Intercooler for a NA engine

[RedlineRacer]

This will probably sound like another one of my dumb questions. But, how does a intercooler give a hp gain to a naturally aspirated engine? I've been playing Gran Turismo 3 alot and I noticed it gave like a 20 hp gain to do this. How does it give a gain without a turbo?

[jOeHaCk98]

that is just a game. An intercooler cools down the warm turbocharged air.

[itslogics]

um......hmm.......heh:confused:

[Outlaw240]

But dood...what about this??? Aint this a intercooler??? :D :D

http://www.speedstash.com/images/frontmountcar.jpg

[jOeHaCk98]

Originally posted by Outlaw240
But dood...what about this??? Aint this a intercooler??? :D :D

http://www.speedstash.com/images/frontmountcar.jpg



that is an intake that looks like an IC, nothing more.

[Outlaw240]

Originally posted by jOeHaCk98
that is an intake that looks like an IC, nothing more.


ummm....duh? note the smileys.... :rolleyes:

http://www.sunflower.com/~outlaw/CarStuff/DSCN0090a.JPG


That is an intercooler... :p

[Got Sileighty?]

redline.....in the gt games, u can only buy an intercooler if you already have a turbo-ed car to begin with. otherwise, its unavailable.

[jOeHaCk98]

yea, i knew that. I was letting the guy that wants an IC for his NA car know that.

[negular]

Throw and ice-chest full of ice in the backseat... get it? inter-cooler... :D sorry bad joke... :rolleyes:

[underdog17]

hey outlaw could you post a bigger and darker photo so we can get a better look at that i/c? :rolleyes: :p

[itslogics]

that is a very large picture!!:D

[RedlineRacer]

Got Sileighty?, thats what I thought too, but I bought a S2000 (or Altezza, I think, I know it wasn't stock with a turbo) and I could buy a intercooler for it and it didn't have a turbo.

[DamnedButDetermined]

To answer your original question, you can make more horsepower by adding an intercooler. It will cool down the intake charge, allowing for a more powerful burn. It will also save your ass if you have your timming way advanced and running high compression pistons. But in the second case the itercooler isn't creating more power it is just preventing detination (sp?)

DbD

[sykikchimp]

Are you really trying to say that the Fake intercooler is helping the N/A motor?????? (that has to be sarcasm...)

[bbp]

just to throw some sh!t into the mix....

i have seen some of the good ol boys pack dry ice around their carbs to go drag racing. It will cool down the incomng air and..... you know what i mean.... but again, they were some good ol boys...

[240racer]

you could run a nitrous cooled intercooler on a NA and it would lower intake temps.
I would just squirt the nitrous in the engine, but it's a recent fad to cool intercoolers with nitrous (on the outside) Look at the car Paul Walker is driving in F&F2 it has a nitrous cooler

[jOeHaCk98]

Originally posted by 240racer
you could run a nitrous cooled intercooler on a NA and it would lower intake temps.
I would just squirt the nitrous in the engine, but it's a recent fad to cool intercoolers with nitrous (on the outside) Look at the car Paul Walker is driving in F&F2 it has a nitrous cooler



Its not a fad to do it. They have been doing it for some time. It cools the intake air to lower temps yielding nice Hp. On High HP machines I have seen 60+ HP gains to the wheels.



Also- The Altezza (IS300 in the USA) is turbo charged from the factory. You dont run an IC on an NA car, think of it. You are using the same temp. air to cool itself? results in no cooling.



Ricer products have made CAI to look like FMIC. weak.

[SilviaDriver]

Originally posted by jOeHaCk98
Its not a fad to do it. They have been doing it for some time.

yea its been around for sometime for pro drivers, but i agree with 240racer, you see people with Nitrous after FnF...and now that people have heard about the nitrous cooler for the ICs, you see it all over the place, i know i do

[AKADriver]

Originally posted by jOeHaCk98
Also- The Altezza (IS300 in the USA) is turbo charged from the factory. You dont run an IC on an NA car, think of it. You are using the same temp. air to cool itself? results in no cooling.

You've got the concepts right, but the Altezza is non-turbo... the Altezza AS200 has the 1G-FE, 2.0 I6 NA, 160hp. The Altezza RS200 has the 3S-GE, 2.0 I4 NA with dual VVTi, 210hp.

toyota.co.jp Altezza "mechanism" site (http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/Altezza/mechanism/index.html)

[240fluke]

Hey Outlaw, that is a pretty sweet looking front bumper. What kind of bumper is that? Where did you get it from? Is it fiberglass or urethane (or something similar)?

Tim '95 SE

[mrdirty]

not to get all geeky here but an intercooler will do NOTHING but waste power on a non-turbo car, see if the charge is not compressed it won't heat up and if it's the same temp as ambient air it won't loose any heat. All you're doing is loosing power in the form of friction.

N/A intercooler = complete and utter waste of money.

[Bbandit]

Originally posted by Outlaw240
But dood...what about this??? Aint this a intercooler??? :D :D

http://www.speedstash.com/images/frontmountcar.jpg

LMAO!!! :D
thats a good one outlaw240! :D
that thing looks ugly...
i'd rather go with injen/aem cold air intake if i drive a honda

[Outlaw240]

Originally posted by 240fluke
Hey Outlaw, that is a pretty sweet looking front bumper. What kind of bumper is that? Where did you get it from? Is it fiberglass or urethane (or something similar)?

Tim '95 SE


Bumper is Nismo (style)...I know, I know, I shoulda bought actual name brand...or something, but I knew with my ride hieght as low as it is...I would probably hit something....and look at it now....it has found a jack rabbit and a possum already....good reasoning for it still being primer grey...lol. ANd nothing blows up quite like fiberglass....lol. got it from some guys in Canada...cant recall name right now...I think the bumper was just under $200...so when it breaks...not too bad to replace...


And yup...kinda large pic...but kinda big I/C too....lol :D

[tnord]

an intercooler isn't useful in NA application for a couple of reasons. first of all, your throttle response would suck ass because of the extra distance the air has to travel. secondly, you can't really cool air past ambiant temperatures. unless you use ice and whatnot, which some people do sell "icebox" intakes, which supposedly do work. anyway, CAI's get about as close to ambiant temperatures as possible and still be useful, so an intercooler really doesn't do much good for NA. they work great on turbo apps because the intake air has to pass through the turbo, which can be INSANELY hot.

[DamnedButDetermined]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
Are you really trying to say that the Fake intercooler is helping the N/A motor?????? (that has to be sarcasm...)

I was not being sarcastic...I was just answering the question to the best of my knowledge.


not to get all geeky here but an intercooler will do NOTHING but waste power on a non-turbo car, see if the charge is not compressed it won't heat up and if it's the same temp as ambient air it won't loose any heat. All you're doing is loosing power in the form of friction.

Please explain what you mean by lossing power due to friction....seeing as how the air under the hood is going to be warmer than ambient temp, and the fact that air will be racing through the intercooler, means that an intercooler will do something for a N/A engine. I am not saying it will do alot, but it will cool the intake charge. My concept is simple. If it is fifty degrees outside and their is no wind, it feels like it is fifty degrees! If it is fifty degrees outside, and there is a breeze blowing at say 60mph, it feels as though it is 30degrees outside. You see the metal, will begin to get extremely cold, and so the intake charge passing through the intercooler will be cooled by either convection or the other con... word (sorry it has been a while since i was in science class)

an intercooler isn't useful in NA application for a couple of reasons. first of all, your throttle response would suck ass because of the extra distance the air has to travel. secondly, you can't really cool air past ambiant temperatures. unless you use ice and whatnot, which some people do sell "icebox" intakes, which supposedly do work. anyway, CAI's get about as close to ambiant temperatures as possible and still be useful, so an intercooler really doesn't do much good for NA. they work great on turbo apps because the intake air has to pass through the turbo, which can be INSANELY hot.

I explained the first part already, but you are completely right about the throttle responce sucking big balls!

DbD

[tnord]

that whole wind theory only works when there is moisture present (such as on your skin). metal doesn't sweat (unless you spray water on it), so you still really can't cool things past ambiant temperatures. once again, making an intercooler for NA basically counterproductive.

i've said it before and i'll say it again. this isn't a new idea, so if it worked, racers would do it. but it doesn't, so they don't.

[mrdirty]

Originally posted by DamnedButDetermined
Please explain what you mean by lossing power due to friction....seeing as how the air under the hood is going to be warmer than ambient temp, and the fact that air will be racing through the intercooler, means that an intercooler will do something for a N/A engine. I am not saying it will do alot, but it will cool the intake charge. My concept is simple. If it is fifty degrees outside and their is no wind, it feels like it is fifty degrees! If it is fifty degrees outside, and there is a breeze blowing at say 60mph, it feels as though it is 30degrees outside. You see the metal, will begin to get extremely cold, and so the intake charge passing through the intercooler will be cooled by either convection or the other con... word (sorry it has been a while since i was in science class)
DbD

Splitting the intake stream into several channels creates turbulent air. Turbulent air has considerable energy losses in the form of internal friction, surface friction w/ wall of tubing also causes losses.

When an object is at higher temp then ambient, it will radiate heat and set up a temperature gradient around it or surface boundary (progressively changing temp). Wind chill is caused by wind stripping away the surface boundary of warm air around an object of higher temp, no cooling will take place w/ out a difference in temp between the two regions....period. If It we're 98 deg outside the winds could be hurricane velocity and still not cool you.

You're right about the air in the engine bay being hotter, but the energy losses due to friction would more then compensate for this slight temp change; and more importantly, if you could get a N/A intercooler to an area of cooler air, you better off just cutting it off and taking the air charge directly from there.

therefore N/A intercooler = waste of money.

[DamnedButDetermined]

Good explainations!!! I wasn't thinking about those factors. Topic is now officially settled:D