Lsd

[S13_marine]

I searched for an hour... Maybe i'm just being blind. Does anyone make a "solid" or "gear type" LSD for an S13? What i'm finding are all clutchtype. I dont want the hassle of a clutch type, and i figure the gear type would be a little stronger and last longer as there's no plates to wear out... correct me if im wrong here. :confused:

[Silverbullet]

S15 Silvias came with gear type LSDs. The down side to them is if one wheel is lifted off the ground or on ice, it acts like an open diff.

By solid, do you mean solid axle? No one sells them but there are a ton of ppl around here who will weld the open differential for you. It's the best bang for the buck IMO. It acts like a super hardcore 2 way LSD except there is absolutely no leeway at all other than directional tire flex.

[MELLO*SOS]

^ he pretty much answered your questions.. Use the search term helical instead of solid or gear type LSD.

Welded sounds like what you're looking for, it's super cheap and pretty effective. I use the Kaaz 2 way clutch pack LSD and love it, don't know what hassle you're referring to, aside from changing the diff oil before events.

[S13_marine]

1: how long do the clutches last in say, a Tomei or a Kaaz?

2: The gear types are typically stronger?

[Z33dori]

the last for a good while ....def a couple of years as long as u change the fluid when your suppose too....


as for stronger, it depends. If u do a welded diff and get a bad weld job no, b/c the welds will snap. other than that, im not to sure on the S1 helical diff.


what are you looking to build the car for.

[GSXRJJordan]

I've had my Tomei for a year or so, bought it used about a year old, and change out the fluid every two oil changes or so. I've had a welded diff to compare it to, and it hooks just as hard, and just as predictably. I would never go welded after having a quality 2way.

As noted above, helical diffs are available from S15s, but they're expensive and you can still get stuck with one wheel off the ground (a serious worry for those with low, low cars).

[S13_marine]

im building the car for street use mainly, canyon runs, may see some track time if i can get back out to mojave. but, i was honestly looking for a 1.5 way, not a 2 way. Any suggestions on the best 1.5 way clutch type? is there any aftermarket helical type LSD's? Or only the ones from the S15? I know they make 'em for like mustangs....

[Z33dori]

I believe cusco makes a very nice 1.5way clutch type

not sure of Tomei, but i believe Kazz does 2.

i take it your build a car more towards grip than drift....but i wasn't sure b.c of your avatar

[S13_marine]

i'm into the whole drift scene... but i'm just trying to be as sensible as i can for this build. there's not too much to "drift" out in Yuma, and i'm not experienced enought to go out and try to drift some canyons, kill myself? No thanks. So for right now, i'm looking for a mild build, something that will be "streetable", responsive, and agile...

[S13_marine]

besides, i should be able to go out and practice in a parking lot, or something like that if i wanted to wit a 1.5 way without f*cking it up... right?

[azndoc]

I say just get a Tomei 2 way.

If you want to do drifting then it's what you want to have, a 2 way.

If you want to do grip then a 2 way is fine also. 1.5 would be better for grip but hey you could have best of both worlds with a 2 way.

1.5 is driftable also, but 2 way is like cheating.

Unless you suck of course. Then just keep on practicing.

But take that shit on the track.

There's lots of events in az.

Even though az is lame town.

I hate az.

[S13_marine]

yep, yuma is good for riding dirt bikes, cause its close to glamis... but driving sucks. there's a few open roads you can cut loose on, but they're straight for the most part..

[S13_marine]

i'm pretty set on they T-Trax for the clutch type... i was just weighing my options i guess you could call it.

[Z33dori]

straight road = perfect for Manji practice

or feint practice....


or just cuttie 180s and J-turns

[murda-c]

if you get stuck with your helical just pull the ebrake a bit.

[clark]

i mean you can go for helical, wh ich i was going to go with myself, but once you get the axle stubs and the damn thing shipped to you, it'll be around the same amount as a clutch type kaaz or used tomei.

you can also look into quaife. they have ne similar to the S15 torsen.

[aNskY]

how much power would you guys expect a welded to hold?

[azndoc]

how much power would you guys expect a welded to hold?

I would say it all depends on the welding job and how many points perhaps.

But if you afford to build a high hp power motor then you should be able to spend some that money on a quality LSD

[Dousan_PG]

more like what do you expect your axles to hold
the diff will be fine. r200 is strong as hell
if its welded good no worries
your axles will blow up before your ring/pinion do probably.

[spirit]

im building the car for street use mainly, canyon runs, may see some track time if i can get back out to mojave. but, i was honestly looking for a 1.5 way, not a 2 way. Any suggestions on the best 1.5 way clutch type? is there any aftermarket helical type LSD's? Or only the ones from the S15? I know they make 'em for like mustangs....

OBX makes one (quick google, $425):
http://www.erzperformance.com/product_p/obxlsds13.htm

If noise is an issue, helical is quiet. Otherwise your better off with a clutch LSD. (imho)

[xsparc]

has anyone ever used an OBX diff? i know most of thier stuff is crap so what about this?

[infinitexsound]

gear type like a Detroit locker? ehehe....... for what u wanna do... get a 2way... helicals cost just as much as a 2way.. might was well get the clutch type...

[Z33dori]

has anyone ever used an OBX diff? i know most of thier stuff is crap so what about this?

do you really have to ask


simply put - "you get what you pay for"

so if you really wanna take the chance, but i say fuck that and just rock a welded diff.

[GSXRJJordan]

I originally thought I'd be trading off "drivability" for "drifting" with my 2-way, but I've come to realize that good 2-ways offer you the best of both worlds. I can accelerate out of corners pretty goddamned hard before locking the diff and initiating a powerslide, and coming in to canyon corners it takes a lot (like a badly executed downshift) to get the back end unsettled under braking/turning.

Do it. Tomei 2 way :)

[dino6192]

It is like a never ending argument about which is better with welded and 2ways it seems because of how much money you pay to sacrifice performance. If you are looking for doing some canyon runs or hard driving every now and then and daily your car I would go with the S15 you where talking about. after daily and track time with these diffs. .....WELDED= cheap, unpredictable compared to other diffs and unsafe if the welds are bad but gets the job done,
2 way= 100% control over the diff and fun on the track but bad for daily and could be a deadly if it locks on you in a canyon!
S15= SMOOTH ride, very nice for daily and PERFECT for the canyons and twisties. gear oil is alot less expensive than 2 way as well.

[scooz14]

it really all depends on what you ant to do with the car. a drift car should use a clutch style diff, or a welded diff, where as a grip car should be using a gear style diff.

i have an obx helical diff that has over 20k on it with not a single problem. i inspected it, and installed it to proper specs and i love the thing.

[g6civcx]

I searched for an hour...

Good for you. Most people don't bother trying to search. +1.

Does anyone make a "solid" or "gear type" LSD for an S13?

I personally have NO experience with this type simply because the 2-way works so well.

What i'm finding are all clutchtype. I dont want the hassle of a clutch type, and i figure the gear type would be a little stronger and last longer as there's no plates to wear out... correct me if im wrong here. :confused:

What hassles are you talking about: noise, maintenance, reliability?

I'm on my 3rd season with the Tomei 2way on my daily. No issue so far. The noise goes away after the first 5,000 miles or so. Still locks up nicely and does what I want.

Just make sure you change your fluid regularly. I try to change mine every other oil change, but I've been lazy and do it every 3-4 oil changes.

But that was before my fuel cell when I had the stock fuel tank. Now with the fuel cell, there is much more clearance so I don't mind changing the fluid more often.


As far as welded diffs go, it's highly dependent on the quality of the work. I've seen welded diffs break (probably from bad weld jobs), and ones that take a lot of abuse and keep on going.

Like said above, the diff is extremely strong and I haven't seen one break. If anything, the axles will go before the diff.

I'm confident putting 300+ ft-lbs on the diff from my V8 daily, and wouldn't hesitate to run up to 500 ft-lbs on my diff (Tomei 2 way into open diff housing). 300 ft-lbs of torque from a V8 is much different than 300 ft-lbs from an SR that revs higher. V8 = instant torque, goes without saying :naughty:


Either way just maintain what you have. I don't think you can go wrong with either if you maintain religiously. Good luck.

[infinitexsound]

V8 = instant torque im intrested to know if you lift the front end....

[g6civcx]

im intrested to know if you lift the front end....

I suppose if I lowered the rear and set it on full soft, and set the front on full height and full hard and dialed up the spring preload, I could do bunny hops :naughty:

But I don't have enough traction with 205s on the rear to do a proper wheelstand.

[timster]

It is like a never ending argument about which is better with welded and 2ways it seems because of how much money you pay to sacrifice performance. If you are looking for doing some canyon runs or hard driving every now and then and daily your car I would go with the S15 you where talking about. after daily and track time with these diffs. .....WELDED= cheap, unpredictable compared to other diffs and unsafe if the welds are bad but gets the job done,
2 way= 100% control over the diff and fun on the track but bad for daily and could be a deadly if it locks on you in a canyon!
S15= SMOOTH ride, very nice for daily and PERFECT for the canyons and twisties. gear oil is alot less expensive than 2 way as well.

Yeah, welded diffs are unpredictable as all balls. You never know whether it's going to be locked or locked.

[SleepySR]

I found this and added 2 - 1.0mm shims to my stock Z32 LSD and it works amazing , People that have driven or rode with me at drift events think its a 2 way!

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Diydiff-Shimming-R33-Gt-t164288.html&mode=threaded&pid=3740295

[KuhnDawgAK47]

has anyone ever used an OBX diff? i know most of thier stuff is crap so what about this?

I had the obx, it was a quaiffe knock off and worked well actually, i bought it real cheap and just assumed it would suffice for the time. The obx is a 1.5 and so only locks on throttle which makes drifting a little more right foot heavy, but it was adequate for me. I have 275whp.

The obx negatives are you have to buy bearings from nissan and shim the diff yourself, the tolerances arent like kaaz and others that just drop in. You need to recalibrate the preload and backlash with the obx unit

[sldbyuramg]

300ft-lbs is not different in a V8 vs a 4cyl. it just FEELS different because it is reached at a lower rpm

[Silverbullet]

Yeah, welded diffs are unpredictable as all balls. You never know whether it's going to be locked or locked.


wtf are you talking about kid. it is ALWAYS "locked", and it is extremely predictable. Its only unpredictable if its your first time out there and your just first learning the dynamics of your car without full traction, but it is the same story with a 2 way LSD.

The advantage a 2 way has over a welded diff is there is leeway. If you need to correct yourself and need to regain traction again, it is quicker to do so with a 2 way by disengaging the clutch and unlocking the diff. With a welded, it stays "locked" all the time, unless the welds break.

[Captain_Ron80]

He was being sarcastic towards a previous post...

[g6civcx]

300ft-lbs is not different in a V8 vs a 4cyl. it just FEELS different because it is reached at a lower rpm

While the bolded portion may be true, the rest is not necessarily true. It depends on how the two motors are tuned, but by nature V8s exerts torque more quickly.

Generally it is not torque per se that break stuff; it's the rate of change of torque. Remember that torque is angular force, which is mass times angular acceleration. The rate of change in acceleration is called jerk.

Ask structural engineers to explain it to you because I can't do a good job at it.


One simple comparison is just look at the slope of the torque curve. Another way is to measure response to throttle input.

If accelerated slowly and smoothly, a shaft that can withstand 1,000 ft-lbs will snap if 300 ft-lbs is applied with a high jerk.

That's the extent of my understanding. So if you want to learn more you have to do research on your own.

[timster]

wtf are you talking about kid. it is ALWAYS "locked", and it is extremely predictable. Its only unpredictable if its your first time out there and your just first learning the dynamics of your car without full traction, but it is the same story with a 2 way LSD.

The advantage a 2 way has over a welded diff is there is leeway. If you need to correct yourself and need to regain traction again, it is quicker to do so with a 2 way by disengaging the clutch and unlocking the diff. With a welded, it stays "locked" all the time, unless the welds break.

Your sarcasm detector is obviously broken. The other kid said they're unpredictable, and I was busy letting him make an ass out of himself until you ruined it. :hsdance: for failing.

[Silverbullet]

damn it, sarcasm detector repairs are almost as expensive as gaydar repairs.

[timster]

Yeah, mine was beeping off the charts - I thought it was malfunctioning, then you posted.

/End shitting on the kids LSD thread.

[flip3d]

i read a while ago on honda tech that the OBX lsds arent bad. you just have to take it apart, clean it up, and torque everything evenly before you use it.

[timster]

i read a while ago on honda tech that the OBX lsds arent bad. you just have to take it apart, clean it up, and torque everything evenly before you use it.

I've read the same thing, that there are a few soft spots inside that can be patched up with better hardware. I still wouldn't trust one though.

[guitaraholic]

I had the obx, it was a quaiffe knock off and worked well actually, i bought it real cheap and just assumed it would suffice for the time. The obx is a 1.5 and so only locks on throttle which makes drifting a little more right foot heavy, but it was adequate for me. I have 275whp.


I believe that any HLSD is really like a one way, if you want to call it that. It acts like an open most of the time, except when its needed (ie powering out of the apex of a turn, or launching), and if memory serves me right, it doesn't really "lock", more that it sends power to the wheel with the most grip.

[SILVIA_KIDs14.5]

im building the car for street use mainly, canyon runs, may see some track time if i can get back out to mojave. but, i was honestly looking for a 1.5 way, not a 2 way. Any suggestions on the best 1.5 way clutch type? is there any aftermarket helical type LSD's? Or only the ones from the S15? I know they make 'em for like mustangs....
ATS/Carbonetics are great very smooth and not to much nosie as most metal ones:rawk:
http://www.nopionline.com/nopistore/dsp_parts.cfm?vpcid=390&vcatid=1&vcatyear=1990&vmodelid=120&vmakeid=270&vL1id=0&&vtitle=1990%20NISSAN%20240SX&vn=0