Fuel Mixtures & E85 or Toluene as a booster

[racer98]

I wanted to know about if any one has tired the E85 Mixture or ran Toluene as a booster :confused:

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&highlight=e85

http://www.e85.us/EnginePerformance.shtml

[shade]

I sort of asked my brother this once. My question was if we can make our cars an alternative fuel vehicle by using E85 so that it wouldn't require emmissions testing. He said that it wasn't going to work because we would have to run premix(what rotary guys do, my brother is one) so it doesn't dry and corrode the shit out of our cars. You shouldn't put more than 10% of ethanol in your fuel or..

"Several of the outstanding ethanol fuel issues are linked specifically to fuel systems. Fuels with more than 10% ethanol are not compatible with non E85-ready fuel system components and may cause corrosion of ferrous components. Ethanol fuel can negatively affect electric fuel pumps by increasing internal wear and undesirable spark generation, is not compatible with capacitance fuel level gauging indicators and may cause erroneous fuel quantity indications in vehicles that employ that system. and is not always compatible with marine craft, especially those that use fiberglass tanks.
Ethanol fuel decreases fuel-economy by 15-30%; this can be avoided using certain modifications that would, however, render the engine inoperable on regular petrol without the addition of an adjustable ECU, or use of multiple ECUs to run the engine on multiple fuel types. Tough materials are needed to accommodate a higher compression ratio to make an ethanol engine as efficient as it would be on petrol; these would be similar to those used in diesel engines which typically run at a CR of 20:1,versus about 8-12:1 for petrol engines."

You should be fine. Ten percent.

[cotbu]

I've run toluene many times, just to increase the safety margin. I have not run it since the gt28r upgrade. I do have my own mixture of 93oct, toluene and something special. I'm not exactly sure right now what the octane rating should be but, I think its 97 or 100 IDR.

[McRussellPants]

just buy racegas.

you can get the cheap stuff for like 5.50 a gallon.

or go smash pennies ect.

[racer98]

just buy racegas.

you can get the cheap stuff for like 5.50 a gallon.

or go smash pennies ect.

right, yeah well gas is not $4 per gallon in your area yet......

[racer98]

I sort of asked my brother this once. My question was if we can make our cars an alternative fuel vehicle by using E85 so that it wouldn't require emmissions testing. He said that it wasn't going to work because we would have to run premix(what rotary guys do, my brother is one) so it doesn't dry and corrode the shit out of our cars. You shouldn't put more than 10% of ethanol in your fuel or..

"Several of the outstanding ethanol fuel issues are linked specifically to fuel systems. Fuels with more than 10% ethanol are not compatible with non E85-ready fuel system components and may cause corrosion of ferrous components. Ethanol fuel can negatively affect electric fuel pumps by increasing internal wear and undesirable spark generation, is not compatible with capacitance fuel level gauging indicators and may cause erroneous fuel quantity indications in vehicles that employ that system. and is not always compatible with marine craft, especially those that use fiberglass tanks.
Ethanol fuel decreases fuel-economy by 15-30%; this can be avoided using certain modifications that would, however, render the engine inoperable on regular petrol without the addition of an adjustable ECU, or use of multiple ECUs to run the engine on multiple fuel types. Tough materials are needed to accommodate a higher compression ratio to make an ethanol engine as efficient as it would be on petrol; these would be similar to those used in diesel engines which typically run at a CR of 20:1,versus about 8-12:1 for petrol engines."

You should be fine. Ten percent.


what is the stock gas tank size for an S13 ? 13 gallons ?

and so 10% of E85 and mixed with 91 ? = 100 ?

[racer98]

I've run toluene many times, just to increase the safety margin. I have not run it since the gt28r upgrade. I do have my own mixture of 93oct, toluene and something special. I'm not exactly sure right now what the octane rating should be but, I think its 97 or 100 IDR.

have you had a chance to try

Xylline or Toluene ????


also what about a pre-mix set up like the rotary guys use ?

[KA24DESOneThree]

Premix is gas and oil. Unless you like the smell, it's stupid to do in an S13. We don't have apex seals to worry about. You seriously didn't search that one at all, did you?

Why not just try it? A can of toluene can't be much from Home Depot.

Do you even need it? I doubt a stock KA or SR could get much, if anything, from the boost on a normal day. On a 120-degree day at the track, you might be able to get more, but normally it's nominal.

[racer98]

Premix is gas and oil. Unless you like the smell, it's stupid to do in an S13. We don't have apex seals to worry about. You seriously didn't search that one at all, did you?

Why not just try it? A can of toluene can't be much from Home Depot.

Do you even need it? I doubt a stock KA or SR could get much, if anything, from the boost on a normal day. On a 120-degree day at the track, you might be able to get more, but normally it's nominal.

That does not make sence. Yes I have searched the topic, care to share the links with it !

[racer98]

...............................

care to share your ninja thoughts ?:bigok:

[Def]

Xylene and Toluene don't mix at their individually rated octanes(117 and 114 AKI respectively). They mix more along the lines of 103-105 AKI octane depending on the concentration(mixing octane actually goes up as the concentration goes up slightly).

[shade]

According to the owner's manual, S13s have 15-7/8 gal fuel capacity.
I'll get back to you in the morning with the second question. Too sleepy to think... and I got finals for the whole week!

what is the stock gas tank size for an S13 ? 13 gallons ?

and so 10% of E85 and mixed with 91 ? = 100 ?

[cotbu]

have you had a chance to try

Xylline or Toluene ????


also what about a pre-mix set up like the rotary guys use ?

The whole reason for adding toluene is to boost the octane. Why would i add oil if, oil lowers the octane? Well anyway my mix is 93 octane and toluene, and a dye that i can see with a black light. I think my mix is perfect not needing any additional lubricants and such. I first tried this mix on the dyno with a stock sr except for boost, front mount and exhaust.

I do like it, and if this year is anything like last year, I probably should run it again.

[KA24DESOneThree]

That does not make sence. Yes I have searched the topic, care to share the links with it !

How does it not make sense? If your ECU can't compensate for the increase in octane, you can't make more power.

Octane isn't power potential, it's a measurement of resistance to preignition. An untuned NA engine made to run on pump gas and at a low elevation won't really take advantage of the decreased detonation, as far as I know. What're you running as far as your powerplant?

All I did was type "premix RX7" into Google and got pages upon pages of discussion on the topic. Premix is meant to lube apex seals with less carbon buildup than the stock metering pump. If I grew up on a farm and was retarded, I'd premix, but I didn't, so I don't.

[shade]

Not ten percent of E85. Ten percent of ethanol. E85 only has 100 -105 octane. I don't know how much octane pure ethanol has so I can't calculate how much you need to make 100 octane.

what is the stock gas tank size for an S13 ? 13 gallons ?

and so 10% of E85 and mixed with 91 ? = 100 ?

[McRussellPants]

right, yeah well gas is not $4 per gallon in your area yet......

Price of racegas isn't dependant on pumpgas prices. VP does it like the airlines and locks in a price.

all the more reason to buy it if its only 2$ more.


All I did was type "premix RX7" into Google and got pages upon pages of discussion on the topic. Premix is meant to lube apex seals with less carbon buildup than the stock metering pump. If I grew up on a farm and was retarded, I'd premix, but I didn't, so I don't.

You'd premix to stop the E85 from drying out your lines and fuel pumps. Everyone here runs a walbro which is not E85 compatible sooo...

[racer98]

ok, so 20% of E85 + 5% 2 cycle oil + rest of the tank with 91.

wish me luck !

[KA24DESOneThree]

MRP, I guess I may be retarded. Thanks for that explanation.

E85 doesn't have same energy output for its weight and your gas mileage will suffer.

I'm still not seeing jack shit about you tuning to extract the most out of the car.

If everyone is jumping on the bandwagon without doing the modifications to make the car perform better, you're just paying out the ass for less gas mileage and a warm fuzzy feeling. If I'm wrong, correct me. If you're a ricer, correct yourself.

[S14DB]

ok, so 20% of E85 + 5% 2 cycle oil + rest of the tank with 91.

wish me luck !

That will give you 93 octane and oil deposits on your spark plugs. You're not a rotary, put the oil away.

Are you even knocking/pinging now?

[racer98]

That will give you 93 octane and oil deposits on your spark plugs. You're not a rotary, put the oil away.

Are you even knocking/pinging now?

A lot of high altitude driving, stuff over 6000ft.

[racer98]

How does it not make sense? If your ECU can't compensate for the increase in octane, you can't make more power.

Octane isn't power potential, it's a measurement of resistance to preignition. An untuned NA engine made to run on pump gas and at a low elevation won't really take advantage of the decreased detonation, as far as I know. What're you running as far as your powerplant?

All I did was type "premix RX7" into Google and got pages upon pages of discussion on the topic. Premix is meant to lube apex seals with less carbon buildup than the stock metering pump. If I grew up on a farm and was retarded, I'd premix, but I didn't, so I don't.


oh so you guess I have a SOHC N/a motor ? :squint:

[S14DB]

A lot of high altitude driving, stuff over 6000ft.

How does that answer my question?

[racer98]

Are you even knocking/pinging now?

yes I am. .................

[S14DB]

yes I am. .................

Well it has nothing to do with altitude.

What are you using for engine management? Turbo/NA? Stock Compression? Ignition timing?

[racer98]

Well it has nothing to do with altitude.

What are you using for engine management? Turbo/NA? Stock Compression? Ignition timing?

s13 black Sr20det + Mines ecu + AFc R + stock timming + 480cc inj + t28

[S14DB]

s13 black Sr20det + Mines ecu + AFc R + stock timming + 480cc inj + t28

What's your AFR's at? how much boost?