Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

[Antihero983]

WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

ADVERTISEMENT

An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently.

"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."

Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.

The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.

Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."

The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent.

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.

But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.

She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.

"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."

The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.

Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."


I don't even know where to start with this one.....:loco:

[Phlip]

I will begin that these people are not what one can expect of rationally-thinking people. They were religious zealots and not regularly religious people. They should be tried and thrown in Federal Ass-Raping Prison forever.

[SimpleS14]

A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.

That has to be the most random and off-topic sentence in that news article.


This is a touche matter, but I don't think the parents should go to prison. I feel sorry for their lose and what they (the siblings) are probably going through.

[exitspeed]

There are many crazy people in the World. There are a lot in WI.

[SHIFT_*grind*]

They were religious zealots and not regularly religious people. They should be tried and thrown in Federal Ass-Raping Prison forever.

I'm going to agree with this. If we're going to start letting crazy people go free because of religious reasons, well...we may as well legalize terrorism.

Fundamentally, this is no different from Islamic extremists blowing people up because they believe it's the will of Allah; it's just on a much smaller scale.

[usdm180sx]

Blind, STUPID faith. The Bible also says to "seek advice" which these people did not do. REALLY sad...

[98s14inaz]

What a horrific way to go. I cannot believe people can get religion so wrong. God helps them who help themselves. This isn't like the girl had Leprosy and was untreatable/cureable. She had diabetes for Christ's sake. Easily treatable. Parents = FAIL

[fromxtor]

This is crazy talk, if prayer fixed everything there would be no Doctors.

[vvtisupra]

there are still people who refuse the idea of science and evolution. Those same people don't believe we evolve from a lower being..... I guess they proved they haven't evolved.

[drifting_changed_mylife]

and i thaught my friend who preys to win the loto and for ppl to die was bad

[kingkilburn]

This reminds me of that joke about the guy lost at sea.
He prays that he be saved yet every time a boat comes by he tells the people "Don't worry about me, God is going to save me." When he eventually dies he asks God why he didn't save him and God replies "I sent countless boats and planes for you and you refused. What were you expecting the literal hand of God to descend from the heavens and scoop you up." The guy standing there looking at his feet meekly says "Yes."

[Rob's S14]

I'm just speechless...

What's worse is that, even the girls Aunt was said they had been trying to convince them to take her to a dr/hospital for atleast a couple days.

[OptionZero]

it's easy to criticize here (and deservedly, given the outcome), but the flip side is scary:

What would happen if the boundaries for government intrusion were lax? Do you *really* trust the government enough to let them have leeway to step in and start making medical decisions for your kids (if u were parents)?

There's really no good test for *before* the fact determination, and any procedure that's too complicated will take too long or require too much discretion to serve its purpose

[steve shadows]

It's called darwin

The government should encourage stupid people to die off, not try to take custody and force treatment.

[bloodangels13]

criminal negelect....... lockem up and tell em not to drop the soap.. what the F i would go off on thoes parents like no other

[OurOnePassion]

Miracles just don't happen that much anymore. Not here anyway.

At least make it mandatory for her to tie her tubes so she can't have any more kids to let die.





Judge: God told me this morning that you FAIL and you're getting a holy tubal ligation.

Parent: He didn't tell me anything!!!

Judge: After that last stunt you pulled, I don't think he likes you right now.




*Agnostic -- for the record

[blasting_speed]

Maybe the parents faith wasn't as strong as it should of been. She lost her life,but she's in a better place anyway. Sad to hear.

[Suk02Si]

from what a co-worker has told me, according to the bible, one of the apostles was a doctor.

The parents should be crucified

[ManoNegra]

If I were one of the remaining kids I'd run away from home asap.

[s14unimog]

what can you say, there are some really stupid people out there:hammer: . Also for their sake, they better have a better defense than , "our lives are in gods hands now." No bit*h your lives are in the courts hands now, better get a good lawyer...

[TheArkitekt]

silly religtables....proving darwins theory all by themselves!!

[PoorMans180SX]

there are still people who refuse the idea of science and evolution. Those same people don't believe we evolve from a lower being..... I guess they proved they haven't evolved.

Show me a transitional form and I'll believe you.

I agree with most of the people in this thread. Blind faith isn't faith. Sad when people don't even understand that the God they're following is a rational God.

[Antihero983]

Show me a transitional form and I'll believe you.

I agree with most of the people in this thread. Blind faith isn't faith. Sad when people don't even understand that the God they're following is a rational God.

show me god and i'll believe you.

[PoorMans180SX]

show me god and i'll believe you.

Haha. Show me the most rational theory of how everything exists...oh wait, that's God.:keke:

I'll take this no further, don't worry anyone.:kiss:

[ALEXTHESUS*PECT]

I will begin that these people are not what one can expect of rationally-thinking people. They were religious zealots and not regularly religious people. They should be tried and thrown in Federal Ass-Raping Prison forever.

this is how i ee them too. most people will ask their GOD/HIGHER BEING for help in conjunction with the doctor's help. not instead of it! the thinkng would be GOD made these advances in medicine to help my child so please let them work. not blindly say heal her or take her for yourself!

poor girl, and really poor kids wo have lived through this loss and will carry it forever!:(

[OurOnePassion]

Will they see this as a "test of faith"? Saying she was "taken by the Lord" in order to strengthen them -- saying it was supposed to happen and therefore dismissing any personal fault to their situation. It's funny how one can use the concept of "God" and wrap it around a story to make it seem "okay".

[KwKouki]

This whole religion thing is getting out of hand. We have kid who is in jail for shooting at another person because a drug deal went sour. He was caught and tried of course. State offered him 3 years if he plead out, threw some bullshit prayer in their face and said "god will be my judge he shall see me through this"

...........god just gave him 20 years *teehee*

[usajdm]

I'm going to agree with this. If we're going to start letting crazy people go free because of religious reasons, well...we may as well legalize terrorism.

Fundamentally, this is no different from Islamic extremists blowing people up because they believe it's the will of Allah; it's just on a much smaller scale.

Well said SHIFT_*grind*.

A child just left to die......... what the fuck is wrong with people.
This is beyond sad.

[Antihero983]

Haha. Show me the most rational theory of how everything exists...oh wait, that's God.:keke:

I'll take this no further, don't worry anyone.:kiss:

LOL rational?

there's no solid proof of his existence, how can it be rational?

at least science backs itself up with fact.

[OurOnePassion]

Let us not get into a religious quarrel here. This sht will be locked quicker than dammit.

Science can back itself up with fact to a certain point... then there are theories and shit. And still I end up asking the same endless questions as one would with religion.

And you have to see things through their eyes -- how they were raised. To them, I'm sure it made all the sense in the world. However, some of us see it as an absolutely senseless act.

Something that made me think of things in a bit more clear manner: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Henry Roberts

It doesn't apply directly to this situation really... but... it just shows that both sides/opinions of/on the issue both believe whole-heartedly in their own personal ideal. Where THEY are the only right ones. We just have to learn to live with respect for other beliefs and be the bigger, smarter person when someone starts talking shit... we just have to remember that we're all entitled to our own beliefs and no one will ever change that. Bringing it back to what the parents believe and how in the world law will face religion in this particular case. Negligent homicide may seem just to the majority, and probably even the hardcore religious people could view this as "just letting her die". There's a bad apple on every tree, but that won't stop the rest of the apples from being baked into a delicious apple pie in which I will consume.

Plus, can you really say that there is a such thing as "fact"? You can get nihilistic with it, too...

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

this happened in 2008? sounds like early 1900's.

[azndoc]

Common sense is not too common these days.

That's all.

[OurOnePassion]

Common sense is not too common these days.

That's all.

I second that statement.

[BustedS13]

i'm agnostic. and you can believe whatever you want to believe. if religion helps you feel better about your life, if it makes you a happier person, then it's the right choice for you and have fun with it. live your life to its fullest potential.
but when your personal beliefs start affecting other peoples' lives, you have fucked up. you've crossed a line and you're a piece of shit. if you keep your city hall from having a nativity scene, you're a stupid fuck. if you make your women cover their bodies with black robes in fucking desert heat, you're a stupid fuck. if you protest at soldiers' funerals with "god hates fags" signs, you're an ignorant piece of shit. and if your kid dies because of your beliefs in something that isn't proven, when proven medical help is readily available, maybe you should be in a coffin too.

[jhec23]

Too sad. This is like praying to win the lottery without buying a lotto ticket. Religions are all the same IMO, as long as we have faith, we believe and we live our daily lives without hurting other people then it's all good. I hate people when they go to church on Sunday and they look like saints inside the church and when they go out to the parking, they start yelling at this old lady having a hard time backing up her car in the parking lot.

[CrimsonRockett]

i'm agnostic. and you can believe whatever you want to believe. if religion helps you feel better about your life, if it makes you a happier person, then it's the right choice for you and have fun with it. live your life to its fullest potential.
but when your personal beliefs start affecting other peoples' lives, you have fucked up. you've crossed a line and you're a piece of shit. if you keep your city hall from having a nativity scene, you're a stupid fuck. if you make your women cover their bodies with black robes in fucking desert heat, you're a stupid fuck. if you protest at soldiers' funerals with "god hates fags" signs, you're an ignorant piece of shit. and if your kid dies because of your beliefs in something that isn't proven, when proven medical help is readily available, maybe you should be in a coffin too.

x2.

I'm Agnostic as well.

To me, there's never been solid proof of the big man's existence.

The day I got pwnd by a taxi cab, my mom said:

"God was watching over you that day and saved your life."

"Actually, no. My car gave it's life to save mine."

She was pissed. To this day, she doesn't want to accept the fact that I'm agnostic.

So sad a child was left to die because the parents are living in a fantasy world.

[kornaz]

That's phucked up. All that religious crap is BS. I'm an atheist. I have nothing against other religions, but when it's taken over the limits - people become idiots.

[weagle]

There are many crazy people in the World. There are a lot in WI.

I will 2nd that. Its too bad the girl had to pay the price. I doubt this has opened the parents eyes.

[KwKouki]

I understand faith to a certain extent. What I dont understand is how people think that your entire life is already predetermined.......its rediculous. That are gonna say "oh god had plans for my daughter" even if that were true....his plans included this little girl suffering till her body gave out and died. Why pray to someone like this?

[BustedS13]

"God was watching over you that day and saved your life."



if God was watching over you, he was being an asshole. you'd think he would have killed the taxi's engine or something to keep you from getting hit. what a dick.

[CrimsonRockett]

if God was watching over you, he was being an asshole. you'd think he would have killed the taxi's engine or something to keep you from getting hit. what a dick.

If anything, he would've actually made the taxi hit the brakes.

Bastard hit me at 45-50mph and not one single skid mark.

I wonder if they're going to be charged for doing this to their poor kid.

What a fucked up way to go.

[ryguy]

They better get charged for at least reckless endangerment or something.

I know they're not Catholic, but Catholic teaching says that it's a sin to not seek out medical help to the extent of your abilities.

[WERDdabuilder]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_KmWbKJ8CyY

[Andrew Bohan]

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/politicalblog/wp-content/1004267.jpg

[all show no go]

^^^ maybe thats the church they attend.. gosh i know some people feel by believing and praying their troubles will be less severe or easier to deal with, but Diabetes and no doctors?? man poor kid by having parents like that id hate to say. Do what you can first and then pray at least!! shame..

[ryguy]

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/politicalblog/wp-content/1004267.jpg

WOW.

Put that on a mug.

[an_orange_s2k]

really sad. i worked in a home for Christian Scientists (people who pray for healing, no medicine) and it was pretty sad. every so often somone would not come for their meals(moved to 2nd floor in critical or passed) and everyone would just stop talkin about them as if they never existed. they dont take any kind of medicine so i always had to be on top of being clean, vitatmins, etc. one of the most uncomfortable things was that the nurses there only need a 6mon course to be certified..but to each their own

[HyperTek]

they must be Amish or something

or piss poor

[eastcoastS14]

Maybe the parents faith wasn't as strong as it should of been. She lost her life,but she's in a better place anyway. Sad to hear.

lol maybe her parents should have given her some skittles...or a kit kat.... or something lol wtf.

so they believe in the bible but dont belong to a church? way to pick the wrong time to choose faith lol...if i was the girl id be like damn can you guys stop praying and bring me to a doctor or somethin? Epic failure on the parents part, even funnier cause since they didnt take her to a doctor they didnt even know what they were praying for her to recover from :loco:

[PoorMans180SX]

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/politicalblog/wp-content/1004267.jpg

That is the dumbest thing ever. They clearly haven't read the bible AT ALL. Seriously, it pisses me off when other "Christians" do this bullcrap.:rl: Makes all of us who follow Jesus look like naive, stupid people that don't live in the same world as everyone else.

God is a reasonable God. Otherwise he wouldn't have made reasonable people. All over the Bible it talks about using reason and your mind, and developing your mind.

God doesn't control everything like a puppeteer, he let's things happen. Why? Because we have a free will.

[Andrew Bohan]

second-degree reckless homicide!!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/28/prayer.death.ap/index.html