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Phlip
04-03-2008, 11:56 AM
I mean come on, 20+ damned years?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/02/AR2008040203952.html?wpisrc=newsletter

Chinese Spy 'Slept' In U.S. for 2 Decades
Espionage Network Said to Be Growing

By Joby Warrick and Carrie Johnson (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/email/joby+warrick+and+carrie+johnson/)
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, April 3, 2008; Page A01


Prosecutors called Chi Mak the "perfect sleeper agent," though he hardly looked the part. For two decades, the bespectacled Chinese-born engineer lived quietly with his wife in a Los Angeles (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Los+Angeles?tid=informline) suburb, buying a house and holding a steady job with a U.S. defense contractor, which rewarded him with promotions and a security clearance. Colleagues remembered him as a hard worker who often took paperwork home at night.

Eventually, Mak's job gave him access to sensitive plans for Navy ships, submarines and weapons. These he secretly copied and sent via courier to China (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/China?tid=informline) -- fulfilling a mission that U.S. officials say he had been planning since the 1970s.

Mak was sentenced last week to 24 1/2 years in prison by a federal judge who described the lengthy term as a warning to China not to "send agents here to steal America's military (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/U.S.+Armed+Forces?tid=informline) secrets." But it may already be too late: According to U.S. intelligence and Justice Department (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/U.S.+Department+of+Justice?tid=informline) officials, the Mak case represents only a small facet of an intelligence-gathering operation that has long been in place and is growing in size and sophistication.

The Chinese government, in an enterprise that one senior official likened to an "intellectual vacuum cleaner," has deployed a diverse network of professional spies, students, scientists and others to systematically collect U.S. know-how, the officials said. Some are trained in modern electronic techniques for snooping on wireless computer transactions. Others, such as Mak, are technical experts who have been in place for years and have blended into their communities.

"Chi Mak acknowledged that he had been placed in the United States more than 20 years earlier, in order to burrow into the defense-industrial establishment to steal secrets," Joel Brenner, the head of counterintelligence for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Office+of+the+Director+of+National+Intelligence?ti d=informline), said in an interview. "It speaks of deep patience," he said, and is part of a pattern.

Other recent prosecutions illustrate the scale of the problem. Mak, whose sentence capped an 18-month criminal probe, was the second U.S. citizen in the past two weeks to stand before a federal judge after being found guilty on espionage-related charges.

On Monday, former Defense Department (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/U.S.+Department+of+Defense?tid=informline) analyst Gregg W. Bergersen pleaded guilty in Alexandria (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Alexandria?tid=informline) to charges that he gave classified information on U.S. weapons sales to a businessman who shared the data with a Chinese official.

In March, the Reston (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Reston?tid=informline) company WaveLab pleaded guilty to violating export laws when it shipped militarily sensitive power amplifiers to China, according to court papers. A lawyer for the company said it neglected to get proper licenses and did not engage in "underhanded" behavior.

Dongfan Chung, a Boeing (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Boeing+Company?tid=informline) engineer arrested in February for allegedly passing classified space shuttle and rocket documents to Chinese officials, was accused in court documents of responding to orders from Beijing (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Beijing?tid=informline) as long ago as 1979 -- making him a second alleged longtime agent.

Yesterday, federal prosecutors in Chicago (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Chicago?tid=informline) indicted a software engineer for allegedly stealing business trade secrets and trying to take more than 1,000 paper and electronic documents from a telecommunications company on a one-way trip to China last year.

The cases are among at least a dozen investigations of Chinese espionage that have yielded criminal charges or guilty pleas in the past year. Since 2000, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/U.S.+Bureau+of+Immigration+and+Customs+Enforcement ?tid=informline) officials have launched more than 540 investigations of illegal technology exports to China.

The FBI (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Federal+Bureau+of+Investigation?tid=informline) recently heightened its counterintelligence operations against Chinese activities in the United States after Director Robert S. Mueller III (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Robert+Mueller?tid=informline) cited "substantial concern" about aggressive attempts to use students, scientists and "front companies" to acquire military secrets.

Recent prosecutions indicate that Chinese agents have infiltrated sensitive military programs pertaining to nuclear missiles, submarine propulsion technology, night-vision capabilities and fighter pilot training -- all of which could help China modernize its programs while developing countermeasures against advanced weapons systems used by the United States and its allies.

"The intelligence services of the People's Republic of China pose a significant threat both to the national security and to the compromise of U.S. critical national assets," said William Carter, an FBI spokesman. "The PRC will remain a significant threat for a long time as they attempt to develop their military capabilities and to develop their economy in order to compete in today's world economy."

While military technology appears to be the top prize, the Chinese effort is also aimed at commercial and industrial technologies, which often are poorly protected, several officials said. "Espionage used to be a problem for the FBI, CIA (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Central+Intelligence+Agency?tid=informline) and military, but now it's a problem for corporations," Brenner said. "It's no longer a cloak-and-dagger thing. It's about computer architecture and the soundness of electronic systems."

Calls placed to the Chinese Embassy (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Chinese+Ministry+of+Foreign+Affairs?tid=informline ) in Washington requesting comment on recent spy cases were not returned. But Chinese officials have repeatedly denied that their country is stealing military technology. "We have reiterated many times that allegations that China stole U.S. military secrets are groundless and made out of ulterior motives," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said at a recent news conference in Beijing, commenting on the Mak case.

But U.S. intelligence and defense officials say China has been able to use technology of U.S. origin in a new generation of advanced naval destroyers and quiet-running, stealthy submarines.

Some of those secrets may have been obtained with the help of Mak, a 67-year-old electrical engineer who became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 1985 along with his wife, Rebecca Chiu Mak. The two settled in Southern California, where Mak eventually accepted a job with Power Paragon, a defense contractor that specialized in advanced naval propulsion technology. In 1996, Mak was given a security clearance at the "secret" level, which gave him access to sensitive engineering details for U.S. ships and submarines.

In 2003, Mak became the subject of an intensive federal investigation that included court-ordered wiretaps, secret property searches and the clandestine installation of a video camera inside his home. Through surveillance, FBI agents discovered that Mak was in the process of copying thousands of pages of technical documents onto computer disks, which he arranged to send to China using his brother and sister-in-law as couriers.

According to court documents, the Maks encrypted the disks to avoid detection and used coded words to arrange a drop-off of the disks to a Chinese intelligence operative. In one phone conversation, the brother, Tai Wang Mak, intimated that he would be traveling with his wife and a third companion he described as his "assistant" -- a reference, prosecutors said, to the disks, hidden in his luggage.

The plan was foiled on Oct. 28, 2005, when agents arrested Tai Wang Mak as he was preparing to board a plane at Los Angeles International Airport (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Los+Angeles+International+Airport?tid=informline). Chi Mak and his wife were arrested at their home the same day.

A key piece of evidence was a to-do list of apparent intelligence targets, written in Chinese script. The note, which had been shredded, was retrieved from Chi Mak's garbage and painstakingly reassembled to reveal what prosecutors said were instructions from Beijing on the kinds of technology Mak should seek to acquire.

Mak, who testified in his defense at his six-week trial, denied he was a spy and said the information he copied was available from nonclassified sources on the Internet. Defense witnesses said that much, if not all, of the documents acquired by Mak were not officially classified, though transmitting them to China was prohibited under U.S. export laws. Mak's attorney, Ronald O. Kaye, said his client was a scapegoat for other U.S. intelligence failures and a "symbol of the government's cold war against the Chinese."

In another recent case, former Northrop Grumman (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Northrop+Grumman+Corporation?tid=informline) scientist Noshir Gowadia, who helped build the B-2 bomber, was indicted last fall for allegedly sharing cruise missile data with the Chinese government during a half-dozen trips to China. He is scheduled to go on trial in October.

A defense lawyer for Gowadia did not return calls, but Gowadia's family in Hawaii (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Hawaii?tid=informline) has told local journalists that the charges stem from a misunderstanding.

Robert Clifton Burns, a Washington lawyer who specializes in export cases, said the Chinese acquisition of sophisticated U.S. technology "is fast coming out from under the radar" as authorities crack down on such shipments to foreign powers. But Burns, who closely tracks prosecutions in the area, said the government sometimes overstates the risks of exporting U.S. items.

"People who violate export laws should be thrown in jail, no question about it," Burns said. But he added that there are also people "who would be better addressed by . . . a civil result where they get a small fine."

Staff researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.

mRclARK1
04-03-2008, 12:02 PM
Lengthy term as a warning??

Call me whatever you want... IMO: Execute him if he sent classified and sensitive documents. That would send a message and warning. Treason by military members is punishable by death, it should be the same for civilians who have the ability to compromise military secrets/technology... the effects are the same as if it was committed by a member of the military.

Phlip
04-03-2008, 12:07 PM
I agree, warning my ass...
Make the "warning" applicable to anyone else who has designs on trying the shit moving forward, and more importantly the ones who are STILL doing the shit undetected. Torture that sumbitch to within an inch of his life at halftime during the superbowl.

ESmorz
04-03-2008, 12:10 PM
"Mak was sentenced last week to 24 1/2 years in prison by a federal judge who described the lengthy term as a warning to China not to "send agents here to steal America's military (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/U.S.+Armed+Forces?tid=informline) secrets."

No, executing him via satellite or right outside the Chinese consulate would have been sending a warning. You think they care if they go to prison?

I'm not saying I'm for the execution deal, but jail time is not a stern warning to a government. If you're going to make a stand at least make it memorable.

mRclARK1
04-03-2008, 12:24 PM
I just think a higher level of trust then the average citizen is given which is betrayed (basically none. haha) is properly punished by a harsher means.

Basically if you're highly trusted... expect the hammer to hit hard if you betray it.

Andrew Bohan
04-03-2008, 12:28 PM
dropping the bomb sounds good right about now.


lemme move to mars first though

98s14inaz
04-03-2008, 12:36 PM
That warning is not significant enough. This guy was patient enough to live here for 20 years, what is another 24.5 years in prison? He'll get out early anyway for good behavior. It was rumored during the Cold War that soviet/communist sleeper agents such as these existed but that rumor was laughed off as "conspiracy theory" and forgotten about. Not all conspiracy theories are bullshit.

kingkilburn
04-03-2008, 12:41 PM
Sounds like a clear cause for a military show of force...

and an execution.

ESmorz
04-03-2008, 12:44 PM
Sounds like a clear cause for a military show of force...

No. They have a very capable Military. Plus, they pretty much own us now so that would be a bad idea.

azndoc
04-03-2008, 12:50 PM
Damn Chinese bastards.

I doubt that he'll actually spend his time there.

I'm sure that this is a way for them to show the Chinese that they mean business. Perhaps the Chinese has some spies from us and they this is like a bargaining tool.

Who knows.

wrapmeup2005
04-03-2008, 12:52 PM
I don't think the Chinese government will care too much be it jail time or execution. The U.S. government doesn't care too much about the guys who go and fight for our freedom (thats a hit on the government, NOT anyone in the armed forces) The guy did his job and thats all they care about. If we are going to execute him and send a stern message, then why not execute the murders that are sitting in jail? That should free up some tax money right? Then we can pay our teachers a little more so this country can have a damn education. But.... they won't, jail time is better.
Fucking Priorities

EDacIouSX
04-03-2008, 12:56 PM
fucking chinese man..... what the fucks wrong with those people i swear why are they looking to start shit with the usa. why do people have to blow themselves up too?

god, people in this world are just retarded...

urmyhero4now
04-03-2008, 12:57 PM
chop his penis off and mail it back to china rolled up in an eggroll

ESmorz
04-03-2008, 12:59 PM
fucking chinese man..... what the fucks wrong with those people i swear why are they looking to start shit with the usa.

Because in a few years they will be able to do whatever they want.

OptionZero
04-03-2008, 02:41 PM
great, we're gonna see internment camps again

kingkilburn
04-03-2008, 03:58 PM
ESmorz

That is part of why we should. We should cut as many economic ties as possible. The fact they are going to spy on us rather than openly ask is on ominous view in to their future intentions.

ESmorz
04-03-2008, 04:04 PM
ESmorz

That is part of why we should. We should cut as many economic ties as possible. The fact they are going to spy on us rather than openly ask is on ominous view in to their future intentions.

We can't cut tie with them economically. We're so embroiled with them it'd be nearly impossible at this point. Flexing nuts with your own depleted and stretched military is probably just not the best course of action.

I really don't think these days China will take shit from anybody. They are a nuclear power, with a huge army, and thriving economy.

kingkilburn
04-03-2008, 04:55 PM
Their economy is thriving off of our dollar(literally and figuratively). If all we did was take our manufacturing else where(read: back home) the world as a whole would be better off.

ESmorz
04-03-2008, 05:22 PM
Their economy is thriving off of our dollar(literally and figuratively). If all we did was take our manufacturing else where(read: back home) the world as a whole would be better off.

True. But, we wont.

Simple as that.

PhilthyS13
04-03-2008, 05:50 PM
Even with all of our secrets, China's military is still 10000000000 years behind ours. They use the Soviet model: 10 of theirs for every one of ours. And they're conscript peasants. They steal our secrets and make copies. Imagine it: they are the Megan Racing of militaries. Literally. Shitty welds and all. I bet they drive technicals, too.

fromxtor
04-03-2008, 06:18 PM
I think china would be the perfect test site for our F-22 capabilities. :D

babowc
04-03-2008, 08:01 PM
Gotta give this some thought though...
Dont you think Americans, as well, have espionage agents in foreign countries?

What do you guys think about that??

ayuaddict
04-03-2008, 08:16 PM
What do you guys think about that??

i think it would make a cool movie.

kingkilburn
04-03-2008, 08:39 PM
Gotta give this some thought though...
Dont you think Americans, as well, have espionage agents in foreign countries?

What do you guys think about that??

I doubt we have spies of this type in any country we openly call "ally".

illvialuver
04-03-2008, 08:43 PM
it just goes to prove that there are no secrets.

Andrew Bohan
04-03-2008, 08:44 PM
i wouldn't be surprised if we had spies in every country on earth

we have naturalized citizens from at least 90% of every country so it wouldn't be hard to have someone blend in.

kingkilburn
04-03-2008, 09:03 PM
/\
That is our catch 22. We have so many from around the world that you don't even notice any more.

thatdrifterguy
04-03-2008, 09:17 PM
i think it would make a cool movie.

speaking of movie. this kinda reminds me of vantage point...how the hell did the "lost" guy get so far!??!

anyway. US probably has agents everywhere just in case. if not for stealing then at least just for spying so we know what everyone has.:fawkd:

drift freaq
04-03-2008, 09:21 PM
I doubt we have spies of this type in any country we openly call "ally".

I don't recall us openly calling China a ally. In fact just because they have trade status with us does not make them an ally. Russia had and has trade status with us it does not make them our allies. You have made some good points in this thread and Esmorz has made some good points.

Fact: China trades unfairly because even though they finally let the Yuan float slightly its still tied to the dollar.

Fact: China regardless of how much Westernization through somewhat semi Capitalistic pratices they have instituted, is and will be a Totalatarian regime. A regime based on non western principles and non western ethics.

In that sense trading with them is a double edged sword.

Fact: The only place a real militaristic show down with China would or could arise is Taiwan.

Fact: Though the Chinese spy on us and us on them truth remains that indeed they do need us around economically, see above for why.

Fact: Truth be told China does not have to ever fight us or win us Military wise. They have the ability to beat us financially Gross domestic product wise. If we keep on allowing them to tie the Yuan to the dollar.

Now these are truths take them for what they are worth. Do I feel that guy did not get a proper punishment? Yes. Do I feel a proper punishment would send a message to the Chinese government? No.

The Chinese Government looks at things from a very eastern ethic point of view. Hence when Mattel discovered the fact that their toys manufactured in China had lead paint(among other toxins), instead of China apologizing to Mattel, China made Mattel apologize to China. China's reason? Mattel making China lose face in the Manufacturing world. Especially when Mattel had become so dependent on Chinese manufacturing.

How did China actually get Mattel to capitulate to this apology? They told Mattel either you apologize so we don't look bad or we no longer manufacture product for you. BLACKMAIL. In a Nutshell thats China ethics for you.

Mattel should have said fuck you,we will suck it up and take our business elsewhere. Though being greedy about cheap Chinese labor, swallowed hard.

Look no further than Walmart for the same kind of business mindset that goes for that kind of stuff in the name of greedy profit.

Nothing wrong with Capitalism, Nothing wrong with making money, provided its done ethically with out greed or exploitation.

kandyflip445
04-03-2008, 09:27 PM
This dude waited 20 years to get the stuff he wanted. WTF is 24 years waiting to get out going to do to him? Doesn't seem like he'll mind much.

ESmorz
04-03-2008, 09:32 PM
Nothing wrong with Capitalism, Nothing wrong with making money, provided its done ethically with out greed or exploitation.

Yeah, but in a sense that's pretty much how anyone makes lots of money in a Capitalistic society.

I fucking hate politics. Foreign and domestic.

OptionZero
04-03-2008, 09:38 PM
There is politics in all levels of society, whether between international, domestic, in the work place, circles of friends

It is part of civilized society

Andrew Bohan
04-03-2008, 09:39 PM
so the root of the problem is civilization then


caveman days, here i come

ESmorz
04-03-2008, 09:51 PM
so the root of the problem is civilization then


caveman days, here i come

Seriously. Then we'd just be bonkin each other with rocks for the least hairy woman though.

drift freaq
04-03-2008, 11:58 PM
[QUOTE=ESmorz;1943513]Yeah, but in a sense that's pretty much how anyone makes lots of money in a Capitalistic society.
QUOTE]

I am sorry but your above statement comes off quite ignorantly . You sir have a poor understanding of Capitalism and speak like a socialist or even a communist.
Plus the fact that you do not have to be corrupt or greedy to make money and if you think you do will your lost already.

Oh wait you have Castro as your avatar already, that kinda explains your comments.

ESmorz
04-04-2008, 12:04 AM
[quote=ESmorz;1943513]Yeah, but in a sense that's pretty much how anyone makes lots of money in a Capitalistic society.
QUOTE]

I am sorry but your above statement comes off quite ignorantly . You sir have a poor understanding of Capitalism and speak like a socialist or even a communist.
Plus the fact that you do not have to be corrupt or greedy to make money and if you think you do will your lost already.

Oh wait you have Castro as your avatar already, that kinda explains your comments.

Get these straight:

The Castro Avatar is a joke.
I am not a communist or socialist. Nor am I communist or socialist sympathizer.
I am 100% for capitalism and free enterprise.

All I am saying is that to get pretty high up in the game, you will probably step on a lot of peoples balls on the way to the top. It's just how shit is.

drift freaq
04-04-2008, 12:14 AM
[quote=drift freaq;1943826]

Get these straight:

The Castro Avatar is a joke.
I am not a communist or socialist. Nor am I communist or socialist sympathizer.
I am 100% for capitalism and free enterprise.

All I am saying is that to get pretty high up in the game, you will probably step on a lot of peoples balls on the way to the top. It's just how shit is.

Well if you believe that you have a lot to learn, a person can make very good money and be very successful without being dishonest or stepping on peoples balls.
If you believe what you stated above then you run the risk of being a victim of those beliefs. You will rationalize your reasons for being dishonest with statements like above.
I suggest you think about your statements and they way they may sound. I apologize to you for taking your comments at face value.
They did come off in a very negative anti Capitalism way.

ESmorz
04-04-2008, 12:19 AM
[quote=ESmorz;1943835]

Well if you believe that you have a lot to learn, a person can make very good money and be very successful without being dishonest or stepping on peoples balls.
If you believe what you stated above then you run the risk of being a victim of those beliefs. You will rationalize your reasons for being dishonest with statements like above.
I suggest you think about your statements and they way they may sound. I apologize to you for taking your comments at face value.
They did come off in a very negative anti Capitalism way.

I can see how they would. I know it is possible to do so, without a doubt.
However, I did say probably. I respect nothing more than someone who is able to make a good honest living.

I'm just saying that if you look at a lot of the worlds richest and most powerful people, they have gotten to where they are by stepping on the heads of their subordinates. To clarify, I certainly do not think all of them do this.

Capitalism isn't perfect, nothing is. For any system there will always be those who take advantage of it, propelled by their own greed and lust for power.

Hope that clears things up.

TURBOMAN
04-04-2008, 12:24 AM
Damn I'm not reading all of that. Can someone tell me what is it about.

Andrew Bohan
04-04-2008, 12:26 AM
some shit went down
then some people talked shit.

the end

TURBOMAN
04-04-2008, 12:28 AM
some shit went down
then some people talked shit.

the end

LOL Thx see it wasn't that hard now was it.

yudalicious
04-04-2008, 01:02 AM
Gotta give this some thought though...
Dont you think Americans, as well, have espionage agents in foreign countries?

What do you guys think about that??

And if China catches one of these agents and executes him (as suggested by some here), the whole world would probably get on China's ass about human rights. But of course, we're America, our shit doesn't stink.

Omarius Maximus
04-04-2008, 01:40 AM
I don't understand how you can spend 24 years here and still have loyalties to a country in which your most recent memory goes way back to 1984. I mean how brainwashed was this dude? Did he honestly believe that his life would have been/was significantly better in communist China? Or was it just loyalty to his fellow Chinamen? Either way, it was completely retarded.

MaD1337M3DRiV3r
04-04-2008, 01:52 AM
The chinese would have executed him on the spot if it were vise versa (maybe thats the message we sent them, stop executing people).

Farzam
04-04-2008, 04:12 PM
Honestly after seeing Chinese-made toys and vehicles, i'm not too concerned about them having designs for weapons or similar things. LOL!

ByeByeSti
04-04-2008, 04:42 PM
we got owned.... damnit!!

but hye so did he

ESmorz
04-04-2008, 04:56 PM
This dude waited 20 years to get the stuff he wanted. WTF is 24 years waiting to get out going to do to him? Doesn't seem like he'll mind much.

Well it is Federal Rape You In the Ass Prison...

PRADOgy
04-04-2008, 05:10 PM
See this is what im talking about right here..


omg

im no racist.. but do aggree on solely hiring AMRICAN BORN AND RAISED people for jobs like this.. not only that.. as discriminating as it sounds.. you should be minimal a 2nd generation too..


just my 00.02

godzillarb
04-04-2008, 05:17 PM
His entire family should be deported along with seizure of all property. Personally, I'd have him serve those 24 years in solitary confinement.

That would send a message.

PRADOgy
04-04-2008, 05:22 PM
His entire family should be deported along with seizure of all property. Personally, I'd have him serve those 24 years in solitary confinement.

That would send a message.
why send his family.. they didnt do the crime unless they aided and abided ( how ever u spell it ) then they should let be

godzillarb
04-04-2008, 05:43 PM
why send his family.. they didnt do the crime unless they aided and abided ( how ever u spell it ) then they should let be

How could they not know? 20 years?

The whole idea is to send a message, knowing your family will be kicked the hell out would be a strong incentive.

2ilvia
04-04-2008, 06:15 PM
im no racist.. but do aggree on solely hiring AMRICAN BORN AND RAISED people for jobs like this.. not only that.. as discriminating as it sounds.. you should be minimal a 2nd generation too..

i dont think it would matter, everyone has a price, well except for robots

S13_Nightkid
04-05-2008, 11:42 AM
See this is what im talking about right here..


omg

im no racist.. but do aggree on solely hiring AMRICAN BORN AND RAISED people for jobs like this.. not only that.. as discriminating as it sounds.. you should be minimal a 2nd generation too..


just my 00.02

i wouldnt say that exactly say that...there are americans who do that shit too... and defect to where ever.

flip3d
04-05-2008, 02:56 PM
Here's what I think.

Oh well. It wont affect us.