can't manually crank engine

[SoguRacing]

ok so i just installed my new cams. hks step 1 256 dur at 10.5mm lift. got everything put in and torqued down to specs and went to manually crank the engine but can't make a full revolution by hand. is this normal due to the higher lift and the springs pushing back harder? any input/advice would be nice thanks.

[nissanfreak317]

the engine will put up a little bit of resistance due to compression and i guess a tiny bit from springs, but should rotate with a breaker bar.

double check that the cams are installed properly.
and did you bleed the lifters?

[SoguRacing]

no, didn't bleed the lifters. how would you go about bleeding the lifters

[burnsauto]

You need a container that will hold this amount of oil. The lifter needs to be completely submerged into oil. You also need something skinny to poke through the hole on the top. I chose one of the allen wrenches that I had. It is long enough and provides a nice L so I can grab on to it easier.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~taesoo/SRHead/IMG_0335.jpg
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~taesoo/SRHead/IMG_0336.jpg

Submerge the lifter into the container filled with oil and keep the lifter upright. Now you see why it's nice to have a container thats narrow because it keeps the lifters upright.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~taesoo/SRHead/IMG_0337.jpg
Now using the allen wrench, "jerk it off" like shown in the video. Do this many many times until you see absolutely no bubbles coming out of the lifter.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~taesoo/SRHead/MVI_0339.avi

[300hp owen]

lol

you said to jerk it off.

thats funny.

[SoguRacing]

thanks for the write-up. but..why do you need to bleed the lifters. what is it that causes them to fill with air?

[burnsauto]

thanks for the write-up. but..why do you need to bleed the lifters. what is it that causes them to fill with air?

you usually only need to bleed the lifters if you're doing a full on, top end rebuild. Not sure if HKS recommends you do this. Are you sure everything was torqued down to spec, and in the right tightening order?

try removing the spark plugs if you already haven't.

[SoguRacing]

haha, did everything mentioned above. the crank will turn a bit then gets very stiff and almost wants to stop. I want to force it but i know that won't be good. Already removed the spark plugs, so the lifters should be bled? how did i get air into them? from manually cranking it?

[burnsauto]

haha, did everything mentioned above. the crank will turn a bit then gets very stiff and almost wants to stop. I want to force it but i know that won't be good. Already removed the spark plugs, so the lifters should be bled? how did i get air into them? from manually cranking it?

unless you took them out..the bleeders shouldnt need to be bled.

[IRN]

timing chain done?

[SoguRacing]

didn't take them out/ didn't touch them, swapping the cams took only an hour now i'm stuck with trying to manually crank the engine...which i can't do. should i try harder?? i dont want to break/bend something in the valvetrain

[SoguRacing]

what do you mean by timing chain done. it didn't have much slack in it from moving the crank to seeing the cams move. should be within spec. and yes, the chain is on the guide. i got the cam to rotate about 1/2 of the way then it stops.

[LongGrain]

is there any chance you changed your timing at all?

i havent worked on an SR yet, so i dont know if they are interference motors, but when your crank stops turning, does it feel like metal on metal contact? your valves could be making contact with your pistons if you messed up your timing..

[SoguRacing]

nope, just feels like there's resistance, like the springs are extra stiff..which would make sense due to the extra lift and duration but, i tried muscling it a few times and i get the crank to move about 30 degrees then the rachet swings back at me. timing should be the same

[ej2civic]

is there any chance you changed your timing at all?

i havent worked on an SR yet, so i dont know if they are interference motors, but when your crank stops turning, does it feel like metal on metal contact? your valves could be making contact with your pistons if you messed up your timing..

either this is happening or you are reaching the top of a compression stroke which is pushing the bar back at you, but with the spark plugs out you should not be having this problem

[SoguRacing]

I know man I know, i'm just frustrated that everything went in smoothly and now this is happening

[boogerlovers]

when you took the cams out did you take out the tensioner first??? just wondering it could have something to do with the tensioner putting too much tension on the chain, or maybe even kinking the chain a bit...and as for the lifters, i don't think it would have anything to do with them...but technically your supposed to change out the lifters for new ones every time you change cams because the lifters are used to the stock duration, and will wear your new cams the same way that the stock cams were wearing. Any who your cams aren't going to last too long. I hope you fix your motor though, and props for doing shit yourself :D

[SoguRacing]

Thanks for the info, and thanks for "props" i'm very mechanically inclined but can't figure out why this is going on the way it is. I did not take out the tensioner just pushed in the little thing that catches the teeth that pushes on the lever. as for the lifters i dont think its that them either. i loosened the spark plugs but maybe didn't loosen them enough. i'll try again tomorrow. should i reinstall them?? they look as they did with the normal stock cams inside.

[boogerlovers]

yeah take the spark plugs all the way out...idk i just finished rebuilding my redtop and i had a similar problem and it ended up being my tensioner...sux but messing shit up is part of doin it yourself...

[SoguRacing]

Its part of learning hah, sucks tho. but what was up with your tensioner? too tight right? how would i loosen it? do it with the thing that stops the little teeth from sliding out?

[boogerlovers]

turns out that the little clip broke and kinked part of the chain...instant FAIL haha...but yeah man just try and retrace the steps that you took to change out those cams...

[SoguRacing]

well, maybe i have some kind of bind in there, i'll take a closer look at it tomorow. props for helping. its much appreciated, hope it will reciprocate back to you sometime in the near future. i'll let you know what happens tomorrow.

[IRN]

what do you mean by timing chain done. it didn't have much slack in it from moving the crank to seeing the cams move. should be within spec. and yes, the chain is on the guide. i got the cam to rotate about 1/2 of the way then it stops.


did you leave the cam sprockets still linked to the chain when you removed the cams? if you took the sprocket teeth off the chain your timing might be off. does the marks line up 100% to fsm? it needs to be lined up on the sprockets with the 2 dots and chain marks. I had the same problem and the chain skipped a few teeth on the bottom and the top looked almost perfect. you might have the piston hitting the valve.

[98s14inaz]

...I had the same problem and the chain skipped a few teeth on the bottom and the top looked almost perfect. you might have the piston hitting the valve.

Same here. My vote is for setting tdc and starting from scratch. Take the front covers off and make sure your timing chain is right. Last thing you want is to bend valves and have to rebuild everything. Once you mess up you need to start over. Learning curve...lol

[burnsauto]

when you took the cams out did you take out the tensioner first??? just wondering it could have something to do with the tensioner putting too much tension on the chain, or maybe even kinking the chain a bit...and as for the lifters, i don't think it would have anything to do with them...but technically your supposed to change out the lifters for new ones every time you change cams because the lifters are used to the stock duration, and will wear your new cams the same way that the stock cams were wearing. Any who your cams aren't going to last too long. I hope you fix your motor though, and props for doing shit yourself :D

Now besides going to a solid lifter conversion...please do tell what other options you have if you're supposed to change the lifters every time you change the cams.

HKS step 1 cams lift is actually a drop from the stock lift (i think the hks ones are 10.4 iirc) so it shouldnt be a matter of too much lift, etc.

You may just have to redo everything, and make sure the chain isn't binding up. Don't you love stepping backwards? ...feels awesome, doesnt it.:bigok:

[redtop91]

Are you weak? I'm not trying to be insulting or snide either, because I am. It's hard for me to crank the engine on the compression stroke unless I use a breaker bar.

[tangch]

Is your car still in gear? Happen to me when I reset my timing...

[SoguRacing]

ok well finally got back online after a few router problems. Update: the car was in 4th gear. My bad, went over everything and everything seemed fine until i looked into the car and saw that it was in gear, i've got a short shifter i guess i mistkened it for neutral. haha. now the car runs. YAY!! timing is at 15deg BTDC and well, i still have an idle problem like a had before. I think its a bad tps, when i keep the throttle constant the voltage eventually goes down to zero.. so THANKS FOR THE HELP EVERYBODY ITS SO MUCH APPRECIATED THAT DIY GUYS LIKE ME GET SOME FRIENDLY HELP ON ZILVIA. MUCH APPRECIATED!! +1 to all.

[SoguRacing]

By the way..What is the stock lift and duration of s13 cams? Also, for those wondering, I will be getting a tune as soon as i get my turbo and injectors installed.

[burnsauto]

By the way..What is the stock lift and duration of s13 cams? Also, for those wondering, I will be getting a tune as soon as i get my turbo and injectors installed.


adv. duration:
256°/248°

duration @ .050:
203°/194°

lift (inches)
.399"/.370"

lift (mm's)
10.13/9.40

[boogerlovers]

ok well finally got back online after a few router problems. Update: the car was in 4th gear. My bad, went over everything and everything seemed fine until i looked into the car and saw that it was in gear, i've got a short shifter i guess i mistkened it for neutral. haha. now the car runs. YAY!! timing is at 15deg BTDC and well, i still have an idle problem like a had before. I think its a bad tps, when i keep the throttle constant the voltage eventually goes down to zero.. so THANKS FOR THE HELP EVERYBODY ITS SO MUCH APPRECIATED THAT DIY GUYS LIKE ME GET SOME FRIENDLY HELP ON ZILVIA. MUCH APPRECIATED!! +1 to all.
haha well at least it was nothing major...:hsdance: :keke: :bigok:

[SoguRacing]

Thanks. mine are the hks step 1 256 in/ex with 10.5mm lift

[SoguRacing]

haha well at least it was nothing major...:hsdance: :keke: :bigok:

seriously, i thought maybe i had to take it in but did some tough thinking around 2am last night and came to the 90% conclusion..yes 90% conclusion that I had left the car in gear after torquing the cam gears down and that was the problem. now i need some 740cc injectors. anybody got any?? :bigok:

[300hp owen]

rofl, the car was in gear, thats priceless.

nice to hear its ready to run though.

always take the spark plugs out when you just want to see how hard the motor is to turn over by hand / wrench on the crank pulley bolt... that way you get a good feel for the piston clearance and rotating assembly.

[Jlee]

adv. duration:
256°/248°

duration @ .050:
203°/194°

lift (inches)
.399"/.370"

lift (mm's)
10.13/9.40

so with hks 272 step 2.. i belive lift is around 12mm... do lifters have to be upgraded?

Jon

[SoguRacing]

it is advised that you upgrade head components when you step up that much lift, though never heard of changing lifters every time you upgrade cams. info please :)

[burnsauto]

so with hks 272 step 2.. i belive lift is around 12mm... do lifters have to be upgraded?

Jon

upgrade the springs and retainers.

[Jlee]

haha k.. *phew* springs and retainers upgraded... as long as i can still use the stock lifters... sorry for the thread jack.. i'm just actually doing the same...

Jon

[SoguRacing]

No worries, all questions pertaining to the head are welcome. no factual information will be pushed away

[Signum Temporis]

question.... do u use the factory service manual?

[SoguRacing]

i think i downloaded the one from heavythrottle.com not sure tho. its for an s14 but in "most" cases used for an s13.