Dyno T28 R/T SR W/Stock ECU, MAF, Injectors

[Sileighty_85]

Ok Well Its been a year since I built my SR and finally got it to a Dyno.

I've been reading alot of threads lately from ppl asking asking safe levels for running an S-14 T28 BB on the Stock MAF and Injectors for the Red top.

So here's the Dyno Results
Pulls were done @ .8Bar
HP-254
TQ-245.5

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/Neil_85/Dyno1.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/Neil_85/Dyno2.jpg

Not Enough Fuel at the Top end So shes runnin lean

So the safest setting for an T28 on Stock S-13 SR Fuel Systems is .8Bar

So I will be upgrading to 550's and droppin in my PFC and Z32MAF soon.


Tried one at 12-14psi but ran lean (First pic shows the lean out of the 12-14 bar pull)

Mods Are (Only Important ones) :P

Red Top
Stock ECU
Stock MAF
Stock 370 Injectors
Stock SR Fuel Pump
Stock SR FPR

Crankshaft Polished and Balanced
Pulsar GTI-R Main Crank Bolts
Nismo Main Crank Bearings
Tomei Micro-Finished Con-Rod Bearings
Eagle H Con-Rods
Wiseco Pistons
Power Enterprise 1.5 mil Metal H/G
ARP Head Studs
Brian Crower Valve Springs with Titanium Retainers
Peak Performance Tubular Manifold
S-14 T-28BB Turbo
HKS W/G Actuator
Greddy Manual Boost Controller
Greddy Front Mount Intercooler
RSR Turbo Back Exhaust

[SoguRacing]

good job! might want to get a aftermarket turbo elbow if you dont already have one as well as a turbo back exhaust. good stuff. should hit 300 with a standalone and bigger injectors. i'll post my dyno runs soon.

[GSXRJJordan]

That's awesome - that's almost my exact setup, without the built bottom end and with a stock headgasket... I was hoping I could do 250whp with the stock MAF/injectors, that's great!

[lok]

were your afr really 13-14?

[Sileighty_85]

were your afr really 13-14?

Only for my .8bar Pull

The first pic shows my .9 - 1.0 bar pull and my .8

Obliviously the .9-1.0bar pull is when the A/F leaned out

the second pic is my .8 bar pull

[lok]

Only for my .8bar Pull

The first pic shows my .9 - 1.0 bar pull and my .8

Obliviously the .9-1.0bar pull is when the A/F leaned out

the second pic is my .8 bar pull

seems kind of lean.

i am running the same setup with stock injectors, z32 maf and a power fc with ziex wideband.

running .8 to .9 and my afr stays 11.5 through redline but I have the fuel map written that way.

it would be nice to see a map trace on the stock fuel map and timing map to see what the stock ecu is doing with that kind of load.

[Flybert]

Only for my .8bar Pull

The first pic shows my .9 - 1.0 bar pull and my .8

Obliviously the .9-1.0bar pull is when the A/F leaned out

the second pic is my .8 bar pull

I'm not sure if you know this but your .8bar pull is ridiculous lean. I wouldn't be surprised if you blow a hole through your piston with AFR's like that.

[steve shadows]

I got around this way back in the day by adjusting the base fuel pressure.

It's a ghetto fix imo at such low outputs but it should affect AFR slightly.

In your case I would just get some 550cc injectors and a power fc.

After all that rebuilding it's not worth blowing anything up for kicks

[Ninjabread]

hahaha

fuck.

my car spikes to 12-13 lbs on stock injectors and ecu with a t28.

gotta get my external gate setup back on, injectors and tune!

[Sileighty_85]

I got around this way back in the day by adjusting the base fuel pressure.

It's a ghetto fix imo at such low outputs but it should affect AFR slightly.

In your case I would just get some 550cc injectors and a power fc.

After all that rebuilding it's not worth blowing anything up for kicks

thats the Plan I have a PFC and Z32MAF I just need to some 550's.

Tust me I spent too much time on this engine I dont wanna blow it up

I only turned up the boost on these pulls to see what my A/F Ratios were



I'm not sure if you know this but your .8bar pull is ridiculous lean. I wouldn't be surprised if you blow a hole through your piston with AFR's like that.

in the first pic there are two pulls on that sheet and differnt boost levels the 16 is the .9-1.0 pull and the 13-14 is the .8bar

[steve shadows]

well if the afrs are right your probably losing power too

[rps13sr20]

Sweet setup. Similar to mine yet opposite too. Pretty much same bolt-on's, stock bottom end, but 555cc injectors and z32 maf.

[Sileighty_85]

well if the afrs are right your probably losing power too

I'm sure I am, I can feel it in the top end.

plus my buddy with basic bolt on stuff a T-28, 550's and Enthalpy tune put down 305rwhp


Im not one to refer to Magazines but one thing i liked was

Project Car did a kinda a build up on an S14 SR dyno'ed it through the stages and at 1.0 Bar they put down 246rwhp

I put down 254 @ .8 Bar So I though that was pretty cool :P

[steve shadows]

If you can " feel it " then your lucky you havent blown your ring lands completely yet.

[Sileighty_85]

If you can " feel it " then your lucky you havent blown your ring lands completely yet.

Meanin stops pulling after 5500ish, It's never broken up, or bogs under boost
I dont run above .8, hell i dont normally go past .5 unless Im passing traffic
I only upped it on that dyno run and few times before when I dropped the engine in and setting the Boost level, ....and a few boost spikes

[Flybert]

Stop running .8bar. At 13-15 AFR's you will blow your motor. Are you running a stock fuel pump? Is your base FPR correct?

[Sileighty_85]

Stop running .8bar. At 13-15 AFR's you will blow your motor. Are you running a stock fuel pump? Is your base FPR correct?

I really dont think my engine is running this lean though.

What he used for mesuring my A/F Ratio was a probe that she stuck in the back of the exhaust. (not sure how accuate this type is)

But Ive been running this setup for over a year now (compression is still 150 across the board)

Engine Temp have never increased under load, gets colder actually.
Spark plugs always has perfect mixture color to them
Engine never bogged, Never Hesitated,
I've never had a problem with this engine

Again Fuel system is stock
Stock ECU
Stock injectors
Stock FPR
Stock SR Fuel Pump

[GSXRJJordan]

The exhaust doesn't magically change from the downpipe to the muffler tip, except n02, CO, etc with cats. Measuring at the tip is fine.

You'll never see spark plug discoloration, because you're not WOT enough of the time to burn the plugs up (unless it's a track-only car).

The fact that you don't hear it detonating at the top is good, but doesn't necessarily mean everything's peachy at .8bar.

I took Steve's advice and found myself an Aeromotive FPR brand new a while ago for like $90 - have all the fittings except the fuel rail adapter. Gonna make sure my Walbro 255 isn't upping my fuel pressure too much (sounds/smells rich a lot of the time), and then kick the base pressure up a few lbs at the strip for my 12psi pulls and see if I survive.

[Sileighty_85]

The exhaust doesn't magically change from the downpipe to the muffler tip, except n02, CO, etc with cats. Measuring at the tip is fine.

I was asking in a sence of accuracy with this probe type


You'll never see spark plug discoloration, because you're not WOT enough of the time to burn the plugs up (unless it's a track-only car).

well i put new plugs in it before the dyno only maybe 900 miles on them so far ived romped on them a good bit durring this time
just checked them yesterday when i installed the Split fire ignition
light tan coloration to them.


I took Steve's advice and found myself an Aeromotive FPR brand new a while ago for like $90 - have all the fittings except the fuel rail adapter. Gonna make sure my Walbro 255 isn't upping my fuel pressure too much (sounds/smells rich a lot of the time), and then kick the base pressure up a few lbs at the strip for my 12psi pulls and see if I survive.

well I will be upgrading the fuel system soon like I said the only time I hit .8 is when I go WOT but thats rare, normally stays under .5 unless passing ppl

I was posting this as information to other ppl running the T-28

[Ninjabread]

It's good information...

I wasn't sure if I should just roll with 10lbs and hope it didn't blow, or upgrade my fuel system. I just bought some 650cc injectors and a z32 maf, gonna get that tuned because I just can't see myself killing a fresh rebuilt motor.

[steve shadows]

I really dont think my engine is running this lean though.

What he used for mesuring my A/F Ratio was a probe that she stuck in the back of the exhaust. (not sure how accuate this type is)


In my experiene the probs in the back are usually no more than 1 voltage of lambda off, even if the thing is reading the outside air.

eitherway your in the red unless your running on C16 and even then I wouldnt tune for that lean. bah.

get a wideband plug it in right after the turbo and take it for a test ride then post the numbers.

[!Zar!]

In my experiene the probs in the back are usually no more than 1 voltage of lambda off, even if the thing is reading the outside air.

eitherway your in the red unless your running on C16 and even then I wouldnt tune for that lean. bah.

get a wideband plug it in right after the turbo and take it for a test ride then post the numbers.

You run the sensor right after the turbo ala 02 location?

What happened to all that talk about running the wideband sensor 18" or whatever down stream from the turbo?

[Sileighty_85]

In my experiene the probs in the back are usually no more than 1 voltage of lambda off, even if the thing is reading the outside air.

eitherway your in the red unless your running on C16 and even then I wouldnt tune for that lean. bah.

get a wideband plug it in right after the turbo and take it for a test ride then post the numbers.

Right on Thanks Steve,

So i guess this means for you guys runnin the T-28s on 370's ya'll should upgrade the fuel systems or at least check ya'lls AFR's.

Yeah I was gonna get the AEM Wide Band with this next paycheck.

[GSXRJJordan]

Cool, thanks for posting Sileighty! I know you were doing it more for us, and we appreciate it!

[Sileighty_85]

Cool, thanks for posting Sileighty! I know you were doing it more for us, and we appreciate it!

Thanks Jeff

I'm Here to help
I hope other ppl will find this info helpful

[bmx22]

what about the t25 would it run less lean than a t28 at same boost,im runing 12 psi on stock turbine for about a year and half but raised my fp to 39psi pluged in. that should be safe right????

[Sileighty_85]

what about the t25 would it run less lean than a t28 at same boost,im runing 12 psi on stock turbine for about a year and half but raised my fp to 39psi pluged in. that should be safe right????

T-25's will be fine. The T-25's are smaller and push less volume of air than the T-28,
so the T-25 @ 12 psi will require less fuel then the T-28 would at 12 psi

[bmx22]

thats what i thougt right on for clearing that up. kinda like whan i put s4 cams on way to much air and not eneough fuel for stock injectors, maf,and turbo. ended up taking them out......

[amaank]

Was there any correction factor on those pulls? If so, what was it?

Thanks

[Sileighty_85]

Was there any correction factor on those pulls? If so, what was it?

Thanks

Only Boost corrections made,
These pulls were for information purposes only, No Tuning

1st pull was .9-1.0bar, saw it was running lean so boost was lowered to .8 for the 2nd and 3rd pulls

[steve shadows]

You run the sensor right after the turbo ala 02 location?

What happened to all that talk about running the wideband sensor 18" or whatever down stream from the turbo?

for 100 yards? or one dyno pull its fine if you have stock turbo elbow.

Otherwise put it AT LEAST 18 inches to 1 METER away from the turbine wheel.

If you can weld in a bung. But just for death check on engine you can shove it in the elbow (if you have the fat 02 thread) and check it for one or two pulls down the street.

It's heat that kills widebands, so you should use a heat sink if your using them for extending periods of time (ie daily driving, race track etc).

[!Zar!]

Hmm.

Ok.

<3

[95KA-Turbo]

I know this is an old thread, but I like it when I search for things to have all of the answers in one place.

I just got a baseline dyno for my S14 SR20 - which, as you know, has a 'T28' turbo and 370cc injectors factory.


Baseline dyno before the cams go in:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c51/95KA-Turbo/steven.jpg

The red is ~14psi and the blue is ~12psi....the air:fuel is too shady on the 14psi so 12psi is were it is staying, haha. This is SAE corrected and on a dynojet dyno.

This is a stock S14 SR20 with HKS filter, random jdm tubular manifold, 3" elbow/downpipe/cat and Trust DD exhaust (for NA SR), as well as an Evo 8 intercooler mounted in front of the radiator for super short intercooler pipes.



From the looks of the a:f on the red top, the S14 MAF/ECU is better equipped for higher boost on the stock turbo at higher RPMs (which always seemed obvious to me but now it is documented proof).

[slider2828]

There is a thread in this section for 2871r's but has all the tech specs and thread you are looking for.... Man that looks a little lean at some points...

What part of the MAFS are you looking at? MAFS is measured in Voltage and thats what it is a measurement to meter air nothing more.... So in order to tell what your mafs is doing, you have to look at the Voltage for AirIn... which a dyno won't tell you.

[ROIDMONKEY]

what r u waiting to get injectors.. u got all the other mods and running 370cc!!! NOOOOOO go get 740cc NOW and a stand alone ecu

[95KA-Turbo]

S14 SRs come with 370s...the motor is stock (minus FMIC, intake and exhaust). I just always wanted to compare a S14 SR to a S13 with T28, and this thread had the S13 info so I was just adding the S14 stuff.

740s are overkill for my stock turbo/easy cams/basically everything I have on the car. I also can't afford stand alone right now, so I'll probably get e-manage and some S15 injectors and work with that.

[slider2828]

At 14 psi bro you are running close to 100% Injector Duty Cycle. that is what he is talking about... you should know better.... Bad example

[ROIDMONKEY]

S14 SRs come with 370s...the motor is stock (minus FMIC, intake and exhaust). I just always wanted to compare a S14 SR to a S13 with T28, and this thread had the S13 info so I was just adding the S14 stuff.

740s are overkill for my stock turbo/easy cams/basically everything I have on the car. I also can't afford stand alone right now, so I'll probably get e-manage and some S15 injectors and work with that.
not overkill AT ALL always more than u gonna need near future. u can always adjust for whatchu need dude.
i was running a T28(s15) with 740cc nismo. no problem. i made a bit over 300WHP

[95KA-Turbo]

I guess I should point out I run 10-12psi regularly and that the dyno was just to see what the air:fuel looks like. I don't believe my boost gauge is extremely accurate so right now it reads ~10psi, so I assume it could be 11 or 12psi (because when I take the boost controller off it reads 5-6psi rather then 7). On the dyno runs the boost gauge read 12psi and 14psi....so those numbers could technically be from 14 and 16psi. The face of my boost gauge is convex so it looks different from different angles....not ideal but I use it to make sure I'm running around where it should be - rather then spiking up at 20psi, etc.

Again to clarify, I don't run the car at 14psi! It would be a short lived motor otherwise. I just wanted to directly compare it to the red top in this thread.

[blksylv]

im also gonna be running an s13 sr w a t28 and how would 550s, z32 maf and a safc fair, dont really have enough cash for a standalone at the moment, would that be safe for the moment, i also have an aem wideband

[blksylv]

anyone......

[G240]

You probably would be better of with the Stock MAF and low boost before trying to run a Z32 MAF untuned. I really don't know enough of the SAFC to say if it would compensate for the Z32 MAF. Better to be safe than sorry.

BTW are you tuning it yourself with the SAFC or having a tuner do it? Also do you have an upgraded fuel pump and a FPR? Just curious

[blksylv]

i would probably be doing it myself for the moment until i got a chance to hit a dyno with it, itll also have a 255 walbro on it, the safc will allow me to run the z32

[G240]

How about a FPR?

If you feel comfortable messing with the SAFC and it WILL compensate for the Z32. I would think the only issue at this point is making sure you have enough fuel so that you don't lean out.

Good Luck.

[blksylv]

was goin to stick with the stock one but i was hoping the 550s and the walbro which the safc to manage it would suffice for the fuel for the time being

[95KA-Turbo]

I wouldn't run 550cc injectors on a SAFC. Get some S15 injectors, keep your stock MAF, and get it tuned on a dyno with the SAFC by someone who knows what they're doing.

When you say you want to keep your stock fuel pump, are you talking stock Silvia pump or stock KA pump? There's a pretty big difference there. The stock silvia pump should be fine with S15 injectors...but I'm not 100% sure on that because I have not been able to find the LPH rating on it.

[G240]

When you say you want to keep your stock fuel pump, are you talking stock Silvia pump or stock KA pump?

He was referring to a Stock FPR.

[95KA-Turbo]

Oh, a stock FPR is fine. haha

[blksylv]

kewl thanx for the input guys

[insanemaniac]

I wouldn't run 550cc injectors on a SAFC. Get some S15 injectors, keep your stock MAF, and get it tuned on a dyno with the SAFC by someone who knows what they're doing.

When you say you want to keep your stock fuel pump, are you talking stock Silvia pump or stock KA pump? There's a pretty big difference there. The stock silvia pump should be fine with S15 injectors...but I'm not 100% sure on that because I have not been able to find the LPH rating on it.

SFP will get you in trouble, especially if its got some age and isn't running the best efficiency. If you are up grading to anything more then 340cc injectors get a tomei/walbro tomei easier to install...

Unless you have access to plenty of dyno time, wait to get all your hardware in before you get it tuned on dyno by someone who knows what they are doing, you won't regret it. the last thing you want is blow your motor when your doing something fun like a big slide or pedal to the metal on the back straight of a track =)

[bik]

wich one is a safe afr??

I have stock black top with stop t25, 255 fuel pump... when i rise to 14 psi it goes down to 11 psi tru the red line, my afr says around 12.5, i heard that is a good safe afr ratio is right?

i use mexican 91 octane fuel

is this safe? O_o

ps. my english sucks ;)

[95KA-Turbo]

12.5 is safe - basically as long as it doesn't go too far over 13 for an extended period of time you'll be fine. Mine got into the 14s on 14psi on my S14 SR (I'm only state this because my picture is not working above because I maxed out my photobucket bandwidth for march, haha!)

T25s shit out at about 14psi, so it will only maintain it for a short period of time (but it gives you a nice torque curve, haha).


Your English isn't bad at all...you write better on the forum then some people I know write in school!

[S13 curtis]

wich one is a safe afr??

I have stock black top with stop t25, 255 fuel pump... when i rise to 14 psi it goes down to 11 psi tru the red line, my afr says around 12.5, i heard that is a good safe afr ratio is right?

i use mexican 91 octane fuel

is this safe? O_o

ps. my english sucks ;)

:coolugh:you might wanna grab a Safc and add some more fuel.

[blksylv]

well sorry for bringing a thread back from the dead but finally got the car dynoed yesterday and it made 267whp on a stock s13 sr with a s14 t28, nismo fpr,walbro 255, z32 maf, safc1,fmic and 3" exhaust. the afrs under boost were around 11.98 on 11.5 psi.

[Sileighty_85]

well sorry for bringing a thread back from the dead but finally got the car dynoed yesterday and it made 267whp on a stock s13 sr with a s14 t28, nismo fpr,walbro 255, z32 maf, safc1,fmic and 3" exhaust. the afrs under boost were around 11.98 on 11.5 psi.

whats your injector duty cycle? more than likely its around 100%
Which mean your injectors will probably crap out soon

[blksylv]

whats your injector duty cycle? more than likely its around 100%
Which mean your injectors will probably crap out soon

honestly i dont know wat the duty cycle was and 550s and a tuned ecu are in the works at the moment. on 10psi it made 252 and the afrs were in the mid 10s low 11s