What are good suspensions and some good brakes?

[bboyswoosh87]

I want to buy some good brakes and a good suspension. I been looking at Stances Gr + anybody have these can you guys tell me if they are good, I heard they are better then the Tein basics and Teins SS is that true? As far as brakes go I want to buy some Brembo Rotors and Hawk pads is that decent setup for a s13? I'm going to use this car as my daily driver and I commute pretty far I want some good brakes and a pretty good suspension so I can go to the track once a while. Tell me your guys opinion I would really appreciate it.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

As for the brakes, are you upgrading the calipers? And what are your future HP goals? If it's under around 275 and it's a DD you should consider a Q45 upgrade. It's a pretty basic swap (for the front that is) and I plan on doing one myself here in a few weeks. I don't know how much Brembo Rotors are off the top of my head but I imagine they're around $300? For that you could get some rebuilt Q45 calipers, decent pads, and rotors (front). Just something to look into, but good luck with whatever you choose.

[bboyswoosh87]

Sounds intresting I'll look into that because its scary driving on the highways.

[fliprayzin240sx]

I want to buy some good brakes and a good suspension. I been looking at Stances Gr + anybody have these can you guys tell me if they are good, I heard they are better then the Tein basics and Teins SS is that true? As far as brakes go I want to buy some Brembo Rotors and Hawk pads is that decent setup for a s13? I'm going to use this car as my daily driver and I commute pretty far I want some good brakes and a pretty good suspension so I can go to the track once a while. Tell me your guys opinion I would really appreciate it.

Man, before you get flamed till Kingdom come, click on the search button, type up Stance and spend 15 mins skimming thru what people have said on the suspension. Nobody will spoon feed you info in here...if you hit a wall that you absolutely cant figure it out after spending hours on it, then ask us...

As far as Tein Basics, Anything is better than the basics, hell even Megan Racing is better than the basics...

[4thHorse]

Sounds intresting I'll look into that because its scary driving on the highways.

This is a joke right?. You want suspension and breaks for DD and maybe track use, but driving on the highway is scary.

[piranhamatt]

I think he means stock brakes on the highway are scary. Mine are fine, but I think that's what he meant.

[bdjaj12345]

tein sucks!! i installed a set on my s13 and the rt front broke !!! they said to bad out $1800! that really sucks

[slider2828]

Tein sucks..... Good breaks, upgrade to project mu.... You have stock rotors and calipers, try better pads first and see if it is enough for you....

THen go q45's but if you in the market and replacing shit you might as well go 300 but you need to get a Break master cylinder.... oh wellz....

[jussjepbrox]

stance is the SHITXX it also depends on your buddget its allbout the dolla dolla bill yall

cheap set up good for DD

go to pick n pull or local junk yard find j30 or q45 brakes shouldbe more than $100 its 2piston way way better then stock

hawk pads for those

megans, ksport, stance, kts, dont buy used coils new is worth it in the long run

oh yah welded diff, harder launch, easy donut, better grip, blahh blahh

want one ill hook u up pm me

[a_ahmed]

Couple of things to consider...

In regards to brakes, I thought stock brakes were suicide on wheels too, while others thought they were 'great'... but either these people didn't drive some better cars or well I just don't know. I've had my car now for three years and well let me say a few things. Also keep in mind I have no ABS (and well after you get better at it honestly I prefer a non abs car but its not for the light hearted):

If you do keep stock brakes here's a few things to check. Check that your calipers are not seized, replace the old rotors (should be cheap) most especially replace the brake fluid with some nice dot4 or better (stay away from silicone stuff), and most importantly replace the brake pads that might be used up. hawk HPS pads should be descent for DD. Track.. don't even think about it, even my HP+ pads on blank 300zx rotors manage to be faded but they are after all for autox... And honestly you're scaring me with how you talk to even think about track time yet hehe.

I upgraded to aluminum 300zx brakes front and rear almost immediately, stainless steel lines, bigger MC, better fluid (ran motul's stuff but I kind of don't like it I tried a few different things). I first ran some ebc red stuff pads and really disliked them (front) while HPS rear... that shit sucked... then I went to Hawk HP+ pads in the front.. that's what I currently have on the car as well... the car is awesome except that HP+ pads have an anoying on/off feeling... at higher speeds with sudden instant stops its okay, but at lower speeds its a sudden bump, bump, crappy crappy CRAPPY modulation, no good in my opinion. I've tried a few different setups as well, but overall I wanted something better. If I were to stay with 300zx brakes I would have went with BHP CR6 pads... I crave that pad...

I realized all the money spent on used 300zx stuff was a waste of money (in my opinion) so recently for my next car rebuild I got myself arizona z car willwood brakes 6pot fronts and 4 pot rears... can't quite comment on it yet as my car is parked waiting for it's next overhaul.

In my opinion 300zx alum brakes should have been stock to begin with.. and surely enough they are on later s14 and s15 Japanese models... Given good pads and brake fluid 300zx are plenty for track, daily, etc... if you want more extreme setups you gotta pay and you probably won't even need them unless you drive on track or like a maniac or well.. you just enjoy to have a car feel that is superior but thats why expensive cars are well.. expensive, don't get too carried away. Like I said if I were to stay with 300zx brakes I'd get some BHP CR6 pads...

These are my opinions based on my limited experiences...

In regards to dampers, well... save yourself the money and build a koni yellow with ground control coilover setup instead of all the chinese/taiwanese or even japanese coilovers out there. Tein he flex or whatever they are called are descent i've driven it, but I still think its ultimately crap, it just feels.. i dont know... its just crap at the end of the day and you won't know unless you've driven in something else. Aanything else I wouldn't bother afterwards honestly. MR, Stance, Godspeed (lol), whatever's out there, all the same shit. If I were to rethink my car build path I would have gone with Koni Yellows + GC coilover setup to begin. Above that the more extreme stuff is things like Koni 86xx but that's something probably not for you yet. Above that well you gotta pay SERIOUS dollars and again that is absolutely not necessary unless you're a track freak (I would think anyways).

If I were you I'd just get 300zx front and rear brakes, replace the brake lines as they may be damaged or just plain old and the rubber stuff sucks for pedal feel, good pads (Bhp CR6 hint hint), good brake fluid (they sell some nice fluid too I am going to try soon), and for coilovers build a koni yellow GC setup believe me it won't dissapoint... Don't fall for the 'they are soft/not stiff' or not 'jdm tyte' crap. Being rock hard doesn't mean shit, it just means having a car that's rock hard literally rock crap. The purpose of dampers is to ABSORB the bumps, the irregularities, etc... it's just that the majority has been brainwashed (myself included initially) that harder is better (drift crowd, etc...)

Edit: Also something no one mentioned since you asked 'what are some good suspensions' lol uhm... speaking of suspension, you could also dish out money on arm replacments...SPL, peakperformance>everything else>ebay haha. Don't go with polyurethane stuff go straight to heim joint stuff. I didn't realize polyurethane stuff has to be greased/lubricated all the time... plus something I recently learned, it causes increased friction which is not good for the work of the suspension... I wish I just went to heim jointed stuff from the start...

In my opinion however again, I think this might be a little over your head. I would rather sort your car out first that it runs okay... you might have a busted car in many respects (fixes here and there) causing your car to feel not okay.

Also keep one thing in mind... a 240 is a 20 some year old car with 20 some year old technology. It's a good car, but don't expect it to be as good as say a new 350z, or m3 or whatever, you have to spend the money to make the car faster/better in feel/etc... some people don't realize that. Also more than anything else... DONT cheapen out.. you WILL DEFINETELY pay more in the long run. I learned the hard way :)

[J90lude]

Couple of things to consider...

In regards to brakes, I thought stock brakes were suicide on wheels too, while others thought they were 'great'... but either these people didn't drive some better cars or well I just don't know. I've had my car now for three years and well let me say a few things. Also keep in mind I have no ABS (and well after you get better at it honestly I prefer a non abs car but its not for the light hearted):

If you do keep stock brakes here's a few things to check. Check that your calipers are not seized, replace the old rotors (should be cheap) most especially replace the brake fluid with some nice dot4 or better (stay away from silicone stuff), and most importantly replace the brake pads that might be used up. hawk HPS pads should be descent for DD. Track.. don't even think about it, even my HP+ pads on blank 300zx rotors manage to be faded but they are after all for autox... And honestly you're scaring me with how you talk to even think about track time yet hehe.

I upgraded to aluminum 300zx brakes front and rear almost immediately, stainless steel lines, bigger MC, better fluid (ran motul's stuff but I kind of don't like it I tried a few different things). I first ran some ebc red stuff pads and really disliked them (front) while HPS rear... that shit sucked... then I went to Hawk HP+ pads in the front.. that's what I currently have on the car as well... the car is awesome except that HP+ pads have an anoying on/off feeling... at higher speeds with sudden instant stops its okay, but at lower speeds its a sudden bump, bump, crappy crappy CRAPPY modulation, no good in my opinion. I've tried a few different setups as well, but overall I wanted something better. If I were to stay with 300zx brakes I would have went with BHP CR6 pads... I crave that pad...

I realized all the money spent on used 300zx stuff was a waste of money (in my opinion) so recently for my next car rebuild I got myself arizona z car willwood brakes 6pot fronts and 4 pot rears... can't quite comment on it yet as my car is parked waiting for it's next overhaul.

In my opinion 300zx alum brakes should have been stock to begin with.. and surely enough they are on later s14 and s15 Japanese models... Given good pads and brake fluid 300zx are plenty for track, daily, etc... if you want more extreme setups you gotta pay and you probably won't even need them unless you drive on track or like a maniac or well.. you just enjoy to have a car feel that is superior but thats why expensive cars are well.. expensive, don't get too carried away. Like I said if I were to stay with 300zx brakes I'd get some BHP CR6 pads...

These are my opinions based on my limited experiences...

In regards to dampers, well... save yourself the money and build a koni yellow with ground control coilover setup instead of all the chinese/taiwanese or even japanese coilovers out there. Tein he flex or whatever they are called are descent i've driven it, but I still think its ultimately crap, it just feels.. i dont know... its just crap at the end of the day and you won't know unless you've driven in something else. Aanything else I wouldn't bother afterwards honestly. MR, Stance, Godspeed (lol), whatever's out there, all the same shit. If I were to rethink my car build path I would have gone with Koni Yellows + GC coilover setup to begin. Above that the more extreme stuff is things like Koni 86xx but that's something probably not for you yet. Above that well you gotta pay SERIOUS dollars and again that is absolutely not necessary unless you're a track freak (I would think anyways).

If I were you I'd just get 300zx front and rear brakes, replace the brake lines as they may be damaged or just plain old and the rubber stuff sucks for pedal feel, good pads (Bhp CR6 hint hint), good brake fluid (they sell some nice fluid too I am going to try soon), and for coilovers build a koni yellow GC setup believe me it won't dissapoint... Don't fall for the 'they are soft/not stiff' or not 'jdm tyte' crap. Being rock hard doesn't mean shit, it just means having a car that's rock hard literally rock crap. The purpose of dampers is to ABSORB the bumps, the irregularities, etc... it's just that the majority has been brainwashed (myself included initially) that harder is better (drift crowd, etc...)

Edit: Also something no one mentioned since you asked 'what are some good suspensions' lol uhm... speaking of suspension, you could also dish out money on arm replacments...SPL, peakperformance>everything else>ebay haha. Don't go with polyurethane stuff go straight to heim joint stuff. I didn't realize polyurethane stuff has to be greased/lubricated all the time... plus something I recently learned, it causes increased friction which is not good for the work of the suspension... I wish I just went to heim jointed stuff from the start...

In my opinion however again, I think this might be a little over your head. I would rather sort your car out first that it runs okay... you might have a busted car in many respects (fixes here and there) causing your car to feel not okay.

Also keep one thing in mind... a 240 is a 20 some year old car with 20 some year old technology. It's a good car, but don't expect it to be as good as say a new 350z, or m3 or whatever, you have to spend the money to make the car faster/better in feel/etc... some people don't realize that. Also more than anything else... DONT cheapen out.. you WILL DEFINETELY pay more in the long run. I learned the hard way :)

Datz Good Sh!T:coold:

[alkemyst]

some decent tires and 300zx brakes (even 26mm) will be beyond most here's needs.

I think the best bang for buck is whatever the best tire you can afford is (and afford to replace every 10k or so ;) ), some KTS/Stance coilovers, and 300ZX brakes (just the fronts if budget)...slap on some HPS or equivalent street pads and call it a day and go drive. If you are finding these pads are letting you down...move up.

I went with R33 GTST brakes...it's going to suck come rotor time in front as the 30mmx296mm rotors aren't as popular. I was supposed to be sent GTR brakes but the asshole screwed me. Fortunately it was a fair price still, but there was other problems. Running HPS 300zx pads. With doing all four corners I picked up a 16/15 MBC for ebay and some ATE fluid. SPL for lines. Used the R33 GTST ebrake cables for a direct fit on my S14 (just transfer your stock brackets over).

I went with KTS Beta's from SPL Parts and they are a very good street coilover even outside of cost, can handle track very adequately. They are not Ohlins by any means, but they are a fraction of the price.

I am rolling on Goodyear Assymetrics now, got them on a killer sale. Great tires esp now with rain everyday.

I don't think I need more than the above unless I was tracking the car regularly...then I'd just pick up an extra set of pads, some racing tires/cheap wheels and leave it at that. Probably be a few years before I was better than the car.

[transient]

As for the dampers, I've been looking for a while and I ended up going with KYB AGX shocks / struts. I had them previously and they do a great job. They're adjustable gas dampers, so you'll have more even handling characteristics when everything heats up after a while of driving. This is important if you're in a warm climate, too, of course. I think the Koni's are gas as well, so I don't think you could go wrong with either of them. If you go with KYBs, though, look for a set on ebay and you'll save yourself about $100.00.

If you're hard set on full coilovers, I'd go for JIC Magic (gas as well).

[bboyswoosh87]

Its funny i upgraded my brakes i now have 300zx brakes they good but i think i need some new rotors because everytime i brake my steering wheel shakes. I dont want to resurface them though I want better stopping power since i commute 40 miles to work and back and the freeway is full of people who cant drive. As far as coilovers i haven't bought any yet. My mind is set on buying the stance for sure then getting my sr20, ya! Now all I need is to learn how to put in the coilovers because i never done it before and I also need time.

[alkemyst]

stock rotors would be more than adequate for that...what pads you using?

Coilovers are simple, much easier than doing lowering springs.

[bboyswoosh87]

Some misc. brake pads that i got from my dad. I might buy some hawk brake pads though. Hmm i thought the brembo rotors were better because they dont over heat when braking too much.

[alkemyst]

Compared to the stock rotors you are not going to get any advantage with a Brembo one. It's all based on size. If you are talking x-drill/slotted, you aren't going to see any advantage at all on the street.

300zx brakes are already going to be overkill in a street set up, stop and go traffic is hardly a braking test.

For stopping power it's going to be mostly tires and pads.

[aznpoopy]

brembos are stock replacement blanks. any brake rotor will do, including brembo and whatever autozone/pepboys sells. they are all priced roughly the same so i'd go by whatever you can get easiest for the least.

your shimmy could either be "warped" (i.e. uneven deposit) rotors or bad t/c rod bushings

[alkemyst]

not all rotors are equal by a long shot. I'd stick to Brembo blanks, OEM or better. Rockauto has the brembo's cheap.

Some of the auto shops sell rotors that are not equivalent to OEM

[g6civcx]

As for the brakes...what are your future HP goals? If it's under around 275 ...

I don't mean to pick on you, but I am curious. Why do people always ask about horsepower when talking about brakes? Engine horsepowers or braking horsepowers?

Why would it matter? Are you braking and accelerating at the same time?

[transient]

I'd say it has to do with the perception that one who has more HP will be accelerating more quickly and drive at higher speeds, thus they will need to stop more quickly.

[alkemyst]

also has to do with when you are using your brakes they engine power doesn't suddenly turn off.

Amount of power though wouldn't be at the top of a 'why do I need big brakes?' list.

[g6civcx]

I'd say it has to do with the perception that one who has more HP will be accelerating more quickly and drive at higher speeds, thus they will need to stop more quickly.

This makes sense. The premise for this argument would be that you have a limited amount of space to accelerate before you have to brake, like roadracing.

Because if you have enough room to accelerate, two cars with similar gearing will hit similar top speeds.

also has to do with when you are using your brakes they engine power doesn't suddenly turn off.

This doesn't make any sense. Are you braking and gassing at the same time? Engine power should not be applied to the wheels when braking, unless you want to trailbrake on purpose.

Do you want to speed up or slow down? Seems like it's better to do nothing if you're trying to do both at the same time.

Amount of power though wouldn't be at the top of a 'why do I need big brakes?' list.

I agree with this more. You can have no power at all but nice brakes will always be nice.

[alkemyst]

This doesn't make any sense. Are you braking and gassing at the same time? Engine power should not be applied to the wheels when braking, unless you want to trailbrake on purpose.

Do you want to speed up or slow down? Seems like it's better to do nothing if you're trying to do both at the same time.


Are you being sarcastic? If so I am not getting that.

[luftrofl]

Are you being sarcastic? If so I am not getting that.

I don't think so as I also don't understand what you posted.

rewrite this sentence: "also has to do with when you are using your brakes they engine power doesn't suddenly turn off."

[alkemyst]

I don't think so as I also don't understand what you posted.

rewrite this sentence: "also has to do with when you are using your brakes they engine power doesn't suddenly turn off."

they should have been the...

I am thinking you don`t understand though. When you let off the gas th engine is still making power. The higher the horsepower the more it will make off throttle too. Plus you aren`t really only braking or only powering out on a track. The more power, the more the brakes have to work to control that.

Regardless of all this, even stock calipers, rotors, and a quality set of pads would be overkill for most out there. Most no matter what they profess are going big brakes for cosmetic purposes (not that there is anything wrong with that)

[transient]

I'm afraid you're mistaken. When you're off throttle, the engine should not be putting any noticeable power down to the wheels. If your engine functions differently, you should probably have it looked at.

[alkemyst]

I'm afraid you're mistaken. When you're off throttle, the engine should not be putting any noticeable power down to the wheels. If your engine functions differently, you should probably have it looked at.

like I said above it should not be one of the top reasons looking for big brakes.

have you driven a high hp automatic though, not a street car....

[SHIFT_*grind*]

What's this gibberish?


I'd say there's a ~95% chance that this guy has a car with a manual transmission, and without gross amounts of horsepower, since most S-chassis cars fall into that category. And if you're braking in a car with a manual transmission, you either A) put the clutch in, so the engine has zero effect on acceleration or deceleration, or B) downshift, in which case engine drag actually helps the car slow down. So, no, the engine isn't "fighting against" the brakes.


Think you need a brake upgrade? If you can lock up the tires, you need better tires first. If you can't, try getting some decent brake pads and fresh blank rotors first, and see if that's good enough for you. Unless you're going to be punishing the brakes to the point that they start fading (track), you'll probably be fine on stock calipers. They might even be fine with some light track use. I had stock brakes with blank rotors and Axxis Ultimate pads on my old S13 coupe, and it came to a halt pretty damn quick.

[alkemyst]

What's this gibberish?


I'd say there's a ~95% chance that this guy has a car with a manual transmission, and without gross amounts of horsepower, since most S-chassis cars fall into that category. And if you're braking in a car with a manual transmission, you either A) put the clutch in, so the engine has zero effect on acceleration or deceleration, or B) downshift, in which case engine drag actually helps the car slow down. So, no, the engine isn't "fighting against" the brakes.


Think you need a brake upgrade? If you can lock up the tires, you need better tires first. If you can't, try getting some decent brake pads and fresh blank rotors first, and see if that's good enough for you. Unless you're going to be punishing the brakes to the point that they start fading (track), you'll probably be fine on stock calipers. They might even be fine with some light track use. I had stock brakes with blank rotors and Axxis Ultimate pads on my old S13 coupe, and it came to a halt pretty damn quick.

LIKE I SAID AGAIN...it's not a top issue...however, in reality you are not always only braking and only accelerating.

LIKE I WILL SAY AGAIN...most will be ok with just good tires and then perhaps a good street pad.

FINALLY...most upgrade to big brakes/'breaks' due to cosmetics.

[g6civcx]

it's not a top issue...however, in reality you are not always only braking and only accelerating.

I don't understand.

If you're not only braking or only accelerating, what else are you doing while braking or accelerating?

[SHIFT_*grind*]

LIKE I SAID AGAIN...it's not a top issue...

LIKE I WILL SAY AGAIN...most will be ok with just good tires and then perhaps a good street pad.

FINALLY...most upgrade to big brakes/'breaks' due to cosmetics.

Yeah, that all makes sense. Good tires and pads first, then worry about a real upgrade if you need it.

however, in reality you are not always only braking and only accelerating.

This is what makes no sense. You can SAY IT AGAIN all damn day and it's still wrong. In my reality, I let go of the gas pedal before I step on the brake, are you doing things differently?

When you put the clutch in, or put the car in neutral? No longer accelerating. When you let off the gas? No longer accelerating. Maybe the transmission in your hypothetical "high hp automatic" vehicle is different - although I'm pretty sure the OP isn't talking about a purpose-built drag car - but even then, I would think you could still put the damn thing in neutral and then....guess what? No longer accelerating.

See, that's how transmissions work. If they're not engaged, then there is NO power transmitted to the wheels. None. How can you even argue?

[sandbagger]

Definitely start with a good set of tires! Since you mentioned dual duty use, and if you don't want to purchase a second set of rims/tires for track use, stick around 240-320 UTQG with a AA-A rating tire. Any lower and you trade traction for treadlife and the exact opposite if you go higher.

For brakes, since you mentioned dual duty use; I would go straight to a caliper and rotor upgrade unless you are limited by rules such as in autocrossing (sts class). Where your only option is to upgrades pads, lines and fluid. Yes, you can improve on the stock system. But with hard driving (track use) you will be overheating the system in no time, due to the small rotor diameter.

Regarding shocks, springs and coilovers. It really boils down to budget and the features you want. As far as recommending a company to buy from, I will tell you this, stick with the big name companies / manufacturers. There is a reason they are still around after several years.

I know some of you are ready to flame me on this, but regardless of origin USA, Germany, Japan, China; All manufacturers have had their issues regarding consistency, reliability, quality, etc. I have used the following companies on my own cars Bilstein, Koni, KYB, Tokico, TEIN, KW, JIC and they all fit a certain need. Now does it match your needs is the question...

Things to consider when purchasing a kit: What features do you need / want. Are they rebuildable? Are they local? How is the customer service? Mono-tube vs. Twin tube. Can they be revalved? Can you make stroke changes? Are they short stroke vs stock stroke?

Getting to bushings and bearings, I would STAY AWAY from heim joints and spherical bearings on anything other than a TRACK ONLY VEHICLE. The reason being is that even the best sphericals and heim, with teflon injection only last about 1500 miles. Once they wear you will have noise/clunking issues; not to mention inconsistent handling if extremely worn out.

Now polyurethane, delrin and other materials are great for street cars because they increase response and flex less than stock rubber bushings. However they have been known to squeak if not properly lubed. They can also bind, although much of this can be corrected with a little work by reaming holes and using a lathe to ensure trueness. Another option would be the Nismo bushings which are a harder durometer rubber.

For me, I would want 4 piston calipers, 13 inch rotors(maybe slotted, but I prefer full face), a double adjustable mono-tube coilover, and poly or delrin bushings all around with bumpsteer and roll center correction; not to mention camber, caster and toe adjustments. But this is becasue I have participated in autocrossing, drifting and road racing events for the past 10 years; not to mention I drive to the events and still enjoy driving on the street.

I will forever be a tuner!!! For me it's not a fad or phase. I am one of the fortune few that is able to combine my hobby with my work and although it's been tough, I don't regret my choice.

Hope this helps...

[sandbagger]

I agree with alkemyst, sometimes you are doing multiple things at once. Maybe you need to left foot brake to hit the apex or coax the rear end around. Maybe your partially engaging the clutch to change the vehicle dynamics or attitude in a corner.

When you reach a certain point, you do what it takes to hit your marks; regardless of what type of event your at. That's why it's called driver skill. Something anyone can gain with seat time and a little instruction.

The main point is to have fun, learn and improve. That's it.

[g6civcx]

I agree with alkemyst, sometimes you are doing multiple things at once. Maybe you need to left foot brake to hit the apex or coax the rear end around. Maybe your partially engaging the clutch to change the vehicle dynamics or attitude in a corner.

When you reach a certain point, you do what it takes to hit your marks; regardless of what type of event your at. That's why it's called driver skill. Something anyone can gain with seat time and a little instruction.

The main point is to have fun, learn and improve. That's it.

I hear you about left foot braking, trailbraking, clutch play, mid corner adjustments, all that stuff. Even when you're in the braking zone you're also changing gear and working the throttle and clutch at the same time.

But the vast majority of your braking is done from the brake marker to the corner entry. Any braking done after that should be just minor adjustments.

I don't understand what engine power has to do with brakes other than the fact that you can achieve higher speeds within the same section of road, and you have to brake sooner.

As far as using engine braking, that's a different subject, or is it?