SR20DET vs KA24DE

[KADET4134]

Hey all, just wanted to be of some experienced assistance for those trying to choose between the KADE and the SR. I did the KA24DE-T conversion to my 139,000 mile motor. There were many problems indeed and you really cannot cut corners with this project. I recommend a rebuild because i blew 2 pistons eventually, but with an XS Engineering Turbo kit (Incld. Mani, Intercooler, BOV, etc.) and a stage 2 ACT clutch, Fidanza aluminum flywheel, SR20DET injectors, Walbro pump, pressure regulator, SAFC-II and a few other modifications I managed to pound out 316 RWHP and 400 LB. Ft. of torque @ 7 psi, which blew the SR20DET away by far, which make about 205 RWHP on a newer SR motor. I actually raced an SR20DET 240 w/mods, made in the same era as mine, and roasted it head to head, despite spinning through 3rd gear. These numbers are amazing indeed and the prices were fairly close, however here are my mistakes that could've saved me by doing originally: The Stage II ACT clutch began slipping immediately, which was bound to happen when I made all of that power off of the fairly large T-28 turbo. Next major issue was fuel. I originally thought I would be fine with the upgraded pump, larger injectors and SAFC-II, which in theory is correct. However, the SAFC wasn't enough and a regulator had to be added. Next to go were two of the pistons. I recommend a rebuild with at least racing pistons, especially if the car is over 50,000 miles. This is what will essentially convert your raw power to reliable, streetable power. The last issue was the turbo itself, which was expected because it was SSAutoZone, or as we like to call it, SSAutoZone. The SSAutochrome IS worth it however, as it is half the price of the other kits and will work with a plethora of good turbo's. This kit makes big power for the $1,250. The turbo blew within an hour of dynoing the 316 RWHP. I now have a T3/T4 setup which spools quicker and it was basically as simple as cutting off the T-28 flange and adding a T3/T4 one. This Garrett is faaar more reliable and I expect to make even bigger power on my next dyno, given that I have added a stage 3 clutch, Arias racing pistons and a smaller sized injector to create a more reliable flow of fuel, instead of the excess and problematic 370CC's which are NOT needed with a regulator, SAFC and walbro pump. It was simply just too much fuel and it pooled up in the cylinders and created big problems. Here's the catch... by the time you build an SR20DET up to this level of performance, you are looking at similar costs from doing the SR conversion or the KA-T. But, the KA-T will obviously dominate the SR with its insane size, which creates uncomparable torque and by the time you build an SR to match that power, it will start eating parts and possible even blow the motor, which in the long run, makes the KA-T cheaper, despite it being a bit more expensive in the long run. If you wish to run an SR20DET, buy a 240 with this motor already swapped into it. The swap is a pain in the ass and everyone i know had to have a shop finish the swap for them because it was very time consuming. Not to say the KA-T wasn't very time consuming, but we are looking at the Bang-to-buck ratio here. You can easily pick up an SR powered 240 in the states for $3,000-4,000, which is about what the cost of the swap initially, so you will save a TON of money and sweat by going this route. I wouldn't really go this route with a KA-T just because I don't know if I would fully trust someone elses work on a project this big and complex. The KA-T build will be a lot more troubleshooting and problem solving oriented, especially with the XSEngineering kit because it has no instructions or hints whatsoever. The SR is a lot less head scratching, but it will require more overall labor, which = a lot more overall money if you have a shop do the swap. Also check out PhatKA-T.com or .org or something, I know they had a KA24DE boosted s13 that was making well over 700 RWHP, so the potential for the KA-T is very underestimated by SR biased tuners. Overall the 2.4 will obviously make much more power and torque in an all out race build compared to the 2.0L SR, plus everyone and their grandma has a 240 with an SR swap. My entire project came to around $6,500-7,000 and it would've been a lot less but I got really busy and had to have the shop do a little of the work along with the rebuild. Either way you go, the price will be WAY higher than your estimate, so be prepared, because the more boost you try to run, the more sht you are going to blow up. Good luck with whichever you choose to go with and if you have any ?'s send me a message and I will try and help with the insight I've gained through a lot of experimentation and money spending.

[Irukandji]

Nice to see that you're willing to help, but I disagree with you on a few points.

If you wish to run an SR20DET, buy a 240 with this motor already swapped into it. The swap is a pain in the ass and everyone i know had to have a shop finish the swap for them because it was very time consuming. QUOTED from above

Umm... I know many people who have done their own swaps in less than a day... it's not difficult if you have common knowledge.


and this topic is overdiscussed... your personal experiences are simply YOUR experiences. They do not justify one route (KA or SR) being easier or "better " than the other. Looong thread, but it doesn't really discuss anything new.

[KADET4134]

Ok, agree to disagree. I find it very hard to believe anyone you know has done a full swap in a day, unless everything is already prepped. Maybe they dropped in the motor in and afternoon, but I doubt they removed the KA, made the modifications and then proceeded to get it running safely. It is a lot tougher than just hoisting out the KA and playing legos with the SR front clip. Don't get me wrong it is possible if they are pro's, but its very unlikely. Almost everyone on this topic seems to either not have one of the setups, or at least a proper KA-T. Plus the general population probably couldn't do the swap in a week, so I would rule out that point for argument. In fact the general population probably couldn't do the swap period. So there goes that point! You also need to keep in mind that doing the swap itself won't be near enough to keep up with the XSEngineering setup, as a stock SR will make 180-210 hp in factory form. It takes a bundle of mods to get an SR putting down reliable horsepower in the low to mid 300's, and it won't make torque like the 2.4, that's for sure. Through experimenting and comparing projects with local SR owners, we have come to an agreement that the same dollar will take you a lot farther with a KA. I give them props for what they have done and I do love a good project Sr20. I just find the SR swap pointless when the KA24DE has the potential that it does, unless you are a JDM fanatic, then there is no other way but to do the SR. And if I were to do a swap, I would simply swap in a KA24DE with low mileage on it and then build off of that. KA's are dirt cheap on the market because everyone is taking theirs out and putting in the SR20. I'm not necessarily saying one route it easier, but I am saying that the KA route is much more bang for the buck. That IS my opinion, however I not only have a popular local shop to back me on my experiences, but I also have an entire town with a large population of car guys and cruisers who will back me on it as well. What makes my thread different than all of the other people on this "overdiscussed" topic is that I have actual first hand experience and over a year of countless hours of research, because at one point I had to make the choice to jump off of the JDM bandwagon and do something insane.

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

Do you eat spiders? Because you kinda remind me of this guy:
http://members.cox.net/louiseattaque/tomwaits.jpg

Correct me if I did not read this right: You made 400 wheel torque at 7 psi with a T28?
This is what I think of when I read that:
http://www.furry.org.au/inc_B/Photos/dan2.JPG

[waynehead05]

400 hp at 7 psi only happens on a v-8. very hard to believe. plz use more punctuation and formatting. paragraphs at least. it's kinda hard to NOT get lost while reading this.

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

which in the long run, makes the KA-T cheaper, despite it being a bit more expensive in the long run

This statement makes my brain hurt. Or maybe its becuase I just drank a lot of scotch. When my brian hurts it makes me feel like this guy looks:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/GoonDriver/857.jpg

[DrtyRat]

If you wish to run an SR20DET, buy a 240 with this motor already swapped into it... The swap is a pain in the ass and everyone i know had to have a shop finish the swap for them because it was very time consuming... I wouldn't really go this route with a KA-T just because I don't know if I would fully trust someone elses work on a project this big and complex.
Let me premise this by saying I own an sr20 and have seen the numbers that are being put out on KA's and I agree that dollar for dollar I would consider this a viable option(end of disclaimer). While I am by no means an expert in this field I would have to say that your point about buying a 240 that's already swapped w/an sr would be just as much of a risk as buying it w/a modded KA. No matter which option you go w/you still don't know the quality of work that went into it unless you did it yourself. Now as far as most people not having the ability to do this on their own(the sr swap) I would say that you take a look at the swap done by 420sx...he seemed not to be an 'expert'(which is relative) but w/a little patience he did it. Now we could argue back and forth about whether your point of view is more valid than mine or anyone else but that would be pointless b/c its just that a point of view (how I/someone else views it vs. you). Good luck on you car!!! Oh yeah your gonna have a war on your hands!!!

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

This is my take on buying modified cars:
You need to know what you are looking at. If you can find a car that is well done and well cared for, then you can really save a lot of money buying a modified car.
If the car looks ill cared for than it probably is. Unless you get a smoken deal it most likely will just be a huge headache and money pit.

I do agree with the KADET4134 in that the KA is a good motor. But there is at least 5 or 6 years of intelligent ( and not ) debate behind the VS. issue, and not much of anything new is going to be brought into it.

I do not agree that SSAutochrome is worth it, and I don't get how you can say that when your turbo blew just one hour after the supposed dyno run that netted you 316 hp @ 7psi on a T28.

A note about the pics above: Thats my sense of humor, don't really expect too many people to think its as funny as I do.