'97 Factory Sway Bars

[MrMigs]

Are the nissan factory sway bars stiffer/larger in the front than in the back?

Reason I ask is that i heard that most factory rwd cars were setup for understeer, since that would reduce the number of accidents (assuming that more people can cope with understeer easier than oversteer).

And so, I think Nissan would have set the factory swaybars so that the front was stiffer than the back. Can anyone verify this?:confused:

[240racer]

every production car ever built is setup with a fair amount of limit oversteer. All race cars hope to have a very small amount of understeer at the limit. Nobody wants oversteer, it isn't fast and it isn't fun to spin.
With that said, if a car is equiped with a rear anti-roll bar (sway bar) then it is almost always smaller then the front, assuming the arm length is comparable. Some front drive cars use a little bit bigger rear bar to promote oversteer since they have horrible power on ondersteer anyway. That's why they lift the inside rear: really stiff rear bar.
The rear bar on the 240 varies from model to model, but in general it is so small you wouldn't think it is doing anything, but it is. It isn't a good idea to just upgrade (make larger) one or the other either, unless you are trying to tune it for a specific purpose.

[MrMigs]

Gotcha, that helped a lot. and yes, I forgot to mention, but my car is an SE, so I do have a rear sway bar from factory. If i'm not mistaken, base model cars from 95+ only had front swaybars.

[tnord]

i'm gonna have to disagree with you 240racer.

1) i wouldn't ever make such a broad statement as EVERY PRODUCTION CAR EVER has a fair amount of oversteer built in. i would venture to say just the opposite. probably 90% of production cars understeer at the limit.
2) "nobody wants oversteer." i can't say this is exactly an incorrect statement, but i don't think it's exactly right either. race cars (for the most part) are dialed in to be as inherantly neutral as possible, this way the yaw angle of the car can be more easily modulated with the throttle. with that said, given the choice of slight under or oversteer, i think most racers would choose the latter.
3) the rest of your post is pretty accurate. the only thing i would add is that if you're going to upgrade your sway bars, do both at the same time.

[AKADriver]

240racer, you're a bit backwards. All production cars are set up to understeer at the limit, and race cars are typically set up to oversteer since it's more easily correctable. Some of the spring rate bias I've heard of people using on their club race cars is sick... springs twice as stiff in the rear as the front. Nobody wants to spin, but plowing straight off course isn't any better.

There's various reasons why it's done that way (most of which I don't fully grasp... heh), but you'll see smaller rear bars in just about everything.

[HippoSleek]

I agree w/ Travis and Ryan, but I thought I understood you to say that most cars come from the factory w/ understeer.

The reason for this is what you do (and can do) in a panic situation. If the tail came around while getting on to the freeway, most people would panic and lift... which would only make it worse. If, however, you are understeering around the on-ramp and lift - PRESTO - you have corrected. Not to mention that correcting for oversteer often involves throttle - which could lead you into the back of the car in front of you. Oversteer is just not the thing for road cars.

I also agree that race cars are set up neutral to slight oversteer. Loose is fast. Steering with the throttle is always the fastest way around a turn. One slight disagreement is on rates - in a rwd car, huge rear rate bias is generally not necessary. What you need to rotate a CRX or ITR (RTR Acruas are SCARY high). A 240 w/ equal rates would be a handfull. As a point of reference, the rates for spec miata are 700/325 (f/r).