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The ROMAN
03-19-2008, 09:11 AM
Last year I replaced just about everything in my power steering system, I had a bad leak which got worse in the rack and the lines were junk as well. After failing at rigging up my own high pressure ps line (it exploded after 5 seconds) I got the MA-Motorsports line. Now it looks like that is leaking too, right at where it goes into the rack. Installing it seemed pretty straightforward, since the two different washers only fit on one end each. I used teflon tape on the ends too. My question is to people who have this line; did I install it right and do you have any advice on why it's leaking? Even putting it on I felt like that washer was not supposed to be there, I'm pretty much assuming it's in the wrong place. I took some pics:


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/9082345029386/PS2.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/9082345029386/PS1.jpg

McRussellPants
03-19-2008, 09:16 AM
could be the aluminum fittings
could be the teflon tape on the fitting.
could be you under tightened it.

Aeroquip makes the fitting you need to not run crush washers or teflon. and its steel.

The ROMAN
03-19-2008, 09:30 AM
Do you have a part number by any chance? I'm looking at the Aeroquip PDF file and it only has M16 and M18 x 1.5 adaptors, the pressure side is M14 if I remember correctly. I'll give them a call after class.

Actually I'll try tightening it a bit more before I do anything else and see if that fixes it first.

McRussellPants
03-19-2008, 10:34 AM
RUS-670531 Russell AN to Metric Adapter Fittings
RUS-648070 Russell AN to Metric Adapter Fittings

one side is a 16mm the other is 14mm

They were Russell fittings my bad. The pump side still needs a crush washer.

The ROMAN
03-19-2008, 01:09 PM
Ok great, thanks for your help.

sean350z
03-19-2008, 04:01 PM
Does the washer that came with the MA line look like this?

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Images/L/3245.JPG

If not you should get one of those and give it a try. If the rubber part fails the aluminum still acts as a crush washer.

Def
03-19-2008, 08:32 PM
Again with the teflon tape on straight threads... why?

Take off the teflon tape.

I'd use a copper crush washer, it will compress easier than an aluminum one. Natural rubber and ATF are not friends, so I would be wary of using anything I didn't know would handle ATF usage.

The ROMAN
03-19-2008, 08:35 PM
Again with the teflon tape on straight threads... why?

Take off the teflon tape.

I'd use a copper crush washer, it will compress easier than an aluminum one. Natural rubber and ATF are not friends, so I would be wary of using anything I didn't know would handle ATF usage.

Why not, exactly?:confused: Anyway the washer on there right now is the rubber one in the pic. It doesn't fit too well, though (bends inward when I tightened it down). I'll just order a copper one and replace everything this weekend (minus the teflon).

Thanks for the replies.

Def
03-19-2008, 08:57 PM
You *ONLY* use teflon on tapered threads(like pipe threads, national pipe thread = NPT). There are no tapered threads anywhere in the PS system.

Sileighty_85
03-19-2008, 11:32 PM
Teflon Tape is for air and water only
Use Leak Lock comes in a blue or white tube should take care of that leak if nothing else, I use it on 35 ton Hydraulic jacks
heres what it looks like http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3TA67

onepuff
03-20-2008, 12:35 AM
I would just try the copper washer.

Def
03-20-2008, 08:01 AM
Teflon Tape is for air and water only
Use Leak Lock comes in a blue or white tube should take care of that leak if nothing else, I use it on 35 ton Hydraulic jacks
heres what it looks like http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3TA67

No it's not - teflon tape works on anything.


Why are you recommending a thread sealant on straight threads? They don't even seal on the threads!

Use a proper crush washer like the fitting is designed to work with...


Does everybody here just randomly use thread sealant on every connection on their car that has fluid in it?

Sileighty_85
03-20-2008, 10:13 AM
No it's not - teflon tape works on anything.
Wrong Hyro Fuild eats way at Teflon Tape, there for it leaks
Notice its mainly used by Plumbers



Why are you recommending a thread sealant on straight threads? They don't even seal on the threads!

Leak Lock can be used on all metal or plastic materials, including , aluminum, aluminum alloys, cast irons, copper, copper alloys, (brass, bronze, etc...), magnesium and magnesium alloys, carbon steels, stainless steels, galvanized surfaces, PVC, CPVC, ABS, fiberglass, black polypropylene, and kynar. Leak Lock should be applied to threaded joints, flanged joints, gasket surfaces and all mating surfaces where a fluid-tight seal is required.

As Leak Lock Dries It hardends Therefore Creating a strong tight seal


Use a proper crush washer like the fitting is designed to work with...


well if that fails you gotta use another alternative

projectRDM
03-20-2008, 06:45 PM
Does everybody here just randomly use thread sealant on every connection on their car that has fluid in it?

You must have forgotten where you are. 240SX owners don't do things correctly, no matter how much you tell them to.

Def
03-20-2008, 06:56 PM
Wrong Hyro Fuild eats way at Teflon Tape, there for it leaks
Notice its mainly used by Plumbers


What the hell is Hydro Fluid? No idea what you're talking about. Teflon tape is used by all sorts of industries.

I use it on much stronger solvents than ATF at work everyday and it holds to thousands of PSI.

Def
03-20-2008, 06:57 PM
You must have forgotten where you are. 240SX owners don't do things correctly, no matter how much you tell them to.

Obviously...

I don't remember seeing this other places, but it seems like everybody just puts teflon tape and thread sealant on fittings on a whim here.

Sileighty_85
03-20-2008, 07:09 PM
What the hell is Hydro Fluid? No idea what you're talking about. Teflon tape is used by all sorts of industries.

I use it on much stronger solvents than ATF at work everyday and it holds to thousands of PSI.

ATF is a form of Hydraulic Fluid (AKA Hydro, Not meaning Water) , Yes Teflon Tape is used by many but should not be used on Hyraulic Systems, Over time It eats the Teflon away.

I never said it wouldnt hold pressure,

Def
03-20-2008, 09:27 PM
All fluids are incompressible - ATF is nothing like most hydraulic fluid used in industry/aerospace. You can convey hydraulic power with almost any fluid that doesn't vaporize at the temperatures involved.

I've never seen teflon tape "eaten" away by ATF or actual hydraulic fluid.

The tape is filling voids in the thread to thread sealing in case you don't know, so if it's "eaten away" the connection *WILL* leak as if no thread sealant was used.


I'm just still not getting where you're coming from other than you think ATF can somehow "eat away" PTFE - which is one of the most inert substances out there.

Sileighty_85
03-20-2008, 10:03 PM
I see it happen alot I work with aircrafts and lots of hydraulics machinery, and there is a reason on why we dont use Teflon Tape on our hydraulic lines cuz it it breaks down the sealing ability of the teflon. Im always see leaky machinery come into my shop due to the new guys using teflon tape, and not leak lock.

some of this equiptment uses ATF and it still leaks when Teflon is used.

Def
03-20-2008, 10:52 PM
I work with fighter jets, and I've seen multi-million dollar test fixtures use teflon tape on hydraulic lines, and 15 years after being built it's still going strong, not leaking or breaking down.

Of course it's not used on aircraft, as it's a FOD hazard, but it's used all the time around the lab with no reliability problems. I really don't see how PTFE is affected by ATF. It is inert with almost all solvents.

I guess we'll just have to say we've got a difference in experience.

LA_phantom_240
03-20-2008, 10:57 PM
ATF is a form of Hydraulic Fluid (AKA Hydro, Not meaning Water) , Yes Teflon Tape is used by many but should not be used on Hyraulic Systems, Over time It eats the Teflon away.

I never said it wouldnt hold pressure,

Totally not true. We use Teflon tape and "pipe dope" on pipe fittings on winches and hydraulic motors all day long where I work and trust me, that shit does not eat away at teflon tape.

All fluids are incompressible - ATF is nothing like most hydraulic fluid used in industry/aerospace. You can convey hydraulic power with almost any fluid that doesn't vaporize at the temperatures involved.

I've never seen teflon tape "eaten" away by ATF or actual hydraulic fluid.

The tape is filling voids in the thread to thread sealing in case you don't know, so if it's "eaten away" the connection *WILL* leak as if no thread sealant was used.


I'm just still not getting where you're coming from other than you think ATF can somehow "eat away" PTFE - which is one of the most inert substances out there.

This is also not true. Fluids can be compressed... very slightly with a lot of force, but it is still possible.

Sileighty_85
03-20-2008, 11:32 PM
The type of fitting you use plays a big roll, if your using a flared fitting (which really doesnt require any type of sealer since is self seals) the it wont leak, we use lots of straight fittings and teflon wont seal it, I really didnt mean to use the work "Eat" but it seems to "Thin" out the teflon and it leaks by it.
"Pipe Dope"is Leak Lock thats what I was telling the OP to use if he couldnt find anything else to stop his leak

LA_phantom_240
03-21-2008, 08:02 AM
The type of fitting you use plays a big roll, if your using a flared fitting (which really doesnt require any type of sealer since is self seals) the it wont leak, we use lots of straight fittings and teflon wont seal it, I really didnt mean to use the work "Eat" but it seems to "Thin" out the teflon and it leaks by it.
"Pipe Dope"is Leak Lock thats what I was telling the OP to use if he couldnt find anything else to stop his leak

Ah I see. Yes, if you don't use enough tape, it won't do any good. Straight fittings need a crush casher. Flare doesn't need anything. Tapered (pipe thread) require tape or dope (leak lock?).

scottie
03-21-2008, 08:04 AM
Teflon tape is used on straight ends because it does help it seal. I use Teflon glue because it gets really good coverage. a NPT fitting is best because it expands so it seals itself but cant be used in this case. Never use Teflon on the AN fittings because it will prevent the male end from seating to the female end. I always use sealant on straight ends because there is really nothing to help seal it. I would look at getting pipe sealant or teflon glue sealant and put it back together. The little rubber grommet is still on the fitting going into the rack correct?

Scott

Def
03-21-2008, 01:14 PM
This is also not true. Fluids can be compressed... very slightly with a lot of force, but it is still possible.

...it's a fluid dynamics term. Not an absolute description that you can't change their volume one bit. Liquids are treated as incompressible fluids, and all roughly behave "the same" over a wide range of pressures.

Of course things will change their volume to some degree when a force is exerted on them. Look up what an incompressible fluid is if you think that's a contradiction.

Def
03-21-2008, 01:16 PM
The type of fitting you use plays a big roll, if your using a flared fitting (which really doesnt require any type of sealer since is self seals) the it wont leak, we use lots of straight fittings and teflon wont seal it, I really didnt mean to use the work "Eat" but it seems to "Thin" out the teflon and it leaks by it.
"Pipe Dope"is Leak Lock thats what I was telling the OP to use if he couldnt find anything else to stop his leak

Oil and ATF can "eat through" many types of pipe dope. I have to pull the lines on my oil cooler because the pipe dope was eventually dissolved by the oil and it started to leak. Used teflon tape on half of them and no problems thus far.

LA_phantom_240
03-21-2008, 02:45 PM
...it's a fluid dynamics term. Not an absolute description that you can't change their volume one bit. Liquids are treated as incompressible fluids, and all roughly behave "the same" over a wide range of pressures.

Of course things will change their volume to some degree when a force is exerted on them. Look up what an incompressible fluid is if you think that's a contradiction.

I know exactly what you're talking about. As a hydraulic mechanic (crane service), I've read up pretty well on fluid power theories and such. My dad made me do it because he wants me to "go a step above being a 'parts changer' and learn this shit".... lol. He's been doing this for about 20 years now.

Def
03-21-2008, 05:36 PM
I know exactly what you're talking about. As a hydraulic mechanic (crane service), I've read up pretty well on fluid power theories and such. My dad made me do it because he wants me to "go a step above being a 'parts changer' and learn this shit".... lol. He's been doing this for about 20 years now.

Then it shouldn't confuse you when I use the term "incompressible fluid" - that doesn't mean it doesn't change volume, it's just a descriptor of how the fluid behaves vs. a compressible one like air.