Exhaust shite

[Kreator]

I rolled up to my favorite meineke place (they do mandrel bends <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>) and talked with the guy for a while about stuff i will need to make my car run after i turbo it.

Basicly he said he'll cover the whole exhaust part from the turbo for $600. That includes dp, flex pipe and the piping itself (i provide high flow cat and the muffler). He said he'll give me a discount and said he'll do it for $525.

Now several questions:
1. Does the price sound reasonable?
2. The flex pipe part... I looked underneath the car on the way to work but ofcourse didn't see anything. So i decided to go the easy route and ask the noobie question: do our cars have flex pipes stock? I remember seeing something resembling it when i was taking the engine apart but i don't remember if it actually looked like a flex pipe.
3. Now, no matter the answer to #2, is it damn necessary to run the flex pipe? Yeah, i know it protects the piping from cracking when the engine shakes, but what are the rubber hangers for then?
4. Last one, for the sr people <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> again arising from the flex pipe shit, i remembered that sr dps don't have a flex pipe part. Now the catbacks if iirc don't have one either. Which leads me to the question, do you guys run the system without the flex pipe? And if yes, how do you like it? Is it breaking or anything?

[adey]

Unfortunately, I can't really comment on any of these except your little issue with the flex pipe.
From what I've seen and can tell just by looking at photos of cars and of exhausts, when swapping out a whole turbo-back exhaust, people generally do not have a flex pipe.
That said, I don't even recall seeing anything of the sort on our stock KAs. Then again, I've never taken a KA out, so I may be mistaken.

What will help though, is replacing your stock engine mounts with nismo polyurethane units, or similar stiffer mounts; it will transmit a little more rattle/shake to the passenger compartment, but should help with a rattling exhaust.

[ridebmx]

yeah out motors dont have flex pipes, for some reason i want to say that mostly fwd and mid engine have it, or atleast from what ive seen being around my dads yard, but there might be exceptions....

[uiuc240]

Flex pipes are used *mostly* on cars with transversely mounted engines. &nbsp;In the case of the S-chassis, the downpipe mounts to the outlet of the turbo, and then down below it mounts to the tranny. &nbsp;Plenty of support. &nbsp;The whole system is very rigid, as the motor/turbo/exhaust/tranny all move as a single piece. &nbsp;The rest is supported by rubber hangers.

Personally, I think you're going to go to a lot of hassle for a not-so-special system. &nbsp;Keep in mind that the aftermarket systems are predesigned, with all the proper bolt holes and hangers. &nbsp;Also, they are all either coated mild steel, or stainless. &nbsp;If you get regular mild steel, it will rust almost overnight.

For the money you're talking about spending, you could have a Greddy downpipe and a basic N1 exhaust. &nbsp;I'm not saying this is the setup you want (looks are up to you), but I'm just suggesting that you'll be getting a guaranteed performer. &nbsp;Who knows what this guy will create...I've seen LAME stuff from muffler shops (too many bends/pipes, etc.)

Just my $.02

Eric

[ruf]

I can get you the new GP Sports Spec D Pro catback exhaust and a downpipe (HKS, Greddy, Blitz) for $600-650, so why bother?

Spec D Pro has 3" piping, 6" can, 4" titanium burnt edge tip and internal spiral silencer so it drops dB without sacrificing too much flow.

[Kreator]

Why bother?
2 reasons
1. I don't like a single catback on the market today
2. The SR downpipes have to be adjusted for the setup since i'm running a turbo ka. It's not gonna fit just cuz my turbo in the different place than the sr. Plus i need a 2.5" dp not a 3"

eric, the rusting part... you are talking about just the outside rust or the rust that will eat out the exhaust and make it leak? If it's the first one, i don't really care about it...

If someone finds me a 2.5" catback with a muffler that has dual 2.5" tips, id buy it right away. It's just that i never saw anything like that.

[ThanatosZ]

Well if he's good at hangers i can see why you'd consider it. &nbsp;But generally a pre-fab catback exhaust is better. and btw why do you want to go 2.5? &nbsp;I'd go with ruf's offer and then pay the guy to make a turbo extension going from the turbo to the downpipe.. &nbsp;For example my friend went with a custom turbo back, and now has to use utility zip ties to keep the exhaust from rubbing against the driveshaft. &nbsp;It's all about how its hung.. Titanium burnt tip.. how can you pass that up? &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/huh2.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':huh2:'>

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Dec. 10 2002,08:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why bother?
2 reasons
1. I don't like a single catback on the market today
2. The SR downpipes have to be adjusted for the setup since i'm running a turbo ka. It's not gonna fit just cuz my turbo in the different place than the sr. Plus i need a 2.5" dp not a 3"

eric, the rusting part... you are talking about just the outside rust or the rust that will eat out the exhaust and make it leak? If it's the first one, i don't really care about it...

If someone finds me a 2.5" catback with a muffler that has dual 2.5" tips, id buy it right away. It's just that i never saw anything like that.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Have you looked at all the JDM choices? &nbsp;Kakimoto is just one name that comes to mind when looking for *understated* exhausts. &nbsp;Check www.takakaira.com for this.

As for the mild steel action. &nbsp;It will oxidize on the outer surface at first. &nbsp;But then, with exposure to heat, cool, and the weather, it will rust further. &nbsp;This exhaust will NOT last forever. &nbsp;OEM exhausts are galvanized...will yours be? &nbsp;Coated? &nbsp;No? &nbsp;See if you can get the guy to do full stainless. &nbsp;Now THAT would be pimp. &nbsp;From the turbo outlet all the way to the bumper....wow.

BTW, I forgot that you were doing a KA+T, otherwise I wouldn't have suggested getting a prefab downpipe.

Oh, one more thing...with a KA, 2.5" is already a good size for piping...with the addition of turbo, you *need* 3".

Eric

[Jeff240sx]

You are getting had for $525, plus muffler that will cost nearly $200. &nbsp;
Like I have said, the sr20det downpipe will replace from the end of your header to your resonator. &nbsp;It will remove the cat, and a couple feet of piping. &nbsp;You could honestly bolt uo the 3" sr20det downpipe to your STOCK motor, and gain power from not having a cat. &nbsp;Since the sr20det downpipe is that close, you could cut off the flange from your header and weld that to a steel custom downpipe. &nbsp;Then figure out where the pre-fabbed exhaust systems start from. &nbsp;If they start at the resonator, you're set. &nbsp;Then you cut off the muffler, sell it on Ebay as new, and get one you want welded up. &nbsp;That is what I'd do if I honestly couldn't grow to like an exhaust. &nbsp;
On that note... why do you need flex pipe and where would it go? &nbsp;Flex pipe would cause a lot of backpressure and generally suck for the turbo. &nbsp;
Finally... I have $190 in the exhaust side of my turbo (no exhaust system, but turbo dp and sr20det downpipe). &nbsp;With another $400, I could get a lot of exhaust systems via groupbuys, and have 3" turboback exhaust for only $75 more than a custom "who knows what you'll get" exhaust.
-Jeff

[Kreator]

The outlet of my turbo is 2 1/4. i really see no reason for running anything larger than 2.5

I dunnow, couldn't find kakimoto on takakaira. The only kakimoto for s14 is saw was the one jspec sells. It's single tipped, and $350 used. Now imagining the price of the brand new one + shipping from japan.... i don't think i really wonna go that far.

Unfortunately he can't do stainless steel, but i'll ask <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

ruf man, when i was posting this i knew someone would come in here and make a smart ass lame comment. I just thought it'd be some newbie, not someone who was on here for a while. I didn't ask "should i do custom or get a system". I asked a specific question about what i was about to do. I knew people would come in hear and try to make me get a full catback. But flaming me for gettting a custom exhaust? If someone was making a decently cheap (undet $500) stock looking exhaust for my car, i wouldn'tve even been thinking about custom. But i hate the way imports aftermarket exhausts look. And no, i'm not cheap. Although i don't really see a point of spending tons of money on an exhaust.

I would consider a system that has dual tips less than or equal to 3" and single tip less than or equal to 3.5"

eric, are there any ways to coat the mild steel exhaust to protect it from rusting?

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ Dec. 10 2002,11:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are getting had for $525, plus muffler that will cost nearly $200. &nbsp;
Like I have said, the sr20det downpipe will replace from the end of your header to your resonator. &nbsp;It will remove the cat, and a couple feet of piping. &nbsp;You could honestly bolt uo the 3" sr20det downpipe to your STOCK motor, and gain power from not having a cat. &nbsp;Since the sr20det downpipe is that close, you could cut off the flange from your header and weld that to a steel custom downpipe. &nbsp;Then figure out where the pre-fabbed exhaust systems start from. &nbsp;If they start at the resonator, you're set. &nbsp;Then you cut off the muffler, sell it on Ebay as new, and get one you want welded up. &nbsp;That is what I'd do if I honestly couldn't grow to like an exhaust. &nbsp;
On that note... why do you need flex pipe and where would it go? &nbsp;Flex pipe would cause a lot of backpressure and generally suck for the turbo. &nbsp;
Finally... I have $190 in the exhaust side of my turbo (no exhaust system, but turbo dp and sr20det downpipe). &nbsp;With another $400, I could get a lot of exhaust systems via groupbuys, and have 3" turboback exhaust for only $75 more than a custom "who knows what you'll get" exhaust.
-Jeff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well the muffler and the high flow carsound cat cost me $100 altogether.

I was really thinking about doing what you were advising. But what would be the price of the the cheapest catback system with 2.5" piping and a muffler that isn't angled? I have a dual outlet muffler and i want it coming out straight just like the stock one.

As for the flex pipe, that was exactly what i was asking. Now he said it costs $150, so subtract that from $525 and we are at $375. Now that's $225 cheaper than what you will end up with, but i'm willing to spend that money for a performance exhaust if i like the way it looks.

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">eric, are there any ways to coat the mild steel exhaust to protect it from rusting?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

You could have him make the whole system, then take it out, and prime it, then shoot it with multiple coats of the Rustoleum BBQ paint. &nbsp;The black high-temp stuff. &nbsp;And then make sure to reconnect the ground strap next to the cat (it's to help curb rusting).

Eric

[Kreator]

Ok, right now i'm thinking i'll get a after turbo till after cat piping from the guy. Stock exhaust afterwords.... Then see my choices and select a decent cheap system to cut off the muffler and weld mine on.

Now along these lines, which aftermarket exhausts come out straight (not angled)? Tanabe Medallion? GP Sports? Is it poissible to bend them out a bit so the piping comes out straight out?

[uiuc240]

Now THAT is a waste of money. Don't do that. If you're going to have him bend pipes, have him bend all the pipes. The catback stuff isn't THAT hard anyway...show him pics of other cars so he can get an idea of the routing. He should be able to do the rest.

Found this:

Mongoose Exhaust (http://www.hyperformancedirect.co.uk/mongoose_system_prices1.htm#Nissan)

Forge Motorsport (http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/200SX.asp?cat=200SX&catalog=200SXEXH)

UK companies. Mongoose is full turbo-back, stainless exhaust with dual tips. You can blow me later <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'>

Eric

[Kreator]

What exactly is a waste of money? Getting him to make me a dp? Well i have to get that done anyways, so i have to get it somewhere. Buying an exhaust and then cutting off the muffler? I can sell the muffler on ebay and cover the expenses of getting a different muffler.

Sorry, but the mongoose thing doesn't really help. If you check the key, the K muffler tip means dual 3.5" tips <= that's what n1 dual has and i don't really like that look. I emailed the guys at Forge about theirs see what they say.

I remember seeing one site that did custom exhausts of stainless steel, but i can't find their site anymore. They would take a muffler and whatever from you, and make u a catback out of stainless steel.

[uiuc240]

I was referring to buying an exhaust system and cutting off the muffler. &nbsp;Have you considered maybe buying one, and at least bolting it on before you decide to get rid of it? &nbsp;In any case, I just think that route is silly. &nbsp;If you're having him make you the DP and whatnot, just have him do the rest too.

Have you checked to see if Thermal Research and Development has a KA 240 exhaust yet?? &nbsp;Their ish is NICE.

Eric

[Kreator]

no, thermal doesn't do any catbacks yet. I'm kinda considering tanabe medallion since it has a 4" tip and is not slanted, but havent' seen a picture fo it on an s14 yet though <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

How long do you think a meieneke exhaust will last?

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Dec. 10 2002,5:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How long do you think a meieneke exhaust will last?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
prolly about 2 years.

what if you get the stainless piping and bring it to him? &nbsp;does he have the capability of welding stainless? &nbsp;type in 3" Stainless Steel Pipe in Google and there are like 250 places to get it from.

or just paint it like I suggested...

Eric

[Kreator]

I asked him before, iirc he said he can't weld stainless. So i probably end up doing what you said. But i'll go over there tomorrow again, and talk to him some more about all this.

[uiuc240]

Good plan. &nbsp;But bring your BS meter. &nbsp;Don't let him tell you things like this:

"It'll flow better than anything you can just buy off the shelf"
"It won't rust"
"You don't need a resonator"
"You need a flex pipe"
"You don't need 3" piping"
"This is going to hang really low...are you sure you want 3"?"

The reality of these statements should be obvious (by the way, you DO want a resonator in the midpipe...it will be hideously loud without it).

Eric

[Kreator]

Hehe, well i heard 2 of those already, and 1 opposite.
He told me i don't need a resonator and he did tell me i needed a flex pipe. On the other hand he did advise me to get a 3" piping.

Thinking about it though... we figured out about the flex pipe. about the resonator though... is it really that important even on the turbo car?

[Jeff240sx]

Either resonator or silencers on your exhaust. &nbsp;It won't sound very nice without either one. &nbsp;
-Jeff

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Dec. 10 2002,7:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">about the resonator though... is it really that important even on the turbo car?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
It will be boomy on the highway and raspy all the time. &nbsp;That's one of the reasons ricemobiles sound like they do. &nbsp;90% of the modded Hondas you see that have a bigazz tip on the back do NOT have an engineered exhaust system. &nbsp;They have a Meineke special, with just a straight pipe all the way from the cat to the N1 universal can on the ass.

And no, the turbo won't negate the need for one. &nbsp;Even the very most "power-oriented" exhausts from Japan have at least an inline resonator (looks like a little torpedo).

Eric