Teach me grammar

[g6civcx]

I am not a native English speaker. Therefore I don't fully understand American grammar.

Does anybody want to teach me something about grammar? Anything?

I keep seeing things that don't really make sense to me, and since I never had proper grammar classes, I really want to know.

Like this one for example:

Tskhinvali, the capital of the separatist Georgian province of South Ossetia, lay in smoldering ruins Sunday after three days of fighting between Georgian troops and Russian forces.

Is that the correct form to use? What's the difference between "lay" and "lie"?

I know most of you = :gives:, but I'm really confused :(

[SW20Racer]

dude, to be honest its the little words like "lay" and "lie" that i dont even concern myself with anymore.

"im going to go lay down"

"im going to go lie down"

i dont know which one is "right". they both sound good to me.


supposedly, english is the hardest language to learn because we have butchered our shit up beyond recognition.

FUBAR!

[demonspeed]

lay means to put or place in a horizontal position or position of rest or to set down or to dispose or place in proper position or in an orderly fashion.

Lie means your not telling the truth

[koukimonster139]

wtf are you talking about


99% of your posts are grammatically correct

[MikeisNissan]

what he said ^

[demonspeed]

wtf are you talking about


99% of your posts are grammatically correct

i think hes talking about the difference between lay and lie

[DOOK]

i think hes talking about the difference between lay and lie

and I don't think he was asking about the definition of the words specifically either... getting into this subject you're starting to talk about the tense usage of different words, where among english scholars you will have difference in opinion.

I agree about your posts being grammatically correct though, probably more so than most of us who are native speakers. Don't worry about it unless it's some sort of legal document or something. Different parts of the United States have different regional dialects that change the meaning of individual words and phrases, so it's practically impossible to identify a "correct" way of saying some things over another way.

[MikeisNissan]

He is talking about the English grammar in general.

[demonspeed]

grammatically if your "sleeping" then your gonna want to use the word lay...as in "I'm going to lay down"

you know what? nvm...i just did a google search and I'm all messed up lol! and my mom has a degree in this?! crazy

[g6civcx]

Well, according to Webster:



Main Entry: 1lay
Pronunciation: \ˈlā\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): laid \ˈlād\; lay·ing
Etymology: Middle English leyen, from Old English lecgan; akin to Old English licgan to lie — more at lie
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1: to beat or strike down with force
2 a: to put or set down <lay your books on the table> b: to place for rest or sleep; especially : bury
3: to bring forth and deposit (an egg)
4: calm, allay <lay the dust>
5: bet, wager
6: to press down giving a smooth and even surface
7 a: to dispose or spread over or on a surface <lay track> <lay plaster> b: to set in order or position <lay a table for dinner> <lay brick> c: to put (strands) in place and twist to form a rope, hawser, or cable; also : to make by so doing <lay up rope>
8 a: to impose as a duty, burden, or punishment <lay a tax> b: to put as a burden of reproach <laid the blame on her> c: to advance as an accusation : impute <the disaster was laid to faulty inspection>
9: to place (something immaterial) on something <lay stress on grammar>
10: prepare, contrive <a well-laid plan>
11 a: to bring against or into contact with something : apply <laid the watch to his ear> b: to prepare or position for action or operation <lay a fire in the fireplace>; also : to adjust (a gun) to the proper direction and elevation
12: to bring to a specified condition <lay waste the land>
13 a: assert, allege <lay claim to an estate> b: to submit for examination and judgment <laid her case before the commission>
14often vulgar : to copulate with
intransitive verb
1: to produce and deposit eggs
2nonstandard : 1lie
3: wager, bet
4dialect : plan, prepare
5 a: to apply oneself vigorously <laid to his oars> b: to proceed to a specified place or position on a ship <lay aloft>
— lay an egg : to fail or blunder especially embarrassingly
— lay eyes on : see, behold
— lay into : to attack especially verbally <laid into the referee>
— lay on the table
1: to remove (a parliamentary motion) from consideration indefinitely
2British : to put (as legislation) on the agenda
usage lay has been used intransitively in the sense of “lie” since the 14th century. The practice was unremarked until around 1770; attempts to correct it have been a fixture of schoolbooks ever since. Generations of teachers and critics have succeeded in taming most literary and learned writing, but intransitive lay persists in familiar speech and is a bit more common in general prose than one might suspect. Much of the problem lies in the confusing similarity of the principal parts of the two words. Another influence may be a folk belief that lie is for people and lay is for things. Some commentators are ready to abandon the distinction, suggesting that lay is on the rise socially. But if it does rise to respectability, it is sure to do so slowly: many people have invested effort in learning to keep lie and lay distinct. Remember that even though many people do use lay for lie, others will judge you unfavorably if you do.


wtf are you talking about


99% of your posts are grammatically correct

I don't claim to know anything. I just copy what others do. I have no idea if what I'm posting is correct most of the time :)

Don't worry about it unless it's some sort of legal document or something.

That makes me worry even more :( I write legal briefs for a living :bash:

you know what? nvm...i just did a google search and I'm all messed up lol! and my mom has a degree in this?! crazy

See what I mean? I'm confused as hell :cry:

[drift freaq]

lay means to put or place in a horizontal position or position of rest or to set down or to dispose or place in proper position or in an orderly fashion.

Lie means your not telling the truth
lay is a irregular verb i.e. it describes an action but needs a direct object to describe an action that is being done.

Lie describes an action undertaken by a subject but has no direct object.

For example I lied, or I lie down. Is a action taken but there is no object. Moreover its something done.

the building lay in ruin. is an object and the action is it is no longer standing but in ruin.


Oh I should add lay is quite often used in the past tense vs lie being used in the present tense.

P.S. you scare me. LOL You write legal briefs and you don't even know the language that well. You just copy other people. Seriously get yourself a English tutor and start conjugating those verbs.

[cc4usmc]

I think his post is sarcastic and he's just trying to point out that people's grammar sucks these days... especially for someone who's posting for CNN. I suck when it comes to using proper grammar.. but some people.. wow. that reminds me.. i need to post my "for sell" thread..

[g6civcx]

lay is a irregular verb i.e. it describes an action but needs a direct object to describe an action that is being done.

Lie describes an action undertaken by a subject but has no direct object.

For example I lied, or I lie down. Is a action taken but there is no object. Moreover its something done.

the building lay in ruin. is an object and the action is it is no longer standing but in ruin.

Is that "transitive" vs. "intransitive"?

How do you conjugate "lay" then?

I think his post is sarcastic and he's just trying to point out that people's grammar sucks these days... especially for someone who's posting for CNN. I suck when it comes to using proper grammar.. but some people.. wow. that reminds me.. i need to post my "for sell" thread..

Absolutely not! I would think that a major news source like CNN would have impeccable grammar.

I really don't know what the difference is, unfortunately :(

[MikeisNissan]

You want to grapple with me one day g6civcx?

[g6civcx]

You want to grapple with me one day g6civcx?

How about I let you have top mount and time to see how long it takes you to pull off a submision?

[MikeisNissan]

Hahaha sounds good, but in all seriousness your grammar is on point to me!

[MikeisNissan]

Hey cool 2000^

[drift freaq]

Is that "transitive" vs. "intransitive"?

How do you conjugate "lay" then?



Absolutely not! I would think that a major news source like CNN would have impeccable grammar.

I really don't know what the difference is, unfortunately :(

yes

so for example. I lay my papers on my desk in the evening before I retire.

I laid a hot chick last night. LOL

I will be trying to lay this girl tonite.

I just got laid.

[cc4usmc]

Absolutely not! I would think that a major news source like CNN would have impeccable grammar.

I really don't know what the difference is, unfortunately :(

Well then ignore my post about the CNN thing.. i thought they had in fact used the incorrect word. i dunno.. maybe i need to go back to sleep.

[DOOK]

You want to grapple with me one day g6civcx?

how big are you and what do you study? I may wanna take you up on this offer sometime... always looking to up my game. :fawkd:

[g6civcx]

yes

so for example. I lay my papers on my desk in the evening before I retire.

I laid a hot chick last night. LOL

I will be trying to lay this girl tonite.

I just got laid.

"The building lay in ruins" or "the building lays in ruins"?

Well then ignore my post about the CNN thing.. i thought they had in fact used the incorrect word. i dunno.. maybe i need to go back to sleep.

Do you need to lie/lay down?

[g6civcx]

how big are you and what do you study? I may wanna take you up on this offer sometime... always looking to up my game. :fawkd:

If you all want to train then just train. Why does it matter how big he is?

It's good to train with big guys. They build your strength and technique.

[MikeisNissan]

Hahah where are you on the planet? I am 5'11" 160lbs (but can transition in weight easily) I really try to study most of martial arts .. but I would sum myself up in boxing/muaythai/karate/judo/bjj?

[DOOK]

"The building lay in ruins" or "the building lays in ruins"?


I think it would be... the building LAYS in ruins, for a singular building... the buildings lay in ruins, for plural.... maybe

[MikeisNissan]

Yeah size don't matter for me, I would fight anyone, shit I would fight a bear if my life depended on it.

[DOOK]

If you all want to train then just train. Why does it matter how big he is?

It's good to train with big guys. They build your strength and technique.

I agree, to a certain extent... you won't see me step into the arena with a Brock Lesner sized guy though, unless that arena is at work where I am forced to and in that case, I'm taking limbs out.

Hahah where are you on the planet? I am 5'11" 160lbs (but can transition in weight easily) I really try to study most of martial arts .. but I would sum myself up in boxing/muaythai/karate/judo/bjj?

you're just a tad smaller than I am... BJJ/CIDS here... (CIDS=corrections integrated defense systems... basically just hurting people and taking away the desire to continue)

I have some experience with muaythai and have put a proposition in to get it added to our self defense regiment, but it has gone unanswered as of now. We shall see.

[g6civcx]

I agree, to a certain extent... you won't see me step into the arena with a Brock Lesner sized guy though, unless that arena is at work where I am forced to and in that case, I'm taking limbs out.


Um, are you guys training or are you guys competing?


For competition I definitely agree with weight limits, but for training, I don't understand why anyone would not want to train with people who are bigger/faster/stronger.

I routinely get tossed around by huge guys in training and I thank them for it. When I see a guy my weight, I know I'm pretty much going to dominate him unless he's some sort of super freak with retard strength.

[MikeisNissan]

My goal is to fight pro when I'm around 25..

[DOOK]

Um, are you guys training or are you guys competing?


For competition I definitely agree with weight limits, but for training, I don't understand why anyone would not want to train with people who are bigger/faster/stronger.

I routinely get tossed around by huge guys in training and I thank them for it. When I see a guy my weight, I know I'm pretty much going to dominate him unless he's some sort of super freak with retard strength.

training... only time I'm competing (personally speaking) is if I get into it with an inmate, in which case, size has no restrictions, but then again, I also have no rules. What I am saying is that I'm conditioned that when I have a desparity in size, rules need not apply, I hurt people... just the way it is. I have had times in my job experience where deadly force has been authorized, that's just the nature of the beast. When we do have the time to "train" with one another, we generally match up with whoever we want, and generally I match up with another Special Ops guy or two of our CIDS instructors, who are both slightly larger than I am.

[DOOK]

ok, that sounded bad... we do have rules, we go by the 1 up theory. Anything my attacker does, I can take one step further up the force continuum. Basically you can see very quickly how once it comes to blows, all bets are off and the paperwork after everything is said and done is about the only restriction.

[g6civcx]

My goal is to fight pro when I'm around 25..

What do you think you know, and what do you know that you don't know and want to learn more?

[Phlip]

Until now, I would have never thought that Ken was a non-native speaker... Shit, I have a DEGREE in English and I occasionally slip.

[MikeisNissan]

More jiu jitsu! But fortunately I am in a gym with instructors that are under Pedro Sauer. Pedro Sauer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Sauer)

[g6civcx]

More jiu jitsu! But fortunately I am in a gym with instructors that are under Pedro Sauer. Pedro Sauer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Sauer)

Is there a serious person who doesn't know Pedro Sauer?


Are you on the inside or the outside? As in, are the trainers withholding some techniques from you?

[MikeisNissan]

Inside. My bro inlaws a cop and his instructor actually hooked me up, plus I get along with people very well.

[g6civcx]

Inside. My bro inlaws a cop and his instructor actually hooked me up, plus I get along with people very well.

How far are you from the VA/MD state line? How's your standup?

[MikeisNissan]

I am 30 minutes away from DC. My stand up is great, it is no bullshit.

[LeftNutOfGowd]

Damn i cant spell and English was my worst subject i had to get one of these to get through high school lol

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg246/rborroel21/speak_n_spell.gif

[cdlong]

as long as you can use your and you're, and there, their, and they're properly, you're doing better than a lot of people on this board. like others have said, you're doing fine. Dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com) is a good tool for spelling and definitions if you want some help.

a random pet peeve of mine is the improper use of less and fewer. the worst part is i do it myself frequently. in case you were wondering, less is an amount, fewer is a number. "the smaller yard has less grass and fewer bushes than the larger one."

[hitman]

i didnt pay attention in high school and now my grammar is fucked. i seriously thought grammar was spelled grammmer till like 2 years ago. it sucks for me because for my major i have to write a lot of big papers, and if the teacher reads close enough/cares enough about the grammar, im usually fucked.
the main one i know/use a lot is for "however" you need either a "./;/," before and after it. like
"philosophers have only interpreted the world, the point, however, is to change it"
like that

[Phlip]

i didnt pay attention in high school and now my grammar is fucked. i seriously thought grammar was spelled grammmer till like 2 years ago. it sucks for me because for my major i have to write a lot of big papers, and if the teacher reads close enough/cares enough about the grammar, im usually fucked.
the main one i know/use a lot is for "however" you need either a "./;/," before and after it. like
"philosophers have only interpreted the world, the point, however, is to change it"
like that
Some of those things are common even to those who did pay attention, seriously.
Friends ask me, sometimes even pay me if it is long enough, to edit their papers and shit all the time and I often find myself asking them "did you do this in MS word? You know it checks spelling AND grammar as you go, right?" after seeing all the red squiggly lines under sentences and such.
I was told in high school that English was the hardest language to learn as a non-native, and I didn't understand it until I got to college in the presence of more non-natives than I had seen in my life.

[yudalicious]

according to the dictionary, lay is also the past tense of lie, perhaps that's the word they are using.

[theicecreamdan]

yes

so for example. I lay my papers on my desk in the evening before I retire.

I laid a hot chick last night. LOL

I will be trying to lay this girl tonite.

I just got laid.


David lies.

[drift freaq]

according to the dictionary, lay is also the past tense of lie, perhaps that's the word they are using.

I already stated that lay was in the past tense and lie was in the present tense.

Unless your using laid as I am going to get laid tonight. Though even then its still past tense as you get screwed. LOL kinda of a past present. hahhahhahhaha

[drift freaq]

David lies.

so true because she is in Japan right now. LOL

[SexPanda]

I'm a native speaking American, with quote "proper" grammar, more or less.

I just don't care half of the time, or I'm in a hurry. Don't get tied up on the little things. You type fine as far as I can tell...

Oh yeah. Dont end your sentences in a proposition. Ever.

THats the building they went into- WRONG!

They went into that building-RIGHT! lol.

[g6civcx]

as long as you can use your and you're, and there, their, and they're properly, you're doing better than a lot of people on this board. like others have said, you're doing fine. Dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com) is a good tool for spelling and definitions if you want some help.

Spelling is more braindead because of spell check, but grammar is harder.


a random pet peeve of mine is the improper use of less and fewer. the worst part is i do it myself frequently. in case you were wondering, less is an amount, fewer is a number. "the smaller yard has less grass and fewer bushes than the larger one."

Similar to many vs. much. One is countable and the other is not.

For example, "how many money?" vs. "how much money?" since money is not countable.

"how many dollars?" vs. "how much dollars" since dollar is countable.

"I have less money" vs. "I have fewer money".
"I have less dollars" vs. "I have fewer dollars".

I just don't care half of the time, or I'm in a hurry. Don't get tied up on the little things. You type fine as far as I can tell...

I'm really paranoid because my writing is reviewed in court as evidence. I'm more worried about vagueness and indefiniteness more than style.

I don't want to testify years after I write something and have no idea what the hell I was thinking at the time.


Oh yeah. Dont end your sentences in a proposition. Ever.

THats the building they went into- WRONG!

They went into that building-RIGHT! lol.

I read that this style is actually in contention.

[mRclARK1]

Your grammer compared to most people today is excellent, so I wouldn't worry much.

Um, are you guys training or are you guys competing?


For competition I definitely agree with weight limits, but for training, I don't understand why anyone would not want to train with people who are bigger/faster/stronger.

I routinely get tossed around by huge guys in training and I thank them for it. When I see a guy my weight, I know I'm pretty much going to dominate him unless he's some sort of super freak with retard strength.

Training it's always a good idea to put yourself in a worst case scenario. There's a couple guys I spar with quite often. One is about 5'8ish and 160, smaller dude but still a very capable guy being ex military as well as law enforcement with several years spent in both. The other must be at least 6'4 and 200+, as I'm 6'1 and 170 as he is very noticeably taller and larger. The three of us make a pretty good sparring trio. I'm trying to convince my 6'8 280lb friend he needs to get training with us. haha

training... only time I'm competing (personally speaking) is if I get into it with an inmate, in which case, size has no restrictions, but then again, I also have no rules. What I am saying is that I'm conditioned that when I have a desparity in size, rules need not apply, I hurt people... just the way it is. I have had times in my job experience where deadly force has been authorized, that's just the nature of the beast. When we do have the time to "train" with one another, we generally match up with whoever we want, and generally I match up with another Special Ops guy or two of our CIDS instructors, who are both slightly larger than I am.

Fights have rules, combat, when the line of deadly force employed has been crossed, does not. That's kind of how I've always been taught. In my experience/IMHO, while size is still beneficial, it's not the advantage in combat that it is in a fight. I'm very confident there's people who've taken me on the mats or in the ring, who I could best if (god forbid since I'm talking about friends here) the situation called for it, and vice versa.

I think one of the best systems I've had experience in for its training methods is Krav Maga and CKM. Usually emphasizes worst case, against multiple attackers etc.

I'm curious to see how me and you would match up exchanging some friendly time in the gym/blows/bruises. haha. Then again, I'm just a university chump right now, and needless to say probably rusty, and you're talking about your job, so I'm gonna bet against myself on this one buddy. :(

Anyway, this is not grammer related... haha

Until now, I would have never thought that Ken was a non-native speaker... Shit, I have a DEGREE in English and I occasionally slip.

Agreed.

[DOOK]

I think one of the best systems I've had experience in for its training methods is Krav Maga and CKM. Usually emphasizes worst case, against multiple attackers etc.

I'm curious to see how me and you would match up exchanging some friendly time in the gym/blows/bruises. haha. Then again, I'm just a university chump right now, and needless to say probably rusty, and you're talking about your job, so I'm gonna bet against myself on this one buddy. :(



the Isreali hand to hand, Krav Maga, that you speak of.... simply put is wicked. It's not a fighting artform however, it's a killing artform.

Ahhh, I'm kind of rusty myself, you may be surprised.

[mRclARK1]

the Isreali hand to hand, Krav Maga, that you speak of.... simply put is wicked. It's not a fighting artform however, it's a killing artform.

Ahhh, I'm kind of rusty myself, you may be surprised.

Basically yeah. Civilian classes are watered down, and restraint to fit the situation is stressed heavily, but it's still no slouch of a class.

A friend of mine was an instructor to law enforcement agencies for awhile so he doesn't hold back, as much, when he's got a class with me and a few of his personal friends. But I can guarantee if he didn't know I was planning/hoping on getting into law enforcement myself he'd probably not do so.

Typical class and techniques are intense shit. Aerobic workouts till exhaustion AND THEN you spar with three or four dudes, tie up an arm so you can't use it, blast music while you try to fight, full contact blows, basically teaches you to use anything available as a weapon, groin hits, eye gouges and dirty fighting is encouraged... haha. :loco:

A class I sat in on, the instructor took the class out into the back alley parking lot when it was dark out for them to practice a technique. Someone asked why out there, and he just said "Cause that's the kinda place you may have to fight to survive... not on a mat in a gym."

Bleh... Wish I had time for more classes, it's a great workout at the very least.

[NemeGuero]

FUCK ENGLISH..

its the worst language ever.

Seriously.

[g6civcx]

FUCK ENGLISH..

its the worst language ever.

Seriously.

I hear you there.

[SHIFT_*grind*]

Seriously, judging from your posts, I applaud you. Your grammar is better than most Americans. It makes me a little scared, and more than a little sad.

My mom is an English teacher so I'm a complete grammar Nazi. Sadly though, I'm not very good at teaching it or explaining things. It's hard for me to pick out parts of speech and describe the rules; I just use proper grammar and get irritated when other people don't :p

A few of my pet peeves:

-Irregardless. Conversate. THEY'RE NOT WORDS. STOP USING THEM. :bash:
-Different from vs. different than. Everyone uses "different than," and it's almost always wrong.
-Pronunciation with words like "jewelry," "nuclear" (OH GOD GEORGE BUSH) and "realtor." LOOK at the word, it's "joo-wool-ree," not "joo-luh-ree."
-A LOT more that I can't recall at the moment.


Yes, I am a sad, sad man.

[hitman]

Oh yeah. Dont end your sentences in a proposition. Ever.




this thread has giving us a lot to be thankful for
:2f2f::love::aw:

[Phlip]

A few of my pet peeves:

-Irregardless. Conversate. THEY'RE NOT WORDS. STOP USING THEM. :bash:
-Different from vs. different than. Everyone uses "different than," and it's almost always wrong.
-Pronunciation with words like "jewelry," "nuclear" (OH GOD GEORGE BUSH) and "realtor." LOOK at the word, it's "joo-wool-ree," not "joo-luh-ree."
-A LOT more that I can't recall at the moment.


Yes, I am a sad, sad man.
Nothing sad about it, everything you named there are some that bug the shit out of me, along with not pronouncing the R in "February."
One time I met this chick in a park, she was walking her dog, I was reading, she stopped and sat on the bench and talked to me for a while, she was getting ready to leave and asked to exchange numbers so we could "conversate" later... It is over 2 years later, now and I STILL haven't called her.

[g6civcx]

Nothing sad about it, everything you named there are some that bug the shit out of me, along with not pronouncing the R in "February."
One time I met this chick in a park, she was walking her dog, I was reading, she stopped and sat on the bench and talked to me for a while, she was getting ready to leave and asked to exchange numbers so we could "conversate" later... It is over 2 years later, now and I STILL haven't called her.

Damn. That's harsh. Low tolerance for poor language skills?

What's the proper usage of "different from" and "different than"?


I have another question. How do we know what is and isn't a word? I mean I can look in the dictionary, but I watched a documentary about language. The show featured dictionary editors. The guests said that dictionaries don't define words. Dictionaries just capture the definitions of words based on usage.

So who gets to decide what is and isn't a word?

[SHIFT_*grind*]

Also, when people feel like they can split "another" into two separate words and stick adverbs in the middle.

"I would like another sandwich." - OK
"She didn't like the file I made, so I had to make a whole 'nother file." - NOT OK

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

back on subject:
the use of the word "lay" in this instance is pronounced as "lie."

Consider yourself learned.

[SHIFT_*grind*]

Damn. That's harsh. Low tolerance for poor language skills?

It's not that I think everyone should speak 100% perfect proper English all the time. It's just that some people whose first language is English really don't even try. Your posts are very well put together, yet people on this forum (and pretty much every message board) have grammar and communication skills so poor that it's hard to even figure out what the hell is being said. One thing I see ALL the time is putting words like "not" where they don't belong, or adding a "'t" to the end of can, so that the entire meaning of the sentence is changed.

What's the proper usage of "different from" and "different than"?

That one's pretty nitpicky, I have to admit. They both mean basically the same thing, just with different connotations. This explains it pretty well: § 98. different from / different than. 3. Word Choice. The American Heritage Book of English Usage. 1996 (http://www.bartleby.com/64/C003/098.html) They each have their place, yet I only ever hear "different than."


I have another question. How do we know what is and isn't a word?

That's complicated as well. If something that is incorrect gets used enough, it becomes correct because people beat it into the English language through repetition.

"Conversate," traditionally speaking, is not a word. The word you'd be looking for is "converse." But people use it, all the time, so it's probably in the dictionary by now.

"Irregardless" just doesn't make any sense because it contradicts the meaning of what the person is trying to say. "Regardless" means "not regarding." The "ir-" prefix means "not," so what you're saying with "irregardless" is "not not regarding." It's a double-negative. But people use it - again, all the time - and so it's probably in the dictionary. But I bet it has "NONSTANDARD" next to it =P

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

the only pet peeve I have is the misuse of the word there, their, and they're. God, I hate that! It's all 3rd grade material.

[Phlip]

That's complicated as well. If something that is incorrect gets used enough, it becomes correct because people beat it into the English language through repetition.

"Irregardless" just doesn't make any sense because it contradicts the meaning of what the person is trying to say. "Regardless" means "not regarding." The "ir-" prefix means "not," so what you're saying with "irregardless" is "not not regarding." It's a double-negative. But people use it - again, all the time - and so it's probably in the dictionary. But I bet it has "NONSTANDARD" next to it =P
Yes, it is a nonstandard:
Irregardless is considered nonstandard because of the two negative elements ir- and -less. It was probably formed on the analogy of such words as irrespective, irrelevant, and irreparable. Those who use it, including on occasion educated speakers, may do so from a desire to add emphasis. Irregardless first appeared in the early 20th century and was perhaps popularized by its use in a comic radio program of the 1930s.
It was basically bludgeoned into "real" word status, and conversate is in and noted as being "slang" itself.

[g6civcx]

back on subject:
the use of the word "lay" in this instance is pronounced as "lie."

Consider yourself learned.

Are you serious? Is he serious?

Don't joke with me about this stuff. I really don't know the difference :confused:

[drift freaq]

the only pet peeve I have is the misuse of the word there, their, and they're. God, I hate that! It's all 3rd grade material.

In the use of their vs there vs they're. I am guilty of typing on autopilot aka typing out the sentence I am typing and not thinking about the proper spelling for the use. I usually go back and correct myself on it.

Though its not so much not knowing its more kind of an absent minded thing.

I know their is in relation to a person or group of people aka company and whatnot, aka a pro noun.

I know there is more of action word, adverb.

I know they're is contraction and a verb.

Though when typing it quickly my mind will actually typo sometimes,especially if I am thinking about multiple items at once.

I guess there is a glitch in the programming. hahahhahha

So when some asshole in a debate, who is losing, jumps on that typo, they just fail for thinking they are the bright ones.

[Phlip]

Are you serious? Is he serious?

Don't joke with me about this stuff. I really don't know the difference :confused:
That is absolutely not the case, I don't know if he was joking or not, but it was not right either way.

[g6civcx]

I know their is in relation to a person or group of people aka company and whatnot, aka a pro noun.

Would that be an adjective? "Their" describes a noun.

I know there is more of action word, adverb.

I just looked this up and it's an adverb, a pronoun, a noun, an adjective, and a verb. Is there anything left?

[drift freaq]

Would that be an adjective? "Their" describes a noun.



I just looked this up and it's an adverb, a pronoun, a noun, an adjective, and a verb. Is there anything left?

Their is technically a pro noun. There is an adverb but used in conjunction with is could be and adjective.

The key to all of this is identifying grammatically correct sentences. If you know the basics then when you type the sentence it and read it back for proof reading you should be able to catch it. Nine times out of ten it will sound wrong if not typed right. Of course the words that sound similar but have different actions you have to know. If you know them though then you can roll it.

Trust me, the girl does translation of English to Japanese, with sentences handed to her in third hand English.
She will say things to me and I will be like, huh what? Then she will type out what she is reading,at which point I realize the person has poorly worded the sentence, thereby confusing comprehension and causing translation issues.
I am not perfect in English myself just because I got bored with it in school. Though I love reading and always read several grades above my grade level.
I learned, in the course of writing for Magazines though, to try and write concise sentences and remember to use comma's.

[cdlong]

their is a posessive plural pronoun, they is just a plural pronoun.

that reminds me of something, when talking about one person with no specific gender don't use they, their, etc. it should be he/she or he or she.

[g6civcx]

that reminds me of something, when talking about one person with no specific gender don't use they, their, etc. it should be he/she or he or she.

I have been very curious about this for a long time.

Why does English have natural gender and not grammatical gender like other languages, e.g. Spanish?

As a sidenote, why must a person be he or she? Why doesn't English have a neuter pronoun?

[BOROSUN]

this thread reminds me of rusty from mad tv.

[SexPanda]

g6civcx Said:
I read that this style is actually in contention.


whats that mean? Lol. See. YOur not doing bad.


But seriously whats that mean?

[g6civcx]

whats that mean? Lol. See. YOur not doing bad.


But seriously whats that mean?

What are you asking about?

a) What does "that" refer to?
b) What is in contention about ending sentences with propositions?

I read that it's acceptable to end sentences with a proposition. Some people fight tooth over nail but others just don't care.

Who's right?

[SHIFT_*grind*]

As a sidenote, why must a person be he or she? Why doesn't English have a neuter pronoun?

That is an excellent question. :( It should have one, because using "they" in reference to a single entity is incorrect, but in some cases you don't have much choice. Using "he/she" gets really tiring. "If someone wants to write a book, he/she must consider his/her opinions very carefully before committing his/her ideas to paper and spending his/her time on such a large task." OHMYGOD, so cumbersome. It's easier to just be wrong and use "they."

[NemeGuero]

I admire your persistance. I would have given-the-fuck-up. haha

This is why i hate that shit.

It might have been different if America had some better fucking public education and we learned English real good!

*watch how many people jump on the "good/well"*

[g6civcx]

I admire your persistance. I would have given-the-fuck-up. haha

This is why i hate that shit.

It's not persistence. I just want to know what the hell the right answer is. Everyone I've asked, even college professors, have given different answers.

I know it's like asking the meaning of life, but if we don't know why the hell we're doing it, then why are we doing it?

I'm not looking for a reason for everything. I just want to know what basis there is to call someone right or wrong when the rule isn't clear.


Even bullshiz like religion I can understand. They have a belief. If you against their belief, you're wrong. I may not agree but at least I know where they're coming from.

With grammar it's like everyone intuitively knows what's right or wrong, but can't clearly articulate why they think something is right or wrong.

I just want to know so I can be a man and do the right thing real good :loco:

[mRclARK1]

I admire your persistance. I would have given-the-fuck-up. haha

This is why i hate that shit.

It might have been different if America had some better fucking public education and we learned English real good!

*watch how many people jump on the "good/well"*

It doesn't help, no matter how the education system is (agreed, needs improvement), that horrible language use and grammar are EVERYWHERE. On TV, newspapers, the internet... List goes on and on. My grammar went to hell when I first started coming on Zilvia, and the internet more in general, when it had been very good in high school. I was correcting my English teacher... no jokes. It's only improved a decent amount in the last couple years attending university where it's still fairly enforced/required in assignments.

Also agreed that English is a retarded language, but it's quickly becoming the standard with its widespread use, if it isn't already. It's my first language, and I'm damn thankful for that. haha

[g6civcx]

Another one has been bothering me:

"I will lend/loan you my car."

Which is the correct verb?

[mRclARK1]

Lend is correct. *EDIT: Loan isn't a noun and I'm stoopid. :duh:

This site slipped my mind earlier:

http://englishplus.com/grammar/stylcont.htm

[g6civcx]

Lend is correct. Loan is a noun.



Main Entry: 2loan
Function: transitive verb
Date: 13th century
: lend
— loan·able \ˈlō-nə-bəl\ adjective
usage The verb loan is one of the words English settlers brought to America and continued to use after it had died out in Britain. Its use was soon noticed by British visitors and somewhat later by the New England literati, who considered it a bit provincial. It was flatly declared wrong in 1870 by a popular commentator, who based his objection on etymology. A later scholar showed that the commentator was ignorant of Old English and thus unsound in his objection, but by then it was too late, as the condemnation had been picked up by many other commentators. Although a surprising number of critics still voice objections, loan is entirely standard as a verb. You should note that it is used only literally; lend is the verb used for figurative expressions, such as “lending a hand” or “lending enchantment.”


This site slipped my mind earlier:

Contents for Style and Usage (http://englishplus.com/grammar/stylcont.htm)

Thanks for the link, but I see discrepancies from other sites as well. Who's right?

[mRclARK1]

Who's right? Welcome to English. haha

I've gone with that site to guide most of my questions in university papers, and haven't been getting any flak about my grammar so far. Which is significantly better than what I present as my grammar here. haha

Now that I think about it however, that site is probably wrong. "Loan" doesn't fit as a noun really.

[g6civcx]

Engrish. Do I speak it?

[mRclARK1]

Engrish. You do spoke it. So do me!!

[g6civcx]

So do me!!

I'm sorry, but I am saving myself for SexPanda.

[mRclARK1]

I'm sorry, but I am saving myself for SexPanda.

:rofl:

Pfffft.

:fawk:

:keke: