lowering question

[ABAKER240]

im sure this has been discussed before, but i want to lower my car, coilovers are expensive as hell and i heard for the most part ride like garbage, who makes the biggest drop in springs, that will still ride good(of course with the right struts)?

[ThatGuy]

Cheap coilovers ride like garbage.

Springs do not lower a car enough.

Save your money and do it right.

[Vernal]

google

msglength

[JoHn E]

if ur getting springs are u getting shocks/struts too?

because i put aftermarket springs on my honda while keeping the stock shocks and the springs killed the shocks pretty bad

[ABAKER240]

yes i will be getting struts too, its really kinda hard for me to justify spending over 1000 dollars on coilovers when it wont be used for competition or anything, i just want it to look good, not drift good

[ThatGuy]

If you can't justify it, don't lower it.

You gotta pay to pay.

No one said anything about drifting.

2 - 2.5" lowering springs don't do enough. You are still left with wheel gap.

[Jgrand03]

tein flexs are realitivley cheap and rride decently but like ThatGuy said cheap coilovers ride like shit like my old megans then i decided to get quality coilovers my ohlins and they ride like a dream but if your worried about spending 1000 then ohlins and quality coilovers arent for you

[jhec23]

Good springs $300 + Good shocks $400 = save a little more for good coilovers so you don't regret it later buying lowering springs first.

[Jgrand03]

If you can't justify it, don't lower it.

You gotta pay to pay.

No one said anything about drifting.

2 - 2.5" lowering springs don't do enough. You are still left with wheel gap.




exactly if your too worried about spending a couple thousand then imports and tuner cars arent for you just go get a nice DD

[HKSdrift3r]

ah yes, the ole form over function technique (ftl!!)

The biggest drop you can see from springs is almost 2" from various manufacturers, which will most likely damage your shocks/struts. Even though there are some aftermarket shock that are made for lowered springs, none can support a drop that big. Your best bet is either the Eibach pro-kit or tein s tech springs with kyb agx shocks. At this point you may want to just save a bit more and get some entry level coils with a softer spring rate for the street for a smoother ride. Good luck!

[ABAKER240]

guess i never really thought about it like that
Good springs $300 + Good shocks $400 = save a little more for good coilovers so you don't regret it later buying lowering springs first.

[ZX88]

dont buy springs unless you do it the right way. no sportlines bs and agxs- just save a little more and get some coils.

[97KATURBOSILVIA]

buying coilovers was the best thing i ever did, i have control master flex's by tein they ride good and im able to slam the car for pix and raise for evryday driving, but what do i know my rep sucks

[OptionZero]

don't buy anything

read more

save more

[HS13KLS]

don't buy anything

read more

save more


good answer..

if nothing else..and you just want to look cool

cut your springs. thats would be a great idea :keke:

[The Chad]

I enjoy my Sportlines and AGX's...cost about $400 for both off Ebay. Not the nicest package for track or anything crazy, but great for an upgrade for a spirited drive around town. :)

[punxva]

I wasted my time with the shock and spring combo, agx and sportlines... they were alright, but yeah i ended up getting stance gr+ and love them, they don't ride bad better than my agx's ever would, save the money and get what you can afford

[CleanKAKouki]

^^agreed. sportlines with tokicos gave me a decent street drop, and it rode nice enough to take on 6 hour drives and not make my kidneys bleed haha

[status:one]

patience is a key virtue... i highly recommend doing it right the first time and saving for quality. you'll be saving your save money and a lot of time.

[CoasTek240]

For the same price as a decent spring and strut combo (~$750) you can get Ksport coilovers. I wouldnt do it myself, but Ksports will look so much better than a spring and strut combo. For a little bit more(~$850) you can get a set of megans, and save up a couple hundred dollars more(~$1000-1100) and youll be able to pick up, some KTS, stance or Powered by MAX coils. much better bang for your buck.
I had a set of Ksports, and I liked em at the time, but their valving sucks. I loved my KTS's, but i sold them back home in VA. And now I'm about to pick up a set of MAX's for my new coupe. Ive ridden in a couple cars that have em and me likey And now that i live in SD I can pick them up right down the street.
use your search function and look up 'coilover thread to end it all'
good luck.

[Omarius Maximus]

I enjoy my Sportlines and AGX's...cost about $400 for both off Ebay. Not the nicest package for track or anything crazy, but great for an upgrade for a spirited drive around town. :)

KYB AGXs are crap. Here is a stock factory shock vs. it's agx equivalent:

http://www.peterpyce.com/Dampers/Dyno_Data/KYB-Soft-vs-OEM-18-inch.JPG

Now here is the difference between full soft and full stiff on the AGX:

http://www.peterpyce.com/Dampers/Dyno_Data/KYB-vs-KYB.jpg

As you can see, even at full stiff, the agxs really aren't much better than stock shocks.

FWIW, there are extremely effective spring/shock combos out there, Ground Control/Koni Yellows are a perfect example. The only problem is that without the shortened shock bodies, you won't be able to slam the car. Imo, what little you gain from the lower center of gravity, you lose with the shitty macpherson strut geometry you end up with on a slammed car. I'd rock stock height or close to stock height....but then again, I'm old school.

Also, I want to chime in on ride quality.

Ride quality is a product of two major things:

1. Damping
2. Suspension travel


1. Crap shocks are going to be underdamped, and as a result, you be bouncing around like a ping pong several times before the car settles from a bump. Also, crap shocks, like the agx do a terrible job absorbing small bumps (to stiff), but do an equally terrible job handling large bumps (too soft). So stay away from bad shocks.

2. Suspension travel is extremely important, and oft ignored. Lets say you have 300lb springs all around. Now lets say your so low that your literally riding on the shocks bumpstop. Your Spring rates are no longer 300lb, they are actually astronomically higher. Why? Because the shock body is unwilling to let the car go any lower..at this point, the springs aren't suspending the car, the shocks/bumpstops are, so your spring rates are essentially infinite. A lot of people think that spring rates dictate comfort...and they do to a lesser degree...but which do you think would be more comfortable? 1000lb springs with 2 inches of travel, or 200lb springs with .5 inches of travel? Again, the 200lb springs are 200lb for .5 inches...then, they are pegged at infinity.

Coilovers aren't uncomfortable, they do not ride terribly at all. Unfortunately, people lower their cars so much that they themselves are at fault for the ride. A coilover setup with proper travel is actually very controlled, and comfortable.

[driftordiemike]

y dnt u jst go with used coilover and save all the work

[RanciD]

KYB AGXs are crap. Here is a stock factory shock vs. it's agx equivalent:

http://www.peterpyce.com/Dampers/Dyno_Data/KYB-Soft-vs-OEM-18-inch.JPG[/IMG]

Now here is the difference between full soft and full stiff on the AGX:

http://www.peterpyce.com/Dampers/Dyno_Data/KYB-vs-KYB.jpg[/IMG]

As you can see, even at full stiff, the agxs really aren't much better than stock shocks.

FWIW, there are extremely effective spring/shock combos out there, Ground Control/Koni Yellows are a perfect example. The only problem is that without the shortened shock bodies, you won't be able to slam the car. Imo, what little you gain from the lower center of gravity, you lose with the shitty macpherson strut geometry you end up with on a slammed car. I'd rock stock height or close to stock height....but then again, I'm old school.

I'd take those graphs over the nightmares of JDM adjusters any day. ;) I'm running a Koni/GC combo and the quality and ride are excellent but as said, you will not be able to slam the car. Here's my car, front is about as low as I can go without welding the front spring perch lower which would probably require shortened bodies to keep sufficient travel. The car is leaning out slightly but regardless you can tell there is still a lot of wheel gap. If you want to go lower it's going to be some combination of low quality parts, more $$ and worse performance.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/coreyrancid/FCSCC5-17-08.jpg

[LA_phantom_240]

Cheap coilovers ride like garbage.

Springs do not lower a car enough.

Save your money and do it right.

Springs that do lower your car enough make your suspension bottom out. Trust me on this one... I hate every second of my s14's ride right now. I'm going back to stock this weekend.

[Omarius Maximus]

Car looks awesome Rancid. Form should always follow function.

[cdlong]

im sure this has been discussed before, but...

i love when posts start like this, always a recipe for disaster.

http://www.peterpyce.com/Dampers/Dyno_Data/KYB-Soft-vs-OEM-18-inch.JPG

Now here is the difference between full soft and full stiff on the AGX:

http://www.peterpyce.com/Dampers/Dyno_Data/KYB-vs-KYB.jpg

those charts are deceiving. the rates are different so the full soft charts don't match. there is quite a bit of difference between full stiff and full soft. it's not huge, but easily noticable and enough to cover a reasonable range of spring rates. i should note that i'm no longer using AGXs but the AGX/sportline combo i used to have did the job on the streets.

[The Chad]

I'm sure new factory shocks are about equal, but I couldn't beat the price. New OEM was quite a bit higher than $250 for the full set :) Again, I'm not doing any serious driving, just some spirited speeds through an off ramp every now and again. :) But to each their own. Coilovers were about twice what I paid for my combo, and for the Sunday driving I do, I'm glad I saved the money.

But again to each their own.
I don't think there is one right answer to this issue.
Just buy decent quality parts no matter what, the first time around for the application you want. Whether it be $800+ coilovers or a nice spring/shock combo, just research and make sure it is what you want :)



KYB AGXs are crap. Here is a stock factory shock vs. it's agx equivalent:

http://www.peterpyce.com/Dampers/Dyno_Data/KYB-Soft-vs-OEM-18-inch.JPG

Now here is the difference between full soft and full stiff on the AGX:

http://www.peterpyce.com/Dampers/Dyno_Data/KYB-vs-KYB.jpg

As you can see, even at full stiff, the agxs really aren't much better than stock shocks.

FWIW, there are extremely effective spring/shock combos out there, Ground Control/Koni Yellows are a perfect example. The only problem is that without the shortened shock bodies, you won't be able to slam the car. Imo, what little you gain from the lower center of gravity, you lose with the shitty macpherson strut geometry you end up with on a slammed car. I'd rock stock height or close to stock height....but then again, I'm old school.

Also, I want to chime in on ride quality.

Ride quality is a product of two major things:

1. Damping
2. Suspension travel


1. Crap shocks are going to be underdamped, and as a result, you be bouncing around like a ping pong several times before the car settles from a bump. Also, crap shocks, like the agx do a terrible job absorbing small bumps (to stiff), but do an equally terrible job handling large bumps (too soft). So stay away from bad shocks.

2. Suspension travel is extremely important, and oft ignored. Lets say you have 300lb springs all around. Now lets say your so low that your literally riding on the shocks bumpstop. Your Spring rates are no longer 300lb, they are actually astronomically higher. Why? Because the shock body is unwilling to let the car go any lower..at this point, the springs aren't suspending the car, the shocks/bumpstops are, so your spring rates are essentially infinite. A lot of people think that spring rates dictate comfort...and they do to a lesser degree...but which do you think would be more comfortable? 1000lb springs with 2 inches of travel, or 200lb springs with .5 inches of travel? Again, the 200lb springs are 200lb for .5 inches...then, they are pegged at infinity.

Coilovers aren't uncomfortable, they do not ride terribly at all. Unfortunately, people lower their cars so much that they themselves are at fault for the ride. A coilover setup with proper travel is actually very controlled, and comfortable.

[Omarius Maximus]

I was being a bit too harsh when I called the agx crap. I'd say that if your running a conservative spring rate at a conservative ride height, ala eibach pro kit, then it can actually work pretty well. It's a good bang for the buck as long as you don't push it too far.

Back in the olden days, I ran the agxs waaay out of their range with shitty shitty progressive springs at waaaay too low a ride height. The ride quality was absolutely terrible, but the agxs lasted. They are extremely reliable. I'd just be careful picking out the spring when running them. :bigok:

[The Chad]

Possitivity in Zilvia?? haha Thanks Omarious Maximus for the remarks.

Honestly I don't even know why I bothered posting in this.
This def has been discussed more times than I can count in just about any and all car forums.