koni yellows with ground control

[kouness]

hi there, I know that this discussion has come up many times already and I did search and read through the thread posted by driftfreeq. Most of those that were mentioned with the gc sleeves and eibach springs were with the 861x's and not with the yellows. Right now i currently have my car sitting on koni yellows with eibach sportlines. Since i already have the yellows, I was wondering if it would go good with ground control coilover kit.. I know that the rears would be fine, but i am more worried about the fronts. The car is just my DD and I will probably not anttend any events.. Right now I have gathered some information on what my setup would consist of:

koni yellows all around

gc coilover kit with everything neccessary for the install

Springs rate: 400/f 300/r

Spring height: 6"/f 7"/r

I know that right now it would be better if I was to go ahead and add a camber kit and pillowball mounts? (Teins or maybe from gc themselves)

Is there anything that i would need to add or be worried about before i purchase? thanks- kouvang

[twistedsymphony]

you're right about being better off getting a camber kit/pillowball mounts.

about the only thing groundcontrol will give you is height adjustability. The people I know that are into motorsports (auto-x, etc.) don't seem to care for the ground control springs namely because they use fixed spring perches.

koni yellows are probably the best shock you can get on a 240 without spending $$$ on a completely custom setup or importing bilsteins or something.

As for springs, figure out EXACTLY what you want and order a set from Hypercoil (hands down the best springs you can buy) they don't make "kits" you just need to spec them out and they'll make them for you. on top of that getting adjustable/teflon-lined pillowball mounts you'll have what's probably the best strut setup on a 240 under $8K

Before anyone get's bent out of shape that I'm not just cheerleading for coilover company X ... a lot of this is my personal opinion based on my experience and having read real world test results, anyone is welcome to disagree.

Personally, it's my feeling that unless you have the equipment to accurately measure what you're adjusting, adjustability only really gives you the ability to adjust it incorrectly. "X number of clicks or turns" doesn't cut it IMO.

[spool_sample]

I know that right now it would be better if I was to go ahead and add a camber kit and pillowball mounts? (Teins or maybe from gc themselves)


If you can get the GC camber plates, do it. They are some of the nicest plates you can get for an S-chassis. Order Datsun 510 plates, they will fit the 240. They are $300 a pair, though... if that sounds like a lot, get eBay camber plates. Avoid Tein front plates like the plague.

For the rears, the Teins are fine.

Keep in mind that even with coilovers, Koni Yellows simply can not go very low... they are way too long and have too little travel on the front. Rears are okay, but if you want the car to be low you'll want to look at something with custom housings...

[turbocrazy07]

Keep in mind that even with coilovers, Koni Yellows simply can not go very low... they are way too long and have too little travel on the front. Rears are okay, but if you want the car to be low you'll want to look at something with custom housings...

How much of a drop are we talking about with this setup? im looking at doing the same thing on my s14. will i have to roll fenders with this setup or no?...

[kouness]

I was just hoping to use the springs that came with the gc kit and have them spec it to where I want it like stiffness and height. Are you saying that ditch the whole gc kit and just get better springs since I already have the koni yellows or replace the eibach springs with the hyperco ones? I read quite a few threads and nobody seemed to have problems with the eibach springs as long as you have them to the right height.

as for the drop.. im not looking to slam the thing.. i just want more drop to cover the wheel gap just a bit more. i dont want the tires to be tucking under the fenders, maybe about half an inch above it more likely. right now i have 225/45/17 on a 17x8 +16 and 255/40/17 on a 17x9 +11.

How good are the camber plates from ebay?

[drift freaq]

you're right about being better off getting a camber kit/pillowball mounts.

about the only thing groundcontrol will give you is height adjustability. The people I know that are into motorsports (auto-x, etc.) don't seem to care for the ground control springs namely because they use fixed spring perches.

koni yellows are probably the best shock you can get on a 240 without spending $$$ on a completely custom setup or importing bilsteins or something.

As for springs, figure out EXACTLY what you want and order a set from Hypercoil (hands down the best springs you can buy) they don't make "kits" you just need to spec them out and they'll make them for you. on top of that getting adjustable/teflon-lined pillowball mounts you'll have what's probably the best strut setup on a 240 under $8K

Before anyone get's bent out of shape that I'm not just cheerleading for coilover company X ... a lot of this is my personal opinion based on my experience and having read real world test results, anyone is welcome to disagree.

Personally, it's my feeling that unless you have the equipment to accurately measure what you're adjusting, adjustability only really gives you the ability to adjust it incorrectly. "X number of clicks or turns" doesn't cut it IMO.

Ah dude, did you just step off the I am a cheap Honda owner bandwagon?

The Eibach spring setup from Ground Control comes with Adjustable perches. That is if you install them right, unlike most Honda owners and dumb 240 owners who just put the collars on top of stock spring perches. If you do it right you knock off the stock spring perch and replace with the collar with the adjustable perch.

Ok now that we have dispelled that myth coming out of your mouth. Koni yellows are good. You can actually set them up to go decently low as well. What you do lose is shorter stroke because they are designed for a relatively stock setup. Its why most of us get 86xx series Koni'. Which are not that expensive contrary to most peoples beliefs. Putting in a set of 86xx' series in front, is no different than putting in a Koni Yellow up front they are both inserts. Its pretty much a matter of shorter stroke allowing more optimum range lowered. Also If you make new housings you can set the collar anchor lower giving you another inch of lowering of capability.
In the rear he could go with a Eclipse rear. Which is externally adjustable and is a complete shock body i.e. not a insert.. Truth be told unless he is craving external adjustability in the rear most people set their rears and forgot. Oh and the Koni Yellow in the rear with collars will go plenty low, on our cars. Its usually the fronts people have issues with, and to be honest people are finally starting to realize, totally slammed does not mean it will handle better.

As far as Eibach springs go. They are good springs. Yes Hypercoils are the best. Though both Eibach and Hypercoil are used in top motorsports on winning cars. Its completely a users decision.

There is actually a shop in California as well that sells a Hypercoil and collar setup for Koni's. :D So again your wrong about there being no collar setups for Hypercoils.

Oh by the way I am not bent out of shape here. I just dislike when people post stuff as gospel without doing the research. I know you stated its your opinion but you posted your supposed facts and then made the opinion statement.

[kouness]

How much of a drop are we talking about with this setup? im looking at doing the same thing on my s14. will i have to roll fenders with this setup or no?...

From reading from there site, it should give you 0-2 inch drop. Fender rolling depends on your wheel and tire setup, it really has nothing to do with how low you are. If you have lower offset wheels, bigger tires/wheel width then you might have to roll them. If you are on stock rims and tires or more conservative with the offsets and what not then you should be fine.

[twistedsymphony]

Ah dude, did you just step off the I am a cheap Honda owner bandwagon?
I don't know where you got that impression... I've never owned a FF car in my life let alone a Honda. my last car was a 2002 WRX that I auto-xed for 2 years. I got into 240s because I wanted something light and RWD
http://solid-orange.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/front2.jpg
http://solid-orange.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/rear.jpg

come on now... I wasn't trying to be rude, no need to insult me by calling me a Honda owner :-/


The Eibach spring setup from Ground Control comes with Adjustable perches. That is if you install them right, unlike most Honda owners and dumb 240 owners who just put the collars on top of stock spring perches. If you do it right you knock off the stock spring perch and replace with the collar with the adjustable perch.

I don't think you understand what I'm talking about... by "fixed" I don't mean "non-adjustable" I even said in my post that you get adjustability with the GC set...

maybe this image will help you understand what I'm trying to say:

http://farnorthracing.com/newimages/why_coax.jpg

^AFAIK the GC set doesn't do that, it just uses an OEM style bushing setup which puts bending stress on your shocks (maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I got talking with a few people that own them and looking on the GC website). A setup that puts bending pressure on the shocks can cause them to bind/wear out the seals early or at very least, not work as well as they should. Not trying to be an ass just trying to explain where I was coming from, I realize now that I was a bit vague in my post when I said "fixed", sorry.

I agree that Eibach springs are good, I ran them on my last car and loved them. However I assumed that they OP wanted something different since he had them and wanted something different, which is why I recommended they Hypercoils.

Also I had no idea that there was some place that sold 240 specific hypercoil setups... good to know, I'll have to look them up as I'd love to get a set for my car :D

[spool_sample]

maybe this image will help you understand what I'm trying to say:

http://farnorthracing.com/newimages/why_coax.jpg



That's not really a problem with GC stuff if you run camber plates properly. The picture is question, as far as I know, is only applicable to cars with double A-arm front suspensions (Hondas, 2nd gen DSMs, etc). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

My Konis are like this:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/fullboost14/IMG_0190.jpg

Note that the camber plate is spaced away from the top hat. I can assure you that the bearing inside the plate has full range of motion and does not put funky forces on the strut rod.

GC's own camber plate design is a lot lower profile and comes with its own special top hats.

[fbiphil]

I've run GC setups on my 510s in the past, and their camber plates are AMAZING! They have a pillow ball like most others, but the upper spring hat rides on a contoured area that is recessed into the plate, preventing bind as the suspension cycles. Then, they have a plate that goes between the spring hat and that area that rides on roller bearings so there is no bind as you steer- very trick, and very smooth!
They aren't cheap, but you TOTALLY get what you pay for here!

I didn't realize that the 510 plates would fit on a 240- funny, since I've had both apart side by side... just never even thought to check!

[drift freaq]

I don't know where you got that impression... I've never owned a FF car in my life let alone a Honda. my last car was a 2002 WRX that I auto-xed for 2 years. I got into 240s because I wanted something light and RWD
http://solid-orange.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/front2.jpg
http://solid-orange.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/rear.jpg

come on now... I wasn't trying to be rude, no need to insult me by calling me a Honda owner :-/



I don't think you understand what I'm talking about... by "fixed" I don't mean "non-adjustable" I even said in my post that you get adjustability with the GC set...

maybe this image will help you understand what I'm trying to say:

http://farnorthracing.com/newimages/why_coax.jpg

^AFAIK the GC set doesn't do that, it just uses an OEM style bushing setup which puts bending stress on your shocks (maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I got talking with a few people that own them and looking on the GC website). A setup that puts bending pressure on the shocks can cause them to bind/wear out the seals early or at very least, not work as well as they should. Not trying to be an ass just trying to explain where I was coming from, I realize now that I was a bit vague in my post when I said "fixed", sorry.

I agree that Eibach springs are good, I ran them on my last car and loved them. However I assumed that they OP wanted something different since he had them and wanted something different, which is why I recommended they Hypercoils.

Also I had no idea that there was some place that sold 240 specific hypercoil setups... good to know, I'll have to look them up as I'd love to get a set for my car :D

Well excuse me for calling you a Honda owner. LOL its just lately most people getting into 240's are Honda owners and a lot of the Honda owners that run Ground Controls or other brands of collared sleeves tend to put them on wrong.
Now as far as your wording goes? Indeed your choice of words was poor and misleading. If you had stated fixed tophats with the factory top mounts then we would have known what you were trying to say. A little correct explanation goes a long way away from the road of misunderstanding.

Now had you said that to begin with? I would have told you the same thing Spool Sample did as its pretty common knowledge. In fact like Spool Sample said Ground Control sells their Camber plates with tops that pretty much eliminates the issue your talking about. If not you can always use someone else's. It is interesting the people you knew in AutoX and track stuff were not aware of this either. Especially since there are several members on here that are in Canada and on the east coast that Auto Cross and have Koni setups. They all have adapted a Camber plate setup.
Oh well its good to see people talking about this stuff and wanting to do it. As in my opinion most Japanese coilovers suck in the dampening department.

[RPSil13]

this is a little off topic, but if anyone could suggest, either via pm or on this thread, the best place to buy springs and shocks, it would be greatly appreciated, i tried searching online but was wondering if maybe there was a particular site everyone on zilvia used
thanks

[twistedsymphony]

Now had you said that to begin with? I would have told you the same thing Spool Sample did as its pretty common knowledge. In fact like Spool Sample said Ground Control sells their Camber plates with tops that pretty much eliminates the issue your talking about. If not you can always use someone else's. It is interesting the people you knew in AutoX and track stuff were not aware of this either. Especially since there are several members on here that are in Canada and on the east coast that Auto Cross and have Koni setups. They all have adapted a Camber plate setup.
Oh well its good to see people talking about this stuff and wanting to do it. As in my opinion most Japanese coilovers suck in the dampening department.

I completely agree on the Japanese coilover thing... it's refreshing to hear from someone else... usually if I nay-say tein/hks/whatever people jump all over me about how awesome they are because that's what they use. :jerkit:

What Spool Sample posted definitely looks like a proper and awesome setup, I must say that it doesn't look like what I've seen of GC setups before but then again I haven't looked at them for a few years and when I did it was a setup on an eclipse. I guess I was mistaken about the GC stuff.

I do stand by my original opinion that camber plates will do more for the OP than replacing the springs... though it wont help him get it any lower... really he should be doing both ;)

not to go off-topic but while I've got some people who actually know what they're talking about in this thread why do you think of this project: http://ryanizer.blogspot.com/2008/07/bilsteins-for-s14s.html

lamenting the lack of Bilstein support for the 240 in the US hes retrofitting Mitsubishi 3000GT Bilsteins for his S14.

[yudalicious]

this is the set up that I want to do (I'm not 100% sure on the fronts, already have used rear yellows), and those were the rates I was thinking of too, except now I wanna bump the rear up to 325 possibly.

For an s14, I was under the impression that a 7" rear spring may be too short (I myself was thinking about 8"), I've read that it will sit at the very top of the GC sleeve (on a koni yellow for s14) at a reasonable height (meaning you won't be able to raise the car if you for any reason wanted to). Spool_sample actually said in his old set up the 7" spring would come loose if your rear tire was off the ground or if you somehow catch air, so another factor to consider.

[kouness]

I do stand by my original opinion that camber plates will do more for the OP than replacing the springs... though it wont help him get it any lower... really he should be doing both ;)


I am thinking that you misunderstood me here. The information I provided for the spring setup is the setup that I am thinking of ordering when I do order the ground control coil over kit. I do believe that they allow you to choose your own spring rates and height, am I correct? I am really not looking to just purchase a set of springs. I did mention in my original post that I am running on Eibach Sportslines for my current setup and I wanted to switch over to something that I can adjust the ride height. I also know that I will be needing the camber kit as well.. The reason why I posted the spring rates and heights are because I would like those who do know the specs to help enlighten me.. thanks- kouvang