Am I the only one pro-cloning?

[toddnappi]

I've been debating this endlessly recently. I for one happen to think cloning should be allowed scientifically to foster the great minds of this nation, sorta like the 6th day deal. I don't think it should be made publically available. But I think people automatically shoot it down because of that religion argument - "pro soul" - and all that non-scientific bs. I hate how this scientific topic suddenly turns into an ethical, non-scientific issue. I am definately pro-cloning, but no one I know or any of my legislators are.

[SaintlyCharBoy]

i personally agree with cloning for scientific study, but i fear the implied eugenics that follow the same lines ala gattica

i'm sort of afreaid of seeing a napa people parts store springing up, where upon birth, a clone would be *started* who is brain fried... a donor chassis if you will, and upon catastrophic accidents, you grap a new fender, or eye as the case may be.

i'm also the kid who doesn't believe in life support outside of surgery

:rolleyes:

-sean

[ca18guy]

Current cloning tech is not up to snuff yet to clone humans. Of the rats and sheep they clone today half die early/at birth and a good percentage of the others have or develope defects later on in life. To me thats no where close to a good enough percentage to have a human cloned.

That aside, once cloning is reliable enough to clone humans I personally would be against it. To me there are only three reasons for clones, one for "harvasting" of organs. Two, for bringing back the dead (like cloning Enstien, Babe Ruth or a dead relative) Three, a way for people who can't have kids to get a child.

I am against harvasting organs from clones for obvious reasons. I don't see any humane way of cloning a whole human and then "harvasting" the organs after they mature. The thought of whole warehouses full of incubating humans waiting for their organs to be ripped out of them just isn't really doing it for me. Having a sense of compassion for human life is my downside i guess :o If they can clone individual organs, by all means go for it. I am more for stem cell research, it could solve alot of problems and make cloning for body parts pointless.

I am very against cloning people for novelty (ie. cloning yourself or a famous person) My reason is simple, people need to move on with there lives. Imagine your mother died and you cloned her, so what now? You have to raise a child version of your mother, she doesn't have the memorys of your mother, infact she could act totally different then her. What happens when Mom 2.0 tells you she hates you and is moving to Arkansas with a guy named Bob. I can't imagine the psycological effect, even though it wasn't your actual mom, it was still her exact image. After all that what did the cloning solve? All it did was prolong the mourning for the original deceased person by decades! (I used mother as an example, insert any deceased family member, freind, or yourself)

What about cloning "the great minds of society?" Well alot of good that would do, a clone is basically a physical copy not a mental copy. It would be like Enstiens's grandson, he would look identical to him but whos to say he would develope his way of thinking. How many other members of Enstiens family today are genious? Not to mention imagine the pressure and public scrutiny on the poor guy, he would probably go psyco before he was 20. (once again Enstien was the example insert any famous person in his place and it would be similar)

When it comes down to it that form of cloning is nothing more then people not being able to deal with death. People die, society needs to move on, can you imagine if they cloned all the great actors for the next 500 years? How fresh would that be at the box office seeing Pretty Women 26 starring Julia Roberts ver 14.0 Take those latest loonies that say they cloned a kid (yeah right) they are all about living forever (I guess they forgot that the brain also ages?) Would you really want to live forever? People just need to live with the fact that death is imminent.

As for cloning for reproduction, its well meaning but pointless. While I feel for the couple that can't have a kid, there are allready what, 5 billion people walking around. Adoption should be advertised on huge posters at in-vertro (sp?) clinics. Besides who would want to raise a copy of themselves :creepy: I have other nit-piky problems with this also but I'm tired off typing.

[X-Iceman]

I am goin to agree with ca18guy. I am much more for stem cell research. It is much more humane, and it would allow people the possibility to live a better life. Anything that would enable a person to live a more fulfilling life shouldnt be over looked because of some moral issue. So, yes I am against cloning. Just brings up too many issues, and you just know of of the big issues will arise and just bend the human population over.

[toddnappi]

Good points. I didn't elaborate that much. But the truth is stem cell research will also be banned because many dislike the idea of scientific research on an embryo.

[X-Iceman]

I believe it will be very much controlled by the government. In other parts of the world, I believe it will be studied stronger and more independently. It brings up the question of helping create a better life for an individual or allowing an embryo to grow into a human being. I strongly feel that once stem cell research is a good two years in, and people start seeing progress; that is when people will choose to help those who were not as fortunate. Of course, the moral issue will never be solved. Both cloning and stem cells have the possibilities to add the medical field in creating a better life for those who seek their help. But there will always be the possibilities of someone using the technology for an alternative purpose and unfortunately they may hamper the progress of cloning (individual’s organs) and stem cells.

[whateverjames]

here's what i think: cloning should...hmm..ya, what CA18Guy said. good job writing that.

but then there's the anti social side of me that says "just what we need, more mother****ers on this planet. i don't like people as it is, and the population is growing fast enough, the last thing i need are more people to piss me off and get in front of me during rush hour" :D :D ;)

[camppain]

the clone wars has begun........... Darkness evil the senate now is.

What ca18guy said ;)

[HippoSleek]

I'm pro-cloning here. Not so much pro, but I don't see the same issues that some are seeing. I don't so much think of it as a way to clone dead people - that really isn't where I see it used.

I think it will primarily be used by those seeking children, but unable to reproduce. In some cases, in-vitro just doesn't work - either her eggs or his sperm are useless OR there is something missing (like two eggs, no sperm or no eggs, two sperm). I find it awfully hard to justify telling these people - no, you can't have a child even though we have the technology. I know a couple who spent $50K+ trying to have a child only to adopt.

The moral/ethical arguments against it fail for the same reasons they fail against in vitro. Bible or no, it just isn't that easy any more. Genetically, identical twins are already exact copies, so so much for the "soul needs a unique genetic vessel" argument.

The other thing is that there is a demand for cloning. People want it and will pay $$$$ for it. That being the case, there will be somewhere they can go. Baring an international accord signed by every nation with the exact same wording and ample enforcement, cloning will happen somewhere (like abortion before it). The alternative is to try to do it in safe, controlled environments with certain rules and standards in place.

The bottom line for me is that you can't fight the inevitable - you can only hope to control it. All this, when the time is right. As ca18guy noted, there is far too much risk involved in the process at present for it to safely be used on humans.

[whateverjames]

Originally posted by HippoSleek
All this, when the time is right. As ca18guy noted, there is far too much risk involved in the process at present for it to safely be used on humans.

very true. even the guy who cloned the sheep is against human cloning right now. he said 'Dolly', the one out of 276 sheep he's cloned, has had no problems yet. some attempts never worked, some had underdeveloped lungs, smaller blood vessels, seemed ok at first then died, and some were just fine but aged very quickly.

[AutoDestruct]

If it can be done , it will be done. It is not a fact of whether you are pro or con , but of the ease in which this procedure could be done. Technology and science will reign supreme over man. It is the only realalistic path theat this could take :D

prove me wrong, I have to go to get books for school, Ciao
Eventually everything will happen, at least once.

[X-Iceman]

Of course it will happen. Humans will push their minds to the limit, always trying to fulfill their imagination.

[Justin-ATL]

I was pro cloning for a long time and kinda still am but the one reason I dislike it is because it does nothing for the species.... nothing new is created, the species is not furthered at all by this...instead it stays where it is :( Evolve ppl damn, I now see cloning as a step back instead of forward.

[Steeles]

I dont wanna reproduce let alone let another MF JUST like me loose! although they can clone a few choice females and send um my way......:D

(for those that missed it this entire post is a joke, if you didnt get it, laugh now..... and then figure the ish out when you get home)

[S13Grl]

It's defying God, it's defying nature. But you know what... I'm still for it. But only for specific causes: like cloning body parts... what if one of us, God forbid, loses a leg one day, and with enough money, it's possible to get it back. I'm all for that. Or what if someone dies and they've got young children and a family to raise? All for that too. Shouldn't be abused. I don't think we should create our own children because of it, there's so many children that need adopting in this world... I think that it should be practiced only with the best cause in heart. Everything else would be a waste and misuse. Knowing men, someone will re-create themselves for ****s and giggles with enough money. It needs to be regulated.

[gschroeder78]

IMO, ca18guy said it perfectly. There is just no real use for it. Stem cell research has alot more use and promise and it's getting hardcore bad press. While I think it would be great to lose a leg and then be able to have it reattached, I'd have to have a personal clone in storage (keep in mind it's still a real person), it would have to mature to adulthood (you know to get a good fit), and now you have a real person minus a leg just so that you wouldn't be missing one. It just seems counter productive. Not directed at you S13grl, just using your example. At least with stem cell technology they can possibly grow new organs and whatever else they have planned for it. When you die you die. There are already way too many people on the planet.

Garrett

[jhapa]

they are already cloine body parts, like ears, etc.

[Kreator]

Yes indeed, lets divide the whole population into smart and not so smart, clone all the smart ones and let the not so smart ones die out. What a great world it'll be to live in! The lame part is 99% of us here will fall into the not so smart category :o

[Mark & Irena]

Originally posted by gschroeder78
IMO, ca18guy said it perfectly. There is just no real use for it. Stem cell research has alot more use and promise and it's getting hardcore bad press. While I think it would be great to lose a leg and then be able to have it reattached, I'd have to have a personal clone in storage (keep in mind it's still a real person), it would have to mature to adulthood (you know to get a good fit), and now you have a real person minus a leg just so that you wouldn't be missing one. It just seems counter productive. Not directed at you S13grl, just using your example. At least with stem cell technology they can possibly grow new organs and whatever else they have planned for it. When you die you die. There are already way too many people on the planet.

Garrett

Yes! Stem cell tech is what I was talking about (sorry, don, didn't read your whole post. I've been through a war and seen my 10-14-y-o friends lose their parents and become orphans. That's the only reason why I think it'd be okay to re-produce a whole person. But anyone that knows me will tell you that I'm all about nature and natural things. :)

Irena

[HippoSleek]

I guess this one gets filed with the 1970s cloning scare. Apparently, the raelians aren't willing to allow DNA testing to confirm cloned status. I guess we can have this debate again in a few years when science is actually close ;)

http://www.rael.org/int/english/common_resources/clonaid.jpg

[DamnedButDetermined]

Originally posted by ca18guy

What about cloning "the great minds of society?" Well alot of good that would do, a clone is basically a physical copy not a mental copy. It would be like Enstiens's grandson, he would look identical to him but whos to say he would develope his way of thinking. How many other members of Enstiens family today are genious? Not to mention imagine the pressure and public scrutiny on the poor guy, he would probably go psyco before he was 20. (once again Enstien was the example insert any famous person in his place and it would be similar)


You see everything that you said i fully agree with or partially agree with, but this quoted part is what has got me! Nobody knows for a fact right now, whether or not if einstein was cloned, if he would act the same or be as educated!

I am interested in in making two exact copies at the exact same time. One will go to a certain social class, and the other will go to another social class. Will they still like the same things, foods? have the same emotions? Will one be able to surf as well as the other? Will one have a natural draw to religion, while the other be drawn to atheism? (sp?)

I am only for scientific clonning!!!!!!!!!!

[ca18guy]

Identical twins are more closely related genetically then clones. Yet they don't grow up to be the same exact person.

http://cbsnewyork.com/healthwatch/health_story_363130831.html

[AutoDestruct]

I'm not saying that there will be "clones" or there will not be. or that they would be anything alike. Or even if it is currently feasiable or profitable.
But at some point if it is possible, and I am almost sure that at some point it will be, it will be done whether we want it to be or not. The decisions have already been made for us. Man forges ahead, almost oblivious as to it's real consequences. It is how things are discovered and assimilated into the human specieses collective mind.

Knowledge,science,the mind :)


?evolution? I do not know. and i can't spell either.
:D

[DamnedButDetermined]

CA18Guy,
I read that article, but i just don't understand how they can come to those conclusions without any proof. From what i have learned and can rememer in my science classes, Identical Twins aren't exact replicas. I think they share only like 97% of the same exact DNA, so that can explain this... Studies show that, in general, the correlation between identical twins is strong for height, less strong for IQ, lesser still for weight and then personality, Plomin said.

No one will ever know for sure how clones will behaive until they actually clone one or ten!!!!!!

I just thought of another bad thing about clonning....What if what the experts say are true, IE:the clone will have a different personality than you, and your clone truns into a visious murderer? Since you each have the same DNA, and finger prints you may end up going to jail instead of your clone. This might be another reason why the government won't let clonning take place. Their 100% correct identification techneque will be lost due to multiple people with the same DNA, and finger prints!

"talk amongst yourselves,"
DbD

[AutoDestruct]

Tell you who's not cloning anything though, the damn "realiens". That guy has to be the craziest F*ck I have seen in a long time. :eek: