5000$ wishlist

[TeamRush42]

I should recieve around 6K$ within the next 2 weeks and with this i will begin my 240 project...I already have a car to buy in mind for about 800 so I would like to get some help on how i should spend my budget of 5K...The most i can say is i want to have a complete car...I am more about usable daily power than all out speed...I would also perfer auto-x to dragracing but i participate in both...I just need some help/suggestion to get started...and for the old guys that like to flame on newbies please leave me alone <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'> &nbsp; thanks for your help...later

[Apparition]

I think it really depends on how good of condition that $800 car is in. If it needs a new engine, then that'll run you some coin, and the sky is the limit on what you want do to with it. You can spend small fortunes on everything. Body work, paint, etc. I know guys that have blown $5000 on paint alone. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/notify.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':notify:'>

But for autocross, just need a good suspension setup (coilovers, swaybars, etc) and a grippy set of tires. This alone can blow away a good chunk of your budget too.

I'd just make sure the car's frame isn't cracked or bent, and slowly go from there. See what needs to be replaced right away, and budget from there. Take it to a mechanic (if you're not one) and see what it truly needs. Hard for us to say when we can't see it or feel it.

Good luck with your new project though. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[LanceS13]

Assuming no engine/tranny, and a body that's in good shape.
$300 all new poly-u suspension bushings
$1200 lightweight 16x7.5" rims (Kosei K1's maybe)
$500 good set of tires
$1500 engine/tranny and use whatever's left for bolt on upgrades
$1500 maybe some Tein HA/HE's or $700-$1000 for shocks/springs and put the rest towards bolt-ons.
Should make a pretty good STS car.

[MorganS13]

yea definitely make sure your car is running good first, that will make a big difference.... &nbsp;after putting ~$3k in peformance mods towards my car i'm starting to realize that there are lots or regular maintenance/wear and tear items that need to be replaced soon and they are draining my wallet &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

[bing]

spend more than $800 on your car, if you only spend $800 you will only get $800 worth.

splurge a bit and pick up a 91+, it should be a tad faster, no timing chain problems, already has a decent set of wheels.

spned a few hundred amd make it run like day one.

pick up a tokico / eibach combo, and ijen intake w/ cae.

then get a decent cd player and drive responsibly.

[vapor_skank]

Hey where do you live,I think i might know you, i know this guy on team rush. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'>

[TeamRush42]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (vapor_skank @ Dec. 03 2002,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey where do you live,I think i might know you, i know this guy on team rush. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Im with Team Rush in South Carolina...where are you from??? well anyway...the car is a 93 notch back/ the body is in perfect shape but the motor is blown...I was looking to put in a SR20 swap and maybe suspension...should I be able to do both or should i just spend it all on the motor + boltons??? thanks for all the help

[hurleyboi514]

hey, im in spartanburg, SC. &nbsp;theres a shop in MB that does SR swaps, Epik Motorsports. &nbsp;www.epikmotorsports.com &nbsp;A friend of mine is about to get a black top 180sx engine put in. &nbsp;thats where id go... &nbsp;

btw, what on the KA is blown? &nbsp;rings? &nbsp;timing chain? &nbsp;id like to buy the engine and tranny for a rebuild project. &nbsp;$100 for both? &nbsp;email me if you are intrested...

-ken

[Annoying Eric]

Spend that 5 g's on the sr swap, get the most expensive stuff outta the way while you have the money, i got my sr installed for orginally 4300 but i added more stuff on so about 5..

it was $4300 for:
sr20det
apexi n1 dual
Labor
Intake
HKS downpipe
HKS FMIC

[Nerfdude]

i can't comprehend spending so much money to end up with a smaller engine. if you're going to spend 3 grand on the engine, spend it on turboing the KA. and if you've got 5 grand to throw around, definately buy a 91+.

[Kreator]

hmmm
or u can spend ~1500 and get yerself a turbo ka that's more powerfull than the stock sr &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/whatsthat.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':whatthe:'>

[Foxcolt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Nerfdude @ Dec. 03 2002,12:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i can't comprehend spending so much money to end up with a smaller engine. if you're going to spend 3 grand on the engine, spend it on turboing the KA. and if you've got 5 grand to throw around, definately buy a 91+.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
2500 = redtop sr plus boost controller. Will demolish any turbo ka on stock internals. I have seen many instances of both (sr's and KA+T's) and I have never seen a non built ka take out an sr.

Build and turbo a KA THE RIGHT WAY and you'll go through that 5 grand before you can even buy a car.

Just FYI for the people that wanted to start a KA vs SR battle.
Jed <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sarcasm:'>

Edit: Not to mention turboing a KA for 1500 buckazoids would equal having to cut some major corners. A well suited turbo for a KA would range from 400-700 bux. Fuel injectors 300 tops. ECU retune 600 intercooler, fuel pump, exhaust intake, intercooler piping blah blah

[hurleyboi514]

who r u buying your 240 from? &nbsp;i know two guys that blew their engines recently that are both trying to sell their cars for like $800. &nbsp;one is ernesto (easy) in a black coupe, and adam with a maroon coupe. &nbsp;is it either one of them? &nbsp;the black car had freshly rebuilt KA when he bought it and he over heated it b/c he drove it when the water pump went out but drove it anyways. &nbsp;the maroon coupe of adams was blown when doing donuts causing the crank bearings to be deprived of oil thus ruining the engine.... sad, very sad, both cases... &nbsp;either way though, if its one of them, i still want the engine since i know what happened to them, and i should be able to rebuild them...

[240 2NR]

He's my take. &nbsp;I bought my 93 240 with 47k on the clock and what was probably in the the top 99.5% condition wise last year. &nbsp;Never diven in winter and only three times per week on average. &nbsp;Fully stock and as clean as it was new. &nbsp;Even at that price (I won't say how much, but know it was many times more han $800 and in my opinion well worth it) it wasn't perfect as wear items were in great shape for being 8-9 years old, but were still 8-9 years old. &nbsp;On an $800 I'm guessing you'll have even more to deal with.

Here's my take on it for $5g's

Your tires and wheels. &nbsp;Even with decent all season tires, they're still a compromise (they'll never be good on trakc and they'll never be as good as snow tires in winter). &nbsp;Keep the wheels and run some snow tires for the winter and get some dedicated lightweight wheels and some quality high performance tires

snows= $300 &nbsp;wheels ~$800 &nbsp;tires= $400

Now I would also make checking the engine and runnning gear a high priority. &nbsp;Check and replace things like the fuel filter, air filter (or get a CAI if you want), brake fluid, brake pads, rotors, timing chain tensioner, etc. &nbsp;Looks for any wear items or fluids in your engine bay that need replacing or at least checking. &nbsp;Remember, a problem that might not show up for thousands of miles on the street can get bad quick in racing conditions.

Maintenence $100-$500 depending on condition

Then on to fluids, chances are they were never replaced. &nbsp;Even on my garage queen of a 93, I'm pretty sure oil was the only thing that ever got changed. &nbsp;To that end, get some nice synthetic motor and gear oils and change them in the engine, trans and diff. &nbsp;Also some new radiator fluid/cololant.

Mobil 1 oil and filter= $25 &nbsp;Amsoil gear lube= $40 &nbsp;Coolant=$15

Now onto shocks. &nbsp;They get old and wear out. &nbsp;Get some AGX's or the like. &nbsp;While under there you might as well replace some ball joints, bushings and springs. &nbsp;a set of sway bars would be nice too.

AGX's= $350 &nbsp;Springs=$250 &nbsp;Sway bars=$250 &nbsp;Ball joints (LCA= $50 each, Tie rod ends +35 each) &nbsp;Bushings = $150 for the car

OK, so now you're mostly done with wear items and $2700 or more poorer, but your car is already a lot more fun.

Now onto the really fun list, here's mine

B&M shifter=$250
Clay bar kit= $15 (so worth the time and so little money)
Wax= $10
Cams= $500
Exhaust= $500
Header= $350
Racing seat=$200-600
So now I'm at $4925 before taxes and shipping.

Maybe a few other fun bits, and the rest I would dedicate to tools, portable chairs, a helmet, a harness, enrty fees and other auto-x expenses.

Really make sure you buget enough for entry fees, insurance, any minor injuries to you or the car and enough to keep a normal life outside your car. &nbsp;Seat time is invaluable and will make you a better driver than any bolt on parts ever can, but then again, half the fun is buying all those parts and installing them.

PS- I thought this topic was going to be how would you spend $5000 on your own car, so here's my list for that too:

So far I already have:
93 240 sx white fastback 69k miles
Whiteline suspension kit (konis, sways, springs and bushings)
5Zigen exhaust
180sx lights front and rear
Stereo
Helmet and harness
Snow tires on steelies (currently on my gf's altima while the 240 sleeps this winter)
Rota Subzero's with Kuhmo 712's
KVR brake pads
all fluids listed above

What I would do with $5k:

Z brake upgrade (rotors, calipers, pads, lines, plus rear ss lines and new rotors, new MC and Brake booster) &nbsp;
$750

New wheels and tires (and sell the rota's since they won't clear the Z calipers) $1500

Cams= $550
Header= $350
B&M shifter= $250
Racing seat= $550 (sparco pro 2000)
Electric fans= $200
Lightweight flywheel and ACT clutch= $450, $300
VLSD*= $350

* For another grand a quaife would be on the list

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Foxcolt @ Dec. 03 2002,1:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Nerfdude @ Dec. 03 2002,12:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i can't comprehend spending so much money to end up with a smaller engine. if you're going to spend 3 grand on the engine, spend it on turboing the KA. and if you've got 5 grand to throw around, definately buy a 91+.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
2500 = redtop sr plus boost controller. Will demolish any turbo ka on stock internals. I have seen many instances of both (sr's and KA+T's) and I have never seen a non built ka take out an sr.

Build and turbo a KA THE RIGHT WAY and you'll go through that 5 grand before you can even buy a car.

Just FYI for the people that wanted to start a KA vs SR battle.
Jed <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sarcasm:'>

Edit: Not to mention turboing a KA for 1500 buckazoids would equal having to cut some major corners. A well suited turbo for a KA would range from 400-700 bux. Fuel injectors 300 tops. ECU retune 600 intercooler, fuel pump, exhaust intake, intercooler piping blah blah</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Riiiiight. Lets see..
u get a used engine, used turbo, used manifold used ic...
I get used ungine (well alrdy have it), used turbo and brand new manifold...
You get to pay $500 for shipping... i dont (well u have a ka stuck around now so say you can cover the shipping if u sell that).

Now $1500 that i'm putting in my car ends me up with a set of nice gauges (one of them - $130 greddy gauge), and an msd rev limiter (to make it super safe <- set at 5400 so that i never reach 6000 that will kill me).

As for cutting corners.... not really. A rebuilt turbo costs about $250 (hey isn't yer t25 used as well?). 330cc injectors in ebay - $120. IC - not nesessary for 4psi. Ask jeff240sx. If i really want it though (and i kinda do and i'm prolly gonna get it) eclipse side mounts are there all the time for <$50. Fuel pump - hmmm what was it... 8psi that it maxes out at? Exhaust - i could care less... plus u didn't get one with yer sr either, did u? My 2.25 will do fine at 4psi. Intake - that's included in the $1500. Intercooler piping? 2 1/4" piping from discount autoparts - $7/foot (includes crush bends) and that is also included in the $1500.

But lets add all this shit to my 1500 bux.
Walbro fuel pump - 130
ECU - 600
injectors - 130
normal ic - 300
now i'm good to run 10psi (what's that, 280rwhp?) for only 2660. Now lets throw in the price of the cherry picker you have to buy for the swap, and the sr ends up at 2700 (assume all the other tools are the same). Hey, it's still less than the stock sr costs and it will own the hell out of it... doh.

The only place sr is better than ka, is at that elusive 300-400rwhp mark, where u kinda gotta rebuild the ka and the sr will still do fine (well, replace the turbo and all that shit but i won't be counting that). After that they are both the same and will both break often. But before that 300rwhp mark ka will take the sr for the same amount of money.

Side note, the demolishing part.... you forgot front mount ic... add $300 more.... now for that money the ka will prolly be still faster...

Plus not all of us are mad phat stunnaz who wonna have l33t 350rwhp. I'd be fine if my stock looking 240 will take on a stock type r or at least puts up a good battle with it. Plus some people like taking it one step at a time.

PS. I wasn't planning to start the sr-ka battle, but since you want it so badly i'll give in. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sarcasm:'>

[Red89AllStockBiotch]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Dec. 03 2002,7:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Foxcolt @ Dec. 03 2002,1<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Nerfdude @ Dec. 03 2002,12:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i can't comprehend spending so much money to end up with a smaller engine. if you're going to spend 3 grand on the engine, spend it on turboing the KA. and if you've got 5 grand to throw around, definately buy a 91+.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
2500 = redtop sr plus boost controller. Will demolish any turbo ka on stock internals. I have seen many instances of both (sr's and KA+T's) and I have never seen a non built ka take out an sr.

Build and turbo a KA THE RIGHT WAY and you'll go through that 5 grand before you can even buy a car.

Just FYI for the people that wanted to start a KA vs SR battle.
Jed <!--emo&<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sarcasm:'>

Edit: Not to mention turboing a KA for 1500 buckazoids would equal having to cut some major corners. A well suited turbo for a KA would range from 400-700 bux. Fuel injectors 300 tops. ECU retune 600 intercooler, fuel pump, exhaust intake, intercooler piping blah blah</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Riiiiight. Lets see..
u get a used engine, used turbo, used manifold used ic...
I get used ungine (well alrdy have it), used turbo and brand new manifold...
You get to pay $500 for shipping... i dont (well u have a ka stuck around now so say you can cover the shipping if u sell that).

Now $1500 that i'm putting in my car ends me up with a set of nice gauges (one of them - $130 greddy gauge), and an msd rev limiter (to make it super safe <- set at 5400 so that i never reach 6000 that will kill me).

As for cutting corners.... not really. A rebuilt turbo costs about $250 (hey isn't yer t25 used as well?). 330cc injectors in ebay - $120. IC - not nesessary for 4psi. Ask jeff240sx. If i really want it though (and i kinda do and i'm prolly gonna get it) eclipse side mounts are there all the time for <$50. Fuel pump - hmmm what was it... 8psi that it maxes out at? Exhaust - i could care less... plus u didn't get one with yer sr either, did u? My 2.25 will do fine at 4psi. Intake - that's included in the $1500. Intercooler piping? 2 1/4" piping from discount autoparts - $7/foot (includes crush bends) and that is also included in the $1500.

But lets add all this shit to my 1500 bux.
Walbro fuel pump - 130
ECU - 600
injectors - 130
normal ic - 300
now i'm good to run 10psi (what's that, 280rwhp?) for only 2660. Now lets throw in the price of the cherry picker you have to buy for the swap, and the sr ends up at 2700 (assume all the other tools are the same). Hey, it's still less than the stock sr costs and it will own the hell out of it... doh.

The only place sr is better than ka, is at that elusive 300-400rwhp mark, where u kinda gotta rebuild the ka and the sr will still do fine (well, replace the turbo and all that shit but i won't be counting that). After that they are both the same and will both break often. But before that 300rwhp mark ka will take the sr for the same amount of money.

Side note, the demolishing part.... you forgot front mount ic... add $300 more.... now for that money the ka will prolly be still faster...

Plus not all of us are mad phat stunnaz who wonna have l33t 350rwhp. I'd be fine if my stock looking 240 will take on a stock type r or at least puts up a good battle with it. Plus some people like taking it one step at a time.

PS. I wasn't planning to start the sr-ka battle, but since you want it so badly i'll give in. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sarcasm:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Yeah <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':devil:'> .Bitch.

[TeamRush42]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (hurleyboi514 @ Dec. 03 2002,1:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">who r u buying your 240 from? i know two guys that blew their engines recently that are both trying to sell their cars for like $800. one is ernesto (easy) in a black coupe, and adam with a maroon coupe. is it either one of them? the black car had freshly rebuilt KA when he bought it and he over heated it b/c he drove it when the water pump went out but drove it anyways. the maroon coupe of adams was blown when doing donuts causing the crank bearings to be deprived of oil thus ruining the engine.... sad, very sad, both cases... either way though, if its one of them, i still want the engine since i know what happened to them, and i should be able to rebuild them...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I was gonna try to get the maroon one but I just found out it was sold ...so the search will continue for the car. &nbsp;To keep this from being a KA v. SR battle I will say that I have already decided on a SR already but all the information is still useful &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[adey]

3,000 on a PROPERLY done SR Swap (stock, no add ons)
2,000 on GOOD suspension
(1600 on JIC FLT-A2s and 400 on misc sway bars/bushings).
That's my take, everyone else's will differ! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

this is, of course, all assuming you have a body in GOOD shape. Next would be tires, seat and steering wheel.

[turbo240sx]

i rebiult my ka made it turbo and put forged internals in it for under $5000 bucks. not knocking the sr but the ka isnt that hard or expensive to built if you do it right and put money in the right places. it all depends what you like. i did the ka cuz everyone else did the sr.

[TeamRush42]

Ive had terrible luck with "built" motors...I broke a crank on my LsVtec (go figure <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':blush:'> &nbsp;) so I am trying to avoid that route...for now i would like bolt-ons (cams upgrade turbo DP's ect...)

but ADEY i think i will prob stick close to your formula...sr and good suspension

[Foxcolt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TeamRush42 @ Dec. 03 2002,11:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ive had terrible luck with "built" motors...I broke a crank on my LsVtec (go figure <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':blush:'> ) so I am trying to avoid that route...for now i would like bolt-ons (cams upgrade turbo DP's ect...)

but ADEY i think i will prob stick close to your formula...sr and good suspension</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Nuff said <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Kreator: I'd like to see what your car can do when you finish your project. Kinda curious.

1,Sidemount intercooler is better than no ic. Don't run a turbo without one. That's just asking for detonation/ piss poor performance.

2, Don't control fuel through a adustable fpr. Please don't. That's the equivelent, to my old zex kit on the KAslow. Built in fpr to adjust for fuel. Not right, not safe. As I'm sure you know what happened with the zex kit.
Don't know if that's the way your going or not.

3, 10psi non intercooled on a t3/t4 at 280rwhp? I'd like to see proof of that. Not knocking it but for some reason I find that hard to believe.

4, Did you say cruch bent piping from discount autoparts? Ouch that's rough.
------------------------------------------------------------

Now all this talk is great however I can say from personal experience that I have only come across one KA that I know is faster than an SR at 14lbs. That KA is built running a t3 at 15-20lbs of boost. All others including one with a stage 2 fmax kit were beaten by SR's w/ minor bolt ons running from 7psi-14psi on t25's to t28's.

Show me proof and then I'll believe you. Otherwise all this theory is useless. My assumptions are based on real world facts from what I have seen with my own eyes. Not what people tell me or what I read on the internet.


One more thing. My USED SR has less miles and is newer (98) than even your motor. All for 2500 SHIPPED
Nowadays you can find 98 s13 blacktop clips for 2 grand shipped. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/turn.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':turn:'>

[Kreator]

1. I'm going to run a sidemount eclipse. I just won it on ebay 5 mins ago for $40. I was checking the numbers though, and most places recommend running ic at 190+ F. From what i calculated i'll be getting about 160-170. But still going with ic for the safety issues.

2. I'm not messing with fuel pressure at all. Stock pressure, stock pump, stock injectors.

3. Reread my post. There is a "normal ic - 300" line. That's what you can get a spearco for off ebay.

4. well, 2 1/4" piping will be well enough for my 4psi. And if it will really be killing me, $50 bux spent on that piping won't be a big loss.

As for srs beating kas.... can't say any facts here. Cuz neither have i seen a ka race an sr, neither do i have a ka. But from general stuff that i heard...

Johnathan runs 15psi right? 13.3 in the 1/4 correct numbers right? Let's assume that's sr's max without changing the turbo.

Now, i don't remember the guy's name, but he had a black s14a at the last meet with a 7psi ka running 13.9. I bet at 12 psi it will make it to 13.3 or even less

Jeff240sx's car showed 14.8 in the 1/4 with gtechpro. Yeah, not that accurate but he has an auto. Say it's abit off and his car only runs 15. I have a manual so i guess i'll be able to pick up .5s there. That's for just running what he has. Now on top of his setup, i'm using:

1) a smaller turbo => faster spool up
2) 91 cams
3) 2.5 mandrel bent exhaust
4) electric fan
5) smic
6) LSD (better start off if we are talking 0 - 1/4mile)

now i have an internal WG so say i loose something there and leaky cyllinders, but i'm pretty sure that 14.2-14.3 is well achievable with what i will have. And all that stuff still ends me up at ~$2200.

As for getting it for 2500shipped, i dunnow where u got it from, but the price at heavythrottle is 2500 + shipping. Yes, you can get it for 2000shipped, but who told you it's gonna run after that?

[Foxcolt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Dec. 04 2002,10:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
"2. I'm not messing with fuel pressure at all. Stock pressure, stock pump, stock injectors."

Eh? And fuel will be added how? Or are you assuming that stock ECU, mafs, injectors, fuel map will acount for extra 4psi worth of air?

"3. Reread my post. There is a "normal ic - 300" line. That's what you can get a spearco for off ebay."

Not sure what you mean. But piping is a whole different story. That if done well/right can easily surpass 300 bux

"4. well, 2 1/4" piping will be well enough for my 4psi. And if it will really be killing me, $50 bux spent on that piping won't be a big loss."

Good luck getting all that to fit right... I'm serious, that might be the hardest part of your project.

"As for srs beating kas.... can't say any facts here. Cuz neither have i seen a ka race an sr, neither do i have a ka. But from general stuff that i heard..."

Exactly

"Johnathan runs 15psi right? 13.3 in the 1/4 correct numbers right? Let's assume that's sr's max without changing the turbo."

His turbo might very well be capable of pushing 21 psi. But that's another topic and his setup should not be stereotyped.

"Now, i don't remember the guy's name, but he had a black s14a at the last meet with a 7psi ka running 13.9. I bet at 12 psi it will make it to 13.3 or even less"

His name was Steve. Fmax stage 2. Beaten by a 96 black w/ 98 s13blacktop sr 7psi fmic, HPI exhaust manny, turbo extension, 3 inch exhaust. and some other bolt ons.

"Jeff240sx's car showed 14.8 in the 1/4 with gtechpro. Yeah, not that accurate but he has an auto. Say it's abit off and his car only runs 15. I have a manual so i guess i'll be able to pick up .5s there. That's for just running what he has. Now on top of his setup, i'm using:

1) a smaller turbo => faster spool up
2) 91 cams
3) 2.5 mandrel bent exhaust
4) electric fan
5) smic
6) LSD (better start off if we are talking 0 - 1/4mile)

now i have an internal WG so say i loose something there and leaky cyllinders, but i'm pretty sure that 14.2-14.3 is well achievable with what i will have. And all that stuff still ends me up at ~$2200."

And you will be paying the price of an SR to ultimitly be slower than an SR. Plus with these choices your making you will be severly limiting what can be done once you decide to turn the boost up.

Heavythrottle is a great place. The best in my eyes. But c'mon. SR's are pretty easy to get at the prices I mentioned nowadays. And I bought my motor at a very reputable company. As long as you buy a clip you'll be fine. All the SR horror stories are from people buying motorsets. I have never seen anyone complain from buying a clip.
Jed

[Foxcolt]

Sorry to turn this topic into a debate.

Kreator: If you want we can start another topic so we don't have to hijack this one.

Jed

[uiuc240]

Jed, what are you saying about his fuel issues? &nbsp;They'll be fine. &nbsp;4 psi can easily be handled by the stock KA MAFS, injectors and fuel pump. &nbsp;It doesn't flip out because of positive mani pressure.


Eric

[Foxcolt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (uiuc240 @ Dec. 04 2002,11:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Jed, what are you saying about his fuel issues? They'll be fine. 4 psi can easily be handled by the stock KA MAFS, injectors and fuel pump. It doesn't flip out because of positive mani pressure.


Eric</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
That's why I said he'll be severly limiting himself once he decides to turn up the boost.

Jed
How much hp can stock mafs, fuel map, injectors handle before having to be changed?

[uiuc240]

well, the stock MAFS has been proven good to about 270hp (meaning that more flow than that causes it to produce a voltage reading that the ECU cannot compute, basically). &nbsp;The stock injectors (270cc) will only be good to about 187 hp with a BSFC of .55. &nbsp;However, some people are seeing more power than this. &nbsp;The fuel maps should be fine for an extra bar of pressure (most manufacturers do this, at least).

Eric

[Kreator]

Hmmm so are you saying stock sr runs 14.2 in the 1/4?
It's all about choices. I don't wonna really get into this argument right now just cuz i'm speculating on what all this will cost me. I've spent sometime calculating what i need and it cam out to a bit under $1500. How much it will actually cost - i have no clue. So once i actually make my car run with this and calculate exactly what it cost me, we can make up a thread and see what we end up with.

I don't have anything against srs except 2 things. a) everyone has one, b) i have this thing about swapping in a smaller engine. Plus it's going to be a daily driver. I need this car to bring me to and from school. I just want a little more fun out of this activity.

Oh and i think Steve had stage 1 at that point at 7psi. Or at least that's what he told me.

And i want torque. lots of it. I took a ride in yer sr when it was still stock, and it felt no different than dimitry's ka with bolt ons. I want something that would start pulling hard at like 2400 and do that through 4000rpm. I think the turbo i got is capable of doing exactly that. It's just seems pointless to me right now to spend all this money and time on getting power out of 2.4 or a 2.0 engine, when in 1.5-2 years i'll have money to afford putting ANY engine in a 240 or any other sport compact car i desire <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

eric - btw, jeff has 196rwhp (with gtechpro though) which is quite over 187hp and still uses stock injectors.

[1fasts13]

bleeehh....spend ur 5k budget with me &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'> &nbsp;hahaha j/k

i agree with most here, splurge a lil and get a 91+, will be in better condition plus will also give you a better platform for a swap down the line &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

then the rest i'd put into suspension, whether full coilovers or spring/shock combo, wheels/tires, and a good bucket seat/4 or 5 pt harness (being tossed around on stock seats sux ass!!!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>. &nbsp;watever left over go to a driving school, or save up for the swap while u learn the kaaar &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

leo
www.jdmspecperf.com

[Foxcolt]

That's fine. You have valid points for wanting to stay with the KA.

One more thing though. Don't base your decision on that ride you took with me in springfield. That was about a week after I installed the motor and it was having major issues.

1, tps sensor was broken causing it to run WAY to rich

2, Huge exhaust leak at the turbo, causing super turbo lag and causing it to run WAY rich.

3, My SR isn't the fastest of the bunch. Even at 14psi.

Even at that point. (it was really slow) KA's with bolt ons were no problem. However I remember racing one and he got the jump on me because of my excess turbo lag at the time. Needless to say once it spooled it was over.

My SR ran a 14.1 at 10psi with sidemount, exhaust leak at the turbo and a 2.4-2.8 60ft (maybe not that bad, but bad) time.

This leads me to believe that a stock sr can run 14.1.

Don't compare your KA to a stock sr. Solely for the reason that 50 bucks can get you a manual boost controller. 1 bar right there.

Jed
PS. How many people have you seen that have an SR? Everyone's got one? C'mon, please. "I don't want that M3 Cause everyone's got it" <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'>

[Silviaholic]

Invest the five thousand. &nbsp;Store it, and save it. &nbsp;I dont know, nor car how young/old you are. &nbsp;Store as much money as you can. &nbsp;If you cant, atleast saved 8k and take a trip by McKinney and throw it to them. &nbsp;I have seen only a few RB25DETs (net only)

Thats probably the way I may go after I get the s14a...

maybe... maybe the KA who knows...

[Kreator]

Hmm lets see... just around our area.... You, jonathan, daimon, bsht240... and 2-3 guys plan on getting one in the very near future. Kas.... Steve is hte only guy i've seen with a kat.

do sr's come at 10psi?

Oh, and still don't forget. I'm doing all this for a 1500. I'll be running $2000 with 4psi. Say my leaky cyllinders will acount for your exhaust leak. I still predict low 14s. Now a matter of 500 bux will end me up at about 8psi, and say 900 at 12psi....so for close to $3000 i'll have as much as jonathan at the wheels.....

[Foxcolt]

All speculation my friend.

Finish your project, put your car on the "heart breaker". Then we'll find out whether your thoery holds true.

You make all these speculations about what your going to spend for your turbo. Once you start working you know that's all going out the window right?

Seriously if you want a cheap turbo setup why don't the turbo charge the escort?

"do sr's come at 10psi?"
No SR's come stock at 7psi. Did you misread my post?

Bottom line: None of us knew what we were getting into until we did it. i thought my SR swap was going to be 3 grand tops. I was very misinformed. The cheap way and the right way don't coincide. They just don't. I've seen plenty of people (good friends of mine) who think they can motor swap/turbo charge their car for cheap. Once they are knee deep in it they realize that it's gonna cost a heck of a lot more than they thought. The project you are undertaking Kreator is not one that is meant to be done cheaply. You WILL regret it in the future if you do that.

You compare your project to a stock sr. Why? You compare your budget to that of someone who is buying a stock sr. Why? If you are trying to prove that you can build a turbo KA that will be faster than an sr for cheaper than I apologize my friend. It has already been done. I spent less on my SR swap than the cost of a FMax/Nsport turbo kit for a KA. So it works both ways.

I would understand if you were building a cheap intake or something, however I don't think that turboing a car is something that should be done cheaply.

Jed

SR's. Me, Jonathan, Kelly, Daimons car (he sold it)
KAT &nbsp;Scott(richmond), Matt, Steve, Long(in the works)

Seems pretty even to me. And that's just off the top of my head. Scotts is the fastest by far. I wish he was on this forum as he has a heck of a lot of good info.

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Dec. 04 2002,12:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">eric - btw, jeff has 196rwhp (with gtechpro though) which is quite over 187hp and still uses stock injectors.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I know this. &nbsp;I was just running the calc for 270cc injectors

((270/10.5)*4)/.55 = ~187

Maybe I F'd it up. &nbsp;Whatever. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Eric

[Kreator]

Hmm why can't i be comparing stock sr to my turbo ka? You are saying 50 bux gives u a manual boost controller.... umm .1bar? did u mean at least .5? that's 1000 over what i have. Add the fmic to both - $600. Yers is now at 3100, mine at 2100. Now ecu, injectors and pump will cost me about 900 and we'll end up at about the same level. But you can't get the sr for $1500. At that base level my ka will take the stock sr.

Yes, most of hte stuff i'm speculating on. But half of the parts is already on the way/arrived. All i still need to find and get are gauges, custom made dp and piping for the ic. Everything else is on the way. Ofcourse oil/water lines and misc vacuum lines/hoses. And with big reserve for misc stuff this is what it all is coming out to.

Turboing the escort did cross my mind, and not just once. The only thing is that the engine won't hold more than +50 hp. And with that i'm better off swapping the mazda 1.8 in (what came in the GT).

Honestly, i don't think i'm doing this "cheap". The only place where u can call me cheap, is the turbo, cuz i got it used. Other then that, the only other used part is the BOV. But cmon, u got all that stuff used too, didn't u? And the turbo cost me $200 in perfect condition. So thinking about it, if i screw it up, not a big deal. If i deside to go up: no problem. T04b rebuilt turbos on ebay - $300. All the other parts are still the same ones and i can upgrade as i go along. I don't really think that what i'm putting for 1500 can be considered cheap in any way. But we'll see.

Another thing, i wanted to do this myself. Swapping an engine is fine, but turboing seems more fun to me.

[Jeff240sx]

Umm.. I didn't run on a Gtech Pro. &nbsp;I ran on my HKS Type 1 turbo timer, and would trust it more than a Gtech, because it is hardwired into my ecu, detecting rpms, speed, and a couple other things. &nbsp;It put me at 14.8, and I went to DeSoto drag strip in Florida to run 14.8. &nbsp;My 0-60 was from my turbo timer, and I only post it because the 1/4 mile time it put out was on par. &nbsp;Also, based on the weight of my car, taken at the strip, pushed thru an online horsepower, it showed 196rwhp. &nbsp;This didn't take into account many other aspects, such at tire size, transmission, or anything. &nbsp;This is why when people ask how much hp I have, I say *calculated* 196. &nbsp;Anyway. &nbsp;14.8 at the track. &nbsp;*Calculated* 196 horsepower. &nbsp;
Stock fuel system is supposed to go dead lean at 5psi. &nbsp;UIUC is right, the stock KA MAF is good to 280hp according to JWT.
Since this has become a KA v. SR debate, I will add a (hopefully) quick piece. &nbsp;Also, (hopefully) unbiased.
Foxcolt: &nbsp;You were "very misinformed" when you thought that you would do the swap for under $3k. &nbsp;What exactly are you at? &nbsp;CIP motorsports is selling a turbo kit for $3600. &nbsp;You couldn't be any cheaper than $3200 to get the engine, shipping, and parts necessary to install it. &nbsp;So you'd have $400 for goodies. &nbsp;The SR motor is rated at 205hp * .88 (driveline loss) = 180.4 =RWhp. &nbsp;I'm well over that stock ammount of power, for well under $3000. &nbsp;A turbo kit at 7psi (what they are all made to) are proven to put out 240RWhp on a KA. &nbsp;You have $400-600 to make up 60RWhp! &nbsp;It can't be done. &nbsp;And then eventually, the SR will need a larger turbo, and a new manifold to hold the turbo, then injectors and crap. &nbsp;I don't know of very many 400hp SR motors with less than $7k in them.
And for $7k in a KA, you can have 400hp also. &nbsp;But the KA would need a rebuild, and gobs more fuel than the SR. &nbsp;Also, the parts for the KA are more expensive.
Can't we just agree that for the same ammount of money, you will have the same ammount of horsepower? &nbsp;Just each one has different initial expenses, and different build-up requirements at different times.
I have also talked to 95Silvia, who lives here in Tampa. &nbsp;He has an s14 blacktop at 14psi, with z32 MAF and lotsa electronics. &nbsp;The best his car ran was 13.7 with someone else driving. &nbsp;That is 10psi more than my car, along with a manual tranny (which I lack) for 1.1seconds. &nbsp;So...
RECAP: &nbsp;I hate Gtech. &nbsp;1/4 Mile time from DeSoto dragstrip. &nbsp;0-60 time from HKS Type 1 turbo timer. &nbsp;KA v. SR cost the same eventually (huge hp numbers) and cost very close to eachother for moderate power gains. &nbsp;
Also... if after reading this, you still wish to argue, please create a separate post and not hijack this one. &nbsp;And I am sorry for hijacking this also. &nbsp;Whoever started this post, if you want most this deleted... PM me and I will do it.
-Jeff