatten out at the most. The whole thing won't like fold over. The pinch welds are VERY strong.

[DSC]

Originally posted by DuffMan
I've crushed up my frame rails a little bit too folks, but I wouldn't worry about it. They don't actually DO anything really except collect rust.

Some S13s in Japan didn't EVEN HAVE the frame rails, so i wouldnt worry about bending them.

http://www.240motorsports.com/jack.jpg
That the frame rail your talking about? It is not supposed to be bent at all and I can't see how you could possibly drive a car w/out them.

As for the pinch weld, i still have no clue what that is. Are you talking about the part I have circled in the above pic?

[DuffMan]

Well part of the frame rail is made from very thin metal. This is the part that bends from jack stands, and is not on some cars in Japan. Towards the front it turns into much thicker metal, and this part is itegrated with the unibody.

Since they are designed to look continuous most people think that it plays some important role in the car structure, but the weak part of the frame rail is just sort of there, not doing anything. It's too thin to provide any rigidity anyways.

Note: this applies to S13's, S14's might be different.

[kandyflip445]

Yes, the part you circled is the pinch weld. As for the front crossmember, it should be a good place to jack up the car. Try to get one or two teeth behind the crossmember so the car can't fall off as easy. Also, don't have the e-brake on when you jack up the front. When you jack up the front either the car has to come forward or the jack has to move forward. It is much easier for the car to though because rocks won't hinder the travel as it would to the jack. When you get it up on the stands then pull the e-brake and jack up the rear of the car.

[misnomer]

I just drove up onto some 2x6 planks, slid the jack under the front crossmember and jacked up the front. Jackstands on the frame rails (mine crushed a little bit under the jack a while ago, but all that was when I tried to jack it up more towards the middle than a corner). Move to the back, slip it under the differential and jack up the rear. Again, stands on the frame rails. Sturdy enough for me :-)

Anyhow, the trick is get some 2x6 planks of wood to drive on, this way you won't have trouble getting the jack where you want it. Jacking up two ends is a lot quicker than jacking up four corners.

[s14 RL]

Is that little pinch weld "lip" itself supposed to support the weight of the car or is it the area beyond the lip that is strong? The previous owner of my car bent the two rear pinch weld lips...

In the FSM there is a jackstand adapter that slides over the lip, but I've been unsuccessful in sourcing that part. I was thinking of just cutting a groove in a wood block and using the wood as an adapter between the lip and the jackstand...

My main question is whether I should be supporting the lip itself or the flat area of the chassis that the lip is attached to.

[s14 RL]

Oh yea, another thing I'd like to mention is that in the FSM for my 98 it says:

"CAUTION: Never place safety stand at the side member."

Then it shows a diagram similar to the one shown above with the frame rails highlighted as places _NOT_ to place jackstands. The diagram number is "SGI873". The garage jack points are the same though (front - crossmember, rear - differential).

[MorganS13]

sniff sniff... what happens if you use the frame rails :(

on a more positive note the other site is still perfect somehow
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/morgan1774/images/framerail1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/morgan1774/images/framerail3.jpg

[kandyflip445]

Originally posted by s14 RL
Is that little pinch weld "lip" itself supposed to support the weight of the car or is it the area beyond the lip that is strong? The previous owner of my car bent the two rear pinch weld lips...

In the FSM there is a jackstand adapter that slides over the lip, but I've been unsuccessful in sourcing that part. I was thinking of just cutting a groove in a wood block and using the wood as an adapter between the lip and the jackstand...

My main question is whether I should be supporting the lip itself or the flat area of the chassis that the lip is attached to.

The lip itself is the pinch weld. And yes it will hold the weight of the car on four stands placed on the pinch welds. At the college I go to we have the stands with the little groove in them where it can go into. It doesn't really matter though. I usually use the other ones because they are easier to get under the car. The entire pinch weld shouldn't bend like your finger does. It should kinda "mush" like gum does when you squish it between your upper pallet and your tounge but only the bottom part of it should do this. The whole thing shouldn't mush up.

[Anubis]

HAH! i got you all beat! Check out my horrendous frame rail damage! BE AMAZED! and my car still drives perfect!

http://www.marketrackeronline.com/andrew/1.jpg

I've had no problems putting the stands here

http://www.marketrackeronline.com/andrew/2.jpg

:p

[Frappe]

I'm sorry I'm bringing back this absurdly old thread, but it seemed better than making a new one for something that's already been mostly covered.

The frame-rail stand points that are in the picture (the one with the loopy japanese guy.) work fine.
But what about in the rear? I found a fine spot on the left hand side, but the right side is a bit different.

Do any of you have a spot you use on the rear right?
This is kind of urgent, I'm trying to get my subframe spacers put in.

[Frappe]

-bump- Anyone?

[Tubed4evr]

S13? S14? On mine in the rear there are these nice little sphere-like supports that are perfect for jacking and then just place the jack stands either on the frame rails (just like in the front) or on the seams. Supported the car like this many times without incident.

Ryan

[Frappe]

Lucky.

S14. On the left side there's a perfect thing, looks the same as the subframe rails, but sturdy, right behind the wheel.

On the right, there's nothing. What I ended up doing (because the OE scissor jack doesn't lift high enough to place my "SUV 3-ton Jack Stands" under the subframe rails) was taking the bar out of one of the rear stands, and putting a block of wood between it and the differential.
This is with the right-rear side lifted by scissor jack.

I then lowered the scissor jack till the stand was supporting the differential, and the scissor jack was acting more as a balancing stand than a load-bearing stand.

It was pretty secure.
A gallon or two of liquid wrench and a little while later, the 4 subframe spacers are in fine.

It seemed pretty safe, although I know I should quit being a cheap bugger and get a floor jack (and somewhere to put it.)

Does it sound ok to people, or was I in grave danger of becoming a very flat automotive enthusiast?