Officers who shot Sean Bell aquitted of all charges

[shmiddy]

i smell a riot..............

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/04/25/2008-04-25_officers_who_shot_sean_bell_aquitted_of_.html?p age=0

[Phlip]

Man, if there EVER was a reason to riot it would be this, I mean, they shot the guy 50 fucking times, once stopping to fucking reload.

[stiizy]

yeah i just heard this on hot 97.. i can't believe they got off too and like phlip said they actually threw other clips in their guns and shot again..its like thet diallo case remember they shot at him 78 times with 48 bullets hitting him and all he had was his wallet..Thats NYPD for you they always get off on shit..Even the cop who stuck that plunger in that guys ass a few years ago..he got a year and a year and a half of work release..

[DOOK]

I'm in no way condoning the actions of these officers, but from a perspective of a person who has been in similar situations, just remember when you're there you have a split second to make decisions, and as you can see, this situation happened in 2006, everyone else has weeks, months, or even years to critique that split second decision.

[shmiddy]

^^^ that still doent justify 50 shots..........

[DOOK]

^^^ that still doent justify 50 shots..........

have you been in a shooting situation? were you present at this particular event? like I said, I'm not condoning the actions of these officers, but until you've been in a similar situation, you really shouldn't make comment one way or the other. I agree, would I have possibly squeezed a few shots off had I heard a fellow officer yell gun and start firing... maybe... would I have squeezed of an entire magazine and then reloaded and emptied that one too... probably not... unless I was being fired upon, which it's quite obvious they weren't being fired upon considering the victims had no firearms.

[jackjack]

still............... thats crazy as hell.

[aziankingz]

i agree with dook..sometimes there's no time to think, but to just react with your instincts, especially if you think you saw a gun.. if anyone knew that area, they would know that there are a lot of crime that takes place and within 2 seconds you will be dead. i also do not think it was necessary for the cops to shoot 50 times..i believe 1/2 a clip would be good enough. if i remember correctly, 2 cops died last year in a similar situation in the same area, where they did a stop on an suv and got shot in the face..

[RUTH'LESSDET]

Sean Bell info (http://highbridnation.com/2008/04/25/detectives-in-sean-bell-case-acquited-on-all-charges/#comment-38763)

I was not really surprise about the verdict in the Bell case as Benefield and Guzman seem to be incompetent fools on the stand changing up their stories the whole time in a quest to get that prize of the wrongful death suit money(they lacked credibility). Also everybody seems to forget even if they were found guilty they still would not have gone to jail…first offense misdemeanor of reckless endangerment would have not been any jail time. The Manslaughter was not even in the picture in my opinion, and if you’re thinking murder you don’t have a damn clue about NYS penal law.

I doubt there is gonna be a riot either the police look as if they had everything on smash!!!

[shmiddy]

well im pretty sure 90% or even more of the ppl on zilvia have ever been in a shooting situation but that still doents mean we cant have a opinion on the matter. 50 shots is redicules. stoping AND reloading to shot more is retarded. for the ppl who have not been in a shotting situation (90%+ or more of the forum) i think we can all use our better judgment and say it was extramly exesive...........

[DOOK]

I agree... and it's excessive :D

[shmiddy]

yeah it was, and someone should have been held responsible for his death..... for shit sakes he didnt even have a gun!!!!!

[DOOK]

yeah it was, and someone should have been held responsible for his death..... for shit sakes he didnt even have a gun!!!!!

chalk that one up to the fact that countless officers have been gunned down because they failed to act in a quick and decisive manner in bad neighborhoods in all sections of this country, or world for that matter. Unfortunately for a lot of our law enforcement personnel it's either kill or be killed, whether that be right or wrong, it's the case sometimes.

I tell you one thing, if I'm in a situation and I feel it's me or them... It's going to be me. I will do what it takes to go home to my little girl that day and avoid being a statistic.

[s14_legend]

crazy man...excessive azz stuff...reloading you gotta be kidding me...i can understand a couple shots...wow

[Palmer]

I'm watching this on the news as we speak. I think its absolutly rediculous that they were cleared of charges. I'm not sure how many bullets the guy took before he hit the ground but, i'm more than sure that he didn't take all 50. Al Sharpton is gonna have a shit-fit about this.

[ScottMan]

I'm curious as to why people would riot? It's not as if all the white people said "they didn't do anything wrong to that stupid black man!!!" The witnesses failed. Faulty evidence, poor witnesses, perjury, etc. loses cases. So why a riot? Because the NYPD let the cops go? That's not really how it works.

Also, do you think it's more likely to cause backlash because it's white cops shooting a black man (because the first officer to fire was black and I think only one cop was white), cops shooting an innocent black man, or ignorance on the part of the public? After reading the case, people can't think the gentleman was totally "innocent". As was reported, he was walking out of a known criminal area after an altercation was observed by an officer and the group was overheard saying "yo, get my gun." Now, that's all well and good, that doesn't really provide a great reason for firing, but certainly for action. So, the officers advanced on the men, at which point they refused to put their hands up and jumped in the car and rammed the unmarked van.

So, why a riot? Obviously the man and his friends weren't "innocent", and were resisting arrest. There was no posse of white cops out on a trip to kill innocent black people.

So, is it the issue of how many shots were fired? That, I could see. A cop fires 31 shots? Seriously? Ridiculous, but, one of the men was shot 19 times, so it's not much of a stretch to think he might've still been moving, so maybe that would explain all the shots. Either way, way too many shots.

So again, why a riot? People were shouting "KKK" outside the courtroom, so apparently people assume a black officer shooting a black man is in the KKK. Odd.

[OptionZero]

Prosecution's case undermined by "prior inconsistent statements".

Lol.

People need to learn to shut the fuck up or think damn long and hard before opening their mouth.

What if the prior inconsistent statement was a post on an internet forum? First person to find me such a case gets a cookie.

[soon2bs13]

what did the guy do that had the police shoot him 50 times?

[2ilvia]

he was black ^
actually thats doubtful because blacks are a huge % of the population in NYC, also the cops shooting him were black
so its called the govt. owns you

[illvialuver]

riot? they should beat the shit out of his friend who survied for telling different stories and makeing the case look weak. yes it was uncalled for and wrong in everyway, but if so why go to court? the judge and jury still have to do their job, and it just so happened that his friends mouth fucked up the case not the judge or some kkk shit. its stupid people that help the fucked up bs people win cases like this. its a shame and on his wedding day too. thats sad.

[spoolandslide]

arent police supposed to "fire once fired upon"
or am i just an idiot

[Rnz520]

Nah they are supposed to draw their weapon if they feel threatened and shoot if under imminent danger.
I was not there like the officers so I am gonna say that if they did something wrong they know it and it will come back to haunt them in the end, in this life or the next.

[shmiddy]

he was black ^
actually thats doubtful because blacks are a huge % of the population in NYC, also the cops shooting him were black
so its called the govt. owns you

lmfao msglengt

[unwed_transient]

What if the prior inconsistent statement was a post on an internet forum? First person to find me such a case gets a cookie.

i don't feel like getting on lexis.


on topic, defendants waived their right to a jury trial. the sitting judge seems to have a history of being a thoughtful jurist. so this comes down to how many shots were fired. write a letter to the NYPD asking them to train their officers to be more proficient.

[Future240]

he was black ^
actually thats doubtful because blacks are a huge % of the population in NYC, also the cops shooting him were black
so its called the govt. owns you

It's a sterotype/well known fact among us black folk that black cops have a tendency to be a bit more on the ass hole side. I would rather be pulled over by a white cop anyday. All the cops who have pulled me over where white, and they were all nice to me and let me go with a warning, especially since one of those times i was doing 75 in a 55(younger dumb days), I am fortunate enough not to have run in to a racist cop yet.

[jspaeth]

I think it's funny how no one mentions the fact that these dudes tried to run over the cops.

Solution: Listen to authority. If they tell you to stop your car or put your hands up, you do it.....you don't get in the car and try to run into the police.

Also, the credibility of the witnesses was nonexistent, as they are past criminals/dregs

[2ilvia]

Solution: Listen to authority. If they tell you to stop your car or put your hands up, you do it.....you don't get in the car and try to run into the police.
screw that, im my own authority, if im not doing anything illegal then leave me alone

[eastcoastS14]

ugh how many cases have there been in this country of cops gunning down black civilians and getting away with it completely?

this country continues to treat black people like second class citizens...and its disgusting, its fucking 2008 damn it

sometimes the shit that happens in this country makes me want to puke

[SimpleS14]

I think it's funny how no one mentions the fact that these dudes tried to run over the cops.

Solution: Listen to authority. If they tell you to stop your car or put your hands up, you do it.....you don't get in the car and try to run into the police.

Did these undercover cops say they were police?

[240sxJoker]

ok 1st of all yall might want to read up on "the use of force" by police and the military before posting on a topic like this. now with that said if it were me and they got into a car and tried to run or smash into a cop car (undercover or not) that is what is called DEADLY FORCE on there part that means open fire and try to disable the car if not kill the 1s in it. i know all about the "use of force" i have been in the military for 11 years and have gone thru some of the same traning that cops go thru.

[KwKouki]

ok 1st of all yall might want to read up on "the use of force" by police and the military before posting on a topic like this. now with that said if it were me and they got into a car and tried to run or smash into a cop car (undercover or not) that is what is called DEADLY FORCE on there part that means open fire and try to disable the car if not kill the 1s in it. i know all about the "use of force" i have been in the military for 11 years and have gone thru some of the same traning that cops go thru.

Then you should know that deadly force is justified if the officer FEELS that his life is in danger or he FEELS incapacitating bodily harm is imminent. We trust officers to uphold the law to the fullest extent, sometimes people get behind the badge for the wrong reasons. If it were me, hearing "go get my gun" and almost being hit with a car justifies that my life is in danger.

About the 50 shots, I agree is a bit over the top. But how many cops were on the scene? How many had prior firefights *I pray not many they are not very fun to be in* When the brain goes into the *fight or flight* stage you would be amazed at what breaks down. Reloading a clip to continue firing towards a subject that is still moving is very understandable. For someone that has not been under this amount of stress it is a trainwreck. I read about a prison stabbing in the academy. This guy was stabbed 157 times while the other one held him down. When they were asked why he hit him so many times, his response was "all I knew was that he was still moving, and that meant he was still a threat to me" The movement he was talking about was the body sticking to the shank.

Ive seen officers killed during a firefight because he reverted back to what he was hardwired to do in the academy. The officer fired 2 shots at the subject, and returned his firearm to the "down" position. You hear this officer screaming "shoot shoot down.......shoot shoot down" on the audio.

When behind that much authority you can do what you please. When it comes down to it, its up to you to justify your actions. Its sad to admit this but it happens every day.

[240sxJoker]

sry for not being fully clear on that KwKouki but yes i do in that case think it was justified as far as the amount of rounds from what i can grasp from reading the post there were at least 2 officers on seen and as i see it 50 rounds might have been a little much but when someone is moving on foot or in a car until it or they stop i was taught keep shooting. and being in iraq right now i wouldnt think twice about shooting more than 50 by myself.

[RUTH'LESSDET]

I think it's funny how no one mentions the fact that these dudes tried to run over the cops.

Solution: Listen to authority. If they tell you to stop your car or put your hands up, you do it.....you don't get in the car and try to run into the police.

Also, the credibility of the witnesses was nonexistent, as they are past criminals/dregs

I agree :-/ :-/

[cartune]

i would love to be called for jury duty for this and put them cops in jail

[ScottMan]

ugh how many cases have there been in this country of cops gunning down black civilians and getting away with it completely?

this country continues to treat black people like second class citizens...and its disgusting, its fucking 2008 damn it

sometimes the shit that happens in this country makes me want to puke
Did you read about this case?

It's a valid question.

[Matej]

i smell a riot..............
People don't riot anymore, lately I've noticed that nowadays people as a whole are beat down and take what's shoved in their face, it's sad to see, I'm off to paint my face and saddle up my trusty steed, gotta bring rioting back to the people!!!

[unwed_transient]

ugh how many cases have there been in this country of cops gunning down black civilians and getting away with it completely?

this country continues to treat black people like second class citizens...and its disgusting, its fucking 2008 damn it

sometimes the shit that happens in this country makes me want to puke

get off your high horse. nobody needs your white guilt. the plain and simple fact is that a black man being killed by a police officer makes the news 10x as often as a black man being killed by a gang member or in a bad drug deal even though the "black on black" crimes are still most prevalent in that community.

second class citizens? now you're just talking out of your ass.

why can't people just read the damn facts of the case?

[jspaeth]

Number of cops gunned down by thugs with guns >>>>>>>>>> Number of "possibly innocent" people gunned down by cops

[DOOK]

ok 1st of all yall might want to read up on "the use of force" by police and the military before posting on a topic like this. now with that said if it were me and they got into a car and tried to run or smash into a cop car (undercover or not) that is what is called DEADLY FORCE on there part that means open fire and try to disable the car if not kill the 1s in it. i know all about the "use of force" i have been in the military for 11 years and have gone thru some of the same traning that cops go thru.

first of all, "some" of your training isn't as much as "ALL" of mine... if at any point in your training you were taught to open fire on a vehicle, your instructors are setting you up for failure. One of the first things you are taught when you take a UDF course when dealing with firearms is to be sure of your target and what is beyond. meaning that if you can't take the shot without putting innocent people in harms way, you don't take the shot... except under certain circumstances where you are authorized to do so as a sharp shooter or other extensive circumstances we won't get into right now. you are correct when you say if they tried to run the officers down with the vehicle or rammed their undercover vehicle then the use of deadly force would be authorized, however that does not mean riddling the vehicle or the person with bullet holes. The fact that between the 3 officers they let off 50 shots and were never fired upon is excessive. The man who died was hit 14 times. How many of those holes were put there after the vehicle had stopped? Your guess is as good as mine, but I've venture to guess quite a few of them. As I said before in this thread, if it's up to me going home or you going home... I will be the one going home, but not to the tune of as much excessive force as was shown in my opinion in this particular case.

[KA24DESOneThree]

These cops had a reason to shoot.

Everyone who isn't on their side needs to shut the fuck up, read the fuck up, and sit the fuck back.

The guy in the van that was being rammed ran to slide-lock, reloaded and nearly ran dry again. The two other detectives fired 15 shots between them. There was reason to believe at least one of the guys in Bell's car had a gun, and one of the officers observed Guzman suddenly reach down, as if for a weapon.

They were following SOP. SOP doesn't say "wait until they prove they have a gun" or "go ahead, let them ram your fellow officers." You'll notice that there are many, many, many instances where officers have opened fire on a vehicle.

By the way, there were two black officers, one white officer.

Of course, Rev. Al Sharpton had to get his divisive, stupid ass into the fray.

[DOOK]

They were following SOP. SOP doesn't say "wait until they prove they have a gun" or "go ahead, let them ram your fellow officers." You'll notice that there are many, many, many instances where officers have opened fire on a vehicle.


standard operating procedure in most law enforcement venues states to cease firing once resistance has stopped. I wasn't there to know when that took place. Again, I don't blame the officers for opening fire, i would have done the same. Only thing I question was the need for the amount of lead to be thrown that was thrown...

[an_orange_s2k]

wow this is hella crazy....i understand the split decision to fire but 50shots is a lot w/ a reload

[imotion s14]

Bell had been arrested three times in the past: twice for drugs and one on a gun rap in a case that was sealed. Guzman has been busted nine times, including for armed robbery. He spent two stretches in state prison in the '90s. Benefield has a sealed record as a juvenile for gun possession and robbery.

Good job to the 5 detectives. Unfortunately 2 survived.

[Grendel]

So from what I read on wikipedia the detectives were shooting at three guys in the same car? It's not like they were all unloading into one guy right?

[eastcoastS14]

get off your high horse. nobody needs your white guilt. the plain and simple fact is that a black man being killed by a police officer makes the news 10x as often as a black man being killed by a gang member or in a bad drug deal even though the "black on black" crimes are still most prevalent in that community.

second class citizens? now you're just talking out of your ass.

why can't people just read the damn facts of the case?


yeah fuck you tell me Im lying.....

http://www.democracynow.org/2006/4/18/outrage_in_milwaukee_over_acquittal_by

http://www.cnn.com/US/9611/13/verdict/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89937894&ft=1&f=1001

http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/02/08/home/rodney-verdict.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23679181/

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-79341037.html

http://afroamhistory.about.com/cs/civilrights/a/orangeburg.htm



and you know something that "black on black" crime you're are talking about is garaunteed prison time perpetrator....every single one of these cases the cops go free they go home to their families while some poor mother is left to bury her son....acquitted of all charges....bullshit, and 50shots? might as well have just brought an uzi to work

how does someone get off of every single charge? no charges at all? in everyone of these cases? and thats just what i found in 5 minutes of searching nevermind all those that occurred in the 40s 50s and 60s...now im not expecting that these cops get the death penalty or life in prison or anything like that (and im almost positive that would never happen) but I would expect some form of justice somewhere, not even a suspension or a firing???

you need to learn about the history of this country....its not all bright and sunny, and this country continues to brush off the needs of black communities and treat the black youth like they are thugs and criminals....now i dont want to turn this into a racial debate, and im not trying to to give anyone "white guilt" but i think you need to recognize that our society does some shitty things....and that yes, as a matter of fact race does continue to play a major role in our society and especially in our courtrooms

[KA24DESOneThree]

and you know something that "black on black" crime you're are talking about is garaunteed prison time perpetrator....every single one of these cases the cops go free they go home to their families while some poor mother is left to bury her son....acquitted of all charges....bullshit, and 50shots? might as well have just brought an uzi to work

how does someone get off of every single charge? no charges at all? in everyone of these cases? and thats just what i found in 5 minutes of searching nevermind all those that occurred in the 40s 50s and 60s...now im not expecting that these cops get the death penalty or life in prison or anything like that (and im almost positive that would never happen) but I would expect some form of justice somewhere, not even a suspension or a firing???

you need to learn about the history of this country....its not all bright and sunny, and this country continues to brush off the needs of black communities and treat the black youth like they are thugs and criminals....now i dont want to turn this into a racial debate, and im not trying to to give anyone "white guilt" but i think you need to recognize that our society does some shitty things....and that yes, as a matter of fact race does continue to play a major role in our society and especially in our courtrooms

You're not lying, you're just wrong.

You're wrong because you think that all cops are bad cops, that racism is rampant, that whites, hell, that society as a whole is out to get the black population. You're wrong because you have no idea what police operating procedure is, and you're wrong because you make excuses for the thugs in Bell's car.

Some "poor" mother is left to bury her criminal son. You make choices in life, you deal with the choices you made. Bell chose to ram the van. Bell chose to be at some shitty-ass strip club, and he chose to have criminals for friends. You want to whine about someone getting killed, try talking about all the people shot by armed robbers. Try talking about the people killed by drug dealers in their little wars. You want me to have sympathy for some fuckhead who belongs to the class "dregs of society?" No, thank you. His mother has to deal with how HE lived.

You want justice? It was served. The three detectives were just out there doing their jobs. Shit got heavy, and a criminal died.

It's not this country's fault that people are turning to a life of crime. It's the "woe is me" society's fault, it's Al Sharpton's fault, it's Jesse Jackson's fault. It's the fault of those who say "I can't ever make it, so why should I try?" The problem is that you have a community that is dependent on the very people they hate. Without the police, without the government, there would be more crime, more poverty, more sadness.

This is a product of the Great Society. Welfare has fucked up many, many, many more families than it has helped.

[98s14inaz]

Was this guy in the car trying to run the cops over when they shot him 50 times?

[jspaeth]

You're not lying, you're just wrong.

You're wrong because you think that all cops are bad cops, that racism is rampant, that whites, hell, that society as a whole is out to get the black population. You're wrong because you have no idea what police operating procedure is, and you're wrong because you make excuses for the thugs in Bell's car.

Some "poor" mother is left to bury her criminal son. You make choices in life, you deal with the choices you made. Bell chose to ram the van. Bell chose to be at some shitty-ass strip club, and he chose to have criminals for friends. You want to whine about someone getting killed, try talking about all the people shot by armed robbers. Try talking about the people killed by drug dealers in their little wars. You want me to have sympathy for some fuckhead who belongs to the class "dregs of society?" No, thank you. His mother has to deal with how HE lived.

You want justice? It was served. The three detectives were just out there doing their jobs. Shit got heavy, and a criminal died.

It's not this country's fault that people are turning to a life of crime. It's the "woe is me" society's fault, it's Al Sharpton's fault, it's Jesse Jackson's fault. It's the fault of those who say "I can't ever make it, so why should I try?" The problem is that you have a community that is dependent on the very people they hate. Without the police, without the government, there would be more crime, more poverty, more sadness.

This is a product of the Great Society. Welfare has fucked up many, many, many more families than it has helped.

Ladies and gentleman, you should listen to this man. He speaks the truth.

[wh0aitznic0]

You're not lying, you're just wrong.

You're wrong because you think that all cops are bad cops, that racism is rampant, that whites, hell, that society as a whole is out to get the black population. You're wrong because you have no idea what police operating procedure is, and you're wrong because you make excuses for the thugs in Bell's car.

Some "poor" mother is left to bury her criminal son. You make choices in life, you deal with the choices you made. Bell chose to ram the van. Bell chose to be at some shitty-ass strip club, and he chose to have criminals for friends. You want to whine about someone getting killed, try talking about all the people shot by armed robbers. Try talking about the people killed by drug dealers in their little wars. You want me to have sympathy for some fuckhead who belongs to the class "dregs of society?" No, thank you. His mother has to deal with how HE lived.

You want justice? It was served. The three detectives were just out there doing their jobs. Shit got heavy, and a criminal died.

It's not this country's fault that people are turning to a life of crime. It's the "woe is me" society's fault, it's Al Sharpton's fault, it's Jesse Jackson's fault. It's the fault of those who say "I can't ever make it, so why should I try?" The problem is that you have a community that is dependent on the very people they hate. Without the police, without the government, there would be more crime, more poverty, more sadness.

This is a product of the Great Society. Welfare has fucked up many, many, many more families than it has helped.

Such a profound statement !:bigok:

[KA24DESOneThree]

Was this guy in the car trying to run the cops over when they shot him 50 times?

There were three guys in the car.

46 rounds were fired, according to major reports. 31 from one detective in the van, 11 from another outside the van, and 4 from another outside the van. Bell's car rammed the van, shots were fired, then one of the officers believed Guzman to be reaching for a gun, which led to more rounds being fired.

By the way, the guy who mentioned Diallo, they shot at him 41 times and hit him 19. That was probably a bit excessive, yes, but most likely within SOP.