the REAL war and sensorship

[420sx]

how things are in reality.

not what CNN and FOX will show you. and they will NEVER show you this. its just not good for McCain.


part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6nOCK-Dgzo


part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLrAZKQDLTk&feature=related

part 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x125AH-WiyY&feature=related

hate to get political, but i'm very disappointed in the "freedom" of press. what freedom? someone dies and someone draws a portrait of a "villain" to get political points when they are incapable of solving the "real" problems in this country.

udge for yourself.




oh yea. what about this 12 year old girl not being able to tell the TRUTH. why do you have to shut her up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ[/URL]

[Matej]

What many people don't know is that the U.S. has been selling weapons to Georgia for years, they've even been helping train Georgia's military.
Georgia invaded the territory of South Ossetia without notice. Over 2000 civilans were killed during the initial invasion, most of them Russian citizens, many of them women and children.
What was Russia supposed to do, just sit there?

Now all I see on the news is talk about how Russia is evil and how they're oppressing Georgia. You know the U.S. would've reacted the same way, probably on an even larger scale.

[ellisonrox]

there should probably be a war on spelling errors..

:snoop::snoop::snoop::snoop::snoop:

[420sx]

well lets see, after Iraq, there really is no excuse for Condolina Rice to be saying "excessive force", "aggressive Russia", "Georgian democracy". Who are we kidding?
the massive amounts of lies people are exposed to through the media is immense.

They want you to know what the WANT you to know; its funny how easily you can twist things around.

[wrapmeup2005]

Im going to have to agree with you, unfortunatly its true. Freedom of speech is something that cannot be praticed in the United States and most of the US citizens don't know any better. Every source of information that we get is tampered with and censorsed by the government and the words are twisted so that it will be "okay" for us to invade innocent countries or twisted so that some countries are "good" or "bad." This was a great place to live but everyday its just getting worse. I wish people would open their eyes.

[FaLKoN240]

Can someone fix the title to CENSORSHIP.

[SexPanda]

lol...

God bless America! Land of the Free and home of powerhungry elitists, liars and manipulative bastards.

Still, I'd rather live here than africa, russia, china, most of europe, iceland, antartica, south america, and canada... Lets face it, we got it made. Keep us fat and lead us to the slaughter, oh great masters!

[420sx]

i just realized i made a mistake in title's spelling, i apologize

[murda-c]

i really don't like subtitles when i'm not watching kung fu movies

cliffs on the videos?

[420sx]

here you go, more in detail.

and in English with no subtitles
Truth About War - South Ossetia (http://www.nebog.com/truthaboutwar.htm)

[imotion s14]

"The Russian".. taking the side of Russia...

biased much?

[Matej]

"The Russian".. taking the side of Russia...

biased much?
Were Americans biased by taking America's side after 9/11?
If he truly is Russian, he has a legitimate reason to be upset about the situation.

[kouki_s14]

wow

that was an eye opener

[Rayne]

When "Yellow journalism" is involved, try and find out what the media is wanting to keep your attention away from.

[yokotas13]

What many people don't know is that the U.S. has been selling weapons to Georgia for years, they've even been helping train Georgia's military.
Georgia invaded the territory of South Ossetia without notice. Over 2000 civilans were killed during the initial invasion, most of them Russian citizens, many of them women and children.
What was Russia supposed to do, just sit there?

Now all I see on the news is talk about how Russia is evil and how they're oppressing Georgia. You know the U.S. would've reacted the same way, probably on an even larger scale.


People dont know?

shits been in the news forever.
if you dont know, you are dumb

[Rayne]

People dont know?

shits been in the news forever.
if you dont know, you are dumb

News being reported in Japan is quite different than what is reported in the united States of America.

[yokotas13]

incorrect

i read US news.....not japan news.
ive seen it off and on in the news.
im in the military, so i pay attention to it....

[Future240]

there should probably be a war on spelling errors..

:snoop::snoop::snoop::snoop::snoop:

hahahahaha. I'll watch the vids later, got work to leave for work soon. My opinion without seein them. The masses wont care. They will make up some justification for it in their mind.

[2Slow40]

So is this video legit?

It's some random documentry. Don't know who made it or where it came from.

Then there's a two minute clip of some little girl who I don't know and who may or may not have been influenced by her mother.

I'm not saying either way, I'm just wanting to know if this is legit or some bs video. Cause there's a lot of bs videos on the ol' Internet.

[shmiddy]

:wtc: at work cant watch the videos

[stiizy]

Whats the Cliffs on this Thread????

Yes i am Lazy and no cant watch the vids!!

[420sx]

its pretty legit.

[ronmcdon]

FOX is absolutely the worst news channel period, on par with the National Enquirer. They are very biased and cater towards the conservative right. it is also a business. CNN is known to cater more towards the left, although a bit better than FOX.
There is freedom of speech, but that doesn't necessarily entail truth and/or decency. the videos on youtube, and this thread is testament to that. I think what we are concerned with here, is not lack of freedom of speech. The problem is just lousy and insensitive journalism. if you're watching FOX, then really, you should not be surprised. It's questionable whether or not there is a truly objective source. best thing to do is just read from as many sources as you can, ideally from both sides, then decide (or not).

About Georgia, I clearly consider them in the wrong for doing what they did, invading like that, esp during the time of the Olympics. The US should have condemned Georgia further, possibly even remove the despot. However, 2 wrongs do not make a right. just b/c Georgia attempted to invade S. Ossetia, and committed war crimes, does not mean it makes it Ok for Russia to invade Georgia and also commit war crimes

As for the US military involvement, just because the US trains Georgian troops, doesn't mean they do so with the intention of invading it's neighbors. I am buying its more for defense, esp with it's proximity to Iran. Yes, there were reports of soldiers/bodies of African decent in S. Ossetia. but unless they are confirmed to be US military personnel, I don't think it is fair to jump to conclusions either. If anyone has info that confirms this, I would really like to know. That would indeed be very bad publicity for the US indeed. Otherwise, I will give the US the benefit of the doubt. besides, in a time like this, the US really has little to gain by starting another cold war.

Russia, on the other hand are depicting themselves as bullies and liars. What happened to their agreement about pulling out their military out of Georgia? What business do they have of taunting Poland's missile defenses? The US is not without fault, but the Czar is no saint either.

[imotion s14]

oh yea. what about this 12 year old girl not being able to tell the TRUTH. why do you have to shut her up.

YouTube - Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ)/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ[/url]

The truth about what? Is she privy some sort of political inside info of the incident? She got caught inbetween a separatist war, what exactly does that prove?

What secret truths does this 12 year old girl shed? That Georgia attacked a separatist region which under all international laws are under their sovereignty? We already know that. This is nothing more then an attempt to appeal to emotions rather than any truth or logic.

Were Americans biased by taking America's side after 9/11?
If he truly is Russian, he has a legitimate reason to be upset about the situation.

That's pretty specious reasoning. For starters "South Ossetia" is NOT a part of Russia.

[BustedS13]

the problem isn't the news/entertainment stations "censoring" what they report. the problem is that people think those are actual news stations. Fox News, CNN, MSNBC. all garbage. all the time.
but youtube is not a proper news source, either. oh, or anything ending in ".co.uk".

[2Slow40]

So where are we supposed to get news?

I prefer Wikipedia.

[BustedS13]

associated press
c-span

[Matej]

That's pretty specious reasoning. For starters "South Ossetia" is NOT a part of Russia.
Its residents are Russian citizens. What would the U.S. do if someone invaded Puerto Rico? Plus the most biased thing in this thread is your sig haha.


As for the US military involvement, just because the US trains Georgian troops, doesn't mean they do so with the intention of invading it's neighbors. I am buying its more for defense, esp with it's proximity to Iran. Yes, there were reports of soldiers/bodies of African decent in S. Ossetia. but unless they are confirmed to be US military personnel, I don't think it is fair to jump to conclusions either. If anyone has info that confirms this, I would really like to know. That would indeed be very bad publicity for the US indeed. Otherwise, I will give the US the benefit of the doubt. besides, in a time like this, the US really has little to gain by starting another cold war.

Russia, on the other hand are depicting themselves as bullies and liars. What happened to their agreement about pulling out their military out of Georgia? What business do they have of taunting Poland's missile defenses? The US is not without fault, but the Czar is no saint either.
To me it seems like the U.S. is secretly always worried about Russia, calculating for the worst, because they know it's probably the only nation that could pose a very serious threat if a conflict ever happened to break out, but at the same time while the U.S. is building up all these defenses, they're almost the ones who keep bringing everyone closer to a conflict.
Has anyone noticed that the U.S. has been building missile sites all around Russia? Yes they're saying it's for protection from Iran, but seriously, Iran doesn't pose a real threat at all, yes they could do some damage, but it will be indirect to the U.S., and I doubt they'll ever try anything at all unless they're total idiots. I'm sure Iran realizes that whatever they start, it won't end well for them.
If anyone has been following up, that's been a hot issue lately, as the U.S. is trying to build missile sites in Poland, while I'm pretty sure Russia can see through it, they're strongly objecting. In the U.S. that makes Russia the enemy of a safe peaceful world or whatever, but I can definitely see this issue from their point of view.
Think about it, are U.S. missile sites in Poland seriously necessary for protection from Iran? I'm pretty sure if Iran ever decided to start something, Russia itself could take it out on its own without a problem.
I think Russia's main problem is that they don't really put as much importance on diplomacy as the rest of the western world does, when someone opposes them, they don't make their enemy out to be the enemy of the world to win everyone on their side. They're kind of a secluded country that doesn't force all of its business on everyone else. That's why they're made out to look so evil, plus being a former communist country doesn't help. Russia isn't secretly bent on world domination, it just sits there doing its own thing trying to deal with its own problems, but some people just can't seem to leave it alone.

[rps13drift]

Its residents are Russian citizens. What would the U.S. do if someone invaded Puerto Rico? Plus the most biased thing in this thread is your sig haha.



To me it seems like the U.S. is secretly always worried about Russia, calculating for the worst, because they know it's probably the only nation that could pose a very serious threat if a conflict ever happened to break out, but at the same time while the U.S. is building up all these defenses, they're almost the ones who keep bringing everyone closer to a conflict.
Has anyone noticed that the U.S. has been building missile sites all around Russia? Yes they're saying it's for protection from Iran, but seriously, Iran doesn't pose a real threat at all, yes they could do some damage, but it will be indirect to the U.S., and I doubt they'll ever try anything at all unless they're total idiots. I'm sure Iran realizes that whatever they start, it won't end well for them.
If anyone has been following up, that's been a hot issue lately, as the U.S. is trying to build missile sites in Poland, while I'm pretty sure Russia can see through it, they're strongly objecting. In the U.S. that makes Russia the enemy of a safe peaceful world or whatever, but I can definitely see this issue from their point of view.
Think about it, are U.S. missile sites in Poland seriously necessary for protection from Iran? I'm pretty sure if Iran ever decided to start something, Russia itself could take it out on its own without a problem.
I think Russia's main problem is that they don't really put as much importance on diplomacy as the rest of the western world does, when someone opposes them, they don't make their enemy out to be the enemy of the world to win everyone on their side. They're kind of a secluded country that doesn't force all of its business on everyone else. That's why they're made out to look so evil, plus being a former communist country doesn't help. Russia isn't secretly bent on world domination, it just sits there doing its own thing trying to deal with its own problems, but some people just can't seem to leave it alone.


Russia put missiles in cuba dude! Aimed straight at us! LOL!
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/rps13drift/100_0699.jpg

[Matej]

Russia put missiles in cuba dude! Aimed straight at us! LOL!
Haha exactly, that was messed up, how is the U.S. government able to get away with building missile sites and army bases in foreign countries today? Even better, how come they're the only ones allowed to do it?

[ESmorz]

Haha exactly, how is the U.S. government able to get away with that today? Even better, how come they're the only ones allowed to do it?

Because we are America.

What we say goes. (at least for a few more years, live it up while you can)

Show some god damn respect.

:ugh:

[Matej]

Maybe the entire world should vote for America's president, it seems everyone gets affected.

[ESmorz]

http://withmalice.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/dreamteam.jpg

http://www.nationsgx.com/logos/world-globe.jpeg

http://www.drugfreeworkplace.org/images/policeman_firing.jpg

[2Slow40]

http://withmalice.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/dreamteam.jpg

http://www.nationsgx.com/logos/world-globe.jpeg

http://www.drugfreeworkplace.org/images/policeman_firing.jpg

basket ball Africa mall security?
wait what

I think that might be raciest.

[imotion s14]

Its residents are Russian citizens. What would the U.S. do if someone invaded Puerto Rico? Plus the most biased thing in this thread is your sig haha.

Puerto Rico has Commonwealth Status, legally recognized as a territory of the U.S. with the President of the United States as the head of state. The US, via the Constitution of Puerto Rico excersizes soverignty over the island and is sole responsible for military defense.

The "South Ossetia" region on the other hand IS legally recognized as a part of Georgia by practically every one INCLUDING Russia until August 25th when Russia recognizes their independence... then 5 days later absorbed the territory into their Federation.

That's the difference.

[imotion s14]

To me it seems like the U.S. is secretly always worried about Russia, calculating for the worst, because they know it's probably the only nation that could pose a very serious threat if a conflict ever happened to break out, but at the same time while the U.S. is building up all these defenses, they're almost the ones who keep bringing everyone closer to a conflict.
Has anyone noticed that the U.S. has been building missile sites all around Russia? Yes they're saying it's for protection from Iran, but seriously, Iran doesn't pose a real threat at all, yes they could do some damage, but it will be indirect to the U.S., and I doubt they'll ever try anything at all unless they're total idiots. I'm sure Iran realizes that whatever they start, it won't end well for them.
If anyone has been following up, that's been a hot issue lately, as the U.S. is trying to build missile sites in Poland, while I'm pretty sure Russia can see through it, they're strongly objecting. In the U.S. that makes Russia the enemy of a safe peaceful world or whatever, but I can definitely see this issue from their point of view.
Think about it, are U.S. missile sites in Poland seriously necessary for protection from Iran? I'm pretty sure if Iran ever decided to start something, Russia itself could take it out on its own without a problem.
I think Russia's main problem is that they don't really put as much importance on diplomacy as the rest of the western world does, when someone opposes them, they don't make their enemy out to be the enemy of the world to win everyone on their side. They're kind of a secluded country that doesn't force all of its business on everyone else. That's why they're made out to look so evil, plus being a former communist country doesn't help. Russia isn't secretly bent on world domination, it just sits there doing its own thing trying to deal with its own problems, but some people just can't seem to leave it alone.

They installed some interceptors in Poland. None of which does JACK to Russia because if there was a nuclear exchange, Russian missiles will be flying over the Artic. There is absolutely no way for an interceptor to catch up with any of the Russian missiles heading over the top of the world towards the US. That's why Canada is host to a large number of early warning systems for NORAD.

The missile defense shield in poland is to protect NATO allies from Iran, not Russia.

The missile defense system is practically USELESS against Russia because it'd be completely overwhelmed if Russia decided to launch. Which again is a moot point because of the trajectory of Russian missiles that would be launched against the US is over the Artic.

You must be suffering from amnesia if you don't remember the cold war which was a war of ideologies between the US and the Soviets. The Soviets and Americans were fighting a proxy wars all over the globe over their ideology. That's how the term "3rd world" came to be. 1st World = US, the west and allies, 2nd world Soviets and their allies.

We also didn't build walls to keep our citizens from leaving either.

[ronmcdon]

The "South Ossetia" region on the other hand IS legally recognized as a part of Georgia by practically every one INCLUDING Russia until August 25th when Russia recognizes their independence... then 5 days later absorbed the territory into their Federation.

That's the difference.

great point. many are actually not aware of this. also, Russia has been instigating in the region for quite some time now, handing out Russian passports to citizens in the region, and sending in peacekeepers/troops into an area that they have questionable legitimacy of doing so.

It is more or less also an invasion into another sovereign nation. It is slower, albeit it is much more subtle and effective than a military tactic. As it stood, Georgia was in a lose-lose situation. If it did nothing, Russia would have gradually absorbed S. Ossetia. If Georgia used force to invade the regions, well..we already know what happened there. At this point, the only thing Georgia can do is to hand over S. Ossetia. The Russians aren't backing down, possibly bluffing to their advantage, and the US seems to be willing to do only so much.

Perhaps the only way Georgia could have succeeded would have been to wait till they got accepted into NATO, and had more international backing to reclaim S. Ossetia, preferably via diplomacy instead of bloodshed. I'm not certain about this of course, but it's worthwhile to have considered the alternatives.

[ronmcdon]

To me it seems like the U.S. is secretly always worried about Russia, calculating for the worst, because they know it's probably the only nation that could pose a very serious threat if a conflict ever happened to break out, but at the same time while the U.S. is building up all these defenses, they're almost the ones who keep bringing everyone closer to a conflict.
Has anyone noticed that the U.S. has been building missile sites all around Russia? Yes they're saying it's for protection from Iran, but seriously, Iran doesn't pose a real threat at all, yes they could do some damage, but it will be indirect to the U.S., and I doubt they'll ever try anything at all unless they're total idiots. I'm sure Iran realizes that whatever they start, it won't end well for them.
If anyone has been following up, that's been a hot issue lately, as the U.S. is trying to build missile sites in Poland, while I'm pretty sure Russia can see through it, they're strongly objecting. In the U.S. that makes Russia the enemy of a safe peaceful world or whatever, but I can definitely see this issue from their point of view.
Think about it, are U.S. missile sites in Poland seriously necessary for protection from Iran? I'm pretty sure if Iran ever decided to start something, Russia itself could take it out on its own without a problem.
I think Russia's main problem is that they don't really put as much importance on diplomacy as the rest of the western world does, when someone opposes them, they don't make their enemy out to be the enemy of the world to win everyone on their side. They're kind of a secluded country that doesn't force all of its business on everyone else. That's why they're made out to look so evil, plus being a former communist country doesn't help. Russia isn't secretly bent on world domination, it just sits there doing its own thing trying to deal with its own problems, but some people just can't seem to leave it alone.

No doubt the US does not trust Russia, and vice versa. However, the US isn't the only nation that's worried either. Ditto with China, although there's probably a lot more economic leverage there for something rash to occur. This is not likely ever going to change anytime.

I don't think there's anything wrong at all with building defenses. Note, that these are not offensive missiles meant to shoot into Russian territory or the Middle East. It's not the same thing as the Soviets back in the day building offensive missile installments in Cuba, targeted towards the US. Further, the defensive measures are not built to counter the Russians, and there is no evidence that supports this, although I think Poland and the US really should given then nature of current events.

Even if, hypothetically these defensive measures were built in mind against a Russian invasion, it should be a non issue if Russia has no intention of invading. That fact that the Russians are bitching about this (the one of the Russian Generals yakking about Poland is setting itself up for an attack 100% by building the missile defense base), goes to prove their aggressive intentions.

If Iran decides to attack Western Europe and/or US allies in the Middle East, there is no guarantee at all the the Russians would intervene, and if so, to do so effectively. It's a huge gamble to make that assumption. Better to install defenses you know you can trust, than to run the risk of having an ally city/region nuked.

I can't speak for Russia in the past, but I'm really no fan of Putin's diplomacy. To me, he is not very good at diplomacy. The fact that almost all nations, including China condemning their interference in Georgia goes to show this. Yes, they might take over a region from Georgia, but the cost to them is probably not worth it. They have damaged their credibility on an international scale, jeopardized their acceptance into the wto, potential dissolving of the G8, and worsened their relations with US and China. On top of that, they continue to make threats and insults to the US and Europe which only succeeds nothing other than pissing off ppl around them.

Russia isn't to be completely shrugged off either. Russia has had a very aggressive and expansive history in the past when they were Soviets. It can be argued that they were by far the most aggressive nation during the 21st century. They also do posses one of the strongest military forces in the world, perhaps only 2nd to the US. What made Soviet Russia dangerous in the past, wasn't the fact that they were Communist or Socialist, as they so claimed. It was a case of unchecked leadership by a single lunatic. I really do hope that Putin does not become another Stalin. They are to be taken with caution.

This is a fascinating topic!

[420sx]

The truth about what? Is she privy some sort of political inside info of the incident? She got caught inbetween a separatist war, what exactly does that prove?


That's pretty specious reasoning. For starters "South Ossetia" is NOT a part of Russia.


except people in south ossetia 90% in due have RUSSIAN citizenship/passports,

so do the peacekeepers.

[420sx]

comparing Putin with Stalin is like comparing Bush with Hitler; Analogy is there but not quite the same. If you read good analytical papers and you want something unbiased (and american at that) i would recommend STRATFOR (ex cia non-gov organization). they had a very good research paper called checkmate, just go check out their website, they have some free readings.

[ronmcdon]

For sure Stalin comparison is an exaggeration. I don't think Putin is as anywhere near is bad, but one can't help but be skeptical with the given circumstances. Likewise, Bush esp during the Rumsfield era (and the congress that supported him) isn't the most admirable either. I admit I am no fan of either, although Putin has probably done a whole lot more for the Russian ppl to date, than Bush has done for America. Approval ratings certainly indicate as such. However, it will be all for naught if everything ends up in another bloody and/or expensive cold war. Really, nobody can benefit from it. It is undesirable for everyone.

I will check out the source you recommended. Thanks for the suggestion.

[imotion s14]

except people in south ossetia 90% in due have RUSSIAN citizenship/passports,

so do the peacekeepers.

Because the Russians where handing them out like candy to stoke the separatist for the last few years.

They started handing out passports to Ossetians then used that as a pretense for invading a sovereign nation when Georgia, who has LEGAL sovereign power over the area attempts to reign in control of the region.

They sure as hell couldn't be Russian citizens by birth because no country in the world had recognized "South Ossetia" as a independent nation. Not even Russia officially until last month. Then they annex it 5 days later.

So if they were "protecting" their citizens how is it that "South Ossetia", which they recognize as a part of Georgia for over a decade before--now under their control?

The Truth? Right.

It's pretty bad when China says Russia wrong.

[imotion s14]

Here's the "truth".

The Russians are just trying to scare the rest of their former republiks from joining the west and NATO. Georgia was attempting to join and the Russians started handing out passports, started getting the separatist riled up then used the "protecting it's citizens" excuse as a cause for invasion. It's a setup, pure and simple. The Ukraine is attempting to join NATO as well and it's not sitting well with Moscow at all.

[mRclARK1]

So where are we supposed to get news?

You have eyes and ears don't you? Listen to what you hear and think about what you see and filter everything. Everyone/everything has a bias. Remember it and think for yourself.

Many problems today are the result of people not doing just that. Letting the gov. or media or someone else think for them.

[ronmcdon]

Here's the "truth".

The Russians are just trying to scare the rest of their former republiks from joining the west and NATO. Georgia was attempting to join and the Russians started handing out passports, started getting the separatist riled up then used the "protecting it's citizens" excuse as a cause for invasion. It's a setup, pure and simple. The Ukraine is attempting to join NATO as well and it's not sitting well with Moscow at all.

joining NATO seems to take forever as well it seems. maybe it's a slow bureaucracy. If it didn't take so long for Georgia to get accepted into NATO, this whole incident might not have occurred. Then again, NATO does not have the respect it once did. Probably won't change much.

[420sx]

The Truth? Right.

It's pretty bad when China says Russia wrong.

they actually said Russia was right in response, however they say they are against military action. They basically approved without acknowledging independence of 2 republics.
Its diplomacy, China has its own problems with Taiwan thats why it didn't support this entirely.

[420sx]

Here's the "truth".

The Russians are just trying to scare the rest of their former republiks from joining the west and NATO. Georgia was attempting to join and the Russians started handing out passports, started getting the separatist riled up then used the "protecting it's citizens" excuse as a cause for invasion. It's a setup, pure and simple. The Ukraine is attempting to join NATO as well and it's not sitting well with Moscow at all.

what is the basic necessity for NATO to come so close to the Russian borders? It seems very unfriendly. Nor friendly is the missile base in Poland, which cost America another 20 billion! dollars.

Let me ask you this, when your citizens are getting killed, shot and executed what will your country do?


i'm taking it that you are a hardcore republican. Its funny how anti-russian retoric is dominant with McCain. They turn to it every time they can't face REAL problems, like 50 trillion of debt, weak economy, recession. Lets all blame the Soviets. oh wait, they are not around anymore. ah, surely the Russians are still the there, lets blame them.

Every time a politician can't solve the real problem they turn to foreign affairs card. This is as played out as hell. Reagan, Bush etc they all did that.

Truth is, i dont know any smart people admiring this confrontation. This government is digging the hole deeper and deeper, instead of collaboration and business its spending more money fighting "threat" from Russia. Its just ridiculous.

[420sx]

Here's the "truth".

The Russians are just trying to scare the rest of their former republiks from joining the west and NATO. Georgia was attempting to join and the Russians started handing out passports, started getting the separatist riled up then used the "protecting it's citizens" excuse as a cause for invasion. It's a setup, pure and simple. The Ukraine is attempting to join NATO as well and it's not sitting well with Moscow at all.

Ukraines population by biggest majority does NOT want to be in NATO. Its a slavic nation, brothers or the russian people.

There is always some turd in a bunch, like president of ukraine Ushenko. their president's family fought on the side of the nazi Germany, so the hate for Russia is immense.

what was ukraine? little territory on the west of black sea, that joined Russian empire to seek protection from the turks in 1630

where does the word ukraine come from? derives from "okolo" which is about and "kraina" which is outskirts.
thats what the Polish named them in despise.

Just a little history lesson, eh? and all this in mid 17's century. After the world war 2, in the 60's, Krushev (carribean crisis by association since im sure you are not familiar with russian history) gave Ukrainian Soviet republic the Crimeria, which was never even part of ukraine to begin with. This was a stupid move to make the map's borders prettier. So after soviet union collapse ukraine got crimeria. As far as im concerned Kiev, which if you know what Kiev Rus is, has been the center of the russian and slavic civilization as we know it. Why is it "ukraine" i still can't understand.
NATO has no business in Ukraine.

[imotion s14]

they actually said Russia was right in response, however they say they are against military action. They basically approved without acknowledging independence of 2 republics.
Its diplomacy, China has its own problems with Taiwan thats why it didn't support this entirely.

Ron Paul predicted the conflict in Georgia.. in 2002.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya6JfFK_lYQ

Proof that you are dead wrong. This was all planned and Russia is the clear instigator.

what is the basic necessity for NATO to come so close to the Russian borders? It seems very unfriendly. Nor friendly is the missile base in Poland, which cost America another 20 billion! dollars.

We already discussed the missile base. They're defensive anti-ballistic missiles ie they shoot down other other missiles and have NO offensive capability ie they don't carry warheads. Try to keep up.

Let me ask you this, when your citizens are getting killed, shot and executed what will your country do?

First I'd ask why my fellow "citizens" are in another sovereign country. We already discussed this issue. Your point has been refuted.

i'm taking it that you are a hardcore republican. Its funny how anti-russian retoric is dominant with McCain. They turn to it every time they can't face REAL problems, like 50 trillion of debt, weak economy, recession. Lets all blame the Soviets. oh wait, they are not around anymore. ah, surely the Russians are still the there, lets blame them.

Actually I'm a Constitutional Libertarian who believes in non-intervention foreign policy, no military alliances, Anti-NAFTA, for sound monetary policy and small government. But that doesn't mean I ignore reality and can't call out bullshit when I see it ie your argument.

Thanks for playing. Please Try again.

Truth is, i dont know any smart people admiring this confrontation. This government is digging the hole deeper and deeper, instead of collaboration and business its spending more money fighting "threat" from Russia. Its just ridiculous.

The fact is--the TRUTH is Russia is the aggressor. Ron Paul commented on Georgie-Russia years ago so it's proof this wasn't just something that happened over night.

They handed out passports to people in a soverign country which they recognize in international treaties. They created "citizens" then use it as a pretense for invasion. Does protecting your "citizens" include absorbing the land of another soverign nation?

[420sx]

wow. you got it all twisted, but I'm not even going to reconcile your opinion. Poland is ideal for intercepting some missiles for Russia but certainly not the best choice for iranian missles, which by the way are in fetus stage (they can't even launch anything with capability over 500kilom)

Even though you keep insulting me with "try to keep up", you refuse to listen to what I tell you in the first place. You should work for Washington Post; you would fit right in.

Best of luck to you in your life journey or finding unbiased information; I hope you never become a journalist ;)


p.s.
I do see you have good motivations in your political standpoint. non-involvement in foreign affairs would greatly reduce 50 trillion debt. This government has been living in debt for too long, i can't see how they will get out of this hole without debt again. They are going to have to create an investment vehicle for mortgage buyback so the market doesn't go down in tsunami, unemployment is way up and there is no other source of cash but debt; not like they will be willing to "cut the spending".

[420sx]

First I'd ask why my fellow "citizens" are in another sovereign country. We already discussed this issue. Your point has been refuted.
?

you did read the link, right? its a perma conflict, what sovereign state can you have with georgians after 1992 with over 20000 killed and this war. both republics being de-facto independent since 1992.

why oh why don't you just read?:sadwavey: none of those people want to be "georgians". they are not by any means, nor can they live with those people. that was the case in 1992 and thats the case now after what the georgians did. Who else will they turn to except for Russia? nations have close ties since 18s century, part of Russian empire

[stiizy]

I just wanna know why America feels like they should police the world??

it aint our shit so why get into it??

And i think Esmorz meant America World Police with those pix he posted...