National Geographics - Inside a Cult

[WERDdabuilder]

Doomsday cult leader Michael Travesser prophesied that the world would end October 31, 2007 -- but what happened? Go inside Travesser's cult to meet its leader, its followers and the dynamics that shape cult behavior.

with the whole Texas polygamist compound bring raided and etc, im very interested in wtf goes on behind these "cult" like places. NatGeo will be showing this documentary on the Doomsday cult tonight(wed night at 9pm).

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGC/StaticFiles/Images/Show/34xx/340x/3401_inside_a_cult-1_04700300.jpg
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGC/StaticFiles/Images/Show/34xx/340x/3401_inside_a_cult-2_04700300.jpg
Michael Travesser told his followers that he was the messiah.

[rokmplutonium]

"[T]axes"? Do you mean Texas?

[VROOOM]

i love Nat Geo. everything on that channel is interesting.

[jibanez]

kinda looks like jebus :bowrofl:

[murda-c]

Nobody else noticed the lake of fire that day?

[WanganRunner]

Cults suck.

Which is why I want to walk into the lobby of the Washington DC Scientology building and pinch a steaming loaf on their carpet.

[steve shadows]

Cults are good if they involve you and only hot chicks.

I'd rock it.

[98s14inaz]

Nobody else noticed the lake of fire that day?

Hell yes, I was roasting marshmallows. They taste best when cooked over fire, sulfer, brimstone, and burning sinners.:D

[azndoc]

Cults are good if they involve you and only hot chicks.

I'd rock it.

Spoken for the truth.

Yeah cults are cool, if it didn't involve killing people or alien spaceships.

Just me and lots of chicks.

[Dirty Habit]

This shit better be in HD.

[Bushido]

these people in cults are no more ridiculous than the billions of christians, muslims, or jews on the planet.

Jesus Christ is the messiah
Michael Travesser is the messiah

no difference, both bullshit.

[ALTRNTV]

these people in cults are no more ridiculous than the billions of christians, muslims, or jews on the planet.

Jesus Christ is the messiah
Michael Travesser is the messiah

no difference, both bullshit.
Here we go again with bashing religion.

:jerkit: :jerkit: :jerkit: :jerkit:

Why don't you explain how that is then,
oh great and holy and all-knowing one.

[allntrlundrgrnd]

Too bad he doesnt have a unibrow. then i would believe :cj:

[drift freaq]

Here we go again with bashing religion.

:jerkit: :jerkit: :jerkit: :jerkit:

Why don't you explain how that is then,
oh great and holy one.

Yup typical atheists and agnostics bullshit. I saw a response to a editorial from the LA Times that was great. There was an atheist trying to argue why intelligent design was flawed and why it explains that the whole theory of God is flawed because its all based on faith. Funny thing is all of Science is based on faith. Faith that the basic theorems and ideas behind the existence of atoms are the reason we exist.

Its like a bunch of random atoms next to each other from the big bang came together and managed to make DNA the basis for life?
If you are an atheist and you believe in the chaos theory then in effect the likelyhood of our existence would be highly unlikely. Therefor it suggests a intelligent force behind it.

Now on the subject of cults. Cults exist because people lack spirituality and feel empty. A common problem for atheists I might add hahahhahha j/k.
They seek something to fullfill them and are vulnerable. How does this happen. Adverse things happening in their life's to shake their less than solid foundation of beliefs. They feel empty and lost after and seek. Hence getting drawn into cults. A big cult starting with the letter S seeks out people like that drawing them in with promises of making their life better. They draw in up and coming stars with promises of success.
This is actually the basis of how most cults work lots of promises and a safe harbor to the lost.

[mRclARK1]

these people in cults are no more ridiculous than the billions of christians, muslims, or jews on the planet.

Jesus Christ is the messiah
Michael Travesser is the messiah

no difference, both bullshit.

I'm not even going to bother with how ridiculous that statement is. But let's not turn EVERYTHING that involves religion in some way into a religion bashing/arguement/flame fest between those who have religious beliefs and those who do not. :bow:

In addition to what drift freaq said, almost all religious cults are focused around Christianity. It's a group of people generally polarized around one, or a small groups, interpertation of the bible etc. and usually focused on writings that are an "addition to" or a "compliment" to the bible. Often claiming to be formerly lost, and usually corrective knowledge that reveals the entire truth in some way.
When almost all cults today are looked at, they have this pattern, (IE: Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons) and even Islam started as a cult of Christianity in the centuries following the life of Jesus Christ.

Its like a bunch of random atoms next to each other from the big bang came together and managed to make DNA the basis for life?
If you are an atheist and you believe in the chaos theory then in effect the likelyhood of our existence would be highly unlikely. Therefor it suggests a intelligent force behind it.

What random chance creates, random chance will invariably destroy. Even IF life was created by random chance, the chances of that life continuing for even a few moments, let alone to what it has today, are even more unlikely then the chance of it being randomly created in the first place

[cuddlesthesheep]

I'm not even going to bother with how ridiculous that statement is. But let's not turn EVERYTHING that involves religion in some way into a religion bashing/arguement/flame fest between those who have religious beliefs and those who do not. :bow:

In addition to what drift freaq said, almost all religious cults are focused around Christianity. It's a group of people generally polarized around one, or a small groups, interpertation of the bible etc. and usually focused on writings that are an "addition to" or a "compliment" to the bible. Often claiming to be formerly lost, and usually corrective knowledge that reveals the entire truth in some way.
When almost all cults today are looked at, they have this pattern, (IE: Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons) and even Islam started as a cult of Christianity in the centuries following the life of Jesus Christ.

well stated post!

[VROOOM]

Christianity started as a cult.

[mRclARK1]

Christianity started as a cult.

One could make an arguement that Christianity started as a cult out of the traditional Jewish beliefs at the time of Jesus. Where the arguement runs into problems is in the beliefs and history surronding Christianity.
Virtually all cults require some form of deed(s) or act(s) in exchange for their promised "salvation". Christianity does not. It only requires sincere belief (IE: Faith). The history surronding Christianity and its origins is immense as well. Enough that people have PhD's in the subject.
The Old Testament gives over 100 signs that would prove the identity of the promised messiah. Copies of these books have been found that do pre-date the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ also happens to fulfill in some way or another, ALL of the signs given in the Old testament books. All other "messiahs" in history had unsubstantiated claims they were the messiah. Jesus Christ had historical and contextual proof.

[Baka Sama]

I'm not even going to bother with how ridiculous that statement is. But let's not turn EVERYTHING that involves religion in some way into a religion bashing/arguement/flame fest between those who have religious beliefs and those who do not. :bow:

In addition to what drift freaq said, almost all religious cults are focused around Christianity. It's a group of people generally polarized around one, or a small groups, interpertation of the bible etc. and usually focused on writings that are an "addition to" or a "compliment" to the bible. Often claiming to be formerly lost, and usually corrective knowledge that reveals the entire truth in some way.
When almost all cults today are looked at, they have this pattern, (IE: Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons) and even Islam started as a cult of Christianity in the centuries following the life of Jesus Christ.

What random chance creates, random chance will invariably destroy. Even IF life was created by random chance, the chances of that life continuing for even a few moments, let alone to what it has today, are even more unlikely then the chance of it being randomly created in the first place

Big no no there buddy. :nono: :nono: :nono:
Jehovah's Witnesses are far from a cult. People like to lump them into that same category because they know little about them and refuse to understand. There is no "new" writings they focus on after the bible. Or new messiahs they say claim to be sent by God. The only book they get their information from is the bible. Not the photochoped version used today by a lot of religions but the unmolested version with Gods name still in it.

I think Catholics are more of a cult than anything. They worship one man as though he IS GOD. If he says jump, how many millions of people will jump? If he says kill yourself, how many die hard catholics will kill themselves. You know your in a cult when you ignore the bible to listen to any one man today. And if you havent read the bible or atleast know what its talking about you have no right to even reply to this. <- Edit* not talking about you mRclARK1

[HyperTek]

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGC/StaticFiles/Images/Show/34xx/340x/3401_inside_a_cult-2_04700300.jpg
Thats right bitches, I'm the messiah. Who wants it first?

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGC/StaticFiles/Images/Show/34xx/340x/3401_inside_a_cult-1_04700300.jpg
Dam bitch not you, you kinda old

[Baka Sama]

One could make an arguement that Christianity started as a cult out of the traditional Jewish beliefs at the time of Jesus. Where the arguement runs into problems is in the beliefs and history surronding Christianity.
Virtually all cults require some form of deed(s) or act(s) in exchange for their promised "salvation". Christianity does not. It only requires sincere belief (IE: Faith). The history surronding Christianity and its origins is immense as well. Enough that people have PhD's in the subject.
The Old Testament gives over 100 signs that would prove the identity of the promised messiah. Copies of these books have been found that do pre-date the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ also happens to fulfill in some way or another, ALL of the signs given in the Old testament books. All other "messiahs" in history had unsubstantiated claims they were the messiah. Jesus Christ had historical and contextual proof.

You are correct, but Christianity does require a lot more than just mere faith. Anyone can have faith. The bible says "...faith without works is dead." Meaning its important to have faith but if your life doesnt also reflect your faith then its meaningless.

[ALTRNTV]

Christianity requires work, based on faith. If you
say you have so-called faith, but your actions and life
tell otherwise, then it's, as Baka Sama said, meaningless.

[mRclARK1]

Big no no there buddy. :nono: :nono: :nono:
Jehovah's Witnesses are far from a cult. People like to lump them into that same category because they know little about them and refuse to understand. There is no "new" writings they focus on after the bible. Or new messiahs they say claim to be sent by God. The only book they get their information from is the bible. Not the photochoped version used today by a lot of religions but the unmolested version with Gods name still in it.

I think Catholics are more of a cult than anything. They worship one man as though he IS GOD. If he says jump, how many millions of people will jump? If he says kill yourself, how many die hard catholics will kill themselves. You know your in a cult when you ignore the bible to listen to any one man today. And if you havent read the bible or atleast know what its talking about you have no right to even reply to this.

JW's ARE a cult. They have their own translation of the Bible, and claim it to be correct above any other. It also so happens no one who was part of the original translation team for the Watchtower society was educated, or a speaker, of any biblical language. How can you correctly translate that which you cannot read? You are correct that JW's have no new writings they claim to be superior or in addition to the Bible, they however mistranslate and often ignore context and have added additional materials and beliefs to Biblical teachings through the Watchtower publications.
They claim various differences from Christianity, such as the bodily, physical resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is not believed by JW's, and salvation by faith alone is also not taught or believed by the Watchtower, among many other things.

Catholics? The Catholic church has its serious problems to be sure, but at its core beliefs, is still in line with historical and biblical Christianity

FYI. I have read the ENTIRE Bible (both Catholic and Protestant), most of the Koran, all of book of Mormon (I own at least 12 copies including one written in the 19th century), I own a copy of the Watchtower bible and have read significant portions of that. I've also read countless books written by various teachers, authors and historical figures as well.

"Faith without deeds is dead" This does NOT mean a person is saved by their deeds. What it means is that a truely believed and life altering faith will do just that, change your life. The change will be reflected in your deeds. You're saved by faith, your deeds are evidence of that faith, but not the form of your salvation. This has always been the teaching of the christian church.

[Baka Sama]

JW's ARE a cult. They have their own translation of the Bible, and claim it to be correct above any other. It also so happens no one who was part of the original translation team for the Watchtower society was educated, or a speaker, of any biblical language. How can you correctly translate that which you cannot read?

They dont claim it to be superior to any other bible. I Often times use many bibles to teach to people about God and encourage people to use their own bible. You are also very wrong to say the translation team is uneducated and doesnt translate correctly. If you want I can send you any info you want about JW's translating the bible. I have a bible with the exact word for word translation of the greek scriptures. And guess what? Every other bible leaves out A LOT from it. The NWT is put into modern lang so people will get the meaning of the scriptures. Sometimes its hard for people to understand old english. The Catholic church openly admits taking Gods name out the bible because they didnt believe people should use it. So tell me how reliable that translation is if they purposefully switch Gods name with "Lord" and teach people not to use it?

You are correct that JW's have no new writings they claim to be superior or in addition to the Bible, they however mistranslate and often ignore context and have added additional materials and beliefs to Biblical teachings through the Watchtower publications.
They claim various differences from Christianity, such as the bodily, physical resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is not believe by JW's, and salvation by faith alone is also not taught or believed by the Watchtower, among many other things.

Please tell me what mistranslations and wrong context they use. We do not change any of the beliefs from the bible but use add puplications to simply help people understand what they are reading. Yes we believe that Jesus will not be resurrected as a human. Why would he? The only reason he came to earth was to die in human form for us. Why would he stay a human? Salvation by faith alone is a way for people to do anything they want and turn around and say I love God and believe its ok. True your works will reflect your faith but Jesus said there was more than that. Like each christian preaching to others about Gods word. Something Jesus himself started going door to door. And something he said to continue doing. I can easily show you how modern people who claim to be christians are far from that (Like that cross next to your name) but the same cannot be said of JWs.

Catholics? The Catholic church has its serious problems to be sure, but at it's core beliefs, is still in line with historical and biblical Christianity. Thats your opinion. And although you might disagree with Jehovahs Witnesses being the true religion, you have to agree they are not a cult. We do not worship one man, period.

[Dirty Habit]

Scientology is the way to go.



Aliens fuckin' rock.

[MikeisNissan]

Why do Catholics like to touch little boys? IN THE BUTT!?

[Baka Sama]

Why do Catholics like to touch little boys? IN THE BUTT!?

Because they misinterpet the bible and make it seem that just because your "a man of God" you cant get married and have sex like God instructed. So years and years of no sex results in the molestation of children. Thats my opinion anyway. Plus God will bring to light the real motives all those claiming to worship him as the end draws near. Like all these mega million dollar churches coming under investigation.

[steve shadows]

Scientology is the way to go.



Aliens fuckin' rock.

Thank you! :keke:

[mRclARK1]

They dont claim it to be superior to any other bible. I Often times use many bibles to teach to people about God and encourage people to use their own bible. You are also very wrong to say the translation team is uneducated and doesnt translate correctly. If you want I can send you any info you want about JW's translating the bible. I have a bible with the exact word for word translation of the greek scriptures. And guess what? Every other bible leaves out A LOT from it. The NWT is put into modern lang so people will get the meaning of the scriptures. Sometimes its hard for people to understand old english. The Catholic church openly admits taking Gods name out the bible because they didnt believe people should use it. So tell me how reliable that translation is if they purposefully switch Gods name with "Lord" and teach people not to use it?

Please tell me what mistranslations and wrong context they use. We do not change any of the beliefs from the bible but use add puplications to simply help people understand what they are reading. Yes we believe that Jesus will not be resurrected as a human. Why would he? The only reason he came to earth was to die in human form for us. Why would he stay a human? Salvation by faith alone is a way for people to do anything they want and turn around and say I love God and believe its ok. True your works will reflect your faith but Jesus said there was more than that. Like each christian preaching to others about Gods word. Something Jesus himself started going door to door. And something he said to continue doing. I can easily show you how modern people who claim to be christians are far from that (Like that cross next to your name) but the same cannot be said of JWs.

Thats your opinion. And although you might disagree with Jehovahs Witnesses being the true religion, you have to agree they are not a cult. We do not worship one man, period.

I'll PM you reagarding the translation as it digresses from the thread.

From Watchtower publications, which state the position you concede:

"...the man Jesus is dead, forever dead." (The Atonement Between God and Man: Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 5, 1899, pg. 454)

"...the bodies in which Jesus manifested himself to the disciples after his return to life were not the body in which he was nailed to the tree." (The Kingdom is at Hand, 1944, pg. 259).

From the Bible (This passage IS present in the Watchtower translation)

Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of His body. When therefore He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture, and the word which Jesus had spoken." John 2:19-22

The Greek word used here is "soma" (sO-mAH). It means a bodily form (either a corpse, or even a living form, but it means a BODY). There are many other verses which speak of a bodily resurrection as well. Many JW's point to Mark 16:9-20 as evidence for their position. However, the rules of textual criticism and translation state that the oldest (and therefore closest to the original) manuscripts must be assumed to be the most accurate. The oldest copies of Mark, found in the New Testament copies of Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus, do NOT have the passage of Mark 16:9-20. These documents were not available at the time of the writing of the King James Bible, but any copy of the NIV Bible (New International Version) will have a footnote or paragraph stating these verses are not in the oldest manuscripts. One must be careful to remember though, that the Christian church has NEVER taught that Jesus was raised in the EXACT same form in which he died. His body was raised and transformed into the spiritual body (still a physical form, and is referred to as such in the original Greek texts as still being physical in nature) in which he appeared to the disciples and several other witnesses.

This BARELY touches this topic, and many points can be expanded on greatly. If anyone wants to know more, post up, and I'll respond as I can. (I'm in finals at uni however, my time is pretty limited, but I'll do my best)

Salvation by faith alone is taught by Jesus, the apostle Paul and all other Biblical charachters and authors. (John 3:16 is a famous verse that makes this clear). Salvation is also called the "gift of God" in the Bible. A gift cannot be earned, it is given. Therefore deeds cannot earn a salvation that is a gift, as it would no longer be a gift, but a reward that was earned. Again, this is only touching on very basic points and I could type a whole essay on this. I will agree with you Baka, many people claim to be Christians and are not.

The cross next to my name is a Celtic cross. Irish legend says that St. Patrick converted the pagans of Ireland by combining their pagan symbol of the sun with the Cross to show them the imporance of the Christian symbol. I have it as my avatar because I like the picture, and I'm Irish. A symbol alone does not imply what one believes. I'm not Catholic, but I have a crucifix around my neck because of what it means to me symbolically, and what it reminds me of (a person I knew in this case).

JW's are a cult by the definition of the Christian church and even the secular definition. It demonstrates this in the control of its members in the secular definition, and the departure from bibilcal doctrines and the Christian doctrine of salvation by what the Christian church calls a cult from the religious standpoint. (IE: the bodily resurrection of Jesus)

As far as the refereneces to the sexual abuse committed by members of the Catholic church etc... Do not judge an entire religion, and the validity of what it teaches by the sinful acts of some associated with it. Christianity has never taught that those who believe will be perfect, on the contrary, it has always taught that sin will be committed by all. However, even Christians should remember and be aware, that their actions will be judged. The Bible and Jesus taught and brought the forgiveness of sins, it never says anywhere that ANYONE (even Christians) will not have to one day answer to God for their sins. It in fact says that every person will.

On second thought, since this digresses a lot as well from the thread, if anyone wants me to expand on ANYTHING I've said or has any questions, PM me. I'll answer as soon as I can.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Scientology is the way to go.



Aliens fuckin' rock.
Yes sir. It's pretty fucking ridiculous. I have some pretty big connections inside the Scientology church. I know a LOT about Scientology and just to let you know, South Park was pretty much dead on. I popped a cork off the champagne that night. It's even more ridiculous than South Park makes it out to be. Xenu is just the villain, so there's just so much more to Scientology.

I'm Catholic and I still only believe for the pure fact that religion is a good way to live your life. I'm sorry if I don't believe in parting seas and magic apples and shit like that. Catholicism has great guidelines to raise children but as far as dying and goiing to a magical land in the sky I just don't buy it. I believe iin god to a certaiin extent but kinda different than people believe in him as. I don't believe in god as a being, just kinda like he is everything. That way if I fuck up during the week I fucked up for life. I won't ask for forgiveness on Sundays.

[ESmorz]

Catholicism has great guidelines to raise children but as far as dying and goiing to a magical land in the sky I just don't buy it.

If that's the case can't you just buy one these:

http://my.detroitmagic.com/fay/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/kid-leash.jpg

and call it a day? :keke:

[an_orange_s2k]

damn this looks hella interesting

[MikeisNissan]

I'm watching this right now.. they are crazy imo. But Jim Jones was even crazier.

[cdlong]

I'm Catholic and I still only believe for the pure fact that religion is a good way to live your life. I'm sorry if I don't believe in parting seas and magic apples and shit like that. Catholicism has great guidelines to raise children but as far as dying and goiing to a magical land in the sky I just don't buy it. I believe iin god to a certaiin extent but kinda different than people believe in him as. I don't believe in god as a being, just kinda like he is everything. That way if I fuck up during the week I fucked up for life. I won't ask for forgiveness on Sundays.

that sounds more agnostic than anything.

Funny thing is all of Science is based on faith. Faith that the basic theorems and ideas behind the existence of atoms are the reason we exist.

no it's not, it's based on testable and repeatable empirical evidence.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

that sounds more agnostic than anything.
.
Yes, like an agnostic. I do though believe in the existance of god. Agnostic is such a broad term.

[SW20Racer]

Agnostic is such a broad term.

truth. when people try to tell me about jesus up here (it happens alot, i live across the street from a church) i dont get frustrated or upset, i spent 12+ years being raised in a god fearing household. i just let them know i believe in the possibility of a higher power, i just dont refer to it as "GOD". because in my mind, if their is a supreme being, how the hell you gonna know its name?

it always confused me, calling "god", "god" like "god" is his name. its a man-made term. i bet everytime someone says "please god..." he's like "MY NAME IS STEVE YOU DOUCHE!!"

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

truth. when people try to tell me about jesus up here (it happens alot, i live across the street from a church) i dont get frustrated or upset, i spent 12+ years being raised in a god fearing household. i just let them know i believe in the possibility of a higher power, i just dont refer to it as "GOD". because in my mind, if their is a supreme being, how the hell you gonna know its name?

it always confused me, calling "god", "god" like "god" is his name. its a man-made term. i bet everytime someone says "please god..." he's like "MY NAME IS STEVE YOU DOUCHE!!"

No you wiener, his name is Rabbit!!! My cat's name is rabbit! hence, my cat is THE higher power. whoda thunk it? :D

[2ilvia]

dudes
can any one of you guarantee me that everything i see on the natgeo presentation of the polygamist 'cult' is 100% factual and true?
NO
do i think polygamy is ok?
NO
should it be against the law?
NO

since evolution is govt. sponsored then polygamy should be encouraged, it would speed up the process and we will be robots in half the time. also, we used to have the pursuit of happiness and this would fall under that category

can you prove the guy in the robe is NOT the messiah?
to someone who wants to believe that yes, otherwise no

so my personal thoughts as if anybody cares; theyre on the highway to hell

[WERDdabuilder]

i love how he avoided the question about the laws of being naked or having sex with minors.

[Baka Sama]

You have been PM'd my friend :)


Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of His body. When therefore He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture, and the word which Jesus had spoken." John 2:19-22

The Greek word used here is "soma" (sO-mAH). It means a bodily form (either a corpse, or even a living form, but it means a BODY). There are many other verses which speak of a bodily resurrection as well. Many JW's point to Mark 16:9-20 as evidence for their position. However, the rules of textual criticism and translation state that the oldest (and therefore closest to the original) manuscripts must be assumed to be the most accurate. The oldest copies of Mark, found in the New Testament copies of Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus, do NOT have the passage of Mark 16:9-20. These documents were not available at the time of the writing of the King James Bible, but any copy of the NIV Bible (New International Version) will have a footnote or paragraph stating these verses are not in the oldest manuscripts. One must be careful to remember though, that the Christian church has NEVER taught that Jesus was raised in the EXACT same form in which he died. His body was raised and transformed into the spiritual body (still a physical form, and is referred to as such in the original Greek texts as still being physical in nature) in which he appeared to the disciples and several other witnesses.

Im sorry, I thought you were talking about what people like to call "the second coming" of Jesus at armagedon. I didnt realize till just now when I read your reply that you are talking about the short period of time after Jesus death. Yes Jehovahs Witnesses believe that Jesus came back in human form for a brief moment to talk with his disciples after his death. It says so just as you quoted. His looks were not the same as they knew of him (Luke 24:15-32) (John 20:14-16) but he did materialize into human form just as the angels had done before him. However at this time Jesus is not in human form. As we speak he is reigning in heaven as king in the same spiritual form he was before he came to earth. With that said, I dont understand the point your trying to make. It seems to me that we both believe the same thing.


Salvation by faith alone is taught by Jesus, the apostle Paul and all other Biblical charachters and authors. (John 3:16 is a famous verse that makes this clear). Salvation is also called the "gift of God" in the Bible. A gift cannot be earned, it is given. Therefore deeds cannot earn a salvation that is a gift, as it would no longer be a gift, but a reward that was earned. Again, this is only touching on very basic points and I could type a whole essay on this. I will agree with you Baka, many people claim to be Christians and are not.

Salvation by faith alone was NOT taught by Jesus. That is simply false. You point out John 3:16 that doesnt say those having faith but says those EXERCISING faith in him will have everlasting life. To exercise faith in someone you have to follow their commandments or teachings. Jesus came to earth not only to die and negate adam and eves sin so that we may live forever, but also as a teacher to show us what we need to do in order to gain salvation.


18 Nevertheless, a certain one will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well... 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected... 24 YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone. 25 In the same manner was not also Ra´hab the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? 26 Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

How can you deny this? If we fail to demonstrate our love and obedience by doing the things that the Bible says God and Christ want us to do. Without works to demonstrate our faith, our claim to follow Jesus would fall far short and be a lie. Thus, it is not just by faith alone that we recieve Gods gift of everlasting life. There are many many more scriptures that also come to mind about what we need to do to gain Gods gift.

The bible encourages us at James 1:22 to "become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. 24 For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is. 25 But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in [it], this [man], because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing [it]."

The bible clearly states at Galations 5:19-22 that "the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20. idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21. envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom. 22. On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23. mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law."

The cross next to my name is a Celtic cross. Irish legend says that St. Patrick converted the pagans of Ireland by combining their pagan symbol of the sun with the Cross to show them the importance of the Christian symbol. I have it as my avatar because I like the picture, and I'm Irish. A symbol alone does not imply what one believes. I'm not Catholic, but I have a crucifix around my neck because of what it means to me symbolically, and what it reminds me of (a person I knew in this case).

St. Patrick combined the cross with their pagan symbol to make it easier for them to convert. But why would someone combine any other false symbol with their own religion if they believe they had the true religion? And the cross or crucifix is FAAAAAAAARRRR from a christian symbol! Jesus did not die on a cross. While in few cases some people were nailed to a stake with a second beam at the top, that symbol was created my Pope Constantine using the lowercase "t" from from an ancient egyptian god Thoth he worshiped. Also many references say he created it with the symbol of the sun god. He is responsible in combining many pagan beliefs with christian teachings and confusing masses of people. This is just as the bible fortold.

Ever read the book, "The UnChristian Cross"?

JW's are a cult by the definition of the Christian church and even the secular definition. It demonstrates this in the control of its members in the secular definition, and the departure from bibilcal doctrines and the Christian doctrine of salvation by what the Christian church calls a cult from the religious standpoint. (IE: the bodily resurrection of Jesus)

Please tell to me how Jehovahs Witnesses are controled in the "secular definition".
We do not depart from biblical doctrines but on the contrary embrace the bible as the word of God. What we dont do is accept pagan teachings in or worship like EVERY other religion who claims to be christian does. We do not worship false idols such as the cross or pagan infested traditions like Christmas and Easter. Or should I say santa and bunny day.

[Mr. Camshaft]

no it's not, it's based on testable and repeatable empirical evidence.

:bowdown::bowdown:

[Baka Sama]

truth. when people try to tell me about jesus up here (it happens alot, i live across the street from a church) i dont get frustrated or upset, i spent 12+ years being raised in a god fearing household. i just let them know i believe in the possibility of a higher power, i just dont refer to it as "GOD". because in my mind, if their is a supreme being, how the hell you gonna know its name?

it always confused me, calling "god", "god" like "god" is his name. its a man-made term. i bet everytime someone says "please god..." he's like "MY NAME IS STEVE YOU DOUCHE!!"

Gods name is YHWH or more clearly pronounced in english as "Jehovah".

Its fact that occurs 7,000 times in the Hebrew text and 237 in the Greek scriptures.

It was taken out of most translations at the will of the church. But as stated in the bible Satan is trying as best as he can to confuse and to draw people away from God. A big way he did this was by removing Gods name from the holy scriptures.

[ronmcdon]

i think this dude just topped Karl Lagerfeld as an avatar worthy persona. thanks for the pic!

[ronmcdon]

can you prove the guy in the robe is NOT the messiah?
to someone who wants to believe that yes, otherwise no

so my personal thoughts as if anybody cares; theyre on the highway to hell

aside from some hypothetical absolutes like "1 + 1 = 2" is logically impossible to disprove almost anything. can you prove that YOU are not the messiah? I know I cannot. ppl who do care, well that's their choice. i just feel bad for the kids who are dragged into harsher institutions like scientology and the such.

[mRclARK1]

You have been PM'd my friend :)

Im sorry, I thought you were talking about what people like to call "the second coming" of Jesus at armagedon. I didnt realize till just now when I read your reply that you are talking about the short period of time after Jesus death. Yes Jehovahs Witnesses believe that Jesus came back in human form for a brief moment to talk with his disciples after his death. It says so just as you quoted. His looks were not the same as they knew of him (Luke 24:15-32) (John 20:14-16) but he did materialize into human form just as the angels had done before him. However at this time Jesus is not in human form. As we speak he is reigning in heaven as king in the same spiritual form he was before he came to earth. With that said, I dont understand the point your trying to make. It seems to me that we both believe the same thing.

Salvation by faith alone was NOT taught by Jesus. That is simply false. You point out John 3:16 that doesnt say those having faith but says those EXERCISING faith in him will have everlasting life. To exercise faith in someone you have to follow their commandments or teachings. Jesus came to earth not only to die and negate adam and eves sin so that we may live forever, but also as a teacher to show us what we need to do in order to gain salvation.

18 Nevertheless, a certain one will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well... 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected... 24 YOU see that a man is to be declared righteous by works, and not by faith alone. 25 In the same manner was not also Ra´hab the harlot declared righteous by works, after she had received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? 26 Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

How can you deny this? If we fail to demonstrate our love and obedience by doing the things that the Bible says God and Christ want us to do. Without works to demonstrate our faith, our claim to follow Jesus would fall far short and be a lie. Thus, it is not just by faith alone that we recieve Gods gift of everlasting life. There are many many more scriptures that also come to mind about what we need to do to gain Gods gift.

The bible encourages us at James 1:22 to "become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. 24 For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is. 25 But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in [it], this [man], because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing [it]."

The bible clearly states at Galations 5:19-22 that "the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20. idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21. envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom. 22. On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23. mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law."

St. Patrick combined the cross with their pagan symbol to make it easier for them to convert. But why would someone combine any other false symbol with their own religion if they believe they had the true religion? And the cross or crucifix is FAAAAAAAARRRR from a christian symbol! Jesus did not die on a cross. While in few cases some people were nailed to a stake with a second beam at the top, that symbol was created my Pope Constantine using the lowercase "t" from from an ancient egyptian god Thoth he worshiped. Also many references say he created it with the symbol of the sun god. He is responsible in combining many pagan beliefs with christian teachings and confusing masses of people. This is just as the bible fortold.

Ever read the book, "The UnChristian Cross"?

Please tell to me how Jehovahs Witnesses are controled in the "secular definition".
We do not depart from biblical doctrines but on the contrary embrace the bible as the word of God. What we dont do is accept pagan teachings in or worship like EVERY other religion who claims to be christian does. We do not worship false idols such as the cross or pagan infested traditions like Christmas and Easter. Or should I say santa and bunny day.

Gods name is YHWH or more clearly pronounced in english as "Jehovah".

Its fact that occurs 7,000 times in the Hebrew text and 237 in the Greek scriptures.

It was taken out of most translations at the will of the church. But as stated in the bible Satan is trying as best as he can to confuse and to draw people away from God. A big way he did this was by removing Gods name from the holy scriptures.

I'll try to keep this brief.

I was talking about anytime after the resurrection. Jesus was raised physically from the dead (there are many other verses in addition to the ones I gave that attest to this). Now, the body that Jesus died in on the cross, was the SAME body that was resurrected three days later. This body was however transformed into what the apostle Paul calls the resurrection body later in the NT. Jesus did not lose this physical form shortly after, he remained in it and ascended into heaven in this body. Jesus the man is flesh and bone and in heaven as such right now. He'll return in the same body at the second coming. All the points and arguements I would now make can be found here (http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesusisaman.htm)

In regards to salvation by faith and/or works:

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast."

Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us..."

These verses and many others are very clear. They are translated in the NIV directly from the earliest copies of the New Testament, and these translations have been verified countless times by trained Greek scholars. There is no mistranslation. Faith is what saves us. However a true and saving faith WILL be charachterized by works. The fruits in the verse which you quote are just that; FRUITS! The fruit is not the source of the very tree from which it grows, it's a by product of that tree. It is the evidence that a tree is producing fruit, and is really a fruit tree. This is the relationship between faith and deeds. Never has the Christian church taught that this is a free pass to do whatever you please, on the contrary, people who do so, and believe this, are condemned by Jesus himself, and later by Paul. The New Testament even goes as far to say that those who behave in this way are NOT saved quite plainly. A true Christian is saved by faith, and will reflect this in their deeds. this does not mean they will never sin, but their life will not be charachterized by sin. No one can live the perfect life required to be saved, only God's mercy allows us to be saved, but a true Christian realizes it is God's command that they at least try, and through this, live as much like Jesus, and how his teachings taught us to live, as they can.

Those are the important topics. The rest I'll save for another PM to you. Also, if you'd like to reply to this post, that's fine, but FYI I won't reply to your next one in this thread at all. This is getting off topic and is essentially a personal convo between me and you, I suggest anything further we limit strictly to PM's. :bow:

[WERDdabuilder]

holy crap, all you cunts that are bringing this bible crap in here, just stop. this was just about a Nat-Geo episode about a fucking cult not some damn bible verse/script shit.

how about all you preachers stop preaching and go back to touching choir boys. serious, can you guys just grow up and not bash on religion. i don't get why people get so damn offensive when it comes to religion. im an atheist and i don't care for religion, this was just an interesting subject.

so did any of you catch it?

[WanganRunner]

dudes
can any one of you guarantee me that everything i see on the natgeo presentation of the polygamist 'cult' is 100% factual and true?
NO
do i think polygamy is ok?
NO
should it be against the law?
NO

since evolution is govt. sponsored then polygamy should be encouraged, it would speed up the process and we will be robots in half the time. also, we used to have the pursuit of happiness and this would fall under that category

can you prove the guy in the robe is NOT the messiah?
to someone who wants to believe that yes, otherwise no

so my personal thoughts as if anybody cares; theyre on the highway to hell

+1

I can't say I'm big on the idea of polygamy, but I don't think it should be illegal. I don't think it should be illegal to run a cult either.

What we shouldn't overlook though, is that these are NOT THE REASONS why this place was shut down. They were shut down because this "messiah" was marrying and having sex with VERY underage girls. Essentially, the guy's a pedo, and this is why the group caught all the flak.

[Bushido]

Yup typical atheists and agnostics bullshit. I saw a response to a editorial from the LA Times that was great. There was an atheist trying to argue why intelligent design was flawed and why it explains that the whole theory of God is flawed because its all based on faith. Funny thing is all of Science is based on faith. Faith that the basic theorems and ideas behind the existence of atoms are the reason we exist.


You can't really be serious with a statement like that, can you?

The existence of atoms is backed up with evidence. It is a theory that can be tested and proven; therefore it is a fact that atoms exist.
There is no faith involved.

Science is not based on faith, In fact it is the antithesis of faith. Science is based on skepticism, investigation, and evidence.
It is a process that must always continuously test its own concepts and claims. There is no room for faith in science, as science is concerned with facts, and faith is not based on fact.

Faith, by definition, defies evidence. It is a belief that is not based on proof, go look it up in a dictionary. Faith is untested and unshakable, and therefore is in direct contradiction with science.

Science doesn't procure to answer all questions with a simple story. Religious faith however, does. Faith in religion is rigid, there is no room to question as there is in the scientific method. It begins with ancient texts of questionable origin and proceeds to asserting and insisting all of the facts of the universe within a few books.

Cults exist because people lack spirituality and feel empty. A common problem for atheists I might add hahahhahha j/k.Science recognizes the majesty and complexity of the universe while religions lead to easy, closed answers. Personally, I believe it is far more enlightening to see the world through a rational 21st century mind frame, concerned with fact, rather than one from the bronze age which believes in talking snakes, unicorns, and burning bushes.

I feel far more fulfilled embracing the mystery of the universe and seeking answers based on testable truth, rather than limiting my understanding and view of the world with the restricting box that is organized religion.



But thats just..like, my opinion... man.

[drift freaq]

that sounds more agnostic than anything.



no it's not, it's based on testable and repeatable empirical evidence.

You have empirical evidence as to how the universe was created? Wow your ahead of every scientist out there. Its stlll at the core based off a faith that has caused the search for facts.

Bushido, as far as your response to my post goes. You seem to be stuck to some pretty rigid beliefs there in your statements about Science. Atoms do exist but how do you explain there existence? It reachs a point where there is nothing left but faith to explain it. Now you can go ahead in construing statements out of what I said that are not true to what I believe or feel. Though you sir have a lot to learn about faith and Science.
If you think Religious Faith procures all answers with simple explanations you seriously lack in the study of Religions and beliefs.
I suggest you go study before making such broad generalizations about Religions, beliefs and faith. Not all dictionaries are correct and not all definitions are exact and there is such a thing as multiple definitions.

Once again you go read a small blurb on the net and spit it out as textbook.
Funny you do the same thing with your car knowledge. When you have lived life and studied stuff and have more experience you can comment on these subjects.

If you think Religion boxes you in your terribly ignorant. Tell that to the man that created TTL and large scale integration which laid the foundation for semiconductors giving you the computers you work on and the chips that power them. He has a PHD in Physics from Purdue and invented the first Silicon Transistor as well. He is Religious and devote and it does not box in his brilliance.


P.S. Oh ya and Stephen Hawking also stated the shear complexity of the Universe suggests the existence of God aka a greater being that created it.

[Andrew Bohan]

You can't really be serious with a statement like that, can you?

The existence of atoms is backed up with evidence. It is a theory that can be tested and proven; therefore it is a fact that atoms exist.
There is no faith involved.

Science is not based on faith, In fact it is the antithesis of faith. Science is based on skepticism, investigation, and evidence.
It is a process that must always continuously test its own concepts and claims. There is no room for faith in science, as science is concerned with facts, and faith is not based on fact.

Faith, by definition, defies evidence. It is a belief that is not based on proof, go look it up in a dictionary. Faith is untested and unshakable, and therefore is in direct contradiction with science.

Science doesn't procure to answer all questions with a simple story. Religious faith however, does. Faith in religion is rigid, there is no room to question as there is in the scientific method. It begins with ancient texts of questionable origin and proceeds to asserting and insisting all of the facts of the universe within a few books.

Science recognizes the majesty and complexity of the universe while religions lead to easy, closed answers. Personally, I believe it is far more enlightening to see the world through a rational 21st century mind frame, concerned with fact, rather than one from the bronze age which believes in talking snakes, unicorns, and burning bushes.

I feel far more fulfilled embracing the mystery of the universe and seeking answers based on testable truth, rather than limiting my understanding and view of the world with the restricting box that is organized religion.



But thats just..like, my opinion... man.


dude


it was all good til you started knocking unicorns.

lay off the unicorns man

that ain't cool

[cdlong]

You have empirical evidence as to how the universe was created? Wow, you're ahead of every scientist out there. It's stlll at the core based off a faith that has caused the search for facts.

no, sorry, i keep all my extensive scientific research on my other computer.

a faith in what i might ask?

Bushido, as far as your response to my post goes. You seem to be stuck to some pretty rigid beliefs there in your statements about Science. Atoms do exist but how do you explain their existence? It reaches a point where there is nothing left but faith to explain it.

that's true. no one said science explains everything. Bushido's "rigid" statements about science are based on the fact that the scientific method lays out exactly how to conduct research. the outcome of that research is literally limitless.

the rigidity of religion is that it can't really be studied, only interpreted. everything is already there. understanding is the goal, nothing new can be created. with science, understanding is a means to creating something new.

If you think Religion boxes you in your terribly ignorant. Tell that to the man that created TTL and large scale integration which laid the foundation for semiconductors, giving you the computers you work on and the chips that power them. He has a PHD in Physics from Purdue and invented the first Silicon Transistor as well. He is Religious and devote and it does not box in his brilliance.

what do his religous beliefs and understanding of science have to do with each other?

i tend to disagree with the Hawking comment, the complexity of the universe comes from a force that lacks focus and a common goal. if one single being created it, it would be much simpler and consistant.

[Bushido]

Bushido, as far as your response to my post goes. You seem to be stuck to some pretty rigid beliefs there in your statements about Science. Atoms do exist but how do you explain there existence? It reachs a point where there is nothing left but faith to explain it.

Why must we seek to explain the unknown with untestable claims? Why cannot we be comfortable in the unknown; systematically unveiling the mystery that it is, with a system that is designed to uncover facts about the way things work in our world, without having to believe in something that is impossible to prove by its design. I don't feel it is logical to blanket the unknown in faith just because we don't have a rational explanation for everything-yet.


Now you can go ahead in construing statements out of what I said that are not true to what I believe or feel. Though you sir have a lot to learn about faith and Science.
If you think Religious Faith procures all answers with simple explanations you seriously lack in the study of Religions and beliefs.
I suggest you go study before making such broad generalizations about Religions, beliefs and faith. Not all dictionaries are correct and not all definitions are exact and there is such a thing as multiple definitions.


You could do without the condescending dick head tone, you don't know me, or my level of education.
Religious faith does in fact answer all the "big questions" which have plagued Humanity since the human mind was able to think about such matters.

How was the earth created?
How old is the Earth?
Why are we here?
What comes after death?
Etc.

Religion has nice concise answers to these complex questions.



Once again you go read a small blurb on the net and spit it out as textbook.
Funny you do the same thing with your car knowledge. When you have lived life and studied stuff and have more experience you can comment on these subjects.

If you think Religion boxes you in your terribly ignorant. Tell that to the man that created TTL and large scale integration which laid the foundation for semiconductors giving you the computers you work on and the chips that power them. He has a PHD in Physics from Purdue and invented the first Silicon Transistor as well. He is Religious and devote and it does not box in his brilliance.


If you want to debate, lets debate about the topic at hand, not make childish comments about how you think I lack life experience.
You don't know me, dude.
Stop assuming.

As far as religion as "a restricting box", I believe it is irrefutable to deny that religion doesn't limit one's scope of the world, as opposed to somone who doesn't subscribe to any particular set of rules of belief.

A prime example is the divisive nature of religion, which is evident throughout it's history. Constant fighting over control of the "holy land" and perpetuation of hate towards your neighbor with a different belief. Just look at Israel and Palestine.

The repercussions of this inability to see outside of this particular "box" obfuscates the true picture and in turn, hurts humanity as a whole, as it stops our ability as a species to become more enlightened and tolerant. Religion creates divides between people which shouldn’t exist at all, since we are all part of one human family.



P.S. Oh ya and Stephen Hawking also stated the shear complexity of the Universe suggests the existence of God aka a greater being that created it.

I think you might have misconstrued what Hawking was actually implying. One cannot positively dispel the idea that the laws of nature could have been put in place by a "God", until evidence is found that disproves it.

Actually, Hawking has argued that there is 'no place for a creator', that God does not exist. In his quantum cosmology:There would be no singularities at which the laws of science broke down and no edge of space-time at which one would have to appeal to God or some new law to set the boundary conditions for space-time . . . The universe would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE . . . What place, then, for a creator?
What Hawking actually says about God in his Book, A Brief History of Time is, "One can define God as the embodiment of the laws of nature. Most people think of God as a human life being with whom one can have a personal relationship with. When you look at the vast size of the universe and how insignificant and accidental human life is in it, that seems most implausible".

[usdm180sx]

McClark it's hard to believe you are a well versed Christian after reading your signature. Just an observation :bigok:

[mRclARK1]

McClark it's hard to believe you are a well versed Christian after reading your signature. Just an observation :bigok:

I swear only on occasion in real life actually, but compared to most my language is a little liberal I suppose. haha... In the spirit of trying to clean it up (which I'm currently doing) I've edited my sig. :bow: My language has always been a bit of a problem spot for myself.

I never take the Lords name in vain however.

The bottom part is just song lyrics of a silly song. Anyone who's a Homestarrunner fan will know what that is. haha

[jspaeth]

FUCK YES! I watched that show, and it was awesome.

Michael Travesser FTW!!!!!!!!!!

That guy is awesome.

[TerryCzap]

As a member of this small "cult" (Strong City) which N/Geo described in a very brief, biased manner; I have had to wonder; how many of you have considered what Jesus and his little band of followers would have been viewed as, if they were in our current modern society in real life?

Would Jesus look as weird and disturbed as Mr. Travesser appears to some people? After all, Jesus was killed for being a criminal and a law breaker. The religious leaders of Jesus' day were the most adamant that He should be silenced. Society could only stand to be around Jesus for a little more than three years. Time will tell how long they can stand Travesser.

Terry
-------------------------------------------------------------
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, "higher education" destroys knowledge, governments destroy freedom, corporate media destroys information, atheist destroy free thinking, and religions destroy the voice of God

[flip3d]

It all started with Horus and Set. People took it from there and went off in different directions. Astrology FTW.

[drftmark]

Faith, by definition, defies evidence. It is a belief that is not based on proof, go look it up in a dictionary. Faith is untested and unshakable, and therefore is in direct contradiction with science.


Just an FYI that I thought was cool. I wouldn't use Webster to back up information regarding religion. Cause if you ask yourself what the definition of "truth" is and look it up it will say something about it being actual or something, whereas back in the day it was this

- Noah Webster (1828 Dictionary)
“Conformity to fact or reality; exact accordance with that which is, or has been, or shall be….We rely upon truth of the Scriptural prophesies”

Just something cool I saw on TV awhile back. It was some video series called "The Truth Project."

[s13 @ fullboost]

:drama: .....

[Bushido]

...I wouldn't use Webster to back up information regarding religion...
- Noah Webster (1828 Dictionary)
“Conformity to fact or reality; exact accordance with that which is, or has been, or shall be….We rely upon truth of the Scriptural prophesies”

Apparently you are right but just because a Christian wrote a certain dictionary doesn't make it right. However, you can look in any modern dictionary and see the same definition of faith, belief in something without proof. So what you present is superfluous, although interesting.

This is what i found about it:

"It is reported that Noah Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary contains the greatest number of Biblical definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education useless without the Bible". Noah Webster believed that the Bible and Christianity played important roles in the lives of a free people and its government. "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government, ought to be instructed.... No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people...."

This perfectly illustrates how delusional Noah Webster's opinions were (and why that definition no longer exists in the modern Webster dictionary) but you do have to cut him some slack as he lived a century ago.



There is no excuse however for the 225,000,000 people in America that still share the deluded ideas of Noah Webster.

[TerryCzap]

As it was with Jesus, so it is with Michael Travesser. As happened to Jerusalem 2000 years ago, so will it be with USA (The Great Satan).

Jesus came as "Bread from Heaven" saying that his Father had anointed him to be Messiah. He was viewed as a criminal by the authorities and was interrogated in their sham trials, while the mob yelled for his crucifixion. This happened even though Jesus did not commit any crimes.

Michael Travesser has appeared as "The True Husband" saying that his Father had anointed him to be the Messiah. The media and the mob are now having their sham trial whereby Michael is presented as a criminal, though no crime has been committed. When the dust settles, and after the U.S. has been destroyed by their own rebellion to the Supreme Judge, every knee will bow and acknowledge that Michael was indeed "The Son of God".

[DWvinny]

wow this thread is crazy!! haha!!

The road to righteousness and enlightenment is long and hard ........most people just give up and become assholes along the way.