~ 06 EVO 9 or 05 STI ~

[pink godzila]

Hope I can get good answer for people that had or has own a "06 EVO 9 GSR or 05 STI" before.

I want to heard what you guys think about what you own, how your feel about the car and any problem with the car.

PLEASE WE ARE ADULTS SO .. dont give answer like yeah .. STi is faster or EVO is faster..

[YoungGun]

From my experiences with Subaru.

If you plan to daily drive and not mod it go with the Subaru.

If you mod, get the Evo, it will keep you happier in the long run.

[pink godzila]

From my experiences with Subaru.

If you plan to daily drive and not mod it go with the Subaru.

If you mod, get the Evo, it will keep you happier in the long run.


what if no mod EVO?? for long run??

As for mod.. im going with suspension first because handling is what im looking for more then speed.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I test drove both for a couple weeks for a dealership a while back. They're both very enjoyable cars and it really comes down to personal preference. I'm a bigger guy so I liked the STI a bit more because the room but if I were 30 pounds lighter it would be a toss up, honestly. Both are fast. Both can handle pretty well. And both look very aggressive. Also, on both the comfort level is pretty damn good for a 30k car. For me it would just come down to which one you thought looked cooler and would get you more ass. :D

[YoungGun]

From what I understand, dollar for dollar, you'll get more performance with the Evo.

I have no clue on their reliability, hopefully someone will comment on that for you.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

what if no mod EVO?? for long run??

As for mod.. im going with suspension first because handling is what im looking for more then speed.

you also have to remember that the 4g series motors have been developed since the early 80's and have adapted and tweaked into what you see today, so the 4g63 would seem like the more logical choice for reliability. Also the boxter motors seem to granade engines a little bit too often. Another thing to rmember is that Mitsubishi developed branched motors from the 4g series in the Hyundai's and almost perfected the oil cooling in those motors.

[OptionZero]

actually from what i've seen the EVO actually has far more room, at least in the back seat area

sti rears were very uncomfortable
EVO fits 3 easily enough

looks are subjective, but i prefer the evo

[lflkajfj12123]

yeah i had an article on this

they said go with the sti

because they feel its a little more tossable than the evo and it was like 2 thousand less

evo has rev limiter for launch and some other weird things

and plus 05 sti should be cheaper than an 06 evo anyways

[lflkajfj12123]

actually from what i've seen the EVO actually has far more room, at least in the back seat area

sti rears were very uncomfortable
EVO fits 3 easily enough

looks are subjective, but i prefer the evo

and yeah despite what i said i didnt agree with the article because the evo looks so sexy

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

actually from what i've seen the EVO actually has far more room, at least in the back seat area

sti rears were very uncomfortable
EVO fits 3 easily enough

looks are subjective, but i prefer the evo

yes but I, being a sloppy hillbilly fat fuck, get stizzed in the biz by the Recaros. I didn't get a SPG XL because it looks cool.

[pink godzila]

I test drove both for a couple weeks for a dealership a while back. They're both very enjoyable cars and it really comes down to personal preference. I'm a bigger guy so I liked the STI a bit more because the room but if I were 30 pounds lighter it would be a toss up, honestly. Both are fast. Both can handle pretty well. And both look very aggressive. Also, on both the comfort level is pretty damn good for a 30k car. For me it would just come down to which one you thought looked cooler and would get you more ass. :D


Yeah test drove it too.. both are good/fast/handle car!! into a corner and out are just damn good I said different style than 240sx.

But I heard that EVO has weaker transmission!! (not sure they talking about the MR with 6sp or all EVO dose) but I really find out if this is true.

By the way, why not 06 STi.. because I not going to purchase from the dealer so no warrenty on me = = and I searched on fourms, alot of people saying that the 06 STi has problem on the intercooler and Motor/tranny mount so most dealer replace them to 05 parts (if you under their warrenty)

[YoungGun]

Yeah in the looks department.

Evo > STi.

Any years, the evo looks way more agressive/cool.

[pink godzila]

you also have to remember that the 4g series motors have been developed since the early 80's and have adapted and tweaked into what you see today, so the 4g63 would seem like the more logical choice for reliability. Also the boxter motors seem to granade engines a little bit too often. Another thing to rmember is that Mitsubishi developed branched motors from the 4g series in the Hyundai's and almost perfected the oil cooling in those motors.


Tell me more about the 4g motor!! so the 4g63 is in the EVO 9??

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Yeah test drove it too.. both are good/fast/handle car!! into a corner and out are just damn good I said different style than 240sx.

But I heard that EVO has weaker transmission!! (not sure they talking about the MR with 6sp or all EVO dose) but I really find out if this is true.

By the way, why not 06 STi.. because I not going to purchase from the dealer so no warrenty on me = = and I searched on fourms, alot of people saying that the 06 STi has problem on the intercooler and Motor/tranny mount so most dealer replace them to 05 parts (if you under their warrenty)

this is a rumor started by ricer boys who are use to launching FWD's. Launch too hard on a AWD and bad things happen to the driveline. A quick not though is that the Evo clutches are a bit weaker than the STi's, but no big deal if you dirve smart.

[Omarius Maximus]

Evo 9 hands down. You'll never need a big turbo, because it comes stock with a really big freaking turbo. Bolt ons and a cam and it'll run away from everything. It's also easier to work on, turbo/mani is right in your face, the inline 4 setup is worlds simpler than the boxer. The seats are much nicer, they actually do a good job of holding you....STI seats are garbage(made for fat people)...might as well be a crown vic bench seat. The evo is sharper handler as well...I can go on and on..

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Tell me more about the 4g motor!! so the 4g63 is in the EVO 9??

the 4g63 is the same motor in the turbo Eclipses from the late 80's on up. Mitsu found their flagship a long time ago.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Evo 9 hands down. You'll never need a big turbo, because it comes stock with a really big freaking turbo. Bolt ons and a cam and it'll run away from everything. It's also easier to work on, turbo/mani is right in your face, the inline 4 setup is worlds simpler than the boxer. The seats are much nicer, they actually do a good job of holding you....STI seats are garbage(made for fat people)...might as well be a crown vic bench seat. The evo is sharper handler as well...I can go on and on..

So do the STi's though. A cheap upgrade on the Evo though is to use the evo 5.5's turbo. It's slightly bigger than the current motor.

[pink godzila]

this is a rumor started by ricer boys who are use to launching FWD's. Launch too hard on a AWD and bad things happen to the driveline. A quick not though is that the Evo clutches are a bit weaker than the STi's, but no big deal if you dirve smart.

Ture Ture!!

[pink godzila]

Thanks for all the commands!!!!!!

This is going to my DD from Irvine to Glendora.. so as for now Im going with the EVO 9

Sigh... hope I can keep my s13 and SR it but fuck cops!!! I dont want a refs ticket so.. sigh..

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Another thing is too is that the STi uses the 2.5l block most recently found on the 2.5rs, which were what? 10 years ago? They weren't that strong but they redeveloped the heads and used the WRX 2l base. Turboing the RS feels NOTHING like the current STi thanks to the head. Made a huge differece in the performance.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Thanks for all the commands!!!!!!

This is going to my DD from Irvine to Glendora.. so as for now Im going with the EVO 9

Sigh... hope I can keep my s13 and SR it but fuck cops!!! I dont want a refs ticket so.. sigh..

track the sr and make the evo comfty!!!!!! touchscreen dvd.....nice audio......nice aero kit....VIP stance...etc. watch yourself on the performance mods though because cops are targeting evos/sti's as much as they're targeting 240's and civics.

[pink godzila]

track the sr and make the evo comfty!!!!!! touchscreen dvd.....nice audio......nice aero kit....VIP stance...etc. watch yourself on the performance mods though because cops are targeting evos/sti's as much as they're targeting 240's and civics.


YEAH I wish I have that money... plus my dad will make me sell the s13 before or after I get the EVO, or either keep the s13 (KA = = sigh) as for DD or sell the S13 and upgrade to EVO for DD.

For the EVO, im sure im going with the Suspension 1st!!!! er... i dont care about the touchscreen or nice audio becuase I dont really listen to anything when I driving.

*dont care about gas money, we just have to get used to it im sure gas price not going to come down to 3 again!! so just get use to it.

[blitzkrgCT9A]

go with EVO IX.

you can easily get over 300awhp (baseline is about 212awhp to 220awhp on my awd dyno dynamics) with simple bolt ons (full tbe, fuel pump, injectors and intake) w/ a flash.

EVO VIII/IX GSR 5spd transmission is more stout than MR's 6spd, and they are better than Subaru's 5spd or 6spd in comparsion.

If you want more info, pm me. I work on these cars (EVO, WRX and STi) on daily basis.

[ronmcdon]

I had a 06 STI for almost 2 yrs. back then I wanted a 'nice' car that I could take friends/girls out, was comfortable (at least according to my standards), and didn't need to mod to be a capable performer at hpde's and autoX's.

While I think the evo was more fun to drive, it was just a bit too harsh as a nice car. (likewise, I felt the 3-series/G35 was too soft), didn't have decent materials/paint quality, seemed a bit too econobox for a 'nicer' car, GSR model was a bit too noisy cruising at 75 @ 5th. GSR did not have a 6spd, and I didn't think the MR was worth the 6k premium over the GSR, nor the 4k over the STi. Mitsu also did not have the reputation for safety and reliability as Subaru.

Aesthetically, i also liked the look of the pignose STi over the EVO 9. STi just seemed more distinctive and aggressive to me. I also loved the boxer exhaust note (probably the single thing I miss the most). I thought the EVO 9 was actually more handsome exterior wise, but to me the look was a little too subtle. I wanted something that looked more aggressive, and slightly obnoxious (love the STi's wing and gold brembos). imho, the STi seemed to fit this description a little more-so than the EVO 9. But, till this day I kinda regret not getting a rally red evo gsr 9. such a great looking car the 9 is. I was kinda bummed out they did not offer rally red for the evo x.

What I didn't like most about the STi was overall lack of feedback. Steering was way too light, shifter felt very vague, and seats were too big. It was just not confidence inspiring to me to push hard. light steering made car boring to drive if not pushed hard. While I always respected my STi, I never loved the car either. I had no trouble keeping it under 10k for the 2yrs or so that I owned it.

Earlier this yr, I traded in my STi for an evo gsr X. other than shit paint quality, loud cruising speed b/c lack of a 6spd tranny, my current evo is more of less just as comfy as my old STi, but with much better feedback overall (best steering imo, good shifter, awesome seats, excellent clutch feel), better driving dynamics (much less body roll, understeer, easier to predict transfer of torque to rear). EVO feels slower in the straight, but I don't care about that too much. Its a car I enjoy driving fast or slow. This car I've been having trouble driving less than 1500 mi every month, even though I have my 240 and a daily fa civic si. I really love my evo. to me, it is the best of the prior STI and evo 9. I have also been very happy with the way it performs at hpdes and autoX's. quickest Streets of Willow time I got so far was 1:31:9x doing CCW. On my prior STi, I did 1:35:1x best time. while its not scientific at all to say that the EVO X may be faster than the STi based on my track times alone, I will say that I feel much more comfortable pushing the evo harder. it gives me much more confidence. both cars are stock. really need to take my 240 out there.

But yeah, if you want a car that gives more feedback, fun to drive, and is easier to push hard I say pick the EVO. If you want something more of a gentle-man's car, the STi might be more appropriate. The coveted STi limited edition (blk leather interior, small lip rear wing, blk brembos, sunroof, etc) might serve this purpose better than the regular STI though. As for the EVO 9, I still think the GSR is the best deal around. RS models are next to impossible to find.

Pardon the long rant, but I just love evos & STi's!!! You can't really go wrong with either choice :D

[sxe]

well. in my opinion, im much more of a Subaru fan. i had an evo. i know ur looking at feedback and reviews. but its completely up to you. the evo is harsh for any semi long drive. going from san diego to parker or havesu was HELL on wheels, its a very responsive car all around. as a weekend warrior is choose evo. but dailey drive an sti NO doubt..

[ronmcdon]

lol, someone just gave me posi rep and called my civic gay. I don't take offense, as I know that isn't for everyone, but still bit eerie and random. thanks! :)

but seriously, the si is great daily driver for me at least. It's balanced enough that I find it fun to drive. keeps me out of trouble, gets good mileage, and is comfy enough. it's nowhere near the performance level of a said STi/EVO, but speaking for myself, I know I would lose my license very fast ( regrettably got 3 speeding tickets the yr I got my STi) and pay more than the car payment itself in gas alone per month. As much as I like the EVO/STi, I would dread using either as a daily.

[pink godzila]

lol, someone just gave me posi rep and called my civic gay. I don't take offense, as I know that isn't for everyone, but still bit eerie and random. thanks! :)

but seriously, the si is great daily driver for me at least. It's balanced enough that I find it fun to drive. keeps me out of trouble, gets good mileage, and is comfy enough. it's nowhere near the performance level of a said STi/EVO, but speaking for myself, I know I would lose my license very fast ( regrettably got 3 speeding tickets the yr I got my STi) and pay more than the car payment itself in gas alone per month. As much as I like the EVO/STi, I would dread using either as a daily.


If I have the money for sure I would keep my 240sx, and garage my EVO and get a gas saver out there as Civic Si... I think as we all car people why we hate each other (Honda vs Nissan).. you know.. :bigok:

[miucus]

i use to DD a stock EVO 9 MR for 6+ months. no problems what so ever. very reliable. but i do however like the feel of my brothers EVO 8 gsr 5 speed transmission much better than my 6 speed.

[Bubbles]

PLEASE WE ARE ADULTS SO



Ha ha.



Not likely.

[g6civcx]

Hope I can get good answer for people that had or has own a "06 EVO 9 GSR or 05 STI" before.

I had a 04 Evo RS and an 04 STi. They are not a 06 GSR or 05 STi. Would my opinion be valid? There are very small differences between what you ask for and what I had. Most of the knowledge will apply across model years.

I want to heard what you guys think about what you own, how your feel about the car and any problem with the car.


Asthetics is up to you so make up your own decision.


Handling wise the Evo is better out of the box. Steering response is faster but the suspension is a little sloppy. The STi handling is a little heavier and is not as intuitive.

Power wise the STi rules. Throttle response is superior with the 2.5. Even a stroked 4G63 doesn't boost as quickly as the STi.

Controls, the STi wins by a nudge. The Evo clutch, brake, and shifter feel a little mechanical, like a beefed up economy car with a little slop, whereas the STi feel a little more solid, more like a rally car.

PLEASE WE ARE ADULTS SO .. dont give answer like yeah .. STi is faster or EVO is faster..

In autocross and tight roadcourses, I am faster in the Evo. It's just ninja at chopping tight turns. The STi requires more work at lower speeds.

At medium to longer roadcourses, I am faster in the STi because it can stretch its leg more with the bigger motor. I don't feel as stable in the Evo at higher speeds because the suspension feels more fidgety to me. The STi is heavier = more stable at high speed.


Mods wise, the STi is superior. The Evo is really a pain to work on and not as simple as the packaging on the STi.

I used to despise working on the STi, but I've grown more and more fond of the Subie after seeing how difficult it is to do some stuff on the Evo.

[Erjay1]

Subby sounds better and.....uhhh....thats it.

I pick an Evo 9. Looks better, drives better, stronger motor and higher potential. My buddies Evo 9 with bolt-on's, cams and a tune is putting down what Subbies with turbo upgrades put down.

I sure hope you've already priced out insurance on both of these cars. Its expensive.

[stiizy]

I DD an 05 Sti mine is okay but i have run into tranny problems now so i havent driven it in months...

Had an Evo 8 also liked both but the suby does more for me than the evo..

[dynamicck]

I think the EVO is easier to mod, and the STI is perfect stock (or minor bolt ons)
Its easy to access the manifold, turbo, injectors, spark plugs, on an EVO, but the STI is a b*tch (actually the turbo is not that bad, everything else sucks)

I think the STI is pretty comfortable, nicer interior, gauge display/layout, and feels more luxurious.
The EVO is just a buff ass motor with Lancer body and dope wheel fitment. STI has ghey fitment.

[g6civcx]

I think the EVO is easier to mod, and the STI is perfect stock (or minor bolt ons)
Its easy to access the manifold, turbo, injectors, spark plugs, on an EVO, but the STI is a b*tch (actually the turbo is not that bad, everything else sucks)


That's what I thought at first, but after spending some time digging deeper into both cars, I found that the Evo has really tight packaging. The STi is a cleaner and smaller package, and the newer ones are easier to work on the the old ones. It's like Subaru is learning how to make things more user friendly.

Once you get past the basic stuff, the STi is less intuitive, but once you've figured it out, it becomes easy. The Evo has a more traditional tranverse FWD engine layout which may look inviting at first, but once you start opening it up it becomes complicated quickly.

Evo 9... stronger motor and higher potential. My buddies Evo 9 with bolt-on's, cams and a tune is putting down what Subbies with turbo upgrades put down.

I am not sure about this. The Evo can crank out more numbers on the dyno, but I personally do not feel comfortable pushing the 4g drivetrain pass 400-450 whp on a stock bottom end.

I would feel comfortable DDing a 500whp STi without a rebuild.

That's just my personal experience.

[Daniel.]

from an evo owner who's driven a few nicely modded sti's, get the evo.

:)

it really does come down to personal preference though. drive both. modded and stock, and make your own decision.

[blitzkrgCT9A]

I am running over 500whp on stock bottom end..

However, I've yet to see any 400whp STi on stock bottom end, whether its on our dyno or GST's dyno.

4g63 - cast iron block

ej25 - aluminum block

go figure

[stiizy]

^^ I put down 488 on a stock block.....

Was good to me for like a year and a half ...

[blitzkrgCT9A]

haha damn.. that sucks..

what kind of dyno was it?

[stiizy]

Mustang Dyno...

I stay clear of the fake number Dyno Jets haha

[Daniel.]

I am running over 500whp on stock bottom end..

However, I've yet to see any 400whp STi on stock bottom end, whether its on our dyno or GST's dyno.

4g63 - cast iron block

ej25 - aluminum block

go figure

i still can't figure out if you're devin, andy or cal. lol


i havn't met enough of you guys to know. :(

if you're not cal, then tell him to answer my pm on nce! i want to buy partzzzzzzzz

[s13poop]

STI has ghey fitment.

i beg to differ

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/awong0707/IMG_3565.jpg

[YoungGun]

i beg to differ


Wow, you never see that here, always sunken battleship status on Subies.

I see a lot of flush evo's though, plus they can get the gtr face wheels.

[stiizy]

i've seen some Evo guys do reverse staggered

[Daniel.]

i beg to differ


I see your scooby, and raise you...

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6092/jay1zc4.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4388/jay2dl1.jpg

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/738/jay3gs1.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k159/MadEvo/Evo%20Jai/IMG_3151.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k159/MadEvo/Evo%20Jai/IMG_3158.jpg

The green TE's are hardly even flush. Lets see an STI pull off that size on stock body. wewt.

[g6civcx]

I personally believe that you can't get to know a car until you've put at least 10k miles on the street and/or 40-50 hours on the roadcourse.

Having owned both, I generally choose the Evo for daily (more ninja fun for the commute) and the STi for roadtrips (shiz is more comfy at high speeds).

Although I've driven the Evo 300-400 miles a day before and it feels ok.

[s13poop]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g35/excelzx3/Subaru/seventy.jpg

[stiizy]

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s332/mikelce2722/DSCF4729.jpg

Wagon!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/drksecretl0ve/CAR/IMG_0002.jpg

[g6civcx]

Please pause the penis-measuring contest and answer this question for me:

These cars already have a lot of traction. Why do you need bigger wheels?


You may resume the measuring...

[s13poop]

preference

[Daniel.]

That wagon is pretty gangsta. Are those Enkei's or Emo kai's? I can't really tell. *shrug*

Please pause the penis-measuring contest and answer this question for me:

These cars already have a lot of traction. Why do you need bigger wheels?


You may resume the measuring...

To fit wider tires. I'm running a 17x9.5 +25

I seem to break traction on my 255's pretty consistently. I even broke traction a few times on the stock Advans. I either need to upgrade to a stickier compound, or increase section width some more.

Btw this is street driving on street tires. ( rt-615's in 255/40/17 )

[stiizy]

Emo Kais

And We do it for looks and better traction

[DohcKA]

evo over sti all day since day one....

[g6civcx]

To fit wider tires. I'm running a 17x9.5 +25

I seem to break traction on my 255's pretty consistently. I even broke traction a few times on the stock Advans. I either need to upgrade to a stickier compound, or increase section width some more.

Btw this is street driving on street tires. ( rt-615's in 255/40/17 )

If you're drag racing then I'd understand.

I don't know. Maybe you guys are better drivers or smarter than me. I just think that since I can tripod on the stock Advans, I would need more suspension than more tread width.

The few times I've spun the Evo I knew I was doing something majorly stupid.

[Daniel.]

If you're drag racing then I'd understand.

I don't know. Maybe you guys are better drivers or smarter than me. I just think that since I can tripod on the stock Advans, I would need more suspension than more tread width.

The few times I've spun the Evo I knew I was doing something majorly stupid.

I havn't spun the car yet, but I've definitely reached tire traction limits on a number of occasions.

The Rt-615's in 255's seem to have similar traction limits to the stock advans in 235's.

I have to admit, my wheel choice was mainly for looks. It's just an added bonus that I can run up to about a 265 or 275 with minimal fender work. (I've already had to roll the fenders to fit my current setup.)

[dolphin]

(made for fat people)...

i hope thats a joke.....

[Daniel.]

i hope thats a joke.....

Sit in an evo recaro and you'll feel the same way.

[idahotuner]

i drove an sti and loved it. was n 05 sti. i now i want to drive an EVo and see how it handles. compared. I dont like how the evo engine sits sideways i nthe bay thought i wish it wasa true FR layout instead ofa transversal

[dolphin]

it all does come down to personal prefrence... i test drive a evo and sti i like both... yeah sti got a grip load of problems with tranny and the weak axles... but it still an awsome car... sti modded and evo modded.. put them on the track i bet they'll be neck and neck and it will all come down to the driver...

but anyways back on topic... if your dailying this beast both cars wouldn't matter.. my friend daily his evo since 04 or 05 till this day its fine.... me and my sister daily her sti for 3 years only problem was the clutch went out.... due to my sister reving really high just to take off from the light slowly..... the sti is fun to daily also both cars get good attention and stunning i hated teh sti because of the seats..... but other than the sti was a good dailiy for me i like the space and the drive!

so sti for me.!

[idahotuner]

oh and the evo is UGLY spoilerless were the STI still looks good with out it

[g6civcx]

oh and the evo is UGLY spoilerless were the STI still looks good with out it

what you say?

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~tnn3g/storage/evo/back.jpg

Oh, never mind... :-/

[stiizy]

http://photologue.dgoreck.org/albums/album64/ILLDON8_7_1.jpg


Nuff said!!

[blitzkrgCT9A]

nahh

EVO > STi ;)

old pix of my RS
http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/images/blitzkrg/Picture_001.jpg
http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/images/blitzkrg/Picture_002.jpg
http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/images/blitzkrg/Picture_004.jpg
http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/images/blitzkrg/Picture_006.jpg
http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/images/blitzkrg/Picture_008.jpg

my buddy Alvin's
http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/images/blitzkrg/alvin_blkevo1.jpg

http://www.speedelement.com/images/enkei/varis_rct4_1.jpg
http://www.speedelement.com/images/enkei/varis_rct4_4.jpg
http://www.speedelement.com/images/enkei/varis_rct4_2.jpg
http://www.speedelement.com/images/enkei/varis_rct4_3.jpg

[g6civcx]

Limited yo.

http://media.automotive.com/evox/stilllib/subaru/impreza/2007/4sa-4/37.jpg

[adictd2b00st]

After working at a shop that regularly worked on both of these cars..... flat out for the $ the EVO is the better performance option, but as a daily i'd take the Subaru any day. the STI is just built better imho, and isn't exactly "slow" either. But if you plan on modding it, your going to see greater returns with the EVO.

[dynamicck]

Those subies have some nice offsets.
But I still think EVO>STI in offset.

anyway...either is capable of DD 400awhp (stockblock) FTW!
The argument is endless. Almost like Chevy/Ford. *yawn*

[g6civcx]

My S13 is still faster than stock Evos and STis in every category except for possibly the slalom.

Can't beat the AWD for transitioning at speed.


Screw them. Mod your 240 :)