Chevy Cobalt no more. Chevy Cruze

[exitspeed]

Full Story here. (http://www.autoilluminati.com/?p=184)

Basically the Cobalt is being replaced with a global vehicle.

Looks pretty good. I'm sure the SS Turbo charged version will be pretty nice.
http://www.autoilluminati.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/000_11chevycruze-300x199.jpg

[stiizy]

I see 5 series somewhere in there or is it just me??

And somewhat of the new sentra's flat body

[Unholy S14]

kinda old news, here is an interior shot

http://thecarfanatic.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/cruze-interior.jpg

[exitspeed]

kinda old news, here is an interior shot

http://thecarfanatic.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/cruze-interior.jpg

The fact the car is coming out is old news, but these official pics from GM are HOT off the presses. This is the first completely unmasked pics that have been released.

The interior is top notch and is supposed to be world class for a small car.

[stiizy]

i like the interior wow

[exitspeed]

i like the interior wow

Compared to a Civic or Corolla it's loads better.

As of about 3 years ago GM has made a hell of an attempt at making beautiful interiors. Just look at the Malibu's, or CTS's for proof.

[stiizy]

Yeah the CTS is gorgeous i'm thinking of leasing one as a daily...

The Malibu is also nice inside a friend has one....

[RiversideS13]

OMG the interior is better than new mercedese C class!

is this korean dude the main designer? taewan kim (http://www.designboom.com/adv/taewan.html)

[Dutchmalmiss]

Wow not bad at all. I'm excited for an SS version. The current Cobalt SS is supposedly pretty nimble on the track. Anyone have any experience with 'em?

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

the Focus and Cobalt was an epic failure of a car. The car looks nice and the interior looks like a car 3x it's price, but I will continue to doubt Chevy economy motors (ie 4cyl). The company I work for has a contract with Chevy for fleet vehicles and management strongly persuades us to not get cars. Even though they're so much better on gas, it costs more for the repairs than it would save on gas on cost of car. They even charge us about $40 a month if we chose to go with what use to be a Cobalt. Thank god I'm eligible to get a Silverado :)

also it looks like that Chevy took styling ques from the g.

[exitspeed]

Wow not bad at all. I'm excited for an SS version. The current Cobalt SS is supposedly pretty nimble on the track. Anyone have any experience with 'em?

I don't have first hand experience with them, but they are nimble and perform very well. In fact the new SS ran afaster time around The Ring then the original G32 GTR. Yes, this is a fact. Not bad for $20k car. Sure we're comparing a brand new car to an old car, but it doesn't make it any less impressive.

the...Cobalt was an epic failure of a car.

I disagree. Looking at what I stated above, I don't see epic failure written anywhere.

It's also one of GM's best selling cars.

You can't expect fleet vehicles to not have problems. People take piss poor car of them. Or actually I should say they don't take care of them.

[jackjack]

hmmmmm

not bad

maybe for a dd

[BustedS13]

considering cobalts sell for like 10k for the base, that's not a bad looking car.

[VROOOM]

I don't have first hand experience with them, but they are nimble and perform very well. In fact the new SS ran afaster time around The Ring then the original G32 GTR. Yes, this is a fact. Not bad for $20k car. Sure we're comparing a brand new car to an old car, but it doesn't make it any less impressive.



I disagree. Looking at what I stated above, I don't see epic failure written anywhere.

It's also one of GM's best selling cars.

You can't expect fleet vehicles to not have problems. People take piss poor car of them. Or actually I should say they don't take care of them.

whats even better is the Cobalt SS ran the Ring 2 seconds slower than the new 2010 Camaro SS.

Gm should put the Cobalt SS drivetrain and suspension in the Saturn Astra. the astra looks cool but has no power.

[exitspeed]

whats even better is the Cobalt SS ran the Ring 2 seconds slower than the new 2010 Camaro SS.

Gm should put the Cobalt SS drivetrain and suspension in the Saturn Astra. the astra looks cool but has no power.

I think they are waiting on the next gen Astra to up the anti. I believe the next gen Astra will be on the same global platform so it shouldn't be an issue. And if the next gen Astra goes the styling route of the next Aura....skeet skeet.

Insignia/Next Gen Aura
http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/2009-Opel-Insignia-5.jpg

[stiizy]

^^ looks like a curvier C class no??

C-Class and that new 4 door Jag towards the back...

[drift freaq]

I just had the pleasure or displeasure, of driving a rental Cobalt. I actually took it down HWY 198 between King City and Coalinga. It handled quite well and got great gas mileage. It also had decent power for what it was. Compared to how Chevy Caveliers have been in the past the Cobalt was a big step up. Interior had been improved but what is pictured above is much better. As far as repair costs go. Have any of you checked how much dealer repair costs for Nissan, Toyota, Honda is these days. All repairs costs short of private independents is through the ceiling period. Lets just not get started on parts costs. It would make you pass out.

[exitspeed]

^^ looks like an ATTRACTIVE C class no??



Fixed for ya. lol

[stiizy]

True good fix .....

[silviaguy240]

I think they are waiting on the next gen Astra to up the anti. I believe the next gen Astra will be on the same global platform so it shouldn't be an issue. And if the next gen Astra goes the styling route of the next Aura....skeet skeet.

Insignia/Next Gen Aura
http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/2009-Opel-Insignia-5.jpg

yea, but we wont get the rumored 6spd TT v6.....and they need to come out with AWD. that new Passat CC is gonna be a tough competitor for the aura/malibu next year. and the 4 cylinders aura/malibu need to go to the euro spec 2.0T, instead of the 2.4 they have now, its slow as balls. but that 3.6 , supercharge that thing and you got yourself a sleeper.


Passat CC
http://www.tuningnews.net/news/080113e/volkswagen-passat-cc.jpg

[Antihero983]

a friend of mine has the new Cobalt SS turbo, and as much as i hate to admit it, its a pretty damned decent car.

i hope the cruze follows suit, even if it has a retarded name.

[stiizy]

I'm sure that Passat is like 5-10 grand more also...

[ESmorz]

I'm sure that Passat is like 5-10 grand more also...

But it's also $5-10K better looking...

:D

[silviaguy240]

nah, it will compete with the next gen aura most likely (projected for 2010). i think base on the passat CC (2009 model) is about 26,500 which the current aura's XR base is about 24,500 and can go to ~30,000. and seeing saturns current trends, the price on the new aura will go up. since the last VUE (06-07) you could get fully loaded for ~ 18000 (leather, power everything,sunroof, awd blah blah blah) now fully loaded is about 26000. the aura probably isnt going to go up much, since its already pretty nice, and its not gonna be a complete chassis change i dont think..so the base msrp will probably go up 3000-5000

[stiizy]

http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/2009-Opel-Insignia-5.jpg

But it's also $5-10K better looking...

:D

I'll take this over the Passat in the looks department all day:bigok::bigok:

[SimpleS14]

I like the new Chevy Cruze, but I don't get the name change. Usually when I nameplate is phased out, the value of those cars depreciate at a horrid rate.

Anywho, I hope GM sticks with this name and bring it over sooner...because they really need it. Heck, they need something to compete with the global platform Focus that is bound to come stateside.

I'm sure that Passat is like 5-10 grand more also...


with questionable long-term reliability

[exitspeed]

I think the Insignia is far more attractive then the next gen Passat. The Passat has too many character lines and creases. It looks "less euro" then the Insignia.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

Insignia/Next Gen Aura
http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/2009-Opel-Insignia-5.jpg

reminds me of an altima with a c-class front. the interior of the cruze is like the rota version of an infiniti interior. i dunno. cavalier/cobalt/cruze don't do anything for me. and the cobalt ss has always been a car that i've disliked. (but that probably has to do with "SRT-4 syndrome" i.e. douchebag owners)

[VROOOM]

This is the Astra i think they should sell here. srry my photobucket acct is acting up so here is a link.


Opel Revs Up Image With Astra OPC Nurburgring Edition (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122338)

[exitspeed]

This is the Astra i think they should sell here. srry my photobucket acct is acting up so here is a link.


Opel Revs Up Image With Astra OPC Nurburgring Edition (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122338)




http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/news/2007/0827/astra.opc.nurburgring.500.jpg


Yea, that would be dope.

It's too bad the Astra has had such poor sales so far. It really is a damn good car, and to date GM's best small car they've ever had, by far.

[S13shaka]

I disagree. Looking at what I stated above, I don't see epic failure written anywhere.

no its a failure. Why? Because there are still a large contigent of people that would rather buy used cars from the 80s,90s because of the complete lack of enticement and packaging that new cars including the Cobalt, lack.

[drift freaq]

reminds me of an altima with a c-class front. the interior of the cruze is like the rota version of an infiniti interior. i dunno. cavalier/cobalt/cruze don't do anything for me. and the cobalt ss has always been a car that i've disliked. (but that probably has to do with "SRT-4 syndrome" i.e. douchebag owners)

See you suffer from the same problem the rest of us do, and I am guilty of it too! Its a built in bias against anything American car makers do. I don't deny it though. Once upon a time when I was a child I was not this way. Thing is, I rented a car this last week a Chevy Cobalt. It was not my first choice but they gave it to me dirt cheap $116 for 6 days! From Hertz! It was all they had on the lot that day.
So I drove it. Much to my surprise, It got great gas mileage. It had decent power. It handled well! Wait hold on here. I was actually feeling comfortable with this car. Sure there were pet peeves. I actually wanted to find problems with this car! Can we say built in bias? I can, you should too!
I felt the interior was cheap, but compared to how far GM has come on interiors in the last 3 years it was not bad. Still playing catch up with the Japanese? Yes. Closer to the end goal? Yes.
In the end instead of trying to be a Clarkson and criticize this thing because I can, I looked at the improvements and was impressed. If GM is going to get better part of it is us throwing out our bias and giving them a chance.

Japanese cars in the 70's were tin cans. I mean really tin cans.

Shit even lots of peoples beloved AE86's are fucking tin can pieces of shit. Ya I said that.
AE86's are fucking little pieces of shit that Toyota never intended to be more than a tin can econo car. It was never designed to be a sports car it was never intended to be what it has become. It was not even built that well. hahahhahahaha show me an 86 interior that has not fallen apart hahahhahahhaha.
Maybe thats way I have always had a hard time having any desire to own one LOL.

Now before any 86 owners here get their panties in a bunch. You would be lying to yourself if you did not admit you know this. Its not meant to offend its just a fucking fact.
Hell even my first Nissan the one that started it all for me the beloved Datsun 510 was a tin can compared to Detroit and European Iron of the day.
GM is making progress and you better pray it does because it effects our economy in a major way when they fail.

[silviaguy240]

Now that would be a nice astra because the power would make up for the other shittyness......current ones are slow, no room, controls are fucking stupid, huge blind spots. they look pretty good, but...interior of the car just kills it...and the price. a 3 door manual with a few options costs ~19,000 just go buy a GTI, or a Fit S. gti has more space and more power, ergonomics are better, but i havent driven a Fit S but from what ive seen its bigger insider, can see out of it better and it may be slower, but has good aftermarket support.

[exitspeed]

no its a failure. Why? Because there are still a large contigent of people that would rather buy used cars from the 80s,90s because of the complete lack of enticement and packaging that new cars including the Cobalt, lack.

That is your opinion.

[ESmorz]

See you suffer from the same problem the rest of us do, and I am guilty of it too! Its a built in bias against anything American car makers do. I don't deny it though. Once upon a time when I was a child I was not this way. Thing is, I rented a car this last week a Chevy Cobalt. It was not my first choice but they gave it to me dirt cheap $116 for 6 days! From Hertz! It was all they had on the lot that day.
So I drove it. Much to my surprise, It got great gas mileage. It had decent power. It handled well! Wait hold on here. I was actually feeling comfortable with this car. Sure there were pet peeves. I actually wanted to find problems with this car! Can we say built in bias? I can, you should too!
I felt the interior was cheap, but compared to how far GM has come on interiors in the last 3 years it was not bad. Still playing catch up with the Japanese? Yes. Closer to the end goal? Yes.
In the end instead of trying to be a Clarkson and criticize this thing because I can, I looked at the improvements and was impressed. If GM is going to get better part of it is us throwing out our bias and giving them a chance.

Japanese cars in the 70's were tin cans. I mean really tin cans.

Shit even lots of peoples beloved AE86's are fucking tin can pieces of shit. Ya I said that.
AE86's are fucking little pieces of shit that Toyota never intended to be more than a tin can econo car. It was never designed to be a sports car it was never intended to be what it has become. It was not even built that well. hahahhahahaha show me an 86 interior that has not fallen apart hahahhahahhaha.
Maybe thats way I have always had a hard time having any desire to own one LOL.

Now before any 86 owners here get their panties in a bunch. You would be lying to yourself if you did not admit you know this. Its not meant to offend its just a fucking fact.
Hell even my first Nissan the one that started it all for me the beloved Datsun 510 was a tin can compared to Detroit and European Iron of the day.
GM is making progress and you better pray it does because it effects our economy in a major way when they fail.

I agree whole heartedly.

But I'd rather have my $1,100 piece of shit tin can with actually decent interior than a Cobalt.

I never got whole this whole dynamic worked though... People who own and customize Cobalts drool over my little tin wagon that I got for literally 1/20 of what they paid off the lot.

It's a topsy turvy world.

[OptionZero]

wow, i applaud chevy

they made a car UGLIER than the cobalt

[Gnnr]

Wow, the interior doesn't have retardedly jumbo buttons and knobs! Looks good.

the Focus and Cobalt was an epic failure of a car. .

If Ford would have brought their Euro Focus it would have been different. But that is going to change now.

Rumormill: Ford converting North American factories to make European cars - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/15/rumormill-ford-converting-north-american-factories-to-make-euro/)

Further proof that future Fords will have Euro flair - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/17/further-proof-that-future-fords-will-have-euro-flair/)

Ford: We can make money on small cars! - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/13/ford-we-can-make-money-on-small-cars/)

[VROOOM]

this is interesting. Hahn Racecraft ran a new Cobalt SS

List of total mods:

Hahn PPC Tuner
Hahn 3" CatBack Exhaust
Hahn Prototype CAI
M/T Drag Radials on stock TC wheels



60' 2.083
330' 5.620
1/8 8.508
MPH 84.89
1000' 11.004
1/4 13.115
MPH 106.55

[exitspeed]

Wow, the interior doesn't have retardedly jumbo buttons and knobs! Looks good.



If Ford would have brought their Euro Focus it would have been different. But that is going to change now.

Rumormill: Ford converting North American factories to make European cars - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/15/rumormill-ford-converting-north-american-factories-to-make-euro/)

Further proof that future Fords will have Euro flair - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/17/further-proof-that-future-fords-will-have-euro-flair/)

Ford: We can make money on small cars! - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/13/ford-we-can-make-money-on-small-cars/)

Yep, the Euro invasion is upon us.

[Antihero983]

Ford: We can make money on small cars! - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/13/ford-we-can-make-money-on-small-cars/)

gee, no shit huh?!

if only they realized that 15 YEARS AGO.

dumbasses.

[Mtndrifter14]

Looks like a vauxhall to me. GM now turns to the australians all the time.

[exitspeed]

Looks like a vauxhall to me. GM now turns to the australians all the time.

Which is not a bad thing.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

long paragraph.


please. grow up. my favorite cars growing up were muscle cars. i still desire a firebird/trans am/gto, past, present, and future. there's a reason that american car manufacturers are suffering. do you think it's because everyone in the US has an "import preference" like "i do"? no, it's because for YEARS they designed, produced, and sold PIECES OF SHIT. 85% of materials produced in mexico? get the fuck out of here. i didn't "prefer" to buy an import. my family was (and is) poor. we don't have the money to buy a NEW american car every 3 years. that's why we bought USED japanese cars that don't need to be replaced unless:

a. they explode into flames suddenly
b. it gets wrecked
c. we suddenly become ballin' off the fuckin' chain

the average american consumer replaces their auto every few years, and i think that's why american cars are engineered to be piles of feces in about 3-4 years. do YOU want a 2003 ford taurus? i don't.

i've made NUMEROUS posts supporting american cars on this forum, look it up; i suppose you have time since you can write big ass responses all the time. fact of the matter is, the big three haven't made anything desirable in a long time. shut your fucking mouth if you mention viper, corvette, CTS-V, etc etc. the chevy cruze is supposed to be a car for the masses. ford focus? dodge caliber? or maybe a honda civic? toyota corolla? excitement? no, but if you're in the market for these types of cars (passenger/daily/commuter), you aren't looking for "excitement". it's about quality and reliability. for years, the big three has proved that they aren't capable of making quality OR reliable cars. do i feel bad that the big three is HURTING right now? not really. it's their fault that they're fucked. poor product development, poor economic forecasting, poor everything.

that said, are they making better cars now? yes. but what does that count for after they've lost consumer confidence? they have to convince people that driving an american car isn't a waste of money. GM got smart and go figure, cars that look good and go well are actually what people want. so they brought in cars from europe and australia. awesome. why would that irk me? more choices of cars that i WANT and CAN AFFORD. whatever. i'm at work and i just wasted 15 minutes of project deadline time.



cliff notes: fuck your assumptions.

[Antihero983]

^ oh jesus.....that's gonna light the fuse.

[Dutchmalmiss]

^ oh jesus.....that's gonna light the fuse.

+1. The calm before the storm...

[exitspeed]

please. grow up. my favorite cars growing up were muscle cars. i still desire a firebird/trans am/gto, past, present, and future. there's a reason that american car manufacturers are suffering. do you think it's because everyone in the US has an "import preference" like "i do"? no, it's because for YEARS they designed, produced, and sold PIECES OF SHIT. 85% of materials produced in mexico? get the fuck out of here. i didn't "prefer" to buy an import. my family was (and is) poor. we don't have the money to buy a NEW american car every 3 years. that's why we bought USED japanese cars that don't need to be replaced unless:

a. they explode into flames suddenly
b. it gets wrecked
c. we suddenly become ballin' off the fuckin' chain

the average american consumer replaces their auto every few years, and i think that's why american cars are engineered to be piles of feces in about 3-4 years. do YOU want a 2003 ford taurus? i don't.

i've made NUMEROUS posts supporting american cars on this forum, look it up; i suppose you have time since you can write big ass responses all the time. fact of the matter is, the big three haven't made anything desirable in a long time. shut your fucking mouth if you mention viper, corvette, CTS-V, etc etc. the chevy cruze is supposed to be a car for the masses. ford focus? dodge caliber? or maybe a honda civic? toyota corolla? excitement? no, but if you're in the market for these types of cars (passenger/daily/commuter), you aren't looking for "excitement". it's about quality and reliability. for years, the big three has proved that they aren't capable of making quality OR reliable cars. do i feel bad that the big three is HURTING right now? not really. it's their fault that they're fucked. poor product development, poor economic forecasting, poor everything.

that said, are they making better cars now? yes. but what does that count for after they've lost consumer confidence? they have to convince people that driving an american car isn't a waste of money. GM got smart and go figure, cars that look good and go well are actually what people want. so they brought in cars from europe and australia. awesome. why would that irk me? more choices of cars that i WANT and CAN AFFORD. whatever. i'm at work and i just wasted 15 minutes of project deadline time.



cliff notes: fuck your assumptions.

I can agree with you on most of your points.

At least you see that they are making improvements.

But if you say "fact of the matter is, the big three haven't made anything desirable in a long time." then you should add, "until recently". I don't think you would argue that the G8, Solstice/Sky, new CTS, new Malibu are not desirable cars in their segments.

And lets not turn this into a hue blazing debate.

GM is doing something good for a change. Chrysler and Ford are still trying to figure it out.

[Mtndrifter14]

I liked it lol.

[silviaguy240]

Looks like a vauxhall to me. GM now turns to the australians all the time.

vauxhall is british, opel german, and holden australian. but its all the same anyways.

and mel, the astra isnt selling well because its quite frankly an underpowered, over priced piece of crap. lets look at the target market and some reasons how they failed.

aimed at 18-25 year olds.

- No Ipod or Mp3 support from the factory.
- No XM support
- Tiny interior so you cant reall haul your friends around
- Slow not really that fun to drive

and hell i dont even think it has OnStar. and truthfully, the people who buy the most astras that ive seen, OLD PEOPLE. and that brings me to another point, the controls are rediculous, the radio is complicated and the hvac has to many knobs. you might know i work at a saturn dealer, and had having the astras around for a while, I still dont know how to work the radio properly, not to mention theres like 3 different radios and controls that go in the car.

the overall ergonomics and controls on that car and just randomly thrown in and not thought out very well, and most people dont want to be confused by their car, and want simple one touch access to things and not have to get the manual out everytime they want to do something.

[drift freaq]

[QUOTE=drift freaq;2266395]
long paragraph.[\QUOTE]


please. grow up. my favorite cars growing up were muscle cars. i still desire a firebird/trans am/gto, past, present, and future. there's a reason that american car manufacturers are suffering. do you think it's because everyone in the US has an "import preference" like "i do"? no, it's because for YEARS they designed, produced, and sold PIECES OF SHIT. 85% of materials produced in mexico? get the fuck out of here. i didn't "prefer" to buy an import. my family was (and is) poor. we don't have the money to buy a NEW american car every 3 years. that's why we bought USED japanese cars that don't need to be replaced unless:

a. they explode into flames suddenly
b. it gets wrecked
c. we suddenly become ballin' off the fuckin' chain

the average american consumer replaces their auto every few years, and i think that's why american cars are engineered to be piles of feces in about 3-4 years. do YOU want a 2003 ford taurus? i don't.

i've made NUMEROUS posts supporting american cars on this forum, look it up; i suppose you have time since you can write big ass responses all the time. fact of the matter is, the big three haven't made anything desirable in a long time. shut your fucking mouth if you mention viper, corvette, CTS-V, etc etc. the chevy cruze is supposed to be a car for the masses. ford focus? dodge caliber? or maybe a honda civic? toyota corolla? excitement? no, but if you're in the market for these types of cars (passenger/daily/commuter), you aren't looking for "excitement". it's about quality and reliability. for years, the big three has proved that they aren't capable of making quality OR reliable cars. do i feel bad that the big three is HURTING right now? not really. it's their fault that they're fucked. poor product development, poor economic forecasting, poor everything.

that said, are they making better cars now? yes. but what does that count for after they've lost consumer confidence? they have to convince people that driving an american car isn't a waste of money. GM got smart and go figure, cars that look good and go well are actually what people want. so they brought in cars from europe and australia. awesome. why would that irk me? more choices of cars that i WANT and CAN AFFORD. whatever. i'm at work and i just wasted 15 minutes of project deadline time.



cliff notes: fuck your assumptions.

Grow up? Wow you really show your immaturity here and even show you do exactly the thing your accusing me of. LOL Your whole post sounds like a personal chip on your shoulder. You come out of the gate cussing at me, saying I am assuming stuff. LOL I would directly call you something but you know what?You show it yourself, so I don't have to.

You have proven yourself a economic moron. Fact is the big three used to build and produce totally reliable great cars. Fact is I know they lost that. Fact is I also know they are struggling to try and get that back. Fact is the American Auto workers union among other things really fucked up the American Auto Industry. Fact is Detroit management stuck on what they think is right threw dirt on top of that. Fact is they bet the house on SUV's and pickups. Fact is you may not care about them financially personally but if they went under tomorrow America would be in a world of hurt economically.

Fact is the consumer is biased towards favoring Japanese cars. Its a statistical fact, you insolent little child.
Why? Quality!

Fact is the average American automobile buyer does not replace their car every 3-4 years. In fact they average 5-10 years and usually 7 at the least. Your fucking 21 years old in 2008 you have had exactly 5 years of car driving experience.
You have neither the experience to comment about the American automobile business overall nor the average American automobile owners habits. Unless you have spent the last 3 years of your life studying trends. Which I doubt you have, otherwise you would already know better.

You really need to relax, I wrote a friendly response in my previous post casually suggesting a bias against American cars and you launched into a tirade.



The funniest thing of all about this is your blind assumption that I have just become super champion of the Industry. Wow, reading comprehension fails you big time.

[exitspeed]

vauxhall is british, opel german, and holden australian. but its all the same anyways.

and mel, the astra isnt selling well because its quite frankly an underpowered, over priced piece of crap. lets look at the target market and some reasons how they failed.

aimed at 18-25 year olds.

- No Ipod or Mp3 support from the factory.
- No XM support
- Tiny interior so you cant reall haul your friends around
- Slow not really that fun to drive

and hell i dont even think it has OnStar. and truthfully, the people who buy the most astras that ive seen, OLD PEOPLE. and that brings me to another point, the controls are rediculous, the radio is complicated and the hvac has to many knobs. you might know i work at a saturn dealer, and had having the astras around for a while, I still dont know how to work the radio properly, not to mention theres like 3 different radios and controls that go in the car.

the overall ergonomics and controls on that car and just randomly thrown in and not thought out very well, and most people dont want to be confused by their car, and want simple one touch access to things and not have to get the manual out everytime they want to do something.

Thanks for the insight. I don't claim to know it all, but it is a good platform and a very attractive car. I do think it's overpriced, but that is the price GM pays by selling it here and building it in Belgium. I believe the next gen will be built here in the states which should in theory bring the cost down to be more competitive.

And even though these cars (xB, Cube, Astra, etc) are targeted towards the youth, it's still the older crowd that is going out and buying them in droves.

[Antihero983]

I love how because he's old (and honestly, I know how old he is, and it isn't that old) he has to be so condescending.

Also, I know he'll probably respond to this with some rant about how its not his age but his experience or whatever, but really think he's just "old" and bitter. :keke: :keke:

I'm kidding of course, but it is the internet so we'll see what happens.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

please. grow up. my favorite cars growing up were muscle cars. i still desire a firebird/trans am/gto, past, present, and future. there's a reason that american car manufacturers are suffering. do you think it's because everyone in the US has an "import preference" like "i do"? no, it's because for YEARS they designed, produced, and sold PIECES OF SHIT. 85% of materials produced in mexico? get the fuck out of here. i didn't "prefer" to buy an import. my family was (and is) poor. we don't have the money to buy a NEW american car every 3 years. that's why we bought USED japanese cars that don't need to be replaced unless:

a. they explode into flames suddenly
b. it gets wrecked
c. we suddenly become ballin' off the fuckin' chain

the average american consumer replaces their auto every few years, and i think that's why american cars are engineered to be piles of feces in about 3-4 years. do YOU want a 2003 ford taurus? i don't.

i've made NUMEROUS posts supporting american cars on this forum, look it up; i suppose you have time since you can write big ass responses all the time. fact of the matter is, the big three haven't made anything desirable in a long time. shut your fucking mouth if you mention viper, corvette, CTS-V, etc etc. the chevy cruze is supposed to be a car for the masses. ford focus? dodge caliber? or maybe a honda civic? toyota corolla? excitement? no, but if you're in the market for these types of cars (passenger/daily/commuter), you aren't looking for "excitement". it's about quality and reliability. for years, the big three has proved that they aren't capable of making quality OR reliable cars. do i feel bad that the big three is HURTING right now? not really. it's their fault that they're fucked. poor product development, poor economic forecasting, poor everything.

that said, are they making better cars now? yes. but what does that count for after they've lost consumer confidence? they have to convince people that driving an american car isn't a waste of money. GM got smart and go figure, cars that look good and go well are actually what people want. so they brought in cars from europe and australia. awesome. why would that irk me? more choices of cars that i WANT and CAN AFFORD. whatever. i'm at work and i just wasted 15 minutes of project deadline time.



cliff notes: fuck your assumptions.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b202/phd805/internet_serious_business.jpg

wow. i was not in a good mood when i wrote that. lol. this is a rad thread.

[exitspeed]

Annnnnnnnd, and back op topic...

[SimpleS14]

This thread is getting quite entertaining....

[axiomatik]

People always rag on the reliability of US cars and trucks. But my '97 Expedition with over 150k on the clock is way more reliable than my coupe ever was. In the last 50k miles I've driven the Expedition, the only parts I've had to replace were the rear air springs (which, being rubber, and the fact that the truck spent 7 years in Phoenix, it's remarkable they lasted that long), one ABS sensor, and the front pads and rotors.

By the time my 240 hit 100k, it had needed a new alternator, new starter, new radiator, new bushings, new exhaust, new window regulators for both driver and passenger, driver-side visor broke off, floor mats had holes in them etc etc etc.

on-topic: I hate the name, but the Cruze looks pretty sharp. The styling definitely gives it a more upscale appearance, much more-so than the Cobalt. I am not a fan of how they implemented the grill, I don't like the fact that it cuts into the hood, but overall, nice.

I recently rented a new Ford Focus for a few days. I was pleasantly surprised. It drove quite well, it was comfortable and handled nicely. I averaged 33mpg over the three days. The Microsoft Sync was slick. I didn't have the time to read the owners manual to figure out how to work the voice commands, but I was able to plug my Ipod into the dash and navigate it pretty easily through the stereo. Only problem is that it was butt-ugly. First-gen Focus was definitely much better looking, as is the current euro focus.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

Annnnnnnnd, and back op topic...

i forgot this earlier. wasn't the cobalt already on a global chassis? iirc, there were some opels and vauxhall's on the same chassis?

[exitspeed]

People always rag on the reliability of US cars and trucks. But my '97 Expedition with over 150k on the clock is way more reliable than my coupe ever was. In the last 50k miles I've driven the Expedition, the only parts I've had to replace were the rear air springs (which, being rubber, and the fact that the truck spent 7 years in Phoenix, it's remarkable they lasted that long), one ABS sensor, and the front pads and rotors.

By the time my 240 hit 100k, it had needed a new alternator, new starter, new radiator, new bushings, new exhaust, new window regulators for both driver and passenger, driver-side visor broke off, floor mats had holes in them etc etc etc.

Wait this is impossible! It can't be!

In reality most newer cars are pretty dependable. Even shitty VW's are far more dependable then cars where 20 years ago.

[Matej]

Oh no.

I am so sad.

[drift freaq]

I love how because he's old (and honestly, I know how old he is, and it isn't that old) he has to be so condescending.

Also, I know he'll probably respond to this with some rant about how its not his age but his experience or whatever, but really think he's just "old" and bitter. :keke: :keke:

I'm kidding of course, but it is the internet so we'll see what happens.

Old? maybe but not as old as some people would like to make out. HAHAHHAHA
Condescending? Its usually you punk asses that are condescending and ignorant . You guys are condescending to anyone thats older than you and I could repost numerous posts to show it .
LOL How you do like them Apples sonny boy. LOL

Bitter not in the least. I have always had a sharp tongue and a cynical sense of humor.


Oh and if you really think I am condescending you really just need to learn how to have knowledge when you speak. Its not so much about me be condescending as it is you guys just opening yourself wide with statements that are not researched or have truth.
That may come off condescending to you, but if it does, then you need to realize,its your own mind reacting to the fact that it does indeed not know what it speaks of and fears being exposed. I.E. your ego has been reproached.
Trust me I have been there myself. Life is a learning process and I would not be the first to say I have made mistakes in the past. I try not to, in fact I try not to post without the knowledge behind the post. Though quite often in a debate or argument both sides believe there position regardless.
In the end? Have a nice fucking day. LOL

Oh and the New Cruze does look very European with a dash of Infiniti and a much better interior.
Lets hope GM mechanically can hold up.

[drift freaq]

i forgot this earlier. wasn't the cobalt already on a global chassis? iirc, there were some opels and vauxhall's on the same chassis?

I would not be surprised. Both Opel aka GM Europe and Vauxhall i.e. Holden G.M. Australia have been building cars for years that should have been marketed here if it weren't for the knuckleheadednesss ( is that really a word?) of Detroit management.

[silviaguy240]

Thanks for the insight. I don't claim to know it all, but it is a good platform and a very attractive car. I do think it's overpriced, but that is the price GM pays by selling it here and building it in Belgium. I believe the next gen will be built here in the states which should in theory bring the cost down to be more competitive.

And even though these cars (xB, Cube, Astra, etc) are targeted towards the youth, it's still the older crowd that is going out and buying them in droves.

yea, don't get me wrong, its one of the better looking cars that's out right now and im sure its ging to be pretty reliable, but other than that it really has nothing going for it. im a fairly big guy, about 6' 205lbs broad shoulders and big legs, and its pretty damn uncomfortable for me to drive the thing, my shoulders don't really fit in the seat and it always feels like my nuts are getting squished. the back seat has as much or less space than a 240 and less hatch area than a 240. they got the exterior design good, but it seems they designed the insides for a bunch of skinny ass twig people.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Front end looks sharp, rear end looks like they photo copied the civic sedans rear end...

http://www.autoilluminati.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/001_11chevycruze.jpg

[mehsilvia]

Thx for the update on this Mel.

I find it strange that was just on google looking for the Chevy Astra yesterday, after watching the move "Vantage Point". After the chase scene with that Blue Astra, i wanted one.
Chase scene made alot of Top 10 lists
T-O-P 10 BEST CHASE SCENES EVER CAPTURED ON FILM (http://t-o-p.nl/list/10-best-chase-scenes-ever-captured-on-film/#9) <---site take forever to load

Then again i want an Eleanor every time i watch "Gone in 60 Sec", the Mini after watching "Italian Job" and a BMW after watching "Tranporter". :faint:

I know theres more, but im too depressed to search.



Im gonna keep an eye on this one. Seems like a nice little DD to consider.

[Antihero983]

Old? maybe but not as old as some people would like to make out. HAHAHHAHA
Condescending? Its usually you punk asses that are condescending and ignorant . You guys are condescending to anyone thats older than you and I could repost numerous posts to show it .
LOL How you do like them Apples sonny boy. LOL

Bitter not in the least. I have always had a sharp tongue and a cynical sense of humor.


Oh and if you really think I am condescending you really just need to learn how to have knowledge when you speak. Its not so much about me be condescending as it is you guys just opening yourself wide with statements that are not researched or have truth.
That may come off condescending to you, but if it does, then you need to realize,its your own mind reacting to the fact that it does indeed not know what it speaks of and fears being exposed. I.E. your ego has been reproached.
Trust me I have been there myself. Life is a learning process and I would not be the first to say I have made mistakes in the past. I try not to, in fact I try not to post without the knowledge behind the post. Though quite often in a debate or argument both sides believe there position regardless.
In the end? Have a nice fucking day. LOL

Oh and the New Cruze does look very European with a dash of Infiniti and a much better interior.
Lets hope GM mechanically can hold up.

is it wrong that I posted just to see what he would respond with? :keke:

and you were wrong about the iron butterfly song.....

[WanganRunner]

OMG the interior is better than new mercedese C class!


The new C-class interior is horrendous. The shift knob feels like it cost $2 to make, and what's with that weird sideways manumatic operation?

We test drove one for my wife. Even the base C300 has a great engine, but otherwise the car felt cheap and unfinished. We ended up getting her one of the last 08 TSX's.

I think the Cruze is going to be great, hopefully there's a nice coupe version that, in SS trim, will match the current turbo Cobalt SS's already *very* impressive Nurburgring time. (which was as fast as an R32 GT-R with Motoharu "Gan-San" Kurosawa behind the wheel)

[axiomatik]

back end looks nothing like the civic.

[VROOOM]

back end looks nothing like the civic.

Tail lights remind me of a GS350

[exitspeed]

Look at this interior! That does not look like an economy car interior.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/10/x11ch_cz004.jpg

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/10/x11ch_cz005.jpg

[SoSideways]

Awww....

No trendy pedal shifters?

I like those flappy pedal shifters!!

[DreamN]

omg look at all those buttons! :D

[cdlong]

Awww....

No trendy pedal shifters?

I like those flappy pedal shifters!!

i have a pedal shifter on my motorcycle, i've never heard of one on a car though. i think you're talking about paddle shifters. don't worry, i'm just giving you shit.

on topic, the name change was stupid, but whatever. the interior looks nice, but if you look at the door pulls (the cups, not the chrome handles) it looks a little cheap. but seriously, it's a cheap car, what do you expect. and i'd rather have something functional than pretty. i thought the interior of my s13 was just about perfect. HVAC controls that don't require a manual or even that you look at them, and a stereo than can be swapped for something nicer.

[HalveBlue]

Great thread.

But....

Fact is American car manufacturers suck at marketing their products, have too many models on the market (even to the point that their sub-brands are competing against each other, cannibalizing market shares and unnecessarily driving up production costs), and lag on R&D.

Case in point: the Cobalt SS.

Great car, yet completely undermarketed. And just over 5 years after being introduced it's already being shelved. That makes no sense.

[cdlong]

5 years is about right for a compact car. a little long actually, the civic was redesigned about ever 4 years. Honda Civic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_civic)

[exitspeed]

5 years is about right for a compact car. a little long actually, the civic was redesigned about ever 4 years. Honda Civic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_civic)

I think he was referring to the fact that they are changing the name after just 5 years.

[HalveBlue]

I think he was referring to the fact that they are changing the name after just 5 years.

Bingo!

How can you expect to develop any sort of brand awareness/loyalty if you kill off the name/platform every few years.

Honda and Toyota did right, with the Civic and Camry for example. Even people that aren't car nuts automatically have awareness when those platforms are mentioned.

Like I said previously, American car manufactures aren't very good at marketing their products; notable exceptions being the Corvette or Mustang, but then those are aimed at entirely different demographics.

[exitspeed]

Bingo!

How can you expect to develop any sort of brand awareness/loyalty if you kill off the name/platform every few years.

Honda and Toyota did right, with the Civic and Camry for example. Even people that aren't car nuts automatically have awareness when those platforms are mentioned.

Like I said previously, American car manufactures aren't very good at marketing their products; notable exceptions being the Corvette or Mustang, but then those are aimed at entirely different demographics.

It's odd too because some names should have been killed off, ie Monte Carlo. But then when you actually have a good car that is selling well (Cobalt), you kill the name after only one iteration? DUMB!

But there is a reason. It's because the Cruze is going to be a GLOBAL car now. So it's a fresh global start for the brand.

It's dumb, but I do see the strategy.

[SexPanda]

so basically...

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/08/2010-Chevy-Cruze.jpg>http://www.topnews.in/light/files/Tom-Cruise13.jpg?

[exitspeed]

Since the Cobalt has been brought up in this thread I figured I'd post this here.

GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE!

From Autoblog:

the latest issue of Car and Driver includes a massive comparison test called the Lightning Lap in which 22 cars ranging in price from the $22,995 Cobalt SS to the $282,306 Ferrari 430 Scuderia are raced around Virginia International Raceway. The list of cars slower than the Cobalt SS around VIR tells the whole story:

* Mitsubishi Lancer EVO MR
* Lexus IS-F
* Audi S5
* Honda S2000 CR
* Dodge Challenger SRT-8
* Lotus Elise SC
* Subaru Impreza WRX STI
* Dodge Caliber SRT-4
* Volkswagen R32
* Honda Civic Mugen Si

(Click here for each car's actual lap time at CARandDRIVER.com, look for the "Results Chart" link in the lower-right corner.)


Also regarding the Cruze. Check out the WTCC car that will be running soon.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/10/cruzewtcc09side-450.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/10/cruzewtcc2009.jpg

[stiizy]

Look at this interior! That does not look like an economy car interior.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/10/x11ch_cz004.jpg

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/10/x11ch_cz005.jpg

That's fucking sick!!!

[Antihero983]

Signs the end of the world is nigh....

1.The Az Cardinals have a Winning record
2.Angelina actually getting pregnant instead of adopting for once
3.Chevy actually building a decent damned car that beats * Mitsubishi Lancer EVO MR
* Lexus IS-F
* Audi S5
* Honda S2000 CR
* Dodge Challenger SRT-8
* Lotus Elise SC
* Subaru Impreza WRX STI
* Dodge Caliber SRT-4
* Volkswagen R32
* Honda Civic Mugen Si

:keke: :keke:

[exitspeed]

Signs the end of the world is nigh....

1.The Az Cardinals have a Winning record
2.Angelina actually getting pregnant instead of adopting for once
3.Chevy actually building a decent damned car that beats * Mitsubishi Lancer EVO MR
* Lexus IS-F
* Audi S5
* Honda S2000 CR
* Dodge Challenger SRT-8
* Lotus Elise SC
* Subaru Impreza WRX STI
* Dodge Caliber SRT-4
* Volkswagen R32
* Honda Civic Mugen Si

:keke: :keke:

It is seriously impressive. I wish it was RWD. Could you imagine how awesome this car would be?