Engine Swap to inline 6 from silvia

[TooLpv]

I was just wondering if it is possible to swap out the ka engine of the 240sx or the sr20det engine of the silvia and put in a skyline rb26dett inline 6.  Would this work? Is there room? If it is possoble, how much would need to be done.  And if it doesnt work, what other engines fit in place of the ka and sr?

[S13Grl]

A shop called "unstable hybrids" (their owner is a member @ zilvia) does it. I'm not sure what is the cost, but it can definitely be done.

I've heard of the VB30DETT swap, but it was ridiculously expensive and done once only, I believe. Not sure though.

[BlankFlip]

he also said he was gonna drop the rb26dett in a 240 in the future, i'm sure he'll post on it here. in my opinion, these r the best for our cars if u want it to handle well still, ca18det, ka24det, sr20det, and rb20det.

the price for an rb26 in a 240 would be at least 15 grand, plus the weight distribution would be way off and you would lose the near perfect handling characteristics of the 240.  but it would go pretty fast in a straight line but not nearly fast enough for 15 grand.

[S13Grl]

I second that, it's awesome straight-line, but definitely not for slalom or auto-x.

I can't believe i forgot to mention CA18DET.

[ca18guy]

Forget the RB26DETT the cost would destroy you. &nbsp;Get a chevy small block and cram it in there. Anyone have a link to a V8 240SX? That would be a real sleeper <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> You could cram it close to the firewall so it would'nt effect the handling that bad, and the money you would save from not getting the RB would easily get you into some insane HP with a V8. HHMMMM I can dream.

[KoukiS14]

Surrrrre. . but zero reliability. . I got a Nissan for a good reason. =) &nbsp;

Jason?! You're on zilvia.net? &nbsp;How's Heather's RB swap treating her? =)

-Rob (from Indiana hehe)

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from KoukiS14 on 4:46 pm on Nov. 11, 2001
Surrrrre. . but zero reliability. . I got a Nissan for a good reason. =)

-Rob (from Indiana hehe)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

0% reliabilty out of a V8? No I think you've been around import's to long. I love my import's but lets be realistic, what would be more reliable a 450HP/450lbs-ft small block or a SR20DET with 450HP and lesser torque. As much as I love the SR the V8 wins out. The workmanship of the interior and bodies of Americain cars might be shoddy but the engine's are not crap. Oh well never mind me, i'm just rambling <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[BlankFlip]

i can c where ur coming from, but as of now, i like the feel of my 4.

[KoukiS14]

I know.. I know... domestic V8s are the best engines ever made, etc etc.. =) &nbsp;

I just don't like american cars.. period. &nbsp;I WANT to, I mean.. I'm not the most unpatriotic guy around... We make a lot of good things, just not cars and beer, IMO =)

Too many bad experiences with domestics &nbsp; I guess...


-Rob

[ca18guy]

Anyway the point of me bring up the V8 is I would rather go that route then the $kyline engine, thats the point i was trying to get across.

[chickenmanq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 5:14 pm on Nov. 11, 2001
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from KoukiS14 on 4:46 pm on Nov. 11, 2001
Surrrrre. . but zero reliability. . I got a Nissan for a good reason. =)

-Rob (from Indiana hehe)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>




Yeah, I totally agree. &nbsp;While I love owning Japanese cars, a 350 V8 is about the most reliable thing in the world, provided you don't run ungodly compression and make700 horses out of it. &nbsp;If I had the money, I would probably do that to my D21. &nbsp;However, I would also have another souped-up D21 just so I could say, &quot;Yeah, I kicked your ass with a 4 cylinder.&quot; &nbsp;I might point out that American auto trannys lead the field. &nbsp;Ford's C6 is one of the most highly modified, being more of a race tranny in stock form than any Japanese version. &nbsp;Also, did anyone catch the blurb in Road and Track about Audi's new transmission? &nbsp;Really cool.

And just so you won't hate me for the above statements, yes 4-cylinder Japanese are the best 4's in the world. &nbsp;I have yet to see an American 4-cylinder I'd want more.

0% reliabilty out of a V8? No I think you've been around import's to long. I love my import's but lets be realistic, what would be more reliable a 450HP/450lbs-ft small block or a SR20DET with 450HP and lesser torque. As much as I love the SR the V8 wins out. The workmanship of the interior and bodies of Americain cars might be shoddy but the engine's are not crap. Oh well never mind me, i'm just rambling <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

[chickenmanq]

Okay, that quote got messed up. &nbsp;I was trying to use Cal18guy's quote which appears after MY ramblings. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[BlankFlip]

woah, i was just about to say &quot;nice job w/ the quotes&quot; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[ca18guy]

That's pretty good chicken <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[chickenmanq]

Yeah, every so often I wish I had the big-block rumble underneath my hood. &nbsp;I beat a full drag 69 Camaro today. &nbsp;(Only probably was he wasn't even trying. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> &nbsp;

[burgy240]

I love my import(or I wouldn't be in this forum) but a 350 could quite possibly be one the best street engines ever. &nbsp;I totally agree with chickenman about the four bangers though. &nbsp;No 4 banger better than J specs.

[uhjburke]

Until you have actually rode in or driven the RB powered 240SX, you can't possible even begin to describe it. &nbsp;Anyone that tells you that its heavy is actually wrong, we added a grand total of 60lbs to the car that we did the RB20DET on, we removed a KA and automatic, and added RB and 5 speed, car weighted 2800lbs full interior, and at 14psi runs a respectable 105mph trap speed, so ET's in the 13's, thats very similar to another 2.0 I know of.

Also the belief that the car will understeer, another &quot;assumption&quot;, we have plenty of accounts from others that know its very neutral in the way it behaves....car was absolutely amazing when we put a set of coil overs on it and autocrossed it, it even placed in a Atlanta regional auto cross event first time out in street mod.....with the drive(Tony Schultz) never been in it, he won STS class in his S-14 this year....so it does drive very nice.

I personally am finishing up on my 92 Covertible Silvia conversion, and I will have a RB20 or RB25DET in it when I'm done, the RB to me is most fun I've ever had driving a turbocharged 240SX, regardless of power, just pure feel and refinment sells me completely.....but living it is the only way you could feel this way.....my words can't even come close to it.....

jb

[BlankFlip]

&quot;....my words can't even come close to it.....&quot; i know how ya feel man <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[s15dude]

How much would a RB20DET cost and would you have to modify the 240 for it to fit or does it bolt right in with a kit or something?

[240sx Silvia]

ugh.. think of all the mods you could buy for an SR20DET with the 15 grand ou'd pay for that motor lol.

[BlankFlip]

15 grand? the rb20det doesn't run that high. it's $6800 through unstable-hybrids for everything like gauges, 300zx tt fuel pump, blow off valve, all that good stuff. n if u can do the work urself, u could save $2300. my ka only has like 21k miles on it now, but by the time i'd have enough money for a turbo kit, it would probably be better to do the rb20det swap, i really hope that i can do it in the future.

[BlankFlip]

is there a way to make this thread come completely out of the chat section, just makes it easier when i don't have to click the moved here thing all the time <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[S13Grl]

I left it there for a few hours so that everyone would see that it's moved. It's totally deleted now.

Thanks! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[BlankFlip]

oh ok, sorry, i was just wondering cuz i didn't know if it would always be there or not.

[S13Grl]

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

So it's dead now that I've moved it. how funny!!!!!!!

[crazycuban]

wassup everybody, new here, been watching for a while though...
anyways, I'm on the fence between the SR20 and the RB25. &nbsp;there was a post that said the RB20 weighs only 40 lbs more than the SR20, and the RB20 and RB25 share the same block, right? &nbsp;even if they didn't, they're both iron w/ aluminum heads, and that .5 liters can't make THAT much of a difference in weight, right? &nbsp;maybe the weight distribution would be helped by battery relocation? &nbsp;i've been looking for the weights of the RB engine series...does anyone have any info on this?

[mistert]

rb20 and rb25 will both bolt straight in. I can tell you right now that there arent too many advantages from going with the rb26. to put an rb26 in any silvia platform will require modifications to the mounts. you will also have to modify the sump to make it fit. turbo return lines will need modification. you will need the crossmember out of a skyline. you'll need the full drive-train and axles. you'll need the transmission out of a GTS type-M. I understand that there HAVE been full 4WD conversions using the GTR drivetrain, but that actually WILL add 300+ pounds to the front end, and ALOT more fabrication.

I have no doubt that unstable-hybrids could perform this swap. its all a question of time and money. like they say, the rb20 and rb25 will bolt straight in, with minimal fabrication work to any part of the car.

i'd say go with the rb25. it is capable of making as much power, and besides, if you want th eserious power, its all that much easier to get a massive single in there <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[s15dude]

So the RB25DET and the RB20DET will both &nbsp;bolt right in with no chassis modification?

[mistert]

correct.

piping is a given, but mounting should not be a problem

[s15dude]

cool thanks <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[S13Grl]

What are the torque/horsepower specs for the RB motors?

[mistert]

keep in mind actual ratings WILL differ. these are all generalized, there will be intergenerational differences, and as we all know, nissan does have a tendency to underrate their engines...

cefiro RB20DET's will be either 190 or 205hp, while skyline rb20det's are generally 215.

RB25DET is rated at 250hp. this figure should be good for r33 GTS type m engines. i dont know about r34 GTS-T.

who wouldnt rather have a shorter stroke rb20 inline 6 than a longer stroke sr20 inline 4, or a gargantuan stroked ka24? these engines will rev alot free-er, and the exhaust note is pretty nice, too.

[TooLpv]

Hey, I thought the stock sr20det engine of the s15 from japan is 250hp. &nbsp;Sorry for the dumb question, but is the RB supposed to be less powerfull than the SR? I really should be checking this out first, but i am too lazy. &nbsp;thanks

[BlankFlip]

which rb? there r different models. they come on nissan cefiro's, skyline gts-t's, n skyline gt-r's (or at least those r the ones that ppl will refer to the most cuz of the turbo).

[mistert]

yes the most common RB25DET's from the R33 are rated at 250hp, the same as the S15 SR20DET (in Spec-R form). the RB25DET is capable of alot more, however. the sr20DET out of the S15 is in a more factory tuned state. the rb25det has alot more room for improvement. an RB25DET, even domestically here, will cost less than an S15 SR20DET. would you rather be more unique, and have money left over? the rb25DET also produces more torque than the S15 SR20DET.
Another problem with the S15 is supposedly the 6-speed. I have heard alot of horror stories about broken teeth and the like, and as other people on this board can tell you, it is a common practice in japan to swap a 5-speed from an older silvia into an S15.
basically, horsepower isnt the only thing you should be looking at. the RB25DET is made to push a much larger car, in fact 3600+LB worth, depending on the car its found in. a GTS-T or GTS Type-M is very heavy, and a GTS-4 is just as heavy as a GTR. again, you're getting a shorter stroke engine that will rev free-er, sound alot better, be alot more unique, and give you alot more of that tire-smoking torque you want, with plenty of room for more.

and besides, what sounds cooler. &quot;i have an SR swap&quot; or &quot;theres a skyline engine in there&quot; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[TooLpv]

Ah ha, thank you...that was just the answer i needed. &nbsp;And let me follow that up with another question that may be just as simpe to answer (yet still a complex matter). &nbsp;I was looking at the nissan engine codes, and I saw that most all engines are DET. &nbsp;the most effective configuration looks like it would be VDT. &nbsp;Is this true. &nbsp;If it is, then it would probably be more expensive, so that would explain why I have never seen one. &nbsp;Are there any like this that &nbsp;would fit a 240 or silvia? &nbsp;RB25VDT maybe (Variable valve, direct injection, and turbo)? &nbsp;


Thank you

[mistert]

someone correct me if im wrong, but all of the VDT SR series engines are FWD? I know all the late s14 engines and s15 engines do use a form of VVT, to, they just dont say it directly in the name. DET or DETT would refer to DOHC and turbo or twin turbo.
The rb26DETT, at least in r33 and r34 forms is VVT, isnt it? I honestly have no idea about the rb25det, i figure it probably is to.

you're missing the point though...VVT or not, these engines give alot of torque, and variable valve timing isnt really all that important when you have a turbocharger or two, and the ability to strap on a much larger one. that shit's for N/A engines.

[S13Grl]

Thanks for the info, MisterT. I agree with you, having seen these specs. After all, the RB family motors are iron block and aluminum head, they can definitely handle more psi<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>s</span> on stock internals than the all-aluminum SR20DET. Did I mention torque??? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Variable valve timing, I would not suggest-not for myself at least. Most people want to go for more power once you get an SR20DET and the Variable Valve Timing (black-top SR20DET) can only take so much power before the VVT breaks. I'm not sure how much would it cost to fix them in the US, is there a way of disabling it, or do some people just not care.

And again, MisterT is right, Variable Valve Timing is not mentioned in the engine code (for instance S14/S15 SR20DET-they both have VVT, but not in their codes).

(Edited by S13Grl at 8<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>8 am on Nov. 15, 2001)

[TooLpv]

Alright, &nbsp;Well I dont know much, but here at the web page, it says that if there is a v then it is NEO VVL ( http://www.freshalloy.com/cars/nissan/nissan_how_eng.html ). &nbsp;It isnt nissan no i guess it could be wrong, and it doesnt say anything about an engine being VVL and not specifying. &nbsp;
Next, What about direct injection. &nbsp;If the fuel is mixed directly in the cylinder, then wont the mixture be better, so the actual % goodness (hahaha great word, bad grammar) of the combustion is going to be better then multi port injection. &nbsp;Would we again run into the same problem of pressure in the cylinder, and pressure that the injector can handle. &nbsp;It seems that nissan and some other companies have been using this in most of their cars in japan, and one web page that i have seen seems to think that the power and efficiency...(goodness)...is much better then multi port. &nbsp;Hmmm.....if they make these DDT (gassoline) engines, then where can i get one, what is the cost, how hard are they to find, can you get them new. &nbsp;All that good stuff. &nbsp;
Thank you So much

[nguyen]

mistert can you tell me the bore/ stroke ratio of a rb25dett, thanks

[mistert]

the RB25DET's Bore x Stroke is 86.0 x 71.7, for a 86.0 x 71.7 bore/stroke, displacement is 2498, with a 9.0:1 compression ratio.
the SR20DET is 86x86mm, 1998cc displatement, for a bore/stroke ratio of 1. compression ratio is 8.5:1.
What this means is that the RB25DET will rev alot free-er. the higher compression ratio makes the car alot more driveable without boost. the inline 6 configuration also gives the rb25det a much more linear delivery of power. torque is much greater. yes, the engine is better equipped the handle more boost. the stock turbo is only good for 14-16psi of boost, but this is better than the sr20det anyways, and it is capable of making full boost at 1600rpm.

hope this helps <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[nguyen]

what about the bore/stroke of a rb20det. would you know?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 5:14 pm on Nov. 11, 2001
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from KoukiS14 on 4:46 pm on Nov. 11, 2001
Surrrrre. . but zero reliability. . I got a Nissan for a good reason. =)

-Rob (from Indiana hehe)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

0% reliabilty out of a V8? No I think you've been around import's to long. I love my import's but lets be realistic, what would be more reliable a 450HP/450lbs-ft small block or a SR20DET with 450HP and lesser torque. As much as I love the SR the V8 wins out. The workmanship of the interior and bodies of Americain cars might be shoddy but the engine's are not crap. Oh well never mind me, i'm just rambling <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I totally agree. &nbsp;Chevy engines are great, so are ford engines. &nbsp;I'm tired of having a 160hp engine. &nbsp;The gas milage is nice though.

[Gesturewomotion]

k i know this is an old post but i didn't want to open up a new one... you guys are saying that the rb20 bolts right up and there's no problem with that at all... what about the tranny... do i use the tranny from my ka motor or do i use the rb tranny... i know hondas pretty well and what not but this whole nissan thing is new to me... also do most rb20det swaps include tranny aswell as other stuff? thanks a ton... peace...

[jay]

Check out unstable-hybrids.com they should be able to help you with any questions you might have.

[mistert]

well i assume you could use your KA tranny, but why not just use the RB tranny, its pretty much always included. the skylines use beefier axles (on the GTR's, anyways), but the ratios are the same on the rear end, which is cross-compatible. I would definately go for the RB tranny, though, because it's going to be alot beefier. the RB20 tranny should be pretty much the same as a KA/SR tranny but with different ratios (i'd assume), while the RB25 tranny is ALOT beefier, and can handle a whole lot more power

[Gesturewomotion]

yeah the other thing i was going to ask about was the rear ends... but i guess you just answered that... i have to ask my friend that i'm getting the rb20det from about how much the tranny can handle... i'm sure it'll be about as much as i'll ever produce... thanks guys... peace...