Buying a tig welder. Questions

[onepuff]

Ok i've been asking about these welders in the fabrication forum but i don't want to fill it up with my noob questions.Here's the two i'm looking at.

http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=30-571-507&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=30-581-039&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0

So the Miller machine comes with the cables and everything and torch the Lincoln does not. The Lincoln is quite a bit smaller than the Miller machine. The Lincoln has a lot of features(not that i know a whole lot about them). The Miler machine doesn't seem to have a lot of adjustment from what i could tell. I'm also not sure if the Miller machine does AC for welding aluminum. If anyone knows more about these let me know.

Also they are not tested but they have a 30 day warranty. Great deals though if they work.

[claymans13]

Normally I'd go with Miller over Lincoln. I have a Lincoln MIG and love it, but I'm looking at a Miller Econotig, but in this case, I'd probably do Lincoln cuz it sounds like it has more options, and its square wave from what I can see. Plus that miller looks like it runs off 3 phase power, which if you're buying this for home use, you probably won't be able to facilitate its power requirements.

[atutt]

I use Lincolns everyday. I've used them for a long time. There is nothing wrong with their TIG's unless you're really picky and like getting into the hardcore details.

Even though I use Lincolns everyday, I would go with a Miller any day of the week.

I find Millers are far more reliable and are easier to use. I personally think their technologies are better too.

I tend to find you get more for money when you buy a Miller vs. Lincoln.

As far as those two go. I can't see an AC function on the Miller. So get the Lincoln. If you ever get a new one. Get a Miller.

But seriously.
If you don't know a whole lot about welders and welding. Don't get a 300 amp machine. You'll be blowing breakers like there's no tomorrow... Plus, it's more advanced than you'll know what to do with.

Just my opinion.

[steve_o1989]

I agree that the features will be more than you will probably be able to handle, but when it comes down the the price, you can't go wrong. It makes more sense to me too buy a machine for $400 that you are really going to have to learn vs. something that will be a little more friendly but is going to cost you $2000.

[atutt]

^I agree with that too. However you can find less advanced welders for less than $400. And it'll most likely end up being something he could use fully.

[steve_o1989]

Just curious where you are finding these less advance welders for under $400? Im asking because I would love to find a TIG for that price to start fucking around with. That is assuming that it is actually a decent tig, and not an inverter like you would find at Can Tire, or Princess Auto.

[atutt]

Inverters are incredible. Just not the ones at CT, lol.

I've found deals via people I know, super shopper, and online places like kijiji.
You just have to look around.

[steve_o1989]

I used to work at princess auto and I was actually pretty impressed with the inverter. I would always go into the welding room and play around with it, and for $348.88 its not a bad deal. Then you need to add on another $160 for the tig torch, and $150 for a tank, so $700 said and done. The thing I don't like about them is that you can't adjust the amperage on the torch, or with a pedal. It takes more amperage to start the arc then it does to maintain it, so it was usually welding hot. Then if you turn it down to the correct amperage, it is a pain in the ass to get the weld going.

[slw240sx]

if those old machines are still in working order then they proably will be a great cheap entry level machine for you. i have a 3K + lincoln precision tig and i am thinking about making a drive up there this month to pick up one or two of those machines to play with and have as backups and to put to use in some production welding of some new parts we just started making.

jon

[onepuff]

I'm not totally noob when it comes to welding. I've started to get decent with the mig. I just like to do my own fab work and having stuff tig'd together at $50/hr or so gets expensive. If i can get a tig machine for $400 that i will probably never max out it's hard for me to pass it by. My dad knows a bit more about welding so i won't be all alone trying to figure things out. We can learn things the hard way together. there seems to be plenty of info on the web as far as tips and help learning to tig it will just take some practice as everything does.

Thanks for everyone's input.
Also why would i be blowing breakers? Not being a smartass just curious what causes it.

[steve_o1989]

If the machine needs to draw more amps from your breaker than it can handle, you may blow it. Some welders will require a higher amperage input than others. I have heard (dont know if it true) that some of the older welders need as much as 100amps input. I think you will most likely be fine with say a 50amp breaker, maybe even 30, depending on how much the welder requires.

[atutt]

Just giving you a heads up. If you're new to Tig welding, TIG welding is going to cost you a fair amount of money... I bought my TIG for $400 and it's gonna cost me about $500 to get it started and have the proper tools to do it. It may even cost me more.

[onepuff]

Yea i figure there will be more money involved to get it up and running. Are most torches and foot controls universal or are they specific to each machine. I think i'll try and steal the torch and foot pedal off of the Miller machine to use with the Lincoln machine if they are. Hopefully i can work that out with the salesman for a decent price. I would like to be able to do aluminum so i think i'm gonna go with the Lincoln there.

[slw240sx]

like i said if you pay 400$ for a good working tig thats over 200amps and even better could do AC work, its a good deal no matter what. I would have loved to find that kind of deal. I paid over 2K and some change on it and i didn't even know how to weld ahaha. i learned in a few weeks and honed the skill after about 3-6months with out much experienced help.

[atutt]

Yea i figure there will be more money involved to get it up and running. Are most torches and foot controls universal or are they specific to each machine. I think i'll try and steal the torch and foot pedal off of the Miller machine to use with the Lincoln machine if they are. Hopefully i can work that out with the salesman for a decent price. I would like to be able to do aluminum so i think i'm gonna go with the Lincoln there.

I think most are universal. Don't quote me on that as I am not 100% sure. I've never needed to check that out.

like i said if you pay 400$ for a good working tig thats over 200amps and even better could do AC work, its a good deal no matter what. I would have loved to find that kind of deal. I paid over 2K and some change on it and i didn't even know how to weld ahaha. i learned in a few weeks and honed the skill after about 3-6months with out much experienced help.


I won't argue that.

However, some people are naturally good at welding. Regardless of yesars of experience. Some just pick it up really quickly. Like myself. Check out my first ever overhead and verticle ups in the fab thread. They're not the greatest but for a first time ever they ain't bad, lol.

Even if you think you are good (based on appearance of the welds), you may or may not have the proper penetration. It's always good to seek some professional level of advice.
That wasn't directed directly at you slw240sx. It's just a general comment based on the amounts of 'tards I've seen who claim they can weld. When in fact their welds are about as great as a wet paper bag full of monkey shit.

[supportTHEezln]

At my old work I used to use some watercooled Miller, but our head welder loved the little air cooled Lincoln we had. Sorry, I don't remember any model numbers - but he liked the Lincoln because the torch was significantly lighter. Just throwing that out there.

[S14DB]

I like the Lincoln's, But I do get a discount on them. Only thing I would change is to get an aftermarket venturi tip. Their new machines have the tips, but I dunno how old that machine is.

[slw240sx]

I think most are universal. Don't quote me on that as I am not 100% sure. I've never needed to check that out.




I won't argue that.

However, some people are naturally good at welding. Regardless of yesars of experience. Some just pick it up really quickly. Like myself. Check out my first ever overhead and verticle ups in the fab thread. They're not the greatest but for a first time ever they ain't bad, lol.

Even if you think you are good (based on appearance of the welds), you may or may not have the proper penetration. It's always good to seek some professional level of advice.
That wasn't directed directly at you slw240sx. It's just a general comment based on the amounts of 'tards I've seen who claim they can weld. When in fact their welds are about as great as a wet paper bag full of monkey shit.


haha i know all about that. I hired someone with tig schooling and certs from a career school. we had him weld up a turbo kit header of one of our production parts, we hit it with a hammer and the welds flaked off. he was let go shortly after.

i actually had my first weld failure in a long time last week. it was a log manifold i rushed to finish in a 24hour start to finish turbo miata build. i was quite ashamed. in the 3 or so years ive been building turbo parts it was like my third ever failure of a manifold.

[onepuff]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm gonna go pick one up next Friday when my dad gets back in town. The Lincoln doesn't come with a torch but i found torches in the $100-$150 range. Foot pedal i found for around $200. The foot pedal isn't necessary just to test the machine out correct. How about gas? I know the weld will be shitty but i shouldn't need it to make sure the machine works, right?

I also saw this one there. It looks like it comes complete with everything. Just a little older i think and from what i found about it it pulls a lot of amps. Doesn't seem very efficient. Let me know what you think about this one.

http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=21-171-006&searchtable=1&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=1

[slw240sx]

i belive thats similar to the one Bill over at DSG uses. linde is a Ohio company i believe. Airgas just bought them out.

you will need a foot pedal to test it. you will also need gas to weld with. you can hit up airgas and pay about 90-120 for a 1 or 5 year bottle lease. refills should be around 50-60$ and thats a large bottle. you could probably get away with a small or medium bottle which is cheaper.

[atutt]

haha i know all about that. I hired someone with tig schooling and certs from a career school. we had him weld up a turbo kit header of one of our production parts, we hit it with a hammer and the welds flaked off. he was let go shortly after.

i actually had my first weld failure in a long time last week. it was a log manifold i rushed to finish in a 24hour start to finish turbo miata build. i was quite ashamed. in the 3 or so years ive been building turbo parts it was like my third ever failure of a manifold.

Dont' worry about it to much. A single failed weld or piece work once every few years isn't bad, lol.

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm gonna go pick one up next Friday when my dad gets back in town. The Lincoln doesn't come with a torch but i found torches in the $100-$150 range. Foot pedal i found for around $200. The foot pedal isn't necessary just to test the machine out correct. How about gas? I know the weld will be shitty but i shouldn't need it to make sure the machine works, right?

I also saw this one there. It looks like it comes complete with everything. Just a little older i think and from what i found about it it pulls a lot of amps. Doesn't seem very efficient. Let me know what you think about this one.

http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=21-171-006&searchtable=1&sortExpression=wbprice&SortASC=Yes&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=1

i belive thats similar to the one Bill over at DSG uses. linde is a Ohio company i believe. Airgas just bought them out.

you will need a foot pedal to test it. you will also need gas to weld with. you can hit up airgas and pay about 90-120 for a 1 or 5 year bottle lease. refills should be around 50-60$ and thats a large bottle. you could probably get away with a small or medium bottle which is cheaper.

^Like he said.

You definately need the gas, foot pedal, and don't forget a flowmeter/regulator. Each type of gas has it's own regulator. And that regulator will only fit on the specific bottle and type of gas it's designed for. At least that's how it is up here in Canada eh.

Advice on a foot pedal:
Get a heavy and bulky one. This is personal preferance.
But, it doesn't move around and mess you up while welding. Expecially if you wear boots that weigh like,50lbs.
I have a Hobart machine (Which is now owned by Miller). And my pedal is an old school Hobart solid cast pedal. It weighs a hell of a lot but it stays where I put it.

Also remember that you need Argon (at the least, as it's the most accessible and it's affordable) to do TIG welding. You can use Helium and a mix of Ar and He. So like I said, you will need a specific regulator for that bottle of Argon. A C02 mix Regulator will not work etc...

[slw240sx]

actually i use a Co2 mix regulator on my tank when i Tee in a back purge on my main Argon bottle. But a Good regulator is also needed, i completely forgot about that. I take it for granted because i have yet to have to replace mine. I have had to replace my Mig Tank's regulator twice because its a cheap one.

Jon

[atutt]

^Must be different here in Canada. All our regulators are different per gas. All the threads are different.

[onepuff]

Well somebody beat me to them. All 3 i was looking at are gone. I'll have to keep an eye on that site to see if something else comes up. Thanks for all the info and advice everyone. I'll update if i find something.