any lawyers or law knowing people on here?? need help!!

[((sr)) kelly]

so i was throwing a foot ball around with 3 of my friends in a parking lott of a go-kart place next to out condos at the beach. One of my friends thinks it be funny to ride a go cart around the parking lott.. so he got in one. All of the go carts are just chilling outside and you done have to open any gates or anything to get to them.. anyone can take them.


a cop comes after about 2 minutes of him riding it and gives us all 2nd degree tresspassing tickets... there were no NO TRESPASSING signs anywhere.. it was an open parking lott just like a wal-mart parking lott


how much trouble am i looking at if i never touched the gocart and just sat and watched?

im 17 with a clean record to...

[unwed_transient]

sure anyone can take them, but was your friend given permission to do so?

if not, your presence makes you as guilty as your friend.

even if there are no signs, and it is a private (not owned and operated by any level of government) lot, you may be cited for trespassing.

it's a misdemeanor. hire a lawyer and fight it since you were not the one in the cart and maybe you can get off. either way, it's a misdemeanor.

[slw240sx]

dont worry in a year or less you will have a clean record again.

[OptionZero]

he gave you a ticket?
was it just a citation?

is there even a court date...

[DohcKA]

he would have to seal his record in order for them not to access all his records from his minor years

[OptionZero]

he lives in NC

which means he needs to get NC legal advice

if you dont even have a court date, it's probably just an infraction

[S14DB]

he gave you a ticket?
was it just a citation?

is there even a court date...

He said 2nd degree. So, I assume he means 2nd degree misdemeanor.

It is unusual cause most trespassing laws if there is no defined barrier like a fence or it's a business open to the public. The owner or person in charge has to ask you to leave and/or get a trespass warning from police. Then if you come back you get a trespass ticket.

I would be more inclined to believe you got a loitering ticket. What is the Legal Code the ticket cites?

[Dirty Habit]

As in most dealings with the law, I suggest:

Seek legal council.
Bend over.
Grab ankles.

[S14DB]

Bend over.
Grab ankles.
If you're into those types of things...
:keke::ghey:

[Dirty Habit]

If you're into those types of things...
:keke::ghey:

Hell yeah I am.


Calesthenics do wonders each and every day. Toe touches, ankle grabs, hip thrusts, cheek spreads.

I wouldnt dream of getting my business on without em.

:naughty:

[((sr)) kelly]

yeh its not a ticket its just a paper with my court date and what the officer found..


i was just sitting there in the parking lott watching my friend on the go cart and the officer comes in and holds a tazer on everyone and makes us all lay down on the ground... he cussed us out for about 20 minutes and then wrote us all BS tickets because only one kid rode the go cart


it was an open parking lott that attatches to the street... there were no gates at all..

there werent even any gates to get to the go carts haha.. and no one told us to leave

[g6civcx]

yeh its not a ticket its just a paper with my court date and what the officer found..

It is a citation for court appearance to respond to criminal charges. It is a "ticket".

I think you're using "ticket" to mean prepayable offenses. Prepaying means you're admitting guilt and just wants to pay to save everybody's time.

i was just sitting there in the parking lott watching my friend on the go cart and the officer comes in and holds a tazer on everyone and makes us all lay down on the ground... he cussed us out for about 20 minutes and then wrote us all BS tickets because only one kid rode the go cart


it was an open parking lott that attatches to the street... there were no gates at all..

there werent even any gates to get to the go carts haha.. and no one told us to leave

I'm not licensed to practice criminal law in NC so this is just my general comments. Seek a licensed attorney ASAP and get it resolved.


For trespassing, it doesn't matter if there is no gate, no sign, or no one told you to leave.

If there were a gate, then you would also get breaking and entering on top of trespassing. So be glad there isn't a gate.

If someone told you to leave and you didn't, you would have gotten possibly assault on top of trespassing.

You all may go down for robbery, trespassing, and maybe some sort of conspiracy charge.

Trespassing law is really complicated.

The fact is that you have to respect the property line. Just because the lot was open doesn't mean you can come through. The only people who can do that are police, fire/EMS, mailman/UPS/FedEx, and utility companies. Those people have the right to go into property uninvited. Just about everyone else would be trespassing.

Taking a go cart even though it was left out could be robbery even though you didn't leave with it. You can't just take people's stuff while on private property, even if the property is in plain sight.

Hell, even if you found stuff on public property you still don't have the right to it. You have to turn it in and wait to see if anybody claims it.


These are some serious offences and you need a serious lawyer. Don't mess around because you can get slammed hard. It's not as simple as a bunch of kids having fun.

You don't want criminal convictions on your record and have to explain that for the rest of your life.

[OptionZero]

Show up.
Talk to your public defender.
Listen to what he says.
Ask questions.
Listen to what he says x 100.
Read every piece of paper.
Ask more questions.
Listen to what the judge says x 100.

Keep your fucking mouth shut unless you're talking to your lawyer.

Kill any attitude you.

Don't miss any court dates.

I dont think this is an appropriate forum for any more specific legal advice given that none of us are NC criminal lawyers

[((sr)) kelly]

well im positive im not going to get charged for burglary or anything else because the cop told us that he was going to let us off easy and only charge us with tresspassing and that it was up to the place if they wanted to charge us with burglary, but he said i would be informed within a week if they were going to press any extra charges on us and they havent..


how big are the trespassing fines in cali?

[g6civcx]

well im positive im not going to get charged for burglary or anything else because the cop told us that he was going to let us off easy and only charge us with tresspassing and that it was up to the place if they wanted to charge us with burglary, but he said i would be informed within a week if they were going to press any extra charges on us and they havent..

Never say never. They're supposed to let you know the charges. Is it listed on the summon?

how big are the trespassing fines in cali?

In my state, if you trespassed and touched something worth more than $200, you can get up to 20 years in state prison. VA don't play with private property.

Im sure those go-cars are worth well above $200. That would have been big troubles over here.

[((sr)) kelly]

yeh but that 20 years is for adults with crazy records.. and i didnt touch the gocart..

im a minor with a clean record... im pretty sure ill just be doing community service at worst, but i really think ill just get slapped with a fine.


and the summon is the paper the cop gave me correct?? if so its only tresspassing..the officer said he was letting us off reallllly easy, eventhough i disagree.. he should have just arrested the person on the go cart

[g6civcx]

yeh but that 20 years is for adults with crazy records

Sentencing is really up to the judge's discretion. They have sentencing guidelines but they can impose whatever sentence they want up to the max. The max sentence is on the books for them to deal with weird situations.

Just put on your best effort and be ready for the worst. Then you can be relieved when you get a lighter sentence.

i didnt touch the gocart

You came as a group. Someone in the group touched the gocart. The entire group goes down for conspiracy.

That's why you always have to watch out for who you're hanging with. If some shiz goes down, you can be guilty by association.


Just imagine if someone in the group pulled out a gun and shot the cop. Then you have to testify against the shooter or go down for conspiracy to commit murder.

It's messed up so watch yourself. You really have to know the people around you.

im a minor with a clean record... im pretty sure ill just be doing community service at worst, but i really think ill just get slapped with a fine.

Don't assume anything. Just kiss ass and hope for the best. You never know if you'll get a hanging judge.

and the summon is the paper the cop gave me correct?? if so its only tresspassing

That's not as bad as it could be though.

the officer said he was letting us off reallllly easy, eventhough i disagree.. he should have just arrested the person on the go cart

I would keep that opinion to yourself. You don't want to look like you're telling him how to do his job.

I agree with the officer. If I were the arresting officer, I would charge everyone with conspriracy to trespass, breaking and entering, grand larceny, and grand theft auto. Let your parents pay attorneys to reduce the charges in court.

Some jurisdictions rate police officers by the number and severity of convictions they rack up. Cops in this situation like to throw the book at you.

[MELLO*SOS]

You should start by looking up the law code that is written on your summons and read it all (google it). There are provisions for tresspassing and sometimes its different for private vs commercial property.

When I was 17 I got a ticket for vehicular trespass in Cali, I looked it up and found the law also required the property owners needed to have no tresspass signs posted once every X feet.. I went back and checked out the place, there was not a sign in sight. I mentioned this to the probation officer (no judge was involved) and got the charge dismissed. Whether it was for that specific reason or something else, couldn't say, but my point is you should always read the laws you're being charged with breaking.

Anyway your friend is an idiot and got all of you busted for his stupidity.

Consult with a defense attorney and hope for the best.

[OptionZero]

g6civix,

Being present isn't nearly enough to get you hit with conspiracy (successfully). Shared intent is required, so thats one element they'd have to prove. With only his version of the facts (and a limited one at that), its impossible to evaluate how that will turn out.

Also, the cop does not decide what to charge you with. He can write down whatever he wants, but in the end he submits his police report, the district attorney looks at it and decides what charges he can file in good faith.

Again, I'd refrain from giving too much further analysis in specifics.


Original poster,
make your court days
pay attention to the process
follow instructions
read what they give you
listen to what they tell you
learn from your mistake

Show contrition.

That's about as much as anyone on an internet forum can give you

[((sr)) kelly]

1 more question...

there are 4 of us involved.... we all have the same court date and everything, so if one of us got a lawyer and the lawyer got their charges dropped or lessened, would that ruling also go for the rest of us? you know like a precident?

[S14DB]

1 more question...

there are 4 of us involved.... we all have the same court date and everything, so if one of us got a lawyer and the lawyer got their charges dropped or lessened, would that ruling also go for the rest of us? you know like a precident?

No, he would get off scott free and you'd be fucked. Get a lawyer for the 20th time.

[S14cagged]

Which beach was this on,

i had a similar problem around altantic beach and i know a couple of good lawyers

[spoolandslide]

you should have pulled out your camera phone and said bad things to the cop and given him rude hand gestures (:fawkd: or :jerkit: or even :down:)
and gotten arrested and then you could have gone to juvi and told all your friends how badass you are and then you turn 18 in 2 months and it all goes away

you could have gotten the hottest girls in the whole school man

[OptionZero]

No, he would get off scott free and you'd be fucked. Get a lawyer for the 20th time.

More specifically, get your own lawyer, public defender or not.

Its extremely frowned upon for an attorney to defend multiple criminal co-defendants, and permitted only for the most basic of proceedings (if even then)

[((sr)) kelly]

i dont feel like paying 500 plus for a lawyer... but i guess ill look into one

thanks for all the help tho guys

[OptionZero]

if you cannot afford a lawyer, the court will appoint one for you

[((sr)) kelly]

i thought that was only if they read me my rights and took me to jail..


and i just got a reallllly good lawyer for 200 bucks... my friends mom works at a law firm

[g6civcx]

Being present isn't nearly enough to get you hit with conspiracy (successfully). Shared intent is required, so thats one element they'd have to prove. With only his version of the facts (and a limited one at that), its impossible to evaluate how that will turn out.

Also, the cop does not decide what to charge you with. He can write down whatever he wants, but in the end he submits his police report, the district attorney looks at it and decides what charges he can file in good faith.

I hear you, but as the arresting officer, I will hit him with everything possible. At worst the commonwealth attorney will decline to prosecute or the charge is dismissed.

Based on my experience, it is acceptable for law enforcement to press slightly harsher charges than what is fair and let the defense negotiate the charge down, either with plea or trial.

Blame the adversarial system. Pro se defendants are SOL.

More specifically, get your own lawyer, public defender or not.

I don't trust public defenders.

Its extremely frowned upon for an attorney to defend multiple criminal co-defendants, and permitted only for the most basic of proceedings (if even then)

Agreed. Get your own regardless of what others do.

i thought that was only if they read me my rights and took me to jail..

Reading your rights is only required if the police takes you into custody. You're still facing criminal charges, and if found guilty with a jail sentence, the court will take you to jail on the spot.

i just got a reallllly good lawyer for 200 bucks... my friends mom works at a law firm

People generally put way to much faith in lawyers without knowing the law or what the lawyers are doing behind the scene.

In my experience, 90% of lawyers do not know what they're doing.

Be prudent and don't become complacent.

[((sr)) kelly]

i doubt im going to jail....VA must not play around

[g6civcx]

i doubt im going to jail....VA must not play around

A cue that you're getting a jail sentence is that the judge will appoint a public defender for you. The court only does that when the judge is considering jail time.

[OptionZero]

A cop can put anything he wants on the ticket, but formal charges are initiated by a complaint filed by the district attorney.

The DA reviews police reports and a quick look at the evidence. What he charges might be exactly what the cop wrote up, or might not, depending on the situation.

After arraignment, the DA will file an "information", which is another formal charging sheet. It's just a second stage of the process; sometimes they just amend the complaint, sometimes the work up new papers. These confirm the exact charges and might have some other data on it depending on the jurisdiction.



G6civic is mostly correct:
No lawyer = no jail time, period. The Sixth Amendment is quite clear.

However, I believe (this is getting into dangerous territory for what I should saying publicly, for free, to a stranger) that a lawyer is not required IF...

1. The crime charged is punishable by jailtime, BUT
2. there is low possibility that you might actually get jail time, AND
3. you don't get sentenced to jail, (just fines and such)


I cannot speak for the quality of a public defender's office on the otherside of the country, but in any event, the rules still apply:
1. Keep your mouth shut in court unless the judge asks you a question
2. Listen to you lawyer's directions
3. Ask questions when you don't understand
4. PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT HE EXPLAINS
5. read everything thats put in front of you


If the original poster is a juvenile under Virginia law, I speculate that they are obligated to inform his parents prior to any action.

[g6civcx]

If the original poster is a juvenile under Virginia law, I speculate that they are obligated to inform his parents prior to any action.

Unfortunately due to the increase in violent crimes around here lately, sometimes they will be tried as adults at the court's discretion.

[s14owner]

you will get some probation or community survice if not then baned from the place for like 6 monthes

[OptionZero]

Unfortunately due to the increase in violent crimes around here lately, sometimes they will be tried as adults at the court's discretion.

They are still juveniles if they are below the age of majority in whatever state they're in.

The decision to try and punish as an adult comes afterwards. In California, it's a W & C section 707 petition that applies only to murder and non-statutory rape IIRC (too lazy to lexis it). Age of majority is 18, minimum age to punish as an adult is...14 (Also IIRC not for sure).

[SlideWell]

take that shit to court man. spend the money. good money. its always worth it. any person that has done time will tell you that. shit just adds up and you get judged for every little thing on ur record in the end. good luck.

[OptionZero]

"take that shit to court"?

What exactly are you trying to say with some random comment like that?

He has to "go to court" since he received a summons.

If you're trying to tell him to take it to trial, then I kindly suggest you stop giving him advice right now.

[s14jesse]

dude ur doing like 5 to 10 years in pelican bay..lol

[aznpoopy]

here's a legal tip OP. anytime you get charged with something, LOOK UP THE LAW. google it. far easier than posting shit on a forum.

i think you're fine... because:

http://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-159.13.html


North Carolina General Statutes § 14-159.13. Second degree trespass.

§ 14‑159.13. Second degree trespass.

(a) Offense. – A person commits the offense of second degree trespass if, without authorization, he enters or remains on premises of another:

(1) After he has been notified not to enter or remain there by the owner, by a person in charge of the premises, by a lawful occupant, or by another authorized person; or

(2) That are posted, in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, with notice not to enter the premises.

(b) Classification. – Second degree trespass is a Class 3 misdemeanor.

NC 2nd degree trespass requires

1) the unauthorized entering or remaining on the property of another AND
2) the continuing entering or remaining after notice by an authorized person or by a relatively conspicuous posting

nobody told you to gtfo. you said there was no warning or posting. if that's true, you can't be nailed for trespassing. it's likely the cop was just trying to scare you guys into not doing stupid shit like hanging out in parking lots at night with retard friends who fuck around with go karts that don't belong to you. hopefully you learned your lesson. don't hang out with dumb fuck assholes; you can get into trouble by association. now go to court and plead not guilty.

[OptionZero]

All we have is his version of the facts.

he may be telling the truth or not, but unless we're in the courtroom, we can't really evaluate the strength of their case against him.

but yes

stop hanging around with dipshits


EDIT:
random curious observation

you're in NJ
g6 is in VA
i'm in CA

zilvian law practice is quite spread out

[aznpoopy]

we should start up a multistate law practice

option, g6 and poopy, LLC

[g6civcx]

They are still juveniles if they are below the age of majority in whatever state they're in.

I agree there.

The decision to try and punish as an adult comes afterwards. In California, it's a W & C section 707 petition that applies only to murder and non-statutory rape IIRC (too lazy to lexis it). Age of majority is 18, minimum age to punish as an adult is...14 (Also IIRC not for sure).

VA is really messed up. Basically it's at the commonwealth attorney's discretion. There's no clear guideline on what should and shouldn't be transferred. The law is broad eough such that any crime, no matter how minor, can be transferred if the crime can be linked to another violent crime. The statue doesn't define what it means for two crimes to be linked.

They're also trying to pass stricter one-strike-you're-out laws for juvies.


EDIT:
random curious observation

you're in NJ
g6 is in VA
i'm in CA

zilvian law practice is quite spread out

I'm just posting bullshiz. I don't know anything about criminal prosecution.

I do intellectual property, which technically means I can correspond with the federal government from anywhere in the world. I rarely if ever give oral arguments. I just choose to be in DC because that's where all the action is.