project mu SCR or dba 4000 (slotted or xdrilled)

[xpertsnowcarver]

the search wore me out. keywords i used were either too specific or too broad leaving me with only 1 page of results or 12..

the DBA 4000, whether slotted or x-drilled/slotted, sound awesome. especially after finding plenty of info in the skyline forums and a couple youtube videos. damn austies have it good...

YouTube - DBA 4000 & 5000 series performance brake rotors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdvUxqKj-Zc)

YouTube - DBA and V-Sport Brake Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f79EesoDj3U)

http://media-images.rpmware.com/group-bd2c41eb-4d9e-4c56-a32a-2535a54b7870-420.jpg

where as i couldn't really find squat on the project mu SCRs. no real technical info on the skyline forums. couldn't find a youtube video on how it handles brake abuse. from what ive found, the venting is basic factory design with straight slots but seem a little more spread out. but thats about it.. can't seem to find a comparison test on google or youtube.

http://www.mackinindustries.com/md/projectmu/Resources/scrppsd624aa.jpeg http://www.mackinindustries.com/md/projectmu/Resources/rotorscra.jpeg

so far it looks like it'll be dba for me. if u guys know some better links, or have personal experience, let me know. plan on buying a pair pretty soon. my car is mainly track use. cars sees street time maybe once every 2 weeks.

[Massimo Power]

I say go with the DBA.. I have project Mu on my Evo and they are starting to warp.. not liking it.. I can hook u up with DBA's if you need some as well.. just pm me with what you are looking for. Good luck

[Def]

Are those two piece rotors? If not, why bother? Just get some cheap blanks and be done with it. Cross drilled rotors will groove no matter what pads you use - kind of annoying.

Curved/directional vents are good too if you're buying "expensive rotors" - increasing cooling by a great deal over straight vane rotors.

[vvtisupra]

Are those two piece rotors? If not, why bother? Just get some cheap blanks and be done with it. Cross drilled rotors will groove no matter what pads you use - kind of annoying.

Curved/directional vents are good too if you're buying "expensive rotors" - increasing cooling by a great deal over straight vane rotors.

Hit the nail right on the head with the curved vane. StopTech aerorotor design cools up to 25% more than conventional straight vane rotors. You don't need to use jdm product to brake better. StopTech makes sport slot rotors for your car as does powerslot. Both are high quality products. And I can attest to this because im sitting in front of the brake dyno testing them all day here at StopTech. Could be a marketing scheme? Nah i don't get paid to say this i'm a technitian not a marketing guy. I'm running power slots and have lasted me a good 3 years of track/daily driving and its still working well.

Also, crossdrilled is out dated by new pad compound. . Not only are you decreasing the surface area but you are decreasing the area in which the pad transfer material make contact. Pad transfer is the material your pads leave on the rotor during break in procedures (for proper break in procedure check out the white papers on stoptech's website). The pad transfered material is actually the friction compound that is used to perform stops. This is why it is important to bed in breaks properly. Anyways with the development of pad compounds most pads these days operate at a higher temperature. The inceased heat is more stress on the bores of the cross drilled rotors which can lead to stress cracks. These stress cracks occur due to a constant heating and cooling cycles of your daily driving. Not every rotor will crack, but having them crossdrilled increases the chances.

There are ton of more material on the subject of brakes on our website. Most of it is written by the head engineer here at StopTech who has written stuff for SAE etc. A lot of the information can be applied to brakes in general. I recommend it to everybody who works on their own brakes. We even have a section on how to properly bed in new brakes. They are definately good reads. If you want check it out on our website under technical information and if you want to know more of our product and how it has done in racing you can check the proven technology section.

Also i recommend the white papers that explains pad transfer to that guy that says his brakes warped. They most likely aren't warped, just an uneven layer of pad transfer.

Read up guys its good stuff doesn't even feel like homework either cuz i hate reading and i still read all of it !


p.s. i only saw the first section of the DBA video and I can already let you know that its misleading. Every person knows there should be a standard to the test. You can't just change out the pads and rotors and say"see our rotors work better". It could just be the pads themselves that are better at resisting heat than the stock pads. If I were them i woulda tested stock pads with stock rotors, and then DBA rotors and stock pads. Then try stock rotors with hawk pads and then hawk pads with DBA rotors.


Anyways looks fishy to me. carry on

[racepar1]

Don't buy the crossdrilled ones. I agree with def though, unless you are getting 2-piece directionally vented rotors it is a waste of money. Brembo blanks will do the trick just fine for like 1/2 the cost.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

+3 for brembo blanks.

[s13dan]

Are those two piece rotors? If not, why bother? Just get some cheap blanks and be done with it. Cross drilled rotors will groove no matter what pads you use - kind of annoying.

Curved/directional vents are good too if you're buying "expensive rotors" - increasing cooling by a great deal over straight vane rotors.
^word. And one thing to remember is that the holes, or slots are not just about heat,although very important to consider. When braking gases generate between the pad and the rotor, hurting your stopping.The hole or slots are venting the gas (and heat) out . But if your brakes are able to lock up, then you have plenty of stopping power. Tires are what makes a big difference, unless your circut racing or something along those lines then long term heat is very important to consider and warping would be something to think about...

[xpertsnowcarver]

I say go with the DBA.. I have project Mu on my Evo and they are starting to warp.. not liking it.. I can hook u up with DBA's if you need some as well.. just pm me with what you are looking for. Good luck

will communicate with you very soon then. thanks for letting me know.

Are those two piece rotors? If not, why bother? Just get some cheap blanks and be done with it. Cross drilled rotors will groove no matter what pads you use - kind of annoying.

Curved/directional vents are good too if you're buying "expensive rotors" - increasing cooling by a great deal over straight vane rotors.

each option is 1 piece. the step up models for both project mu (Pro, Pure, etc) and DBA 5000 are 2 piece. not interested in that.

Hit the nail right on the head with the curved vane. StopTech aerorotor design cools up to 25% more than conventional straight vane rotors. You don't need to use jdm product to brake better. StopTech makes sport slot rotors for your car as does powerslot. Both are high quality products. And I can attest to this because im sitting in front of the brake dyno testing them all day here at StopTech. Could be a marketing scheme? Nah i don't get paid to say this i'm a technitian not a marketing guy. I'm running power slots and have lasted me a good 3 years of track/daily driving and its still working well.

Also, crossdrilled is out dated by new pad compound. . Not only are you decreasing the surface area but you are decreasing the area in which the pad transfer material make contact. Pad transfer is the material your pads leave on the rotor during break in procedures (for proper break in procedure check out the white papers on stoptech's website). The pad transfered material is actually the friction compound that is used to perform stops. This is why it is important to bed in breaks properly. Anyways with the development of pad compounds most pads these days operate at a higher temperature. The inceased heat is more stress on the bores of the cross drilled rotors which can lead to stress cracks. These stress cracks occur due to a constant heating and cooling cycles of your daily driving. Not every rotor will crack, but having them crossdrilled increases the chances.

There are ton of more material on the subject of brakes on our website. Most of it is written by the head engineer here at StopTech who has written stuff for SAE etc. A lot of the information can be applied to brakes in general. I recommend it to everybody who works on their own brakes. We even have a section on how to properly bed in new brakes. They are definately good reads. If you want check it out on our website under technical information and if you want to know more of our product and how it has done in racing you can check the proven technology section.

Also i recommend the white papers that explains pad transfer to that guy that says his brakes warped. They most likely aren't warped, just an uneven layer of pad transfer.

Read up guys its good stuff doesn't even feel like homework either cuz i hate reading and i still read all of it !


p.s. i only saw the first section of the DBA video and I can already let you know that its misleading. Every person knows there should be a standard to the test. You can't just change out the pads and rotors and say"see our rotors work better". It could just be the pads themselves that are better at resisting heat than the stock pads. If I were them i woulda tested stock pads with stock rotors, and then DBA rotors and stock pads. Then try stock rotors with hawk pads and then hawk pads with DBA rotors.

Anyways looks fishy to me. carry on

you just blew my mind, haha. looks like ill be scrutinizing this a lot more.

the reason why i boiled it down to these two brands is because its for my r33 brakes. the skyline folks talk about dba all day so im very close to getting the dba 4000 x-drilled/slotted. im not worried so much about brake pad wear (though which brake pads ill be getting is still on my list), my car see light outside my garage at most once every 2 weeks. so its more for track use. oem rotors won't do it for me less i had the r32 gtr canted rotors or r33 gtr brembos. im pretty sure if Massimo is warping his SCR rotors, ill be warping the OEM.

as for the brembos, those were great on my last car without a doubt. i'd would simply like to experience a new brand. thats why i never mentioned brembo.

will be doing more digging. thanks for your inputs so far. looking for more people to cast their vote

[ROIDMONKEY]

im running the project MU BBK on the front (slotted, no drilled) and project mu rears (slotted/drilled) . i dont do track with this car so i cant tell u that much. been on my car for around 5 months so far so good , performance wise is amazing how car stops. i was using z32 brakes b4 and i thought my car was stopping good ,when i installed the project MU BBK front and rear rotors(z32 calipers rears) first impression was like WTFFFF . amazing

[murda-c]

^word. And one thing to remember is that the holes, or slots are not just about heat,although very important to consider. When braking gases generate between the pad and the rotor, hurting your stopping.The hole or slots are venting the cas (and heat) out . But if your brakes are able to lock up, then you have plenty of stopping power. Tires are what makes a big difference, unless your circut racing or something along those lines then long term heat is very important to consider and warping would be something to think about...


I thought modern metallic pads didn't outgas.

[s13dan]

carbon or kevlar pads do...

[xpertsnowcarver]

dang.. after seeing this... i don't want to get x-drilled anymore... i always knew cross drilled cracked eventually. but man...

YouTube - overheated brake rotors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmW9c-7KCqA&feature=related)

im looking at the dba 4000 slotted vs Project Mu SCR. hoping for a couple more votes. most of my decision will end up being cost vs opinion.

[Mirage]

the reason why i boiled it down to these two brands is because its for my r33 brakes. the skyline folks talk about dba all day so im very close to getting the dba 4000 x-drilled/slotted. im not worried so much about brake pad wear (though which brake pads ill be getting is still on my list), my car see light outside my garage at most once every 2 weeks. so its more for track use. oem rotors won't do it for me less i had the r32 gtr canted rotors or r33 gtr brembos. im pretty sure if Massimo is warping his SCR rotors, ill be warping the OEM.

as for the brembos, those were great on my last car without a doubt. i'd would simply like to experience a new brand. thats why i never mentioned brembo.

will be doing more digging. thanks for your inputs so far. looking for more people to cast their vote

I ended up getting the DBA 4000 - just slotted for my R33 GT-S fronts, mainly because I couldn't find rotors reasonably priced anywhere else (IIRC from buybrakes.com), except someone clearanced out some OEM R32 GT-R blanks for dirt cheap the week after I ordered them, but I didn't know if the 32mm would fit vs the 30m. If I could of found brembo blanks that would of fit without machining/spacing I would of gone that route.

I would not make a decision based on someone else warping rotors. It could be them simply leaving there car parked on hot pads/rotors without a cool down where all the heat is concentrated on one stop, or just a plain lack of ducting.

[racepar1]

im running the project MU BBK on the front (slotted, no drilled) and project mu rears (slotted/drilled) . i dont do track with this car so i cant tell u that much. been on my car for around 5 months so far so good , performance wise is amazing how car stops. i was using z32 brakes b4 and i thought my car was stopping good ,when i installed the project MU BBK front and rear rotors(z32 calipers rears) first impression was like WTFFFF . amazing

A big brake kit actually does not make the car stop any shorter. You can only put as much braking force to the ground as your tires can handle. If you can lock the brakes with the stock brakes then it is not possible to put any more braking force then that to the ground. It is actually quite common for BBK's to stop slightly longer than factory brakes in braking distance tests. That's not to say that there are no benefits though.

What big brakes Do help is:

1-heat sink capability
Bigger brakes can dissapate more energy without overheating. This means more consistent braking performance. At the end of the 30 min session at the track the car will actually stop better even though it can't at the beginning of the session.

2-pedal feel
Depending on the size of the piston bores that are used the pedal feel can be adjusted to feel either harder or softer, depending on what the car/driver needs. The amount of feedback that is transmitted to the driver through the brake pedal can also be improved.

3-brake bias
Once again depending on the piston bore sizes used the fr/r bias of the braking system can be changed. This CAN actually improve stopping distances, but only if the factory system is improperly biased. However most of the cars that have BBK's available for them are "sports cars" in some shape or form and it is not common for cars like that to have poor bias from the factory.

4-brake modulation
Bigger brakes can be easier to modulate, which is important for threshold braking.

5-initial bite
Bigger brakes tend to bite harder initially, this can be both a good and a bad thing. Initial bite generally has more to do with pad selection though.

I would suspect that your feeling of "amazing performance" was due more to the pads then the brakes themselves. Also it probably required less pedal effort to stop the car, which also contributed to that feeling. Keep in mind here that I am not trying to insult you, just to educate. Your opinion is a very common one because the vast majority of people don't truly understand how brakes actually work.

[xpertsnowcarver]

I didn't know if the 32mm would fit vs the 30m.

I would not make a decision based on someone else warping rotors. It could be them simply leaving there car parked on hot pads/rotors without a cool down where all the heat is concentrated on one stop, or just a plain lack of ducting.

32mm would basically fit if ur pads were shaved/worn 2mm down. but time come for new pads, they wouldn't fit.

that last part you said was a good point. so far most people voted for the SCR but haven't posted much on details. still doing research. bugging people by pm ;)

You can only put as much braking force to the ground as your tires can handle.

spot on. i couldn't add to that or id just be repeating everything.

[ROIDMONKEY]

A big brake kit actually does not make the car stop any shorter. You can only put as much braking force to the ground as your tires can handle. If you can lock the brakes with the stock brakes then it is not possible to put any more braking force then that to the ground. It is actually quite common for BBK's to stop slightly longer than factory brakes in braking distance tests. That's not to say that there are no benefits though.

What big brakes Do help is:

1-heat sink capability
Bigger brakes can dissapate more energy without overheating. This means more consistent braking performance. At the end of the 30 min session at the track the car will actually stop better even though it can't at the beginning of the session.

2-pedal feel
Depending on the size of the piston bores that are used the pedal feel can be adjusted to feel either harder or softer, depending on what the car/driver needs. The amount of feedback that is transmitted to the driver through the brake pedal can also be improved.

3-brake bias
Once again depending on the piston bore sizes used the fr/r bias of the braking system can be changed. This CAN actually improve stopping distances, but only if the factory system is improperly biased. However most of the cars that have BBK's available for them are "sports cars" in some shape or form and it is not common for cars like that to have poor bias from the factory.

4-brake modulation
Bigger brakes can be easier to modulate, which is important for threshold braking.

5-initial bite
Bigger brakes tend to bite harder initially, this can be both a good and a bad thing. Initial bite generally has more to do with pad selection though.

I would suspect that your feeling of "amazing performance" was due more to the pads then the brakes themselves. Also it probably required less pedal effort to stop the car, which also contributed to that feeling. Keep in mind here that I am not trying to insult you, just to educate. Your opinion is a very common one because the vast majority of people don't truly understand how brakes actually work.
no insult taken bro, i love reading ur post. I was using HAWK pads with 330mm power by max rotors with z32 calipers. braking was great but braking improved 20-30% after doing the BBK from PMU. my old setup was kinda BBK too. PMU are 345mm and PBM were 330 , pads with the old setup were HAWK (forgot what model but not the basic , was the track/street one i think) other important point on my setup is that im running RT615 tires, they are sticky , good grip

[s13dan]

i have stock brakes with carbon pads(hawk),and with the right tires i bet i can stop just as short as almost anyone with big brake kit or Z32 brake. What i cant do is mulitple lap racing, that would destroy my set up! Sportcompact did a great brakes test with a miata a while back but i cant find the article.

[racepar1]

i have stock brakes with carbon pads(hawk),and with the right tires i bet i can stop just as short as almost anyone with big brake kit or Z32 brake. What i cant do is mulitple lap racing, that would destroy my set up! Sportcompact did a great brakes test with a miata a while back but i cant find the article.

With the right pads, fluid, and a brake ducting set-up yes you can do multiple lap "racing". I have been running like that for 5 events so far with 0 problems. As a matter of fact I had a guy in an evo brake himself right off the end of the track trying to run away from me at my last event. Stock brakes work awesome! Another great braking article from SCC mag is "point brake". It is a comparison test between the stoptech big brake kit (2 versions of it if you pay attention) and stock brakes on a RSX type s. After that Dave wrote "the point of point brake" in the "dear dave" column which clarifies certain points of the "point brake" article.

[Def]

No way stock brakes will hold up to more than 200-250 rwhp no matter how much ducting you have in my experience. That gets a Z32 setup a good workout with a decent set of track pads up front. More power than that and you operate at the upper end of a good track pad's temp range even with ducting.

[irax]

Kangaroo paw ventilation...

soo serious

just get the slotted and not the slotted/drilled.

[racepar1]

No way stock brakes will hold up to more than 200-250 rwhp no matter how much ducting you have in my experience. That gets a Z32 setup a good workout with a decent set of track pads up front. More power than that and you operate at the upper end of a good track pad's temp range even with ducting.

SCCA IT racecars are required to use the stock brakes. Also 75% of zilvia has less than 250 rwhp. That is the equivalent of a mildly modded SR, which is all most people have. If you have 300-400 whp then yes you certainly want to upgrade, but 30mm z-brakes with some brake ducts will do the trick just fine.

[s13dan]

I use a high temp brake fluid,carbon pads, and blank rotors, i replace the rotor if anything happens they are cheap so f*ck it. I have great pedal feel and the car stops great! I would suggest it to anyone, and yea currenlty im making about 250whp, soon ill be around 300+ and ill see if they still do their job. When i have R compounds on its nutz how it stops! The tires make the difference, if you can slide when stopping then the brakes are fine, get better tires.

[SexPanda]

^^^ Totally agree. Tires make the difference. Brakes are generally designed to work pretty well for anything a road can throw at you. Upgrade them a little with better pads, fluid, lines, and rotors, and they'll be great. Rubber is what stops you, what brake setup you have basically determines how many times you can let the rubber stop you.

OF course if you have a track only car, and you dont drive it on the roads... then disregard that. Get some nice big brakes lol. Stopping is as important as starting when it comes to 110 degree angles with 3 feet of grass between you and a concrete divider, and of course with a track car, you already have good rubbers hopefully.

[Def]

SCCA IT racecars are required to use the stock brakes. Also 75% of zilvia has less than 250 rwhp. That is the equivalent of a mildly modded SR, which is all most people have. If you have 300-400 whp then yes you certainly want to upgrade, but 30mm z-brakes with some brake ducts will do the trick just fine.

Well I wouldn't equate the average IT car and the average Zilvia car either, but you're right.

IT guys are making what.. maybe 170-180 rwhp?

[McCoy]

SCCA IT racecars are required to use the stock brakes.
Ask a few of those IT guys how long a set of rotors/pads last. The last guy I talked to (Sentra IT guy) went through a set of rotors each day and had to run Carbotech XP10 pads to even do that. That's with a 130whp sentra.

[Brian]

I'd go for the Japanese ones.

You cannot go wring with the Japanese brakes.

I ended up with R32 GTR drilled rotors, calipers, Endless pads and fluid.

It's the best you could possibly buy.

Japan or bust.

[S14SwimShark105]

SCCA IT racecars are required to use the stock brakes.

This is true, but their cars are stripped to the bone and are in race trim, they weigh significantly less than the average car.
And like Mccoy said,they have to use super agressive pads that eat rotors like nothing.

And that video posted up about how the drilled rotors crack, if you read the comments the guy even said they were NAPA rotors.
I have AP racing 4 piston big brake kit with drilled and slotted rotors and have been tracking for awhile now with no problems at all.

Get the DBA's ,straight vane rotors are no good.

[JRas]

brembo blanks ftw

a friend of mine uses those autozone lifetime warranty rotors on his track car with stock brakes, but with high performance pads.. ends up cracking and warping the shit out of the rotors.. just returns them and gets a new set :)

I know with stock brakes, street pads, and regular brake fluid.. I couldn't lock my fronts and had brake fade issues.. just from a few laps around the track. the stock brakes are fine for normal driving and the occasional emergency stop.. but they are designed to get to operating temperature from just normal driving. On a track, where you're threshold braking it's gonna put a lot more stress on them and cause them to overheat quickly.

I wouldn't use them for track purposes, unless my car weighed significantly less.

[s15specR]

I'm still at a lost on brake rotors lol !!!!!

[OptionZero]

what the fuck is there to get lost about

get blanks from your autoparts store

good pads (porterfield)

good fluid

done

[BlitzRPS13]

im running the project MU BBK on the front (slotted, no drilled) and project mu rears (slotted/drilled) . i dont do track with this car so i cant tell u that much. been on my car for around 5 months so far so good , performance wise is amazing how car stops. i was using z32 brakes b4 and i thought my car was stopping good ,when i installed the project MU BBK front and rear rotors(z32 calipers rears) first impression was like WTFFFF . amazing

I have the Project Mu slotted rotors front and rear, mu pads front and rear.. and GTR brakes up front.. z32 rear.. with an upgraded e-brake cable and performance fluid... stops on a dime lol.. can't even imagine with a bigger caliper. Car weighs 2464 lbs too.