All motor 240 ideas.

[YaItsGotAHemi]

I am thinking about keeping the ka24e and going the all motor route...
I figure the obvious place to start is the 5 speed swap. But I want to get a higher geared rear end. The car will not be a daily driver so just about anything goes for the build.

Questions:
What is the highest geared setup I can use? And can you point me into a direction to find some info on it?

Do the KA24E and KA24DE use the same exhaust manifold flanges?

[stupid nissan]

how much power are you trying to make because an all motor build on a ka24e could get quite expensive

[trsilvias13]

ka24e and ka24de uses different exhaust manifold flanges.

If you want high output off the ka24e - contact robello racing in nor cal.

If you want high output off the ka24de - look up greaser (freshalloy member)

[The ROMAN]

The highest all motor KA I've heard of are the ITA engines that make 200hp. There is one guy on here who built a KA like that too, it shoots massive flames and runs on race gas I think? They are expensive and you need to really need to know how to tune them.

If you really want "all motor" best bet is to just make it easy and get an LT/LS series V8...or just limit your goals to 140hp and keep the KA.

[wannabe_drifter]

Here's the 200 whp ka24de that is shooting flames
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfQ4eA626kM
I think he was not quite at 200 on that vid though, but he is now.

His nick is Greaser_, he is on some other nissan forums

[racepar1]

If all he could get is 200hp on race gas the he wasn't doing it right! The SCCA GT2 and 3 cars use KA's and the single cam's make over 250hp! Besides if you wanna go monster you can make more than that because you are not limited by any rulebook. Brian Crower has a 2.65 litre stroker kit for the KADE's. That combined with a great head (porting, BIG valves, etc...), ITB's, high compression (like 12 to 14 to 1 high), race gas, cams, and a great ECU should be able to put more than 300hp and torque to the pavement.

[EJ253]

i think its pretty easy to shoot flames when your exhaust is only 2 and a half feet long

[supergoob]

how many miles is on your engine?

[YaItsGotAHemi]

2xx,xxx don't know specific mileage but i know it has to be tired and ready for a build. I have a Neon that is going to be the turbo project so i want an all motor build with a 240 and would be happy with a mid 13 second time. don't care about power levels. just want a nice powered nice looking 240. because a neon will never look nice.

[Devil Man]

If all he could get is 200hp on race gas the he wasn't doing it right! The SCCA GT2 and 3 cars use KA's and the single cam's make over 250hp! Besides if you wanna go monster you can make more than that because you are not limited by any rulebook. Brian Crower has a 2.65 litre stroker kit for the KADE's. That combined with a great head (porting, BIG valves, etc...), ITB's, high compression (like 12 to 14 to 1 high), race gas, cams, and a great ECU should be able to put more than 300hp and torque to the pavement.

interesting. i wounder if you could do all that and just not have to use the race gas and take the hit on power.... hmmmm good post.

[racepar1]

The KA's are MUCH more potent than mose people realize. You can get 200hp out of a budget build if you do it right.

[haz-e]

I never dynod my NA KAE motor, but it was much faster than my 180whp/ftlb KAET. Had 12.7:1 CR, custom cam grind care of PDM on Nismo Blank, P&P head, Port matched, balanced, straight exhaust, and ECU work, reworked intake.

As has been said its not cheap but its worth it. Its even better becuase most people thow out great motors when they swap to the faactory turbo'd ones.

Buy an FSM and become friends with a machinist.

[johngriff]

I would swap an S2000 Engine in before building a KA.

[KA240SX808]

Cervasa on 240SXF made 187 with:
Exedy Stage 2 Clutch
Fidanza 11lbs FW
P & P w/ 5 Angle Valve Job by Cosworth
Ferrera 1mm OS Int/Exh Valves
Ferrera Dual Springs and Retainers
Bc 272 Cams
Xcessive Intake Mani
Hotshot Intake
Dc Header
Catco 3"
RS*R Ex MAg
Cometic 91mm HG
ARP Main and Rod Bolts
Wiseco 90.5mm 10.5:1 C/R Pistons
Eagle Rods
UR Crank Pulley
Sard FPR
Walboro 255lph Pump
JWT Cam Gears
Thermal Intake Gasket
DeatschWerks 450cc injectors
Deso Iridum Plugs
Magnacor Wires
Crank Scrapper

[haz-e]

Just get a decent cam, exhaust, and shave your head before you invest in a NA KA. It'll give you a little taste Contact E1 Egriego (SP?) on here for a bitchin ECU tune.

[racepar1]

I would swap an S2000 Engine in before building a KA.

I guess you hate torque or something then! There is absolutely NOTHING at all wrong with a N/A KA build. For the cost of swapping a stock s2k motor I could build a KA that would spank the hell out of an s2k motor! Shit s2k's barely pull on me on the straights with my stock KADE.

[johngriff]

Gotta dyno for your KADE?:coolugh:

[racepar1]

I dynoed it a few years ago when it was absolutely bone stock and it had about 140whp and 135 tq. It should have somewhere around 150-160whp and 135-145 tq, but the compression is a bit low and it seems to have lost it's oompth, if you know what I mean. I don't really understand why this is significant to this thread though.

[johngriff]

Because I would swap an S2000 Engine into a S13 before building a KA.

Thats why.

Greasers car is Totally radical. But, he spent money on his KA build. It wasn't cheap. ITB's and a standalone? No, not cheapening out at all.

Its just after that much money, I would rather just put an S2000 engine in.

[racepar1]

But the built KA would cost around the same amount of money as swapping in the stock s2k motor and the KA would have way more torque and most likely more horsepower too. I think Carrol Shelby said it best "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races". That is the 100% TRUTH right there. The s2k motor would rev better and have a better top end, but the brute force torque of the KA would rocket the car off the corners.

[toufu]

vh45de....nuff said...

[KA240SX808]

And he's running 89.5mm Bore, my bad

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/files/1053136_waig3/240sxkanadyno.JPG

[johngriff]

How much torque does a built ka make?

[racepar1]

vh45de....nuff said...

If you really want to post the end-all of N/A motors it would be the ls1! Fuck the vh45!

[racepar1]

And he's running 89.5mm Bore, my bad

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/files/1053136_waig3/240sxkanadyno.JPG

How much torque does a built ka make?

Well it looks like that one makes about 170lb/ft and it's only making 183hp according to the dyno sheet so it's not ridiculously built.

[KA240SX808]

^http://www.zilvia.net/f/showpost.php?p=1951944&postcount=14

Well he's got a good amount done but he still has some stuff he can do to push him past the 200 mark. He hasn't messed with the Cam timing yet, he still hasn't underdriven the whole system yet. an Z32 MAF would probably aid him with his tuning because the stock S13 MAF is an G60 60mm so, I'm pretty sure upgrading to the Z32 MAF w/ a custom 3" intake pipe could yeild a few more ponies.

[racepar1]

Things he can almost certainly do to make more power:
BIG valves
Race head porting and de-shroud the valves
HUGE bore
stroker kit
badass standalone EMS with a great tune

I'm willing to bet he hasn't done a ton of porting work on the head and manifold. He probably has the janky ass clamped on motorcycle throttlebodies rather than a REAL intake mani with throttlebodies that have the correct bore size. The intake manifold and head is where the vast majority of the power is on an N/A motor and most people don't want to break the bank there. But if there is one place that you wanna break the bank on an N/A build it is the head/mani!

[KA240SX808]

Yeah he Can still go w/ the 90.5mm Bore 10.5:1

These are his head flow numbers:


1mm Oversized valve I & E
Valve Lift / CFM

Intake:
.100" = 122
.200" = 228
.300" = 316
.400" = 332
.500" = 379
Exhaust:
.100" = 106
.200" = 193
.300" = 253
.400" = 278
.500" = 281


and hes has 1mm OS Valves which IIRC are the biggest I've seen so far, head flows pretty damn well. and I'm sure and AEM EMS or Haltech could tune it better then that eMAnage Ultimate

[jspecusa]

jason's old setup:
stock KA24DE with injen cold air intake, 60mm pipping exhaust, and aem ems.
dyno'd 165 at the rear wheel.
that's without more work like bigger throttle body, ITBs, cams, ported head, header,more spark, and injector upgrade.
like everyone said NA route is fun, but not fast compare to the dollar per hp gain going turbo route.
240 are heavy cars, most NA setup are for light weight cars like honda, miata, or ser.
4.6 is the highest you can get, order it from nissan motor sport/westco justin.
I had the 4.6 on a s13 with sr20de, it was fun shifting but gets tiring after awhile.
good luck,

sam

[racepar1]

Yeah he Can still go w/ the 90.5mm Bore 10.5:1

These are his head flow numbers:



and hes has 1mm OS Valves which IIRC are the biggest I've seen so far, head flows pretty damn well. and I'm sure and AEM EMS or Haltech could tune it better then that eMAnage Ultimate

But how does the manifold flow? The stock s-13 KA MAF is holding him back A LOT as well. Seing as 10.5 to 1 is higher compression than what he's got I'm assuming he's running pump gas, which is also holding him back. Not that I would want to run race gas all the time either. But there are a million ways to get more power, and after you think you've got all you can there are a million little tricks to get just a bit more.

[KA240SX808]

True, that little 60mm G60 MAF is just crap for making power lol, and the Mani I wanna say flows pretty good because I see alot of KA-T guys using it so it must be making some power. I'm not sure I get what your quite saying here, "Seing as 10.5 to 1 is higher compression than what he's got" he's running the 10.5:1 C/R pistons just not the 90.5mm bore, he's got the 89.5mm bore. Also the HG is .5mm Bigger then his bore (90mm) so that drops his C/R ~.15 ish maybe .2 which I stil dont think is a big diff. And yeah VP Racing Fuels came out w/ an Import 116 octance Fuel to replace the C16 because of high cost and they made IIRC an 132 whp Increase on an SR20DET set-up, so I'm pretty sure that could spell atleast 50 N/A whp.

D-Sport mag did the article:

http://www.dragsport.com/issue/2008/0408_tech.shtml

[KA240SX808]

4.6 is the highest you can get, order it from nissan motor sport/westco justin.
I had the 4.6 on a s13 with sr20de, it was fun shifting but gets tiring after awhile.
good luck,

sam

Do they still make 4.6? he Highest one I know of is there 4.463 FD, and how was the mpg w/ that 4.6 must have been harsh but hella fun to drive.

[johngriff]

Front transfer case of the Xterra is where you will find them used.

[Matej]

All these cars are running about 300hp n/a KA24E's I believe.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/ConePirate/Rob%20Sherod/Nats02.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/ConePirate/Rob%20Sherod/Nats011.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/ConePirate/Rob%20Sherod/Nats03.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/ConePirate/Rob%20Sherod/Nats012.jpg
http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v195/17/62/500187389/n500187389_351542_6301.jpg

[mugendork]

:wackit:thats all I have to say...

[KA240SX808]

Front transfer case of the Xterra is where you will find them used.

Ah, I see

an yes GT3 KA24E's = Teh Sex, also hitting 8500rpm also :)

[steve shadows]

Because I would swap an S2000 Engine into a S13 before building a KA.

Thats why.

Greasers car is Totally radical. But, he spent money on his KA build. It wasn't cheap. ITB's and a standalone? No, not cheapening out at all.

Its just after that much money, I would rather just put an S2000 engine in.

John doesnt mean that he is just trying to drive you guys nuts.

KA24DE with cams + AEM + Headers + Exhaust/ Intake will make more usable power and torque than an S2000 engine, in fact stock for stock on a road course if you know what you are doing straigh line is almost the same.



ps. The 300 HP NA KAs are rated as Brake output, so they are more like 250whp, and they run on 110 or alchohal only.

Compression ratio is sky high.

About the highest you can get in a street car is aroun 180-200whp. Even Greaser has to run 100 octane or higher all the time

or his setup pings like crazy.

[YaItsGotAHemi]

well like i said a mid 13 second time will be fun for me. i just want a rwd car to drive and to look nice. My neon is the drag/corner car. on street tires it will hit some 12's and look bone stock... all the way down to the exhuast. the 240 is about the style and i wouldn't mind playing around with drifting. nothing serious cause nothing like that is around wichita, ks.

My setup for now will hopefully be like this:
4.6 gears if i can find them
1.5 or 2 way diff
cam
intake
header back exhaust and a computer tune.

If i feel like that wont cut it i will go with a factory rb20 swap and be good.

[s14_legend]

n/a route is a good way to go thats the route im taking at the moment

[morbid]

Are there any Nissan 4bangers that make good power NA with just bolt ons? What about V/I-6's besides the VQ35? I'm kind of jealous of honda owners when it comes to bolt on N/A power. Those k20's can make ~210 - 230 easily.

[KA-T_240]

I am running .60 over high compression pistons. They may be SOHC, not sure, no part numbers on them. semi-ported head and intake manifold. AEM intake and a hotshot Header on my DD. Got all the parts for pretty much free or close to. Not looking for major power, not high performance tunes....... retarted timing and all that. If i lived closer to a dyno I would probably mess with tuning it more.

[Matej]

the 240 is about the style and i wouldn't mind playing around with drifting. nothing serious cause nothing like that is around wichita, ks.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u52/Fintonevia89/Posterend.jpg

[dragon_x330]

ITB's and Brian Crowers Fully Counterweighted Crankshaft are gonna be your new best buddies for a ka24de n/a build.

Although they are also uber expensive.

[allmotorKA]

Front transfer case of the Xterra is where you will find them used.

And to add to that, the 2004 Xterra had the 4.9 R&P.

[eclipse_dsm]

I'm actually starting to rebuild my S13 KA24DE for Hi-Comp setup. I'm looking into KA24E SOHC Pistons, Clevite rings on Main,Rod,Piston. Might keep the bolts but definitety Cometicl HG. And move my ZEX Wet kit for 55hp. I'm also considering an ITB's but the EMS conversion involve is what's holdin me back. Beside I'm still collecting parts. GL.!!

[cgtdream]

Dont forget to do your research/math on possible cam combo's....from experiance, i know you can eek out more power by what cams you decide to settle on....and dont fall for the advertised cam profiles on sites as a base....call up a camshaft shop, and talk to them, get to know them, because they can point you in the right direction...and yes i agree, with the statement that the KA can possibly make much more power than 200hp...then again, im not gonna be the one to prove it...

[steve shadows]

Jim Wolf is a good person to talk to about NA Nissan stuff

[KA240SX808]

ITB's and Brian Crowers Fully Counterweighted Crankshaft are gonna be your new best buddies for a ka24de n/a build.

Although they are also uber expensive.

Arent those Cranks 102mm Stroke or do they have stock stroke Ful--CW cranks? I mean tha KA's got high Piston speeds already and I dont think the 102mm stroke would help. I mean those GT3 KA24E's use the Stock 1/2 Counter weighted cranks but there are a few mods they do to it to help keep them together at 8500rpm's. I would like to try the Xcessive GSX-R ITB Intake mani but CA FTL

[Matej]

Do KA ITB's still have to be custom made, or does anyone sell them now?

[racepar1]

The 4.6 and 4.9 ring and pinion sets from the front diff of the x-terra are bolt-in? Is there any specifics that I should know? Like only certain years will work or you need to use different bearings? I wanna get on that ASAP as shorter gears will help me A LOT at the track. I just wanna remind all of you that think the 300bhp GT-3 KA's are impressive that they are somewhat restricted. The throttlebody/carburator bore size is restricted, the bore is restricted, and the stroke is restricted. If those guys were let loose the engines would make at least 50 more HP.

[KA240SX808]

Yes, those things are just ridiculous

Also the only ppl that make an ITB Mani for you is Xcessive, you send them a set of GSXR ITBs and your intake that this is what you get:

http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com/prodimg/assy5.jpg

[imperial562]

this is sad... you guys expect to low from a KA motor.
If any of u guys know abot these Honda Motors, then you know how much further we can take a NA KA.
http://a70.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/120/l_8fd33e13823b9989e5d2a35cf497010d.jpg
http://a817.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/72/l_8e6c211aa7f1c9dde1596b175802a420.jpg

[bo2o]

wouldnt you want a shorter gear? so you can smash thru your gears reallie quick

with a NA build i would start about by sending the block and head to machien shop.

get 90mm bore pistons h beam rods or cyro treat your stock
90 mm with 11 or 12 to 1. then square port with port, and polish and get new valve train new head studs nismo cam, and get a 5 angle valve job.
custom intake mani or port match your stock and put q45 tb.
jack knife your crank new crank pulley i think ati one would b good. hotshot headers 555cc injectors kould be found on rx7 not shure what they have exactly but there pretty high fpr and walbro.
ecu tuning. or emanage. wideband o2
that should be what your looking for should be good up to 200 whp

ive heard on a fresh block with juss mods to the head can get your 180hp.

[racepar1]

Yes, those things are just ridiculous

Also the only ppl that make an ITB Mani for you is Xcessive, you send them a set of GSXR ITBs and your intake that this is what you get:

http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com/prodimg/assy5.jpg

Nice! What is the bore size of the gsxr throttlebodies though? I'm not convinced that it is big enough to really support 2.4 litres of displacement. After all they were designed for 1000cc motors, that's less than 1/2 the displacement.

EDIT: I did a quick calculation and the numbers I came up with make me more suspicious.

2400cc x 7500rpm is 18million cc/min
1000cc x 15,000rpm is only 15million cc/min

According to those numbers the bore size of the gsxr throttlebodie is almost certainly not quite sufficient to support 2.4 litres of displacement. I don't know the redline of the gsxr off of the top of my head though so if it's higher than 15,000 rpm's then the numbers will get closer. Basically these numbers are just to compare approximately the maximim airflow that the throttlebodies were designed for to the maximum airflow needed for the extra displacement. These are just a tool to compare, not actual real numbers.

[KA240SX808]

I believe the GSXR-1000 02'+ ITB Dia. is ~42.5mm IIRC, I'm sure you can get someone to bore them out to 44mm.

I did some research and it seems the 98-99 GSX-R750 ITB's would be more Ideal w/ the Butterfly dia at 46mm

[KA240SX808]

this is sad... you guys expect to low from a KA motor.
If any of u guys know abot these Honda Motors, then you know how much further we can take a NA KA.
http://a70.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/120/l_8fd33e13823b9989e5d2a35cf497010d.jpg
http://a817.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/72/l_8e6c211aa7f1c9dde1596b175802a420.jpg

Yeah but look at the Honda's VE compared to ours, there in the very High 80's low 90's, were probably in the low 70's. I mean they can run 11:1 C/R and still be on pump gas before pinging, w/ 10.5:1 KA's have to actually watch them selves before they start pinging. So I dont think our motors should be compared to an Honda one atleast. I might be missing the point here but thats what I'm seeing. D-Series SOHC FTW :hsdance:

[KA240SX808]

wouldnt you want a shorter gear? so you can smash thru your gears reallie quick

Yes that's why we Opt for the Nismo 4.364, Xterra 4.6 & 4.9

[KA240SX808]

I believe the GSXR-1000 02'+ ITB Dia. is ~42.5mm IIRC, I'm sure you can get someone to bore them out to 44mm.

I did some research and it seems the 98-99 GSX-R750 ITB's would be more Ideal w/ the Butterfly dia at 46mm

Our intake runners are ~44mm: So I think the 98-99 750 ITBs are more then enough

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/BigVinnie/MMcheck2.jpg

[jim1234664]

But the built KA would cost around the same amount of money as swapping in the stock s2k motor and the KA would have way more torque and most likely more horsepower too. I think Carrol Shelby said it best "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races". That is the 100% TRUTH right there. The s2k motor would rev better and have a better top end, but the brute force torque of the KA would rocket the car off the corners.



uhh but the stock f20c would actually be reliable....

[Matej]

How reliable are built n/a motors?
If we were to compare a crazy built KA vs. a mild KA-T, which one would be most likely to blow first if they're both driven hard?

[sillyvia13]

I would say a na ka...
when you push HARD for power...you usally lose alot of life! in motor.
IMO and exp.

a hardcore ka would be fun....like a rip around a track in the sohc race cars...110 octane...fun funfun

[sav180]

i think sooon as a couple of people build a na ka set-up that puts out over 200hp with out goin too over board then all the nay sayers will fall back..you guys are talkin the same way as when people 1st starting to turbo the ka's,sayin all this negative shhht and now they got ka-t puttin out over 700 hp...so let's cut da sh*@ and work together to make this happen...

[wannabe_drifter]

About ITBs. gsx-r 1000, they are 42 mm at the smallest point.

The hayabusas 1300 are supposed to be 46 mm.

[racepar1]

Our intake runners are ~44mm: So I think the 98-99 750 ITBs are more then enough

Who says our stock runners are big enough to support a high HP N/A set up in the first place? I would think somewhere around 50mm is more what you would want personally. I'm going to check the SCCA rule book that I have at home to see what the KA's throttlebodies are restricted to.

uhh but the stock f20c would actually be reliable....

Why wouldn't a moderately built and well tuned KA be reliable? KA's are known to be pretty bulletproof!

[sidewayson]

http://www.az240sx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=36276 NOT too much horse but the responce is unbeatable.

[KA240SX808]

Who says our stock runners are big enough to support a high HP N/A set up in the first place? I would think somewhere around 50mm is more what you would want personally. I'm going to check the SCCA rule book that I have at home to see what the KA's throttlebodies are restricted to.

Well I meant enough as far as comparing them to the stock Intake runners which I agree, for our 2389cc's 42 and even 46 are kind of small. But I'm sure if you bore the ITB's to 50mm and the Intake Runners because those things are beefy, I have an Excel program that does ITB's calculation for an engine I just have to find it.

[Matej]

What are the most popular ITB's among Corolla owners to run on 4AG's, are the GSXR the commonly used ones?
Is there a good website where I can read up on how ITB's work and learn more about them?

[Signum Temporis]

ls1 swap. then drive really really fast.

[racepar1]

ls1 swap. then drive really really fast.

Wow! Spectacular insight! {sarcasm} Seriously what does this have to do with an all motor KA?

[Signum Temporis]

Wow! Spectacular insight! {sarcasm} Seriously what does this have to do with an all motor KA?

it has nothing to do with it, an ls1 is better than all motor ka :fawkd:

[KA240SX808]

Yeah, NO!

As for MateJ:

Here's some Specs on some Cycle ITB's:
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?topic=39723.0

If that's of any use to you

[s13 drifta]

it has nothing to do with it, an ls1 is better than all motor ka :fawkd:

There is always someone that has to come in a NA KA thread and say the Ls1 is better, for what reason, it has more power? Too bad it has 4 more cylinders to make that power. I myself would rather spend less than half the money towards a 200whp na ka setup while still keeping the stock motor.

[Signum Temporis]

well... as the thread is called "all motor 240 ideas." i posted a reply "ls1 swap. then drive really really fast." then someone wants to get on my case about it and give me -13 rep.

[racepar1]

well... as the thread is called "all motor 240 ideas." i posted a reply "ls1 swap. then drive really really fast." then someone wants to get on my case about it and give me -13 rep.

Dude THIS thread is about all motor KA's! An LS1 has nothing at all to do with this thread. We all know that the LS1 is an all around better motor, shit I want one myself! But that's not the point here. A well built, ITB, all motor KA is badass and anyone who says different is a moron!

[haz-e]

Sure would be swell if the KA's were square motors. You can purchase the higher revving valvetrain stuff from Rebello. Last time I had checked their site I could sworn they had complete engines listed. I thought Rebello also slightly destroked the KA? DeviousKA on here has done alot of work to the NA SOHC KA, suprised he hasn't chimed in; His car ran mid/low 14's I think. Devious was looking into destroking but no sure if he got there, or found it feasible v cost.

[racepar1]

Meh, I want the BC 2.65 litre stroker kit! I want TORQUE! GOBS of brute force torque! High revs are cool and all, but just not what I want from my KA.

[KA240SX808]

Plus the BC Crank is Fully-CW so I'm sure you could still take it upto 7k, thast enough for me.

[240cracker]

id say VQ swap..

[racepar1]

id say VQ swap..

UGH! Not AGAIN! THIS thread is about all motor KA's what does a VQ swap have to do with that at all? Please keep this crap outta here.

[KA240SX808]

What happened to this thread? lamo

[g6civcx]

UGH! Not AGAIN! THIS thread is about all motor KA's what does a VQ swap have to do with that at all? Please keep this crap outta here.

The title of the thread was misleading. I originally thought he wanted any NA motor in a 240, but if you actually read the first post you find out that he really wants to build a KA-E NA motor.

Reading comprehension? What's that?

[MikeisNissan]

yeah if everyone played by the rules here I would like this thread.

[Tulok]

the destroking kit sounds like the way to got for ultimate power.
when you destroke a motor the average piston speed goes down, allowing you to safely rev higher.
That, combined with a super aggressive cam, oversized valves, 14-15:1 pistons and individual throttle bodies would definitely give the flow and revs needed to make all that power.
not to mention underdrive pulleys, race tuned headers, electric fans etc.
any flaws i am missing here?

[irax]

Nice! What is the bore size of the gsxr throttlebodies though? I'm not convinced that it is big enough to really support 2.4 litres of displacement. After all they were designed for 1000cc motors, that's less than 1/2 the displacement.

EDIT: I did a quick calculation and the numbers I came up with make me more suspicious.

2400cc x 7500rpm is 18million cc/min
1000cc x 15,000rpm is only 15million cc/min

According to those numbers the bore size of the gsxr throttlebodie is almost certainly not quite sufficient to support 2.4 litres of displacement. I don't know the redline of the gsxr off of the top of my head though so if it's higher than 15,000 rpm's then the numbers will get closer. Basically these numbers are just to compare approximately the maximim airflow that the throttlebodies were designed for to the maximum airflow needed for the extra displacement. These are just a tool to compare, not actual real numbers.



what about itbs off of a 1300cc?
or boring out the itbs?

[Def]

well like i said a mid 13 second time will be fun for me. i just want a rwd car to drive and to look nice. My neon is the drag/corner car. on street tires it will hit some 12's and look bone stock... all the way down to the exhuast. the 240 is about the style and i wouldn't mind playing around with drifting. nothing serious cause nothing like that is around wichita, ks.

My setup for now will hopefully be like this:
4.6 gears if i can find them
1.5 or 2 way diff
cam
intake
header back exhaust and a computer tune.

If i feel like that wont cut it i will go with a factory rb20 swap and be good.

To really go mid 13s in an S13 without extensive weight reduction, you're going to need somewhere in the 215-230 rwhp range. I don't think a streetable NA KA is going to get you there.

You might crack off a high 13 second pass in a 2500 lb car when you spend a lot of time chasing a little power here and there. In a car with full interior and AC, I'd say you'd be good hitting low 14s.

[Tulok]

I bet you could find some that are bigger than the busas, and retrofit them to the KA.
At what point would an NA need upgraded injectors?

[300hp owen]

Wow! Spectacular insight! {sarcasm} Seriously what does this have to do with an all motor KA?same weight
same power
not boosted
half the cost
hmmm
ls1 ftmfw!!!!!!!

;)


okokok fine!
so to make 250+whp on a ka u need itbs, tuning, stroker, big cams, custom headers, headwork up the wazooo, oh man you better have deep pockets!!! no thanks there are much better/simpler ways to be as fast.

[racepar1]

same weight
same power
not boosted
half the cost
hmmm
ls1 ftmfw!!!!!!!

;)


okokok fine!
so to make 250+whp on a ka u need itbs, tuning, stroker, big cams, custom headers, headwork up the wazooo, oh man you better have deep pockets!!! no thanks there are much better/simpler ways to be as fast.

Your info is WRONG! The LS1 has:

More power

The ka is not boosted either.

A well done LS1 swap will cost just as much as building a badass all motor KA, more if you cannot do your own fabrication as the bolt-in kits generally suck.

You felt the need to bump this thread with wrong info that has nothing to do with this thread at all, you FAIL! If you think a proper LS1 swap is ANY simpler or cheaper than a well done all motor KA then you need to pull your head out of your ass. You don't want an all motor KA, cool.......good for you! But if you are not interested in an all motor KA then what the hell are you doing posting in this thread? :tweak:

[300hp owen]

wow you got your panties all in a bunch over what, wow dude chill the eFF out, thanks for the neg. rep, thats so cool. you rock.

many people mentioned the GT2/3 cars running 300HP all motor KAs and THAT IS WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO you fucking douchebag.

an all motor KA that is comparable in power to an LS1 will cost MORE than the LS1, imho.

lol you are messed up in the head man, or you think the LS1 swaps are hard as hell and uber expensive... Ive done LS1 swaps so I have a bit of knowledge on the subject, but you, are you being a bitter dreamer or just a douche today. posts like yours with hysterical negativity and no room for humor are just another reason the intArweb sucks.

lol. you fail.

[Tulok]

Check this out guys,
http://www.race-cars.com/engsales/other/1059606209/1059606209ss.htm
gives a lot of the specs,

[racepar1]

wow you got your panties all in a bunch over what, wow dude chill the eFF out, thanks for the neg. rep, thats so cool. you rock.

many people mentioned the GT2/3 cars running 300HP all motor KAs and THAT IS WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO you fucking douchebag.

an all motor KA that is comparable in power to an LS1 will cost MORE than the LS1, imho.

lol you are messed up in the head man, or you think the LS1 swaps are hard as hell and uber expensive... Ive done LS1 swaps so I have a bit of knowledge on the subject, but you, are you being a bitter dreamer or just a douche today. posts like yours with hysterical negativity and no room for humor are just another reason the intArweb sucks.

lol. you fail.

A well done ls1 swap will have about 400hp, a well built KA (gt3 spec or so) will have about 300hp, YOU are wrong. A LS1 motorset with wiring harness, ECU, trans, and all the pumps will cost you about $3500-$5000. Then you either have to buy the mount kit or build your own. That will cost around $1000. THEN you have to have a custom exhaust made, which will be around $500 or so (guessing) for a well done mandrel bent set-up with mufflers. THEN you need a driveshaft, probably $300-$400 for a nice custom one. Then you need to have the wiring done (if you are not capable of doing it yourself), let's say $400 (maybe a little too much). So far we are up to $5700-$7300 and that does not include a LOT of stuff like intake, belts, hoses, fluids, radiator, etc... Most of the things I listed 99% of people will HAVE to pay for, the wiring is the one exception. You can save some money by putting the mount kit together yourself, but the cost in YOUR labor time will more than offset the cost of that. I have done the research and want a LS1 myself, but that is not the point. The point is that this thread is not about ANY other N/A engines than the KA's. You fail and got neg repped because YOU felt the need to bump this thread, which has run it's course already, with info that has nothing at all to do with this thread and is not correct. You can build a pretty damn badass KA for about the same amount of money as a LS1 swap and it is less complicated since the KA is the original engine for the car. If YOU don't like the KA then what is the point of YOU posting in this thread? Go post in the "v-8 240sx faq" or any of the multitude of KA hating threads here.

[300hp owen]

rofl.
in all of that jibberish you fail to even mention how much the GT3 spec all motor 300hp KA would cost... so how are you making a comparison at all? FAIL.

I would not fear saying that a GT3 spec 300hp KA would be very expensive... thats a race motor and damn thats not cheap.

my '98 LS1T56 dropout was $2500. I even went balls out and paid $800 to have my LS1 harness reworked and PCM tuned. um, to get that into a 240 is not that difficult even if you buy parts, and you still get to SELL THE KA that you arent using any more. I mention a '98 LS1 because theyre cheap and they are pushing the same hp that the GT3 KA motors are pushing, so its an apples to apples hp comparison and thus the cost is the item in discussion. the misc. parts needed to have the car up and running are just peanuts, chump change, when you consider the RACE PARTS and tuning up the fucking WAZOOO that you'd need to churn out 300hp from a KA. or did you want to stoke your KA as well and have that super rare rotating assembly on your list of items to purchase so you can have a $10,000 300hp KA? um, did you even think about the beefing up you'd need to do to the KA tranny to relaibly push 300hp thru it? or were you going to run a Z32 trans and an adapter and all that crap, that costs BUTTLOADS of money.

why so bent over my "bumping the thread", wtf, its not like it was a dead month old thread. I never said I didnt like the KA and quite the contrary, stop making assumtions on my beliefs, wtf. I am the last guy who would be an LS1 nazi.

ya know what, people were discussing the costs involved, LS1 got mentioned, I added my 2cents with humor and you FAIL to realize that.

and another thing, if you think a GT3 spec KA is less complicated than a bare bones LS1 swap in a 240sx, well then I have news for you, its not. go find a competent shop and ask them to price out a 300hp KA setup with a tranny and bolt ons that will endure that and support the power, then dont be surprised when its almost twice as costly as swapping in an early-gen LS1T56 setup to get the same power and even better gearing.

yeah I know the thread was about n/a KA but threads evolve beyond the initial post, dont they? whatever. fucking forum police yay!

[300hp owen]

so someone posted then erased it but -

"check this out" - http://www.race-cars.com/engsales/other/1059606209/1059606209ss.htm

yeah NO SHIT!

"This is a race ready SCCA GT3 engine. Does not include flywheel, clutch, or mag PU bracket and carbs. These parts are available for additional cost"

on top of the SIXTY FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
racepar = fail.

[timster]

Just dropping by. I've weighed options, N/A, RB, KA-T, SR20, LS1, and I've driven almost all of them (gotten rides in others). Bang for the buck, if you don't mind not being a "purist" and being a complete and utter "failure" then LS1 is pretty siqq.

Owen you FIAL. :)

[timster]

And yeah, for a siqq nasty N/A build (rough prices, even worse estimates than yours, racepar):

Pistons 500
Rods 400
Flywheel 300
Clutch / PP 500
Valves / Springs / Retainers 300
Cams 600
ECU / AEM EMS (gotta make it run?) 500-1700
Machining (headwork gets expensive?) 500+
Stickers 5

So that's 4000+ dollars for <225 horsepower.

Just my two cents.

[kapowerhicomp1]

kapowerhicomp is the way i have 11 . 1 compression build block and head and 262 bc cam , jim wolf ecu with two programs 91,100+ ..... i have beat a few red/black top sr on street and also on the track..........ka is the easy way without cops fuckin with you ......... pop you hood:bite: :madfawk: you can have 220+hp or more . without cop and people knowing........:rawk: make life easy on you...kapower..................................... ................

[S14SwimShark105]

hahahaha I could not stop laughing at this post lol good good point over racepar he got :Owned: :D

Building engines aren't cheap let alone building a fully built N/A motor. To be putting out 300hp on a KA I would think it would need to be rebuilt very often. So the cost of getting a KA to 300hp and the maintenance wouldn't even be worth it unless you have a big budget to play with.


wow you got your panties all in a bunch over what, wow dude chill the eFF out, thanks for the neg. rep, thats so cool. you rock.

many people mentioned the GT2/3 cars running 300HP all motor KAs and THAT IS WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO you fucking douchebag.

an all motor KA that is comparable in power to an LS1 will cost MORE than the LS1, imho.

lol you are messed up in the head man, or you think the LS1 swaps are hard as hell and uber expensive... Ive done LS1 swaps so I have a bit of knowledge on the subject, but you, are you being a bitter dreamer or just a douche today. posts like yours with hysterical negativity and no room for humor are just another reason the intArweb sucks.

lol. you fail.

[flip3d]

What's wrong with the SR20DE? They look like they make good power.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/flip3d/e24004-020.jpg

[300hp owen]

/\/\/\/\ that is gorgeous!!!!!!!!
all aluminum SR20 is so nice!

[timster]

//// that is gorgeous!!!!!!!!
all aluminum SR20 is so nice!

.. Where are the other four cylinders?

[racepar1]

$6400 is a bargain for a race-ready longblock. Ever seen the prices for a formula atlantic spec 4ag from an engine builder? It'll make you have a heart attack. With an LS1 swap it is not hard to spend around $7000-$10,000. Yes you can do it cheaper if you hunt for deals and/or have hookups. But you can build your own GT3 spec KA longblock for cheaper if you hunt for deals and/or have hookups too. It is no cheaper to do an LS1 swap then it is to build a badass KA, PERIOD. I am "policing" (as you say) this thread because it WAS a good thread. Good discussions on what it takes to make a KA badass, and that is the whole point here. Now it has turned into the same old crap, a discussion on what the best N/A motor is. The KA is not the best motor in the world, we all know that, but it IS a good motor.

TIMSTER: $4000+ for a 225hp motor sounds EXACTLY like a SR to me! People spend that kind of money for that kind of power on SR's all the time (including the swap)! What makes the KA not worthy? A 200hp N/A KA will absouluely OWN a 200hp SR because the KA 1: has more torque 2: is a n/a motor and therefore has better response than a turbo motor (assuming the tuning is well done).

[irax]

only problem with NA sr is that those of us in the US have to invest into atleast 2k just to get the motor and then your going to have to invest into the build.
And I bet you good money that he spent more than 6k just to have 220 NA hp

where is that 200hp na ka for about 1k link?

[300hp owen]

It is no cheaper to do an LS1 swap then it is to build a badass KA, PERIOD. I think you are dead wrong if you compare an LS1 and a KA that put down the same power numbers thru the same type of durable drivetrain. reason being the KA is more stressed, high strung, on the edge to produce the same numbers. I'll concede the difference probably isnt much, but I do believe the LS1 is cheaper, hp for hp... especially in the long run when you have to consider rebuilding and general maintenance.

imho the SR's (w/coil packs) and LS1's both have better ignition than the KA, stock for stock and I think the LS1 wins hands down in the stock computers tuning capabilites and low costs of tuning.

[racepar1]

I think you are dead wrong if you compare an LS1 and a KA that put down the same power numbers thru the same type of durable drivetrain. reason being the KA is more stressed, high strung, on the edge to produce the same numbers. I'll concede the difference probably isnt much, but I do believe the LS1 is cheaper, hp for hp... especially in the long run when you have to consider rebuilding and general maintenance.

imho the SR's (w/coil packs) and LS1's both have better ignition than the KA, stock for stock and I think the LS1 wins hands down in the stock computers tuning capabilites and low costs of tuning.

If you are looking at it as a ratio of hp/$ of course the LS1 is cheaper. It comes stock with more than double the hp of the KA. A high HP KA is definitely high strung, any 4-cylinder motor pushing that king of hp is high strung. There is really no comparing an LS1 to a KA though. The LS1 is the superior motor, HANDS DOWN. But to say that an LS1 swap is any cheaper or easier than building a good KA is wrong. IF the LS1 swap is any cheaper it is only marginally so and only if you are doing an all-out GT3 KA build. You can build a 200hp or so, pump gas burning, all motor KA for way less than swapping an LS1 and it will still be a ton of fun and outperform most SR cars at the track.

[irax]

its stupid to compare a 4cyl to a V-anything your ignoring the simple fact that it has more cylinder it will always be easier to make more power with more cylinders

[floodo1]

d00d seriuosly ls1 weighs how man times more than a ka?

[Mr. Jesse]

200 hp is weaksauce for that kind of money.

d00d seriuosly ls1 weighs how man times more than a ka?

ls1 w/tranny ~ 500
ka24de w/tranny ~ 450

ka's are heavy as shit

[floodo1]

200 hp is weaksauce for that kind of money.



ls1 w/tranny ~ 500
ka24de w/tranny ~ 450

ka's are heavy as shit

as heavy as an ls1? and seriously.....THIS THREAD IS ABOUT KA's NOT LS1's

[timster]

I fail at multiquoting, so I'm not going to bother.

Racepar: That was a low estimate pricewise and a high estimate with horsepower. And really? N/A is more responsive than Turbo? I thought you had to build vacuum with a N/A.

irax: Then why do people say the replacement for displacement is boost? Just messing with you, but if you're going to consider one (KA) then you've got to consider the other (LSx). They've got their pros and cons, and to each their own I suppose.

flood: Fail. Look at the title again. I'll reiterate for you. "All motor 240 ideas." Not all motor KA ideas, not all large letter / bold / oblivious answers.

Edit: Don't take me for some KA hater. I've got one in the car now, and I've got one in the garage. I've got enough stuff to make two more KA powered 240s. I'm a car guy, though, and I like all around cars. I'm a fan of the KA engine, simply because of how it's progressed in the past few years, but I won't be going that route with my car.

[racepar1]

d00d seriuosly ls1 weighs how man times more than a ka?

Sorry dude, but an LS1 engine with trans, clutch and flywheel, and all pumps and accessories weighs significantly less than a KA with all the same stuff on it.

Racepar: That was a low estimate pricewise and a high estimate with horsepower. And really? N/A is more responsive than Turbo? I thought you had to build vacuum with a N/A.

You have to build boost with a turbo motor, NOT vacuum with a N/A motor. You have it backwards. Well built/tuned N/A motors are known for razor sharp throttle response. As for the title of the thread it is a bit misleading, if you take the time to read the first post you will see that the OP is only interested in all motor KA ideas, NOT an argument over what is the best N/A motor to swap in. The bottom line is that there is NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT. The REALLY hardcore turbo KA's that I have seen make more power and torque than any of the REALLY hardcore SR's that I have seen. This is because of the larger displacement. More displacement means the motor can spool a bigger turbo faster, which means a better power/torque curve and more overall hp. The other advantages that the KA have are:

1: Iron block- An iron block is more durable and handles high cylinder pressures and heat better. This means more boost or compression.

2: More reliable valvetrain- Since the KA's have the cams pushing directly on the bucket lifters instead of the stupid SR rocker arms there are less moving parts and less potential problems.

[aa87]

Less potential problems in the top end.

The bottom end of the KA is where the problems arrive.

Why have the head for revs and the bottom end for big stroke rod throwing extravaganza.

[infinitexsound]

only 1 person i have read thru has the right idea...

i cant believe theres another one of these threads...

1 word blueprint

de gt3 motors make 310, scca rulebook from what i remember for running SIR was 31mm... and e are around 290ish

its not hard to build a solid rocker system for the 12valve, to get it to rev high just takes some brains a drill press and parts.. from random cars....hint* 22r....for the de...running over bucket shims kinda is problematic when revving really high.. thats why you gotta go underbucket...

torque wins races and is fast... high revving machines are cool for sweeping tracks but when it comes down to it... gotta have torque... last time i heard about rebello is that they have been building grenades this is just thru club racing rumors though.. i dont really care.. dave's a cool guy...

when one of you decides to engineer the best engine package available...i will give u props... but until then keep trying...or keep talking...

personally who ever uses the gsxr itb setup is weird.. when theres other bad ass methods to do it....im not knocking, im just stating theres other better methods to do it...

[irax]

irax: Then why do people say the replacement for displacement is boost? Just messing with you, but if you're going to consider one (KA) then you've got to consider the other (LSx). They've got their pros and cons, and to each their own I suppose.


even if you were to compare a 4cyl that is lets say 3 liters and v6 or v8 thats 3 liters they still wouldn't even be comparable. Regardless, the more cylinders the engine has it will be able to make more power and sustain higher rpms.

also they really should of named the thread all motor ka or something along those lines.

and the whole idea of this thread is to avoid spending on another motor just to build it up. cuz' if it wasn't i would of suggested to swap in a vq30 or vq33 or a vq35 and call it a day, and don't be an idiot and go stand alone on a VQ.
Stand alone on a vq is like trying to make your sega master system play GTA4. But thats neither here nor there right now.

[CKAMC]

I am suprised that no one has mentioned NA RB

There are plenty of them, just not usually imported but they are cheap.

lots of options whether it be a rb20 all the way to rb30 (rb20 pushing 155 stock, rb25 pushing 190 stock, and rb30 pushing 240 with only head swap from a rb20)

might take some work or asking to get a NA clip but they go for about 2k give or take depending on the usual factors

[irax]

i thought you could swap a rb26dett head onto an rb30e ?

[g6civcx]

A well done LS1 swap will cost just as much as building a badass all motor KA, more if you cannot do your own fabrication as the bolt-in kits generally suck.




an all motor KA that is comparable in power to an LS1 will cost MORE than the LS1, imho.

Ive done LS1 swaps so I have a bit of knowledge on the subject


You are both right. V8 swaps can be cheap, but it's not going to be quality. I've seen just about every LS1 mount kit on the market and they're all crap.

owen, peep my posts in the V8 thread.


The only proper way to do any motor swap is to shove the motor as far back as possible. My firewall was moved back at least 6" and the motor shoved as far back as possible for better weight distribution.

My carb sits much lower than the intake plenum on comparable LSx mount kits due to the way their mounts sit on the subframe. Mine sit extremely low and requires no mod to the subframe.

The conclusion is that both people are right. Move on.


This thread is about NA KA-E single cam. If you want to argue other motors, please start your own thread or post in the thousands of other threads arguing the same thing.

[CKAMC]

i thought you could swap a rb26dett head onto an rb30e ?

ran into it on aussie skyline forum... they actually have a NA section with quite a few threads which suprised me

[infinitexsound]

All these cars are running about 300hp n/a KA24E's I believe.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/ConePirate/Rob%20Sherod/Nats02.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/ConePirate/Rob%20Sherod/Nats011.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/ConePirate/Rob%20Sherod/Nats03.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/ConePirate/Rob%20Sherod/Nats012.jpg
http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v195/17/62/500187389/n500187389_351542_6301.jpg

lol The Wonderbread car........LOL its been a long time since ive seen that car....blue s13 is collin jackson from somewhere north i think hes from canada or washinton....green car ive seen run a few times, the car is pretty consistent, red car might be Eureka High race car....its a 350z Body great program they got going.

Collin Jackson won a few SCCA Run-Offs.... very fast car man...

some of those cars run carbs and msd ignition..

Collin just switched to FI, from what i remember running sds efi...

I wish the Run-Offs wasnt in kansas... but at Miller motorsports track.....Kansas track looks horrid and ghetto...kinda like Buttonwillow...but Flat...Flat-out?

[water]

How many street cars have made over 200whp w/ a KA? 1, right?

How long have ppl been messing with KAs? 10+ years?

This should tell you that, in all likely hood, 180~190whp is about as good as its gonna get.

Speculation about race engines NONE of you will ever own is retarded. Especially considering that with a 13.5:1 CR, you'll need to run race gas. And get frequent rebuilds.

[g6civcx]

How many street cars have made over 200whp w/ a KA? 1, right?

How long have ppl been messing with KAs? 10+ years?

This should tell you that, in all likely hood, 180~190whp is about as good as its gonna get.

Speculation about race engines NONE of you will ever own is retarded. Especially considering that with a 13.5:1 CR, you'll need to run race gas. And get frequent rebuilds.

While I agree with you, if the OP has the budget and wants to do it, why should we stop him?

[kapowerhicomp1]

my plans to run e85 gas and retune ecu ,injectors 272 bc cam.........easy 230++on 11:1 compression....... E85 is 105 oct. $3.50g:naughty:

[Def]

Right... Good luck with that one.

It's probably not half as easy as you are thinking it is. 230 whp from an NA KA and staying together for a relatively long street life is probably almost impossible.

[water]

While I agree with you, if the OP has the budget and wants to do it, why should we stop him?

I'm not stopping anything. All he has to do is fork over $6500.00 The rest is just :blah: :blah: :blah:

[timster]

--

Oh the wonders of bore / stroke / coinciding revability. <- sweet word.

But yeah dude, I agree with you. I saw N/A options, not N/A ka-(d)e options. Figured I'd stick up for the end I liked, considering I've driven stock and mildly built cars in all three categories.

Nice analogy by the way.

[racepar1]

How many street cars have made over 200whp w/ a KA? 1, right?

How long have ppl been messing with KAs? 10+ years?

This should tell you that, in all likely hood, 180~190whp is about as good as its gonna get.

Speculation about race engines NONE of you will ever own is retarded. Especially considering that with a 13.5:1 CR, you'll need to run race gas. And get frequent rebuilds.

Why do you think it is so difficult to make 200 hp with a KA? Do a mild build on the bottom end, get it balanced and blueprinted, spend the REAL money on the head/intake manifold, get a good ECU and get it tuned well, and just the normal bolt ons from there (intake, exhaust, headers, etc...), and there is your 200hp. It's not that complicated, you just have to pick the right cams and get a good tune. Most people who build KA's for 240's are doing budget builds, not full builds. That is why you do not see very many 200+ hp KA's. Not because it is really complicated or terribly difficult, but because people like YOU do not think that it is worth it. If you don't like it and would rather spend your money on a golden turd SR then go ahead and do it. Just shut the fuck up about things that you don't really know about. If you really think that a GT3 spec KA is the ultimate KA and it can't get better than that you are an idiot. They are restricted to only the singlecam (which doesn't flow as good as the DE), they are restricted on the throttlebody bore size that they run, and they are restricted to stockish bore and stock stroke. Without those restrictions I am willing to bet that you could push 400hp out of a N/A ka with a huge budget.

EDIT: You are a fucking douche for neg repping me for my dyno numbers from like 3 years ago! WTF is wrong with you? Post up your dyno numbers bitch!

[timster]

Sorry dude, but an LS1 engine with trans, clutch and flywheel, and all pumps and accessories weighs significantly less than a KA with all the same stuff on it.



You have to build boost with a turbo motor, NOT vacuum with a N/A motor. You have it backwards. Well built/tuned N/A motors are known for razor sharp throttle response. As for the title of the thread it is a bit misleading, if you take the time to read the first post you will see that the OP is only interested in all motor KA ideas, NOT an argument over what is the best N/A motor to swap in. The bottom line is that there is NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT. The REALLY hardcore turbo KA's that I have seen make more power and torque than any of the REALLY hardcore SR's that I have seen. This is because of the larger displacement. More displacement means the motor can spool a bigger turbo faster, which means a better power/torque curve and more overall hp. The other advantages that the KA have are:

1: Iron block- An iron block is more durable and handles high cylinder pressures and heat better. This means more boost or compression.

2: More reliable valvetrain- Since the KA's have the cams pushing directly on the bucket lifters instead of the stupid SR rocker arms there are less moving parts and less potential problems.

Dude, I was COMPLETELY bullshitting you. Holy shit. I quit.

E-Sarcasm doesn't work.

Thanks for explaining how a turbo vs. N/A engine works, though. Can you explain what the windshield wipers do next?

[kapowerhicomp1]

:bigok: Why do you think it is so difficult to make 200 hp with a KA? Do a mild build on the bottom end, get it balanced and blueprinted, spend the REAL money on the head/intake manifold, get a good ECU and get it tuned well, and just the normal bolt ons from there (intake, exhaust, headers, etc...), and there is your 200hp. It's not that complicated, you just have to pick the right cams and get a good tune. Most people who build KA's for 240's are doing budget builds, not full builds. That is why you do not see very many 200+ hp KA's. Not because it is really complicated or terribly difficult, but because people like YOU do not think that it is worth it. If you don't like it and would rather spend your money on a golden turd SR then go ahead and do it. Just shut the fuck up about things that you don't really know about. If you really think that a GT3 spec KA is the ultimate KA and it can't get better than that you are an idiot. They are restricted to only the singlecam (which doesn't flow as good as the DE), they are restricted on the throttlebody bore size that they run, and they are restricted to stockish bore and stock stroke. Without those restrictions I am willing to bet that you could push 400hp out of a N/A ka with a huge budget.

EDIT: You are a fucking douche for neg repping me for my dyno numbers from like 3 years ago! WTF is wrong with you? Post up your dyno numbers bitch!
yup............................................... ......thats right

[timster]

Why do you think it is so difficult to make 200 hp with a KA? Do a mild build on the bottom end, get it balanced and blueprinted, spend the REAL money on the head/intake manifold, get a good ECU and get it tuned well, and just the normal bolt ons from there (intake, exhaust, headers, etc...), and there is your 200hp. It's not that complicated, you just have to pick the right cams and get a good tune. Most people who build KA's for 240's are doing budget builds, not full builds. That is why you do not see very many 200+ hp KA's. Not because it is really complicated or terribly difficult, but because people like YOU do not think that it is worth it. If you don't like it and would rather spend your money on a golden turd SR then go ahead and do it. Just shut the fuck up about things that you don't really know about. If you really think that a GT3 spec KA is the ultimate KA and it can't get better than that you are an idiot. They are restricted to only the singlecam (which doesn't flow as good as the DE), they are restricted on the throttlebody bore size that they run, and they are restricted to stockish bore and stock stroke. Without those restrictions I am willing to bet that you could push 400hp out of a N/A ka with a huge budget.

By then it's not much of a KA anymore.. so why do it, unless you're a crazy KA fanboi. Even with that amount of work you can have a different engine that will perform better, and far more reliably, for a cheaper cost. But whatever, do what you will. :)

Lol and you guys fail for the negative repping. I'm not entitled to express my opinions? At least I don't throw around a slew of swear words like a few of you scholars.

[infinitexsound]

a micrometer, few companies parts book with specs, grind you own cam, new pistons,headwork.... 200 is feasible.... with itb easy and 200 is safe...

since when did building anything performance wise, made something last long...

[racepar1]

By then it's not much of a KA anymore.. so why do it, unless you're a crazy KA fanboi. Even with that amount of work you can have a different engine that will perform better, and far more reliably, for a cheaper cost. But whatever, do what you will. :)

Lol and you guys fail for the negative repping. I'm not entitled to express my opinions? At least I don't throw around a slew of swear words like a few of you scholars.

How is it any less of a KA? It is no longer a KA because it is badass or something? How much do SR fanboys spend for 250bhp (which translates to 200 or LESS hp at the wheels)? What makes a well done 200 or so hp KA unreliable and how do you know it is any cheaper with another motor? You are entitled to express your opinions, but WE are entitled to neg rep you and tell you that we think you are an idiot if that is OUR opinion. ESPECIALLY if you can provide no actual factual argument or numbers to back yourself up.

[PoorMans180SX]

I think you guys are getting a little crazy in this thread.

I'm thinking 200whp is possible, but much beyond that is speculation for a street build. In order to make more power, you're not going to want to stroke it, because that will kill the revs, and you'll need those, especially with the big cams they make for the KA. You'll have to get custom cams from Crower or somebody if you want to make big NA power with the the ultra-low rpm 2.6liter KA.

In fact, you'll probably want to move the wrist pin farther up in the piston, and use longer rods for a better rod ratio. Ring lands don't have to be as thick in an NA engine as in turbo engines.

Obviously up the compression ratio to 11:1 or so. Maybe a little higher if you plan to run E85. But hey, you'll need custom pistons if you want to move the wrist pin anyway.

You'll want to bore it out a little, obviously. Just don't go too far, or the combustion chamber will need a serious working over.

Streamline the ports, get bigger valves, and most likely get a custom intake manifold, or ITB's if that's what you want to do. just make sure you size the runner's length and width right. Do some research on that.

I would then coat the combustion chambers, piston crowns, and exhaust ports with SwainTechs TBC. Yes, it's proven to make more power, because it keeps more heat in the combustion chamber, instead of transferring to your head. Your engine will also run cooler as a result.

Get a metal head gasket. It's just common sense.

Then you're going to want (at least) a DC sports racing header. If you're big into the NA, then getting a custom one will probably yield better gains, especially if you have ITB's, different cams, and bigger ports. Cams dictate a lot of header design. I would ceramic coat that just because it keeps the engine bay a little cooler, which is important, especially if you're running ITB's with no air ducting.

Then, a full 3 inch exhaust would be a good choice, especially since you should be flowing a lot more air than a stock KA, and even stock KA's love 3 inch exhausts. If you want to be nice to the environment, you could run a 3 inch catalytic converter as well.

I think that would probably net you around 225+whp. You have to remember the DOHC KA only makes about 130ish whp stock. Also, these are the same things you would do to any engine if you were building it to make more power. It's really not that hard. There is no magic to making the KA make more power.

Or you could put all that money and a little more into an RWD SR20DE, swap a VE head on it, and make 250whp. I'm just saying.

I also like how this thread started with someone asking about gearing and header flanges. :eek3d:

[racepar1]

I think you guys are getting a little crazy in this thread.

I'm thinking 200whp is possible, but much beyond that is speculation for a street build. In order to make more power, you're not going to want to stroke it, because that will kill the revs, and you'll need those, especially with the big cams they make for the KA. You'll have to get custom cams from Crower or somebody if you want to make big NA power with the the ultra-low rpm 2.6liter KA.

In fact, you'll probably want to move the wrist pin farther up in the piston, and use longer rods for a better rod ratio. Ring lands don't have to be as thick in an NA engine as in turbo engines.

The thing about the BC 2.65 litre stroker crank is that it is balanced. There should be no problem with 7,000 rpm with that crank and that is plenty of RPM. Since crower makes the stroker kit I am sure they have off the shelf cams for that application as well. Big power is not the most important thing if you are building a N/A ka because the turbo motors will always have an advantage over you there. You wanna concentrate on what the turbos DON'T have, and that is torque and engine response. A stroker kit will significantly increase torque and response and that is where a N/A motor shines. If you bore the shit out of it as well and re-do the combustion chambers a bit that will help the rod ratio and square the motor up a bit more. From my experience with longrods on the 4AG's it really doesn't make much of a difference and can be a pain in the ass.

Obviously up the compression ratio to 11:1 or so. Maybe a little higher if you plan to run E85. But hey, you'll need custom pistons if you want to move the wrist pin anyway.

You'll want to bore it out a little, obviously. Just don't go too far, or the combustion chamber will need a serious working over.

Streamline the ports, get bigger valves, and most likely get a custom intake manifold, or ITB's if that's what you want to do. just make sure you size the runner's length and width right. Do some research on that.

I would then coat the combustion chambers, piston crowns, and exhaust ports with SwainTechs TBC. Yes, it's proven to make more power, because it keeps more heat in the combustion chamber, instead of transferring to your head. Your engine will also run cooler as a result.

Get a metal head gasket. It's just common sense.

Then you're going to want (at least) a DC sports racing header. If you're big into the NA, then getting a custom one will probably yield better gains, especially if you have ITB's, different cams, and bigger ports. Cams dictate a lot of header design. I would ceramic coat that just because it keeps the engine bay a little cooler, which is important, especially if you're running ITB's with no air ducting.

Then, a full 3 inch exhaust would be a good choice, especially since you should be flowing a lot more air than a stock KA, and even stock KA's love 3 inch exhausts. If you want to be nice to the environment, you could run a 3 inch catalytic converter as well.

I think that would probably net you around 225+whp. You have to remember the DOHC KA only makes about 130ish whp stock. Also, these are the same things you would do to any engine if you were building it to make more power. It's really not that hard. There is no magic to making the KA make more power.

This info and estimated HP is pretty damn correct, +1 for you.

I also like how this thread started with someone asking about gearing and header flanges. :eek3d:

Ya it has TOTALLY gotten out of hand and off topic in the last couple pages.

[KasperSlide]

for the cost of making an NA KA 200hp. you could most likly do a vq35 swap and be happy

[Matej]

Blah I don't care for motor swaps and wrenching on cars, I like my KA because it's all plug & play, all I want is to make it just a little more fun.

[g6civcx]

Ya it has TOTALLY gotten out of hand and off topic in the last couple pages.

I don't think the original question was ever answered.

[timster]

How is it any less of a KA? It is no longer a KA because it is badass or something? How much do SR fanboys spend for 250bhp (which translates to 200 or LESS hp at the wheels)? What makes a well done 200 or so hp KA unreliable and how do you know it is any cheaper with another motor? You are entitled to express your opinions, but WE are entitled to neg rep you and tell you that we think you are an idiot if that is OUR opinion. ESPECIALLY if you can provide no actual factual argument or numbers to back yourself up.

One question. How many 200+ hp N/A KAs have you seen that are reliable and streetable?

[Mr. Jesse]

One question. How many 200+ hp N/A KAs have you seen that are reliable and streetable?

I'm curious too. Does anyone have a built n/a ka? Is it everything everyone says it is, or supposes it will be like? I've been thinking of doing n/a myself.

[racepar1]

I don't think the original question was ever answered.

Some of the original questions were answered (gear ratio, exhaust flange, realistic power potential, and an idea of the cost) but not all of the original questions.

One question. How many 200+ hp N/A KAs have you seen that are reliable and streetable?

I have heard of several here on zilvia, but have seen none in person so I cannot comment on the streetability of the motors. Reliability is not a problem with the KA's. KA's are known to have bulletproof bottom ends and valvetrains (other than the upper timing chain guide breaking). Also reliability really depends on the skill and attention to detail of the person building the motor. The thing is, if you are going to get seriously into a N/A build you already have enother daily driver, or you are insane (take your pick). So streetability is not that much of an issue. Also a well tuned well built KA will have a pretty wide powerband and lots of low to mid range power and torque, which are the primary things that make race motors almost undriveable on the street, all top end and no bottom end. The REAL concern is can it pass smog? I'm sure you can get one to pass, but it will take some tuning wizardry for sure. Everyone is sooo swap happy that barely anybody actually builds a good KA, but they ARE out there. Just talk to bigvinnie, he is a KA guy and has built more than one N/A ka.

[S14SwimShark105]

You wanna concentrate on what the turbos DON'T have, and that is torque and engine response. A stroker kit will significantly increase torque and response and that is where a N/A motor shines.


Wait, Turbo motors don't have torque or response? hahaha last time I checked, turboed cars have some pretty good torque numbers and there are many variables to the response on a turboed car. Have you forgotten the Mines Skyline GTR? Watch that video and tell me turboo cars don't have any response.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=42KwIMakoaE&feature=related

[g6civcx]

Some of the original questions were answered (gear ratio, exhaust flange, realistic power potential, and an idea of the cost) but not all of the original questions

Is there anything left to be said about gear ratio? It depends on your torque curve and the specific course.

Watch that video and tell me turboo cars don't have any response

I would venture to guess that the amount of tuning that went into that car is beyond 99% of what Zilvians are capable of. I would not consider those results to be typical.

Valid point nonetheless though.

[water]

Big vinnie is an idiot much like the rest of the KA fan bois around here. Nobody besides greaser has built (proven) a 200+ whp KA. And that was on race gas.

[water]

EDIT: You are a fucking douche for neg repping me for my dyno numbers from like 3 years ago! WTF is wrong with you? Post up your dyno numbers bitch!

You're just so ridiculous that I couldn't resist. Everything you say is speculation and/or rumor. And per your request...
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4590/14psifs9.jpg
s13sr blacktop
pb manifold
GT3071r
blah blah
14ish psi

That was a dyno during the tuning process hence the early cutoff. TQ stayed flat to 8k and made more peak hp than that. oooh yeah, check out that tq curve. I have more at 17psi and another at 21psi...didn't think they were necessary. Now show me yours mr. happy. :keke:

[water]

Why do you think it is so difficult to make 200 hp with a KA? Do a mild build on the bottom end, get it balanced and blueprinted, spend the REAL money on the head/intake manifold, get a good ECU and get it tuned well, and just the normal bolt ons from there (intake, exhaust, headers, etc...), and there is your 200hp. It's not that complicated, you just have to pick the right cams and get a good tune. Most people who build KA's for 240's are doing budget builds, not full builds.

I have seen multiple built KA's 20whp shy of your 200whp. What is holding them back? Why has Greaser been the only one to surpass it?

Oh wait you answered..
That is why you do not see very many 200+ hp KA's. Not because it is really complicated or terribly difficult, but because people like YOU do not think that it is worth it.

Its my fault? Shit, I'm sorry KA community.

If you don't like it and would rather spend your money on a golden turd SR then go ahead and do it.

I did. :)

Just shut the fuck up about things that you don't really know about.

I have personally crated and shipped 3 different KA's to Robello for an ITA/ITS 240sx team I was part of years ago. That was just the start. I'm not even bench racing here, unlike you. I'm just trying to be practical.


If you really think that a GT3 spec KA is the ultimate KA and it can't get better than that you are an idiot. They are restricted to only the singlecam (which doesn't flow as good as the DE), they are restricted on the throttlebody bore size that they run, and they are restricted to stockish bore and stock stroke. Without those restrictions I am willing to bet that you could push 400hp out of a N/A ka with a huge budget.

I am 100% sure a better build could be done. You just seem to have trouble recognizing the difference between a street engine and a race engine. Race engine life spans are measured in hours for a reason. And run race gas for a reason. Boy you're an angry one.

[timster]

Big vinnie is an idiot much like the rest of the KA fan bois around here. Nobody besides greaser has built (proven) a 200+ whp KA. And that was on race gas.

Which is surprising, because it's apparently easier than hell to do. :)



.. Sarcasm again.

[water]

You wanna concentrate on what the turbos DON'T have, and that is torque and engine response.

Wait so then where does all that extra hp (when turbocharging) come from? Because I always though hp=tq*rpm/5252

And you can have excellent response in a boosted application. Lets not get carried away with BS here.

[racepar1]

Wait, Turbo motors don't have torque or response? hahaha last time I checked, turboed cars have some pretty good torque numbers and there are many variables to the response on a turboed car. Have you forgotten the Mines Skyline GTR? Watch that video and tell me turboo cars don't have any response.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=42KwIMakoaE&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=42KwIMakoaE&feature=related)

As previously stated those results are not typical. Typically a well done N/A motor is more responsive than a turbo motor because a turbo motor has to wait for boost. I never said that turbo cars are completely unresponsive pigs, but the turbo cars that I have driven definitely lacked responsiveness to some extent (FD RX7, z-32, WRX).

You're just so ridiculous that I couldn't resist. Everything you say is speculation and/or rumor. And per your request...

s13sr blacktop
pb manifold
GT3071r
blah blah
14ish psi

That was a dyno during the tuning process hence the early cutoff. TQ stayed flat to 8k and made more peak hp than that. oooh yeah, check out that tq curve. I have more at 17psi and another at 21psi...didn't think they were necessary. Now show me yours mr. happy. :keke:

Ok, cool. Now how much money did you have to spend to get there (including the swap)? When did I ever say that my motor was the shit? NEVER! I have a STOCK ka dude! I guess I'm just not cool because I am MUCH more concerned with how my car handles and stops than I am with a pretty dyno sheet.

I have seen multiple built KA's 20whp shy of your 200whp. What is holding them back? Why has Greaser been the only one to surpass it?

Because none that I have seen were built right. They all had janky motorcycle ITB's (which are too small) and they all had insufficient headwork, and THAT is where ALL the power is. 99.9% of the N/A ka's that I have seen built were budget builds, which means that there were significant shortcuts taken.

I have personally crated and shipped 3 different KA's to Robello for an ITA/ITS 240sx team I was part of years ago. That was just the start. I'm not even bench racing here, unlike you. I'm just trying to be practical.

WOW the UPS workers must be the smartest people in the world then because they ship all kinds of stuff and according to you that means that they are experts in whatever they shipped. Get fucking real man! I spent my teenage years in the garage with my dad building his formula atlantic motors! Not crating and shipping them, but measuring clearences, pouring over flow charts for different port/valve combinations on our test heads, assembling the damn things, and then going to the engine dyno shop and analyzing what we did. I am being perfectly practical for the knowledge and experience that I have.

I am 100% sure a better build could be done. You just seem to have trouble recognizing the difference between a street engine and a race engine. Race engine life spans are measured in hours for a reason. And run race gas for a reason. Boy you're an angry one.

No I don't! The two big differences between a street and a race motor are the compression ratio and the cams. If you run lower compression and more reasonable cams a race motor will be just as reliable as a street motor, if not more so since they are assembled better. You can have a badass mani/port/valve combination without sacrificing ANY reliability at all! You can even run a badass race cam without sacrificing reliability! It is when you run lots of compression that the engine gets more stressed and reliability and engine life suffer as a result. Why does everyone think that a race motor is sooooo different from a streetable one? It isn't! And if I am the angry one then why the hell did you just make like 5 posts ranting about a bunch of crap? I made one about you!

[Mikey213]

Hee.hee.i'll.show.you.guys.TWO.200whp.KA.next.year .march.=0)
Some.Japapino.friend.and.hopfully.my.s13

[S14SwimShark105]

As previously stated those results are not typical. Typically a well done N/A motor is more responsive than a turbo motor because a turbo motor has to wait for boost. I never said that turbo cars are completely unresponsive pigs, but the turbo cars that I have driven definitely lacked responsiveness to some extent (FD RX7, z-32, WRX).

A properly built motor that is made for turbo charging would be pretty damn responsive if built right and paired with the RIGHT TURBO. When racing you are always above 3k-4k rpm anyways, if you have the right turbo, you will always be at peak boost ALL the time meaning instant power.

The two big differences between a street and a race motor are the compression ratio and the cams. If you run lower compression and more reasonable cams a race motor will be just as reliable as a street motor, if not more so since they are assembled better.

You just contradicted yourself here. You said the 2 big differences between a street motor and a race motor are the compression and the cams. If you lower the compression and run more reasonable cams on a race motor would it be a race motor anymore? haha There are many many differences from a race motor and a street motor. Properly built race motors don't cost an arm and a leg just because the main differences are compression ratio and cams.

Like " Water" was saying, "a race engine life spans are measured in hours for a reason". Take funny cars for example or top fuel cars. They usually rebuild their engines or swap in a new engine after EVERY PASS/RUN. :D

[svensko]

I'm all for NA KA. I currently drive a stock KA and refuse to drop money on a turbo kit when I feel suspension/braking is more important in a track setting. The issue with the NA KA is that there is hardly an aftermarket, and the parts that do exist are EXTREMELY expensive. $3K+ for a stroker kit? You can get them for a 302 for <$500 :ugh:. In order for the NA KA to break the 200 HP mark regularly and reliably, the following things need to happen.

Destroker kit... High revs + huge cams are pretty much our only hope...

Someway to redo the head... If we are going to be revving high, we need a high flowing head. If someone with a few junk heads lying around can find a way to make the head flow better and prove it with a flow bench and then offer their skills for cheap, that would help a ton. Someone on a 22RE (Toyota 8 Valve I4) forum actually welded metal into the ports of the head and then completely reconstructed the head that way.

ITBs built specifically for the KADE... ITBs with the proper diameter instead of botched GSX-R ITB jobs.

Until these are offered and offered at reasonble prices for your typical NA KA builder, the NA KA doesn't have a performance future.

[racepar1]

A properly built motor that is made for turbo charging would be pretty damn responsive if built right and paired with the RIGHT TURBO. When racing you are always above 3k-4k rpm anyways, if you have the right turbo, you will always be at peak boost ALL the time meaning instant power.

I really don't know why we are arguning about this. It is common knowledge that N/A is more responsive. That's not to say that you can't build a responsive turbo motor, mine's proved that you can. But N/A is even more so. The powerbend is generally fatter, which means that as soon as you step on the gas the power is ready. A turbo motor is more of a surge, You get nothing untill you start building boost and then comes a massive surge of power all the way to redline. With a N/A motor the power comes on smoother and sooner in the rpm range, which allows you to shortshift and still be in the powerband. There are many situations where shortshifting is beneficial and with a turbo motor you end up off boost.

You just contradicted yourself here. You said the 2 big differences between a street motor and a race motor are the compression and the cams. If you lower the compression and run more reasonable cams on a race motor would it be a race motor anymore? haha There are many many differences from a race motor and a street motor. Properly built race motors don't cost an arm and a leg just because the main differences are compression ratio and cams.

Like " Water" was saying, "a race engine life spans are measured in hours for a reason". Take funny cars for example or top fuel cars. They usually rebuild their engines or swap in a new engine after EVERY PASS/RUN. :D

Race motors have short lifespans NOT because of how they are built (that gives them a longer life span), but because of the added strain and heat caused by the higher compression/boost that they run (not to mention being driven to the limit pretty much every second of their existence). If you take a race motor and run lower compression and milder cams, you now have an extremely reliable street motor. Race motors are built to tighter specs than a stock motor. The clearences being just right everywhere means a longer life on the street. Race motors cost more because they are built more precisely using better materials, which is what you want to do with a built "street" motor as well. The only other part of a race motor that can affect engine life is the crank. Super-duper light cranks tend to wear bearings faster due to vibration. With a KA that is not an issue though as even the race cranks are not extreme enough to cause that problem. Bringinq up a funny car/top fuel motor is absolutely ridiculous here man. Those motors are stressed to the absolute limits of their designs and that is why they are replaced pretty much every run. I don't see how you think I contradicted myself here.

[Tulok]

I also agree with that, the destroking kit would definitely be the best option, to lower to average piston speed. thus raise the revs significantly. top fuel motors only turn 900 revolutions under load, and they replace the enigne after every 4 if im not mistaken.

[300hp owen]

wow this thread delivers.

:)

[infinitexsound]

stop bitching..... buy this
http://www.courtesyparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Code=14002-00001

buy this
http://www.extrudabody.biz/servlet/the-92/4-dsh-ITB-dsh-KIT-dsh-40-fdsh-45mm-or-Twin-DCOE-fdsh-IDF/Detail

buy this
http://www.mpsracing.com/products/Accel/Thruster.asp

with all of that and a well built engine 200 is easy...

[sldbyuramg]

http://www.amsperformance.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=24_62_304&products_id=304

[BigVinnie]

Because I would swap an S2000 Engine into a S13 before building a KA.

Thats why.

Greasers car is Totally radical. But, he spent money on his KA build. It wasn't cheap. ITB's and a standalone? No, not cheapening out at all.

Its just after that much money, I would rather just put an S2000 engine in.

The only true advantage that the F20c and F22c engines have over the KA is vtec.
Allowing the cams to advance or retard is pretty much what allows these 11.3:1 Compression engines to use 91 octane without getting a crap load of knock and ping, and to satisfy smog emissions.

I'm cheaping out on my build, the grand total will be some where around $2300 in parts, and a crap load of labor.
Right now my engines compression is in the shitter and my engine makes 162 WHP, I don't think its that difficult to make relatively 38 additional whp and stay smog legal using PDM cams, truck main caps, an extruded manifold and 300cc injectors. I mean the reality is I've already made over 30 WHP from stock with a cheap SAFC and bolt ons, it really can't be that difficult.

[BigVinnie]

I also agree with that, the destroking kit would definitely be the best option, to lower to average piston speed.

If you want to slow down upward piston momentum you shave the counter weights of the crank shaft. Destroked works the same way, a destroked crank shaft weighs less than a stroked crank shaft.
If you notice boxter style engines don't even use crank shaft weights!!!!

[svensko]

http://www.amsperformance.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=24_62_304&products_id=304

I don't think 8.8:1 compression is going to go over well for your all motor KA24E. :keke:

[infinitexsound]

hence why knife edging cranks can make u rev pretty high eh.... vinnie those were the days....

[BigVinnie]

Big vinnie is an idiot much like the rest of the KA fan bois around here. Nobody besides greaser has built (proven) a 200+ whp KA. And that was on race gas.

Fact is your ghey...

I'm also going to prove you wrong and still pass smog unlike greasers build. Even if my engine makes 190 or 198 wheel hp I'll still be happier than what greaser accomplished because he is no where near being smogable.

Do you even think for a second that professionals that build engines all day, every day have time to come to a forum? Do you think they want to give away there carbon copies on 200WHP NA KA's...NO, because then they wouldn't be making money giving you information for free.

[BigVinnie]

hence why knife edging cranks can make u rev pretty high eh.... vinnie those were the days....

Yes, and half the clowns in this thread are ghey.....

[svensko]

With the attitudes in this thread, I have no doubt that the KA will continue to be the red-headed step-child. :duh:

[murda-c]

this thread has convinced me that since i can't do an sr20 with my obd2 car, i'm gonna swap in a vq35, lol

[sldbyuramg]

i know i didnt mean to post that one... oh well...i suck
I don't think 8.8:1 compression is going to go over well for your all motor KA24E. :keke:

[KA240SX808]

Wow this thread went down hill

[infinitexsound]

some of the reasons why ppl dont bother posting about a 200hp engine is because theres no need to boast... unlike some kids... who wish and never do...or never research..or never read any books...or never worked in a trade to accomplish some of the mediocre goals they have in mind.... instead this is what defines it all as the years pass through
http://www.global-b2b-network.com/direct/dbimage/50239918/Seamless_Steel_Pipe.jpg

[infinitexsound]

*dp-----------------------------------------

[timster]

--


That there will always be different supplies for different applications? :)

[timster]

Edit: I fail.

[water]

Fact is your ghey...

I'm also going to prove you wrong and still pass smog unlike greasers build. Even if my engine makes 190 or 198 wheel hp I'll still be happier than what greaser accomplished because he is no where near being smogable.

Do you even think for a second that professionals that build engines all day, every day have time to come to a forum? Do you think they want to give away there carbon copies on 200WHP NA KA's...NO, because then they wouldn't be making money giving you information for free.

I hope you do. It really doesn't disprove my point which was that its obviously not as easy as people think. And for less money I could still do be better with another engine. So have fun. I am. :>

[SILVIA_KIDs14.5]

on word tophat they do all motor builds on the ka all the time check them out and i would take a strong look at the stroke and bore from brian crowler

[cronux]

am i not correct in assuming that boxter style engines dont need crank weights bcause of their flat cylinder design, meaning that the pistons opposite each other balance each other out?


so what good would putting a lighter crank in a ka24de? it would just throw off the balance even more. destroking it is one thing, lowering the piston speed. but to lighten it would unbalance the engine even more.

[BigVinnie]

am i not correct in assuming that boxter style engines dont need crank weights bcause of their flat cylinder design, meaning that the pistons opposite each other balance each other out?


so what good would putting a lighter crank in a ka24de? it would just throw off the balance even more. destroking it is one thing, lowering the piston speed. but to lighten it would unbalance the engine even more.

Your correct boxter style engines use opposing pistons to create the momentum for the crank shaft.
Brian crower has the right idea for his crank shaft using chromoly which is a lighter steel composite, and fully counter weighted.
AMS is using chromoly as well to lighten there crank shaft assembly.
Now in the case of the KA half weighted crank shaft who is to say that you would throw it out of balance? When you lighten a crank shaft you also balance it. Your only dealing with the properties of inertia, as long as the weights weigh more than the rods and pistons I don't see a problem. Especially when you look at boxter style engines, these engines just use the opposing pistons which are the exact same weight to propel the crank shaft.
Your only dealing with the properties of MOI (moment Of Inertia), a 4 banger only needs enough inerta to propel 2 of the 4 pistons up ward, while 2 pistons one making the power stroke are going down ward.

[300hp owen]

The only true advantage that the F20c and F22c engines have over the KA is vtec.
WRONG ! and somewhat narrow minded too. no offense, just bugs me when people break down conversations way too simply and leave out important info in a good discussion.

what about the beautifully light and precise feeling f20c transmission!

so many people talk motor swap for motor swap but fail to even include some of the best aspects of certain swaps, the tranny! LS1 is great becuase the 6speed T56 is bulletproof and has great close ratios. the f20c is great because the 6speed is super slick and amazingly precise and quick shifting, its a wonderful piece of automotive machinery.

and now back to your regularly scheduled N/A KA thread, lol

[300hp owen]

A well done ls1 swap will have about 400hp, a well built KA (gt3 spec or so) will have about 300hp, YOU are wrong.wtf this still bothers me.
a well done LS1 swap is just that, a swap, were not talking about modifying an LS1, especially when considering a budget build and last I check the stock LS1 puts down about 300hp. I know in the process of swapping one into a 240sx you can run a more free flowing exhaust, special headers and a nice CAI but without other mods like t/b porting and a bigger intake, etc you are not going to see 400hp. so a basic LS1 swap will still be pushing about 300hp.

yeah yeah yeah you can start with an LS2 or LS6 and you can buildup an LS1 with mods galore to see whatever hp level you want but for this discussion it was just a noteworthy idea to think about a very simple, very basic, LS1 swap for a better financial option to a 300hp n/a KA motor setup.

[BigVinnie]

I hope you do. It really doesn't disprove my point which was that its obviously not as easy as people think. And for less money I could still do be better with another engine. So have fun. I am. :>

Dude it's all relative a F20c and F22c only make roughly 205WHP on 91octane on a cold day. Now from what I understand the F20 and 22c engines don't have super high lift after market cams.. The potential for increasing power is maxed out on the damn thing. Also take into effect how prone that engine is to making less power on a hot day, the compression is 11.3:1!!! I would say that engine probably makes well under 200WHP on 91 Octane on a well suited 90 degree day.
Now for me, I will tell you off the top I am one in a few that are smog legit at 162WHP, this means I still use my egr assembly. The most I've seen from any JWT tune fully bolt on KA with removal of egr assembly is 159whp. I'm already surpassing most KA bolt on set ups with 95Octane. Hell I even surpass PDM racings set up that they advertise for there cam, header, and pulley at 163whp, and a shorter power band? I'm using the stock cams, and a scv manifold still!!!
Now my whole plan from the beginning was to have a street legal setup, thats all I brag about. I am a few HP shy of what a stock boosted sr20det makes.
The last thing you could call me was an idiot and a fan boi. Besides I don't need a black top sr to to compensate for cock size, fact is I'm smogable, your not...

[water]

Huh? I'm not bragging. Someone asked for my dyno so i provided. And who cares what a stock sr makes? Or emissions. Exhaust, fmic, and boost controller and i'm well beyond any pipe dream 200whp KA. Not to mention with plenty of room for cheap improvements. FWIW I'm running an s15 sr these days, totally stock w/ 550cc's and I'm making 300whp with really nice bottom end tq. And i have to reiterate, I never came in here comparing. It took one retard to start that. I simply said its not as easy as ppl were making it out to be (making a 200whp NA). Period, end of story. Sorry I called you an idiot - i should have said "if he thinks anything like you, he's an idiot." Mind you this in reference to the guy that thinks boosted engines make no tq. Good luck with your build.

[racepar1]

I hope you do. It really doesn't disprove my point which was that its obviously not as easy as people think. And for less money I could still do be better with another engine. So have fun. I am. :>

I am willing to bet that you spent enough on your SR to easily build a 200hp or so KA. Easy is a relative term. There is nothing easier than slapping a bigger turbo on to make more power (except nitrous), there is more involved than JUST the turbo but not much. If YOU think that you can do better then good for you, our definitions of better are different. To you better means more power. To me better means a very responsive engine built N/A, and be at least somewhat original. I don't care if it is easier with other engines, easier isn't my point nor is total HP. I don't need a bajillion horsepower to do what I want, I DO need a more responsive moderately powerful engine. Horsepower doesn't make faster lap times, the driver and the suspension do that.

wtf this still bothers me.
a well done LS1 swap is just that, a swap, were not talking about modifying an LS1, especially when considering a budget build and last I check the stock LS1 puts down about 300hp. I know in the process of swapping one into a 240sx you can run a more free flowing exhaust, special headers and a nice CAI but without other mods like t/b porting and a bigger intake, etc you are not going to see 400hp. so a basic LS1 swap will still be pushing about 300hp.

yeah yeah yeah you can start with an LS2 or LS6 and you can buildup an LS1 with mods galore to see whatever hp level you want but for this discussion it was just a noteworthy idea to think about a very simple, very basic, LS1 swap for a better financial option to a 300hp n/a KA motor setup.

Dude I posted that like 2 days ago, this conversation is soooo over. MY ls1 swap would be more complicated than building a KA. I would make my own mount kit so that I can put the motor where it should be, which will take like eleventy billion hours.

[Mikey213]

Hahahah im not sure if a bunch of the new KA kids really know their KA...
Basically Just having a frankenstien KADE with a knifed crankshaft , and a nice set of HKS valvesprings basically HKS, JUN valvtrain for a CA18 head...the rest you just play around with cams and tuning and you're good! It sucks cuz nobody in the US fiddles with the KA like this, if anything mr. yashio is the one really building an NA/KA which is actually an embarrasment for us in the US. A few people like vinnie know what's up it's just that we don't have a fluffy ass wallet like Yasio

[300hp owen]

BigVinnie, youre making a lot of sense, good stuff.

MY ls1 swap would be more complicated than building a KA. hey thats not my fault, or even what I am talking about for the sake of the thread. at least compare apples to apples and not your dreamy dream setup from the far away future. even saing that, theres no reason someone couldnt do all of the same stuff to maximize a N/A KA24E buildup, like dry sump oiling, altered subframe to reduce cg, etc!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would make my own mount kit so that I can put the motor where it should be, which will take like eleventy billion hours.and that is just one more reason your LS1 swap isnt done yet. if you did a simple swap you would be blown away by the performance and not be held up with eleventy billion things to modify and go wrong and tune and dial in. trust me, out of the 5 local LS1FCs, 2 of us went simple while the other guys spent thousands of dollars on extra mods and special fuel setups and tuning, blah blah blah, they all had so much downtime because of mods and issues from such a complicated buildup, I just enjoy driving and how much faster does this car need to be, its already stupidfast.

[water]

I am willing to bet that you spent enough on your SR to easily build a 200hp or so KA. Easy is a relative term. There is nothing easier than slapping a bigger turbo on to make more power (except nitrous), there is more involved than JUST the turbo but not much. If YOU think that you can do better then good for you, our definitions of better are different. To you better means more power. To me better means a very responsive engine built N/A, and be at least somewhat original. I don't care if it is easier with other engines, easier isn't my point nor is total HP. I don't need a bajillion horsepower to do what I want, I DO need a more responsive moderately powerful engine. Horsepower doesn't make faster lap times, the driver and the suspension do that.


Are you mental? If all I cared about was peak hp, my setup would not have been what it was, nor would I have been pointing attention to my powerband, and I would have just posted up the 20+psi graphs (which were just for fun). I could have gotten a GT30r just as easily and sacrificed some spool and response for peak hp. Or a larger turbine a/r. Anyone into road racing should be able to appreciate the powerband I had - which is exactly what I had intended when I designed that setup. Notice how after reaching peak tq it doesn't drop at all before redlining (with any bit of significance)? My car was a rock solid track car, very responsive, and a BLAST to drive.

[steve shadows]

Do it on a dyno dynamics.

I'd be really really curious to see how much actual ROAD power under LOAD any of these NA setups short of a crate motor from nismo make.

[INeedNewTires]

well like i said a mid 13 second time will be fun for me. i just want a rwd car to drive and to look nice. My neon is the drag/corner car. on street tires it will hit some 12's and look bone stock... all the way down to the exhuast. the 240 is about the style and i wouldn't mind playing around with drifting. nothing serious cause nothing like that is around wichita, ks.

My setup for now will hopefully be like this:
4.6 gears if i can find them
1.5 or 2 way diff
cam
intake
header back exhaust and a computer tune.

If i feel like that wont cut it i will go with a factory rb20 swap and be good.



Although this thread has alot of very useful information, it has gone to shit..... and to top it all off we're going back and forth with some of the best people on this forum for a dude who wants to dump all his money into his fucking NEON and make it "turbo and corner" and wants his 240 for the "looks"..... WTF guys this thread should have died pages ago.....

[S14SwimShark105]

.Horsepower doesn't make faster lap times, the driver and the suspension do that.

I think you are wrong.Think about what you are saying here. Of course the driver and suspension setup make the car go faster around a track, but to say horsepower doesn't make faster lap times is a complete LIE and a complete ignorant thing to say.

I also drive a stock KA with just intake headers and exhaust and mostly all of the suspension parts so don't think I'm power hungry. And yes I think more horsepower will do me a lot of good and make my lap times go a lot quicker from where I am at now.

This is an awesome thread, I like reading about what people have to say about N/A KA's or LS1 swaps or whatevers. Very interesting and at times very funny haha.

[silpena]

ok i'm going to break the tension here can we all agree on this..... we all like big titties! now back on with the discussion on the ka.

[S14SwimShark105]

well.... actually... YES lol

[racepar1]

Do it on a dyno dynamics.

I'd be really really curious to see how much actual ROAD power under LOAD any of these NA setups short of a crate motor from nismo make.

I'll hit you up for tuning when I finally get to doing my motor and we shall see (probably next year sometime)!

I'm so sick of arguing about what the better motor is on this thread! That's not the point here guys! The point is how to make more power from the KA! All the turbo, LS1, VQ, etc.... guys posting here should go somewhere else! It doesn't matter what anybody does with a KA none of you will ever care. Those of us that chose to build a KA are not doing it to have the sweetest motor in the world, we are doing it because that is what we want. So what if it costs more money or requires more actual knowledge and skill to do it? The whole point is the knowledge and skill! Sure I could throw an SR in, buy all the bolt on shit, with the right turbo, get it tuned, and have plenty of power. But where's the fun and challenge in that? It is boring and played out. The LS1 or VQ35 are the only engines that I would consider swapping into my car and I would keep both of them N/A and carb approved if at all possible. Unfortuanetly though I have yet to see a well done mount kit for either of those motors, which means making my own. Who cares about a little downtime? I just want it done 100% right the first time and I probably won't even be swapping a motor into my current chasis. I will acquire another s-13 (coupe this time) and build it from the ground-up 100% perfect the first time. I am officially now done with this thread! Nothing I say matters because none of you care and most can't even understand.

[infinitexsound]

some do others shoot the shit.. start your own thread and ask the mods to give u management over it.. ill post there.... kudos... i could throw up some specs and cam profiles to guide u along.. 200hp is cake..

[downshift_sideways]

I'll hit you up for tuning when I finally get to doing my motor and we shall see (probably next year sometime)!

I'm so sick of arguing about what the better motor is on this thread! That's not the point here guys! The point is how to make more power from the KA! All the turbo, LS1, VQ, etc.... guys posting here should go somewhere else! It doesn't matter what anybody does with a KA none of you will ever care. Those of us that chose to build a KA are not doing it to have the sweetest motor in the world, we are doing it because that is what we want. So what if it costs more money or requires more actual knowledge and skill to do it? The whole point is the knowledge and skill! Sure I could throw an SR in, buy all the bolt on shit, with the right turbo, get it tuned, and have plenty of power. But where's the fun and challenge in that? It is boring and played out. The LS1 or VQ35 are the only engines that I would consider swapping into my car and I would keep both of them N/A and carb approved if at all possible. Unfortuanetly though I have yet to see a well done mount kit for either of those motors, which means making my own. Who cares about a little downtime? I just want it done 100% right the first time and I probably won't even be swapping a motor into my current chasis. I will acquire another s-13 (coupe this time) and build it from the ground-up 100% perfect the first time. I am officially now done with this thread! Nothing I say matters because none of you care and most can't even understand.

Agreed...


<3

[Tulok]

the thread is done, can't wait race par!

[300hp owen]

The LS1 or VQ35 are the only engines that I would consider swapping into my car and I would keep both of them N/A and carb approved if at all possible. Unfortuanetly though I have yet to see a well done mount kit for either of those motors, which means making my own. Who cares about a little downtime? I just want it done 100% right the first time and I probably won't even be swapping a motor into my current chasis. I will acquire another s-13 (coupe this time) and build it from the ground-up 100% perfect the first time. I am officially now done with this thread! Nothing I say matters because none of you care and most can't even understand.this thread wasnt about you, wasnt about your car or your swap plans. it was about sharing info though and you just take this all too personally.

lol @ your assessment of mount kits for the LS1 and VQ35 being so bad that you'd need to do some sort of complete redesign that might take you some unbelievably long time... rofl
:duh:

[The ROMAN]

It'd be interesting to see a shootout between the N/A KAs and an N/A SR. Tomei sells a 250hp N/A SR but it's like 13:1 compression and needs race gas IIRC.

[BigVinnie]

lol @ your assessment of mount kits for the LS1 and VQ35 being so bad that you'd need to do some sort of complete redesign that might take you some unbelievably long time... rofl
:duh:


I actually like the smog legal VQ35de swaps. I honestly wouldn't mind spending the $7000 to drop one in my schassis. More torque than a turbo sr or KA, and it's smog legal. Why more people aren't doing this swap beats the hell out of me.
I would rather do the VQ over LS-1 swap because of the gas mileage the VQ's make, you can't beat 26MPG on average, for 260WHP.

[300hp owen]

but uhhhhhh, isnt that the same gas mileage as LS1s? I know my LS1FC was right around 24-28mpg combined driving if I drove it like a normal person and not some rev happy tire shredding maniac (which is easily induced by the swap in the first place, lol). and I had 4.10 gears in the FC too. the LS1 just cruises at such a low rpm on the highway its great, 6th is super tall.
I hear ya,
VQ35de @ 260whp is nice @ $7000.
but,
LS1 @ 300whp is nicer @ $8000. w/ its MEGA TORRRRRQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

[irax]

no

VQ35DE swap is going to run you around $5k and will get anywhere between 240whp to 285whp and will get 35-28 mpg while doing it.

even a VQ35HR from an '07 will run you bewteen 2-3k (just the motorset itself) and all it needs is a tuned ecu and an exhaust and it will produce 300whp

[BigVinnie]

no

VQ35DE swap is going to run you around $5k and will get anywhere between 240whp to 285whp and will get 35-28 mpg while doing it.

even a VQ35HR from an '07 will run you bewteen 2-3k (just the motorset itself) and all it needs is a tuned ecu and an exhaust and it will produce 300whp


For what a transverse murano, altima, or Maxima engine? Those engines dont even use the same cams.

[BigVinnie]

but uhhhhhh, isnt that the same gas mileage as LS1s? I know my LS1FC was right around 24-28mpg combined driving if I drove it like a normal person and not some rev happy tire shredding maniac (which is easily induced by the swap in the first place, lol). and I had 4.10 gears in the FC too. the LS1 just cruises at such a low rpm on the highway its great, 6th is super tall.
I hear ya,
VQ35de @ 260whp is nice @ $7000.
but,
LS1 @ 300whp is nicer @ $8000. w/ its MEGA TORRRRRQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)


I could be understating the VQ gasmileage. I know in the new 350z's they make relatively 24~26MPG. Now my murano that uses CVT transmission all wheel drive gets 27~30MPG. You should take into consideration that both of these chassis's are over 600~1000LB.s heavier than an s-chassis. I wouldn't be surprised if a VQ dropped into an s-chassis could get relatively 30MPG. Remember load has alot to do with gas mileage. For me to say that it could make 30MPG in an S-chassis is mearly just assumption, and no one has cared to proven what it's true gasmileage in the s-chassis really is.
From my friends z06 he is getting relatively 22~24MPG freeway.

[CKAMC]

some local kid was trying to convince me that a qr25 swap would work and be ubber cheap

idk

motor has a mixed history just like the vq

[irax]

For what a transverse murano, altima, or Maxima engine? Those engines dont even use the same cams.

they don't thats why there is all sorts of power ranges and gas milage ranges.
you can swap out cams from any engine and matched with the right ecu it will make more power, but if your going that far why not just build a vq from the ground up.

My maxima engine produces 265~ wheel hp with just headers and 350z intake.
When my swap is done, if it makes 250whp i will be very happy because a tuned ecu is only $500 that increases hp and mpg and all the little things that I would add on as well like a plenum spacer, intake, and exhaust 275whp doesn't seem like a hurtle at all. Again considering its going through more drive train than fwd. But it will limit you to only intake cam variable lift but if you want to go all out power your better off starting off with a RWD block that has the intake and exhaust phasers anyways.

but for the most part, fwd blocks with ~10k-40k are found as cheap as KA with ~100k miles. The parts needed to convert for use with RWD are easy to find as well and can often be found for cheap since 350z guys buy upgrades and practically throw stock parts away.

If any mod could be as so kind as to cut this VQ talk out of this thread and into its own, I would appreciate it.

[BigVinnie]

but for the most part, fwd blocks with ~10k-40k are found as cheap as KA with ~100k miles. The parts needed to convert for use with RWD are easy to find as well and can often be found for cheap since 350z guys buy upgrades and practically throw stock parts away.


I've actually seen rebuilt 2003 and 2004 350z VQ's going for cheap, I guess there were oil burning issues in those models so there are an abundance of rebuilt for pretty good prices too.

[irax]

I've actually seen rebuilt 2003 and 2004 350z VQ's going for cheap, I guess there were oil burning issues in those models so there are an abundance of rebuilt for pretty good prices too.

the REV-UP VQ's were the ones with oil consumption problems from mid 03 to late 05 to my understanding.

[cdlong]

except the vq35hr wasn't produced until '07.

[KA240SX808]

^Might as well go for the VQ37

[infinitexsound]

what was the oil burning issues in the pre VQ, faulty valve stem seals? that seems like an easy fix? the heads didn't change physically did it, through out the years?

[irax]

except the vq35hr wasn't produced until '07.

REV-UP Vq's were VQ35DE not HR, so as far as we all know the HR is a perfect engine without any faults.

what was the oil burning issues in the pre VQ, faulty valve stem seals? that seems like an easy fix? the heads didn't change physically did it, through out the years?

The problem with the REV-UPs was burning oil. But the problem is that the type of owner that would get a rev-up model was more likely to rev the snot out of it off the lot and not do actual brakein period. But there are some rev-ups that reportedly were babied and still had the oil consumption problem. I don't think the heads have changed over the years, the different models might have slightly different specs on the head like the 350z's heads would breath more vs maxima and altima.

[infinitexsound]

wont know till someone flow benches all the heads to really know, which casting is better..... but still each casting from any particular engine isnt always going to be the same...

if the heads didnt physically change... shit... then thats good what signifies a rev up from a reg vq? from my understanding of all the history nissan has done with all their motors... it would probably be cam profiles and the CC chamber...maybe even valvesprings..and size valve.. sometimes the intake and exhaust ports play a role... but thats not hard to deal with since you just need to port the head to what ever size.. that certain head you want to copy.... people have been swapping heads from different model cars for ever.... if it just deals with the head and valve stem seals going out... thats fucken cake...

been searching about the VQ high rev deal... found this on wikipedia

Nissan updated the VQ line for 2007 with the addition of the 3.5 L VQ35HR (for "High Revolution" or "High Response"). It produces 315 PS (311 hp/232 kW) at 6,800 RPM and 36.5 kg·m (358 N·m/264 ft·lbf) at 4,800 RPM, using a compression ratio of 10.6:1. It has NDIS (Nissan Direct Ignition System) and CVTC with hydraulic actuation on the intake cam and electromagnetic on the exhaust cam. Redline is 7,500 RPM. The intake is a high-flow tuned induction system. cams and ... up the CC.. different cam system... sweet..

and was checking out the vq40de nice spec... use the rod and crank.. keep the pistons... would be a nice motor if someone blue printed one..vq40de have hollow cranks what ever that means... since most cranks have oil galleys anyhow...

about the same bore... different stroke...might make alot of power...

[MajorLiquidGaming]

hit up rps13 XD

[shiftdrift]

noob. facepalm. wtf.

[ChemtrailsSR86]

Not sure if it was mentioned but KA's are super easy to convert back to carbies too! I kno, I kno, you either love Carb's or hate them.

[di-devol]

So you bumped a six-month old thread and didn't read it?