Is this art?

[hustlervibes]

I'm working on a term project @ Artcenter and I'd just like a few varied opinions. Any sort of response would be greatly appreciated.

First off.... What is your idea of "ART"?
What limitations are drawn on what is art and what isn't?
Are there any guidelines?
Is it worth public funding from the NEA (National Endowment for the Arts)?



Here are a few examples:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh169/iamfreshbot/Term%20Project/dog1.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh169/iamfreshbot/Term%20Project/dog2.jpg

Costa Rican artist Guillermo Habacuc Vargas tethers a starving dog to the corner of his exhibit gallery with dog biscuits just out of reach. The dog remained in the gallery until death, with no water or food to sustain it. His initial statement was that he was doing it in honor of a burgular that had been killed by guard dogs. Following that, he changed his statement so that it was to make people aware of the plight of street dogs in Costa Rica. Here's a video for anyone who might be more interested or want more info.
YouTube - DYING DOG AS ART?!?! Guillermo Vargas Habacuc!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-jIP8i1djg)

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh169/iamfreshbot/Term%20Project/Piss_Christ_by_Serrano_Andres_1987.jpg

Piss Christ is a controversial photograph by American photographer Andres Serrano. It depicts a small plastic crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. The piece was a winner of the Southeastern Center for Contemporary Art's "Awards in the Visual Arts" competition,which is sponsored in part by $15,000 of the tax-payer funded National Endowment for the Arts, a United States Government agency that offers support and funding for artistic projects.

[JVD]

I hate people. Frig. Here, let me shit on a plate and sell it as art.

Fuck off.

[luisgonz]

Art will be art as to Crack is crack to Crackheads. Its just weird fix for those loony people.

[allntrlundrgrnd]

grrr



the dog being killed really makes me angry. I saw this a few months ago and cannot believe nobody intervened.


I could care less about the pee-diving jesus pic. except for the "tax-payer funded" part.

[jdm538]

dang if my mom saw that christ piss thing she would ghave a lot to say about it *negatively*

[RiversideS13]

I think Art is something that can break free of people's imagination and emotionally attach to the viewer somehow. but the boundary is ETHIC.

for example, the "Body world expo" used bodies from China that were prisoners, that is not cool and many school was boycotting the expo. i think when an art become disturbing to other people, that becomes a nasty pollution. like street graffiti, it is cool because it take talent to make; but when it cost us million of dollars to remove, that could become an headache.

i dont know if my statements makes sense.... i am damn tire ...zzz

[BustedS13]

i knew it was going to be the dog thing. snopes has yet to confirm or deny it, but chances are the dog didn't die.

snopes.com: Guillermo Vargas: Dog Starved for Art Exhibit (http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/vargas.asp)

and Piss Christ is art. Andres Serrano does some great stuff. you may recognize some of his other works:

"Blood and Semen III"
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/greystar/metallica-load.jpg

"Piss and Blood"
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/greystar/metallica-reload.jpg

[Pank]

I cant find the article now, but there was an artist who went on stage and shit out an ear of corn.

I know that looks ridiculous, but i swear to god its real. i promise

[Vision Garage]

Kill that guy for starving a dog. Its not art. Its torture. Peta should kick his ass. and the guy who put jesus in piss should get his ass kicked to.

[Agamemnon]

$15,000 just to take a picture of a $1 crucifix soaked in piss! Gov't got hustled!

[DreamN]

I don't consider either art. The dog actually died! WTF? When and how is starving any living being to the point of death art? How sad that they're letting this happen again. I signed the petition and I hope others do as well.

[Pank]

also "is this art?" is the most pointless question ever.
Yes its art, and yes, its horrible.
Just because something is disgusting or cruel or ugly, doesn't mean its not art.

[memo92]

I hate that I share the same first name with Guillermo. I don't think this piece to bring attention to the plight of Costa Rican dogs is good. Some body should have called in Ceasar Millan. Why don't costa ricans take care of their canine problems themselves. Americans care about dogs, as it was proven with the conviction of Micheal Vick for funding dog fights. All this artist wants is to get notariety by doing something contraversial. In my opinion putting this instalment in a gallery is done in poor taste. I can't believe it was allowed.
As for the crusafix it could have been done another way, but it seems that all these artist want to do is shock people. :loco:

[Mr. Camshaft]

I cant find the article now, but there was an artist who went on stage and shit out an ear of corn.

I know that looks ridiculous, but i swear to god its real. i promise

:ugh:








i wanna see :bite:

[GabeS14]

I thought the PISSED OFF CHRIST, looks awesome!
it is actually veery nice, I dont need to know what made the art to know what reaction it causes me.

I am sure anyone who criticized it after knowing it was dipped in pee, would have said it looked cool if they had been presented it in a different manner.

I am not an athiest, but church stuff and morals are fucking bullshit!
now the dog thing just makes me sad, I hate abuse of any kind!

[mRclARK1]

If I saw that dog and his exhibit of that?

Dog would be free and eating and recovering.

He'd be tied in the corner with food just out of reach. I don't care if the dog died or not.

Fuck these people who get away with anything with the excuse it's "art"

So why isn't murder just an "art" form? Or rape? Or child porn? When? Why not? By this logic nothing is wrong under the guise of it's a form of entertainment or display.

What if that was an image of Mohammed in the tank of piss?

Exactly

[S14Josh]

I dislike "Artsy" things.

Not to be confused with true artistic work. Take M. C. Escher for instance. Guy was AMAZING.

I mean artsy things as in, a video of a girl in a bathtub with a single bird feather landing at her feet.

I had to sit through one of those fucking films in school and I asked the most relevant question I could. "What the hell does that even mean?" The fellow student replied "Obviously you don't know art". I said "Obviously you don't either"

What about that video of that dude who drowned himself in the bathtub that was floating around the web for a while? He said his inspiration was some guy shooting his arm off with a 12-gauge shotgun....

Wtf?

I did think the Jesus thing was pretty neat however.

And I laughed really fucking loud when I read the post about shitting the ear of corn on stage.

[murda-c]

why not just go around shooting all the dogs?

problem solved.

Or get them with a spear.

[ericcastro]

These people arent artist. There jokes and would never be noticed for there talent. So these kinds of absurd things are the only way to get any validation.

But they are just hacks. and they just convince other hacks that they are talented.

Morons.

[exitspeed]

I would like to do that to him and see if he thinks it's art.

[HyperLeafBlower]

Anything can be "art" if you take it and present it in such a way. Not that I agree with either of the pieces posted, but whether or not something is art is up to the artist.

[98s14inaz]

Stuff like the examples you gave are not art imho. Artists tread a fine line between genius and insanity. I believe artists that create stuff like your examples are way the fuck over the insanity line and should be heavily medicated and kept away from sharp objects.

Hurting animals and defacing religious symbols is wrong. If I dressed someone up like Mohamed, pushed them to the floor, and took a dump on his chest i'd get burned at the stake but take a piss on a statue of Jesus Christ and it's "genius".

I'd never fit into that artsy fartsy crowd because if something sucks I'm going to tell you about it. That stuff sucks. I'd like to take the artist that did that to the dog and do the same to him. "Look everyone, it's a starving aritst tied in a room, behold my genius." lol

[k's_silvia2.0]

:ugh:My GF is Costa Rican hahaha!
But in all seriousness this to me is very distasteful!!!

[tracks13]

I'll take a dump for you that you can photograph if you pay me one million dollars

[LeftNutOfGowd]

That,s not art art is something you create using your hands or mind not taking pics of dieing animals or people that's shits pathetic

[shade]

I've heard the dog one a while back, fuckin bitch ass artist needs to fuckin die. Someone should tie him up and leave him to starve to death, asshole.

[shmiddy]

with dog biscuits just out of reach

thats fucked up

art or no art

[Dutchmalmiss]

As repulsive as it looks, there's always two sides to a story. Whatever the hell the guy went through to have the mental drive to consider starving a dog being art is pretty damn fucked up. But you know what, I bet it'll be hard to convince those who support it otherwise. I'm very sure 9/11 was a "masterpiece" to some people.

[exitspeed]

As repulsive as it looks, there's always two sides to a story. Whatever the hell the guy went through to have the mental drive to consider starving a dog being art is pretty damn fucked up. But you know what, I bet it'll be hard to convince those who support it otherwise. I'm very sure 9/11 was a "masterpiece" to some people.

Maybe, but that still doesn't make it right.

With that kind of mentality, me walking up to his mom and shooting her in teh face point blank would be beautiful.

That doesn't mean it isn't any less tragic.

[DALAZ_68]

Kill that guy for starving a dog. Its not art. Its torture. Peta should kick his ass. and the guy who put jesus in piss should get his ass kicked to.

Peta is a radical group of idiots...i believe in anmal right, but there should be a limit...


LINK PETA (http://http://youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY)-BULLSHIT



i like how everybody on the net is jumping to say ohh i would have done something or said something, when in reality realuize its the fucken NET...u can say anything here and it doesnt really mean shit unless u actually do it...

do i feel bad for the pup, yes, but hey guess what, hundreds if not thousands of dogs die everyday on the side of the street, what about thoughts and prayers forthem, ohh wait, u didnt know about them, but u know it happens, only reason this is contreversy is because this guy decided to put it in the middle of an exibit and call it art...as fucked up as it sounds, art is left to interpretation, do i personally consider blood and jizsm art? not really, a dog tied down inches from food left to starve? nah... all is left to interpretation

[Dutchmalmiss]

Maybe, but that still doesn't make it right.

With that kind of mentality, me walking up to his mom and shooting her in teh face point blank would be beautiful.

That doesn't mean it isn't any less tragic.

Exactly, he's obviously not "normal" in the head. "Normal" being everyone that thinks that what he did was disgusting.

On a lighter note, I'd say our treatment to noobs on Zilvia is art. :)

[kognition]

Public funding is highly unlikely to happen if the art in question violates any state or federal laws in this country. And starving a poor street dog to death at the expense of furthering one's "artistic" career is pretty F#$king sick.
Piss Christ is over 20 years old, nothing new... and while it does seem to make a mockery of the faith, it doesn't violate any laws and enjoys freedom of expression. Most art that i see trying to make a statement is almost always controversial.

[memo92]

1.Innate expression of creativity 2.The abuse of any living creature 3.No, the mind has no limitations. 4.Hopefully no one in Costa Rica funded Willy's "art".

[Future240]

My idea of art is somethin that expresses your innermost emotions. im my opion a true artist can have a similar with his or her art as they would in a tender moment with a significant other. A true artist cares not about fame, glory, or money, just art.

In the two above examples the dog is not art. That is torture, torture is not art. The artist is more than likely doing it for schock value.

The same goes for the crucifix in pee, I believe the artist chose urine because of the shit it would stir up.

Both of these pieces to me juss say shock value which IMO isnt art.

Some people like art, some don't I for one can appreciate art in a sense of somethn that looks attrative to me, not so much the whole message thing so artists try to pull of.

I dont think the public should have to fund NEA, I think that if a person wanted to fund it they would.

Hope this helps, Good luck with your assignement

[kyoru]

It's hard to label art, but obviously the dog display is not art, like the poster above me said it's just for shock/attention.

[spoolandslide]

it was art every time mike did one of these

http://www.privatjokr.com/media/lowblow.jpg

[Matej]

Ever since I was a kid I was really into art, I used to love to draw on paper and design on my computer, I thought that's what I wanted to do and study after high school, up until my final couple years.
I started seeing what kind of people were associated with art, and when I imagined I'd have to work with and be around people like that, I slowly lost my passion for it.
Everyone thinks their work is the best, every one of their scribbles has some deep hidden meaning behind it, and they all think so highly of themselves, I seriously couldn't stand being around most artists and soon-to-be artists.
I just wanted to create art that's enjoyable to look at, something that people see and say, "wow, that's kind of cool."
That's what art should be in my opinion, it should be something that people want to look at, even if the subject may be bad or morbid or something, but you can tell that a lot of time and effort went into it and people find it impressive, that's art to me.
Most "modern art" is garbage in my opinion. Anyone can draw on a 3rd grade level, or spit on their bathroom mirror and pee in the shower and call it art, and make up twenty hidden meanings behind it.
I can't stand this kind of "art," or most modern art, where you're supposed to see some stupid hidden meaning behind everything without which the "artwork" can't even be enjoyed.
When you ask what it's supposed to be or say that you do not really like it, the artist or some self-proclaimed art expert looks at you like they're better than you and explain all this garbage about why it's "good" and how you just don't understand "art."
Ugghhhh.

I kind of miss being creative though.

[kognition]

Well said, :2f2f:

Ever since I was a kid I was really into art, I used to love to draw on paper and design on my computer, I thought that's what I wanted to do and study after high school, up until my final couple years.
I started seeing what kind of people were associated with art, and when I imagined I'd have to work with and be around people like that, I slowly lost my passion for it.
Everyone thinks their work is the best, every one of their scribbles has some deep hidden meaning behind it, and they all think so highly of themselves, I seriously couldn't stand being around most artists and soon-to-be artists.
I just wanted to create art that's enjoyable to look at, something that people see and say, "wow, that's kind of cool."
That's what art should be in my opinion, it should be something that people want to look at, even if the subject may be bad or morbid or something, but you can tell that a lot of time and effort went into it and people find it impressive, that's art to me.
Most "modern art" is garbage in my opinion. Anyone can draw on a 3rd grade level, or spit on their bathroom mirror and pee in the shower and call it art, and make up twenty hidden meanings behind it.
I can't stand this kind of "art," or most modern art, where you're supposed to see some stupid hidden meaning behind everything without which the "artwork" can't even be enjoyed.
When you ask what it's supposed to be or say that you do not really like it, the artist or some self-proclaimed art expert looks at you like they're better than you and explain all this garbage about why it's "good" and how you just don't understand "art."
Ugghhhh.

I kind of miss being creative though.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

art is anything that is created to envoke feelings/emotion/thought/etc.

well, to me. yada yada yada. i like art etc.


was gonna make a long post but got lazy, and such.

[tracks13]

it was art every time mike did one of these

http://www.privatjokr.com/media/lowblow.jpg


hahahahaha that's awesome. +1 rep

[exitspeed]

I can't believe Lisa hasn't posted about this.

[lonelydrifter]

You can not answer this question. Everyone has their own personal definition of Art. Art is not an absolute truth like numbers or gravity so there is no way to perfectly define it in a way everyone will agree on.

[SimpleSexy180]

i find many weak minded people in here..


I could be talking about people who dont like this art or the people who dont mind this type of art, so think about both.

[mRclARK1]

Some of you who say art is something relative and interpertive to the viewer are right.

But remember this. So if suffering can be art? How about I come get your dog, burn him alive in the street, and take photos of my art and let everyone interpert it in their own way? Alright so sure, to someone it may be art. If we must tolerate your art, then you have to tolerate most people think it's only artwork to a sick fuck.

First a dog... maybe you next?

I'm sure the Holocaust was art to Hitler.

Relativity in morality and toleration is fine with most people in theory, it's another thing when you put it into practice when it affects their life or freedom or the same of the people or things they care about. First we accept senseless torture of an animal...

Yes, right now we're just talking about a dog, and a crucifix. It's the precedent of a line being crossed that I find disturbing. Death can be an art, in the sense of a noble or purposeful death... I see no art in suffering inflicted on something for no reason. I'll never see art in disrespecting someone's religion. No matter which it may be.

Finally... I'm just a big dog lover. I'd fuck nearly anyone up for hurting my dog without cause.

[driftphenom]

to me, art is "an exhiliration of the senses" it could be a fresh apple pie that smells delicious and looks tasty. art can be music that expands your mind (with or without drugs). and visual stimulation. something that makes you think "wow, thats awesome" and no, i dont think anyone looked at a dying maingey dog, or a piss soaked jesus, and went "fuckin A, thats baller". i understand that pushing boundaries is part of an artist's repeteur (sp?), but i think that those artist arent even thinking what they are doing is art, they just want the shock affect. but i guess thats what some people consider art. so who knows. to each his own. but its like anything else. if you dont like it, dont look at it. no such thing as bad press right? p.s. i have a teddy bear thats missing an eye for sale, it symbolizes starvation in ethiopia, $30,000 obo jk

[lucky7]

all i read was teh first post. i think that guys a sick fuck. i cannot belive a gallerie allowed a dog to starve to death in the name of art? thats the most pathetic shit ive ever heard. it makes me sick.

[ESmorz]

Is three girls finger painting themselves with each others poo art?

Idunno

you decide.

[playthe_part]

most of my friends and some family are artists in many different mediums and influences and all of them agreed that the starving dog was not art. sure, what defines art it always, and will always, be interpreted different among people, but lets see it like this..

if some guy is going around different neighborhoods killing peoples animals, or stealing them and letting them starve to death, he will get arrested and probably get mental help. when children kill their pets on purpose, it is recommended to get them help. it isn't interpreted as art, but as soon as that 'artist' decided to label his starving dog as 'art' people went a long with it and forgot about morals.

i find it interesting that when i was into graff i used to worry about being arrested for spray painting something that takes, at max, $100 to fix and people didn't see it as art, but killing a dog is an acceptable art medium.

[The ROMAN]

Art has no definition anymore, so art could be anything. Whether or not there is any meaning or skill or greatness in any of it can't be defined now either though. The whole modern art movement aimed at tearing down artistic traditions and boundaries, letting "art" be anything...ok so now what?? I guess people just make stupid stuff like this forever.

[wrapmeup2005]

I would say that art can be whatever a person wants it to be. Different things can be considered art...cooking, cleaning, organizing, working, music, drawing, basically anything you do could be considered an "art" and could be considered "artistic" by another person. I think drawing the line would be stay within the laws and within ethics. If it involves killing a dog than its not art. I personally don't think it should be funded as a part of the government. Art classes should be taught in public schools but that should be the extent of government funding towards art.

[tattoo131313]

When it comes to art I don't know good from bad. I only know what I like.

[deolio]

the guy that did the starving dog "art" is a douche bag. the people that consider it art are tools or insane.

art is a representation of life as interpreted by the artist. a starving dog is NOT art. it is real life.

the cursifix in the cup is art. not great art, but still is "art". i don't like that the artist exploited the shock value, but someone else probably would have done it anyway.

fucking artsy people piss me off so much. bag of tools

[keistyle]

i agree.. under ALMOST no circumstance should you slowly kill something. god i feel bad for the dog that had to suffer. did that dog even do anything wrong? if so dog whisperer?! anywho the first picture..if it was just a dog sitting there.. not being starved, it could be better,the composition isnt all that good, lighting could be better, and should have used the rule of 3rds

[Bubbles]

I just created art minutes ago in my very own toilet.

I snapped some pics with the digi.


Uploading them now.



:D:D :D:D

[kdashy]

I was never convinced this is real/the dog died.

[ericcastro]

I'm sure the Holocaust was art to Hitler.

maybe not to hitler. think it was more religious to him.

but his fucked up doctors who were cutting peoples arms off and trying to put them on other people without anestetic prolly thought that shit was art.


yes, but hey guess what, hundreds if not thousands of dogs die everyday on the side of the street,

People are raped everyday. incest. beaten . and killed all over the world. Doesnt mean I am going to do any of that stuff and call it art.
But I may mimic it in photography, paintings, movies, to bring the subject manner to light.
If he had taken pictures of starving dogs around cities. Dogs he wouldn't be able to save, then that would be art.
But the fuck doesnt have ANY artistic talent to paint, sculp, draw or photography. so he cant.

So instead, he takes the way of a complete failure and actually does it.

what a HACK!

[DRavenS13]

This isn't art. It's shock value.

It attracts attention, but nothing about either of those pictures is beautiful.

That guy should have his balls chopped off, put out of his reach, with lemon juice and salt dripping from the ceiling.

[GabeS14]

What if that was an image of Mohammed in the tank of piss?

Exactly

but... Mohammed doesnt look good like Jesus...
...........at least not in piss:-/:keke:!

[womenbeshoppin]

No, but this is.
http://gadgets.boingboing.net/gimages/stevenhwakinglego.jpg

[ESmorz]

http://collections.lopolis.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/napkins-wwf.jpg

[DRavenS13]

^^^^Now that's what I call art.

[illvialuver]

i have come to the conclusion that art is in the eye of the beholder