Dyno on the V8 RX-7

[Baka Sama]

So I finally got a chance to talk to my bro. about the v8 rx-7. At the dyno it came in at 260hp and like 340ft lbs of torque. Not bad but he said the lack of power was because he had the stock heads on the chevy engine. He plans on adding aftermarket ones soon and it should at least be putting down mid 300 hp. At the dyno he said he saw a mustang saleen (or however you spell it) with only a few mods putting down almost 400hp. And a Honda s2000 with 180hp (not bad) but.... not even 140ft lbs or torque. &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'> That?s Honda for you.

[anisht]

umm....he took out the rotary engine....and put in a v8? &nbsp;

seems somewhat backwards to me. &nbsp;but i just think rotarys are hella cool, so maybe its just me.

[Baka Sama]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (anisht @ Oct. 28 2002,2:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">umm....he took out the rotary engine....and put in a v8? &nbsp;

seems somewhat backwards to me. &nbsp;but i just think rotarys are hella cool, so maybe its just me.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
yes they are. But turbos are expensive to maintain. Anyway...thats him not me.

[AKADriver]

The rotary is smooth and small, but it's not light nor very powerful, really, and due to their delicate nature there are tons of RX-7s sitting around with dead or dying engines.

So what's better, a dead rotary or a healthy V8?

An FC with a typical aluminum-head pushrod V8 will easily outaccelerate a stock or mildly modified FC, and easily outhandle the engine's donor car. &nbsp;It's a proven combination.

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (anisht @ Oct. 28 2002,2:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">umm....he took out the rotary engine....and put in a v8?

seems somewhat backwards to me. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
lol
There's no replacement for displacement. rx7 is a great track car, but rotary engines and most other turbocharged engines that came in japanese cars aren't the best for drag. If you wonna go fast in a straight line fast, a v8 is a way to go.

[red240ne]

it just doesn't really seem right though. &nbsp;why go from a light japanese engine to a heavy ass gas guzzlin v8?? &nbsp;it doesn't seem like the rx-7 would handle very good after that. &nbsp;what did he put in? a 350?

[RacerBoi]

A 13b and a 350 aren't that different in weight all things considered. The 350 engine mounts are only something like 400 dollars. People put 350s in fieros too. Light car + powerful engine = low qt mile time. I wouldnt want one for a daily driver though.

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (red240ne @ Oct. 28 2002,2:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">why go from a light japanese engine to a heavy ass gas guzzlin v8??</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
So he could run 9s all day long on pump gas for half the price it would take to make the rotary get there? It'll handle worth shit, but in a straight line it'll be damn fast. Plus imagine the look on people's faces when u pop the hood &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':love:'>

[Aze85]

first off, rx-7;s are pretty good drag cars. &nbsp;A 400hp rotary can push the rx into the low 11's no problem. sure it does suck to fine tune the 13b, but its worth it. &nbsp;its true that there is no replacement for displacement, unless you can cram a huge turbo under your hood and not detonate.
Y would you put abig block V8 into a rx7. I just dont undetstand &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'> . It's so unjapanese and it would take away the perfect weight distribution. 13b's ARE lighter.
oh well, i guess its unique and original <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[LanceS13]

Well, a 350 is a small block...not a big block. And why would you want 400 turbocharged HP putting you in the 11's, when you could have over 500 n/a HP for the same or less money getting you in the 10's? As long as it's a drag-only car, who cares about the weight distribution (although, I bet it's still better than alot of cars out there, especially if it's mounted as far back as possible, the battery is relocated to the trunk, and stuff that isn't needed for racing like a/c and emissions stuff is removed from the engine bay...but that's just speculation). Sounds like a winning combo to me, if executed right....big torquey engine in a lightweight chassis can make for a crazy power/weight ratio. A car with more than twice as many cc's in the engine than lbs. in the chassis is an instant novelty in my book.

[Baka Sama]

Why did he put a v8 in the rx7? Well first off you have to understand my bro.'s theory. He wanted the fasted car he could get spending the least amount of money. I think my brother was very successful. Rx-7 convertible body + Chevy V8 = about 4,000 after swap. After the after market heads (plus another 1,000) the final cost of the whole cars gonna be around 5,000. What other car you know that you can buy for 5k putting down over 300hp to the wheels? And yeh its his daily driver for now. Although he plans on buying something else, cause that baby drinks gas like its water.

[Bbandit]

i think your brother has a good point there..
modifying a car is based on personal preference so i would say your brother did a bad thing..
i must say what your bro did is very economical..
props to your bro!
now lemme see some pic!!! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Baka Sama @ Oct. 28 2002,10:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What other car you know that you can buy for 5k putting down over 300hp to the wheels?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
how does an 84 camaro putting out 400 at the crank sound? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

84 camaro z28 - $1000
built 355 putting out 400hp - $3000
misc stuff (exhaust itp) - $1000

The look on a ricer's face when a rusty piece of junk in the next lane spins tires through 3 gears at half throttle before dusting him - priceless.

Aze - to add to lance's words, that's all happening on pump gas. Now i don't know if you guys heard, but there was a viper for sale on ebay. Twin turbo. 1000hp at the crank at STOCK boost (7psi). and the engine isn't under any stress and is still on pump gas. While rx7 putting out the same hp will be running on race gas and be visiting a shop every week.
Final Note: domestics will ALWAYS be faster than us in a straight line. You gotta give them that. Even if you beat them, you can be sure they got much less under the hood.

[Tyler Durdan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Oct. 28 2002,12:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Final Note: domestics will ALWAYS be faster than us in a straight line. You gotta give them that. Even if you beat them, you can be sure they got much less under the hood.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I disagree. &nbsp;Everyone knows that you can take a civic and build it up to take a vette, as well you can take a mustang modified to outhandle a rx7. &nbsp;Even if an import has more under the hood, it doesn't necessarly mean he spent more (import car + mods < demostic car + fewer mods).

[AKADriver]

Who says it has to handle badly? &nbsp;Use aluminum heads (stock on the late model Ford 5.0, Chevy LT1) or hell, even an all aluminum LS1... &nbsp;With the popular conversion mounts the engine is still mounted behind the front strut towers, maintaining the front-midship layout. &nbsp;The V8's crank is in the bottom of the block instead of in the center like the rotary's eccentric shaft, so the transmission can sit lower. &nbsp;Relocate the battery to the passenger side of the hatch to offset any added weight. &nbsp;Use an aluminum radiator both to save weight and upgrade cooling. Maybe a FRP or carbon hood.

Result: minimal added weight. &nbsp;Maintained 50/50 balance. &nbsp;Huge power and reliability upgrade.

Someone I know was one of the pioneers of the V8 RX7 swap. &nbsp;He built his car as an autocrosser. &nbsp;You bet it was faster after he was done.. in the straights and the corners.

It's just a car. &nbsp;A pile of metal, rubber and glass. &nbsp;If it bothers you to have pistons thumping in an RX-7, take the badges off.

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tyler Durdan @ Oct. 29 2002,12:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Oct. 28 2002,12:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Final Note: domestics will ALWAYS be faster than us in a straight line. You gotta give them that. Even if you beat them, you can be sure they got much less under the hood.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I disagree. Everyone knows that you can take a civic and build it up to take a vette, as well you can take a mustang modified to outhandle a rx7. Even if an import has more under the hood, it doesn't necessarly mean he spent more (import car + mods < demostic car + fewer mods).</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
aha, and the same way you can take an 84 camaro for $1000 spend like $7000 on the mods and have a car pushing close to 800hp for what the civic alone will cost. My point is, if you take a stock car and put the same amount of money into it, the domestics will still be faster.

[AutoDestruct]

I have seen some FD's with 5.0 mustang's but fords eng. sucks. &nbsp;Now an FC with a small block chevy. &nbsp;I'm sorry to say it, but I think i might turn traitor. &nbsp; &nbsp; I never liked the whole idea of a sr20 swap any way. &nbsp;I can get a FC for a G, and a built 350 for a G. &nbsp;Now Fabrication, mounts. &nbsp;That's where the money is going to go. &nbsp;What about these "mounts" for $400? &nbsp; Wouldn't the tranny and rear diff have to go to do this swap? &nbsp; I'm going hunting on some RX-7 forums, I'll check back. &nbsp; &nbsp;Help a power junkie out. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':devil:'>

[nrcooled]

I have got to get into this one ::great thread:: <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

My point is anything can be had for cheap w/ the right opportunity and the money. &nbsp;
1. '91 240sx-$1500
2. sr20det &nbsp;-$2400
3. mods &nbsp; &nbsp; -$1000
total &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =$5000 (+/- a couple of bucks)

at 12psi putting down 250hp at the crank

My next point is that I am a big fan of the FC and FD as a whole and the V8 in the engine compartment makes me cringe but to each their own and I know that he would whoop my ass at a drag stip anyday <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[Tyler Durdan]

Kreator, to say a stock demostic is always faster than a stock import in a straight line is wrong. &nbsp;It's not always the case...98 gt mustang runs area of 14.5 (low to high 14's stock depending on driver), where a 98 tt supra runs low 13's stock. &nbsp;It just not ALWAYS that demostic are faster than imports in the drag. &nbsp; I do agree that high percent of demostic v-8's are faster in the drag, but not 100%.

[Tyler Durdan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Oct. 28 2002,12:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">84 camaro z28 - $1000
built 355 putting out 400hp - $3000
misc stuff (exhaust itp) - $1000</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Little more than that...changing from the 4 barrel 305 to the 350 fuel injection will cost around 2800 in itself. Not to mention a new cam, headers, port and polish, throttle body, x pipe exhaust, and then you may be at 400 hp (1600 - 1800). Plus, a proper fuel pump will run you around 600 at any shop, or if you do it yourself, better have all weekend. You have to drop the entire rear end, than the fuel tank to access it. Your looking at around 6000 for that 400bhp 84 camaro.

Cliff notes:
84 camaro: 1000
350 change over to fuel injection: 2800
Cam, headers, port and polish, etc.: 1800
Proper fuel pump: 110 - 710
total: 5710 - 6310

And this doesn't include the little shit that could go wrong...turbo 400 tranny, etc...

[adey]

Did someone say there was little to no weight difference between the 13B (n/a FC engine) and a chevy small block V8? ... I hope you know that one of the more touted points of a rotary are its small size and light weight; I'm all but completely sure that the 13B weighs less than our Truck engine KAs and less than an SR. There is no way you can say the two engines weigh similar amounts, no matter how much aluminium you use!

I just find the thought of putting pistons in an RX7 to be utterly disgusting. If you want a light shell to put a big engine in to make a fast car, get a geo metro... or at least keep it in a domestic!

As tuners (not hot-rodders) I believe in fine tuning; in well-designed and precisely manufactured engines (like the CA18 and 13b/20b)... NOT in big engines that make big power-- anyone can make a 5.0 litre V8 crank out 400 hp... it takes a real tuner to make a 1.3l rotary push out 160hp (stock FC) &nbsp;or a 2.0 I-4 push out 240hp (stock S2000)!

[LanceS13]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (adey @ Oct. 29 2002,12:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it takes a real tuner to make a 1.3l rotary push out 160hp (stock FC) or a 2.0 I-4 push out 240hp (stock S2000)!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
...or make a 5.7L push out 600+hp (well, not stock...but a V8 can be "fine-tuned" too)

[AutoDestruct]

Well you guys can all fine tune whatever the hell you want. &nbsp;I have to drive to work everyday and I don't have a 1000 bucks every month to go run dynos and remap my shit and fix whatever little twinky part decided to work at 80% capacity, and then pay the guy that figured all this jack out. &nbsp;Just so I can keep my 250 horse. &nbsp;

You see this is america where every twat that has got loot has a vette or a sl500. &nbsp;so you see I don't have time for any of this tuning hooptie bullshit. &nbsp;I need raw power and I don't give a damn how I get it. &nbsp;NOS, Displacment, or boost. &nbsp;I just want to get hassled the least by my car, get the most power, have something original, and be able to pay for it without having to sell bodyparts. &nbsp;I don't give a damn about the art of tuning. &nbsp;Or keeping &nbsp;a rotary a rotary. &nbsp;I can't buy a damn part for that eng. without driving 50 miles, or getting it delivered which is another Fing hassle. &nbsp;As far as I am concerned that thing is a failed enginnering project by some company that got bought out by Ford. &nbsp;This is hot rod country, with small block chevys going to ford 9 inch rears. &nbsp;So keeping the blood pure does not even concern me in the slightest.

So in summary you can keep your high dollar art of tune. &nbsp;Cause I'm not about that. &nbsp;I want to win.
Welcome to the Art of Hustle &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':devil:'>

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tyler Durdan @ Oct. 29 2002,12:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kreator, to say a stock demostic is always faster than a stock import in a straight line is wrong. It's not always the case...98 gt mustang runs area of 14.5 (low to high 14's stock depending on driver), where a 98 tt supra runs low 13's stock. It just not ALWAYS that demostic are faster than imports in the drag. I do agree that high percent of demostic v-8's are faster in the drag, but not 100%.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Dude, at least compare cars with the same prices. A brand new gt will run u like $25 grand. A tt supra brand new would be closer to $40. And 25 grand is the price of the prelude, that runs low 15s.... And 30 grand is the price of a cobra that will run with the supra about the same. And 40 grand is a price of corvette that'd whoop the hell outa yer supra. Now if you invest that $15 grand in the mustang it'll be owning the supra all day long.

And what fucking fuel injection are you talkin about? Carbs baby, carbs! And did you not notics the $1000 that covers all the other shit like exhaust, pumps etc? And it's still on stock tranny. it's almost dead, but he got a 5-speed lying around.... for $100 from junk yard. And walbro will do just fine for $120. No need to spend 700 bux on a fuel pump. And guess what? He is still running 400hp on STOCK pump. And don't bs me about pricing. My friend has a built engine in his 84 camaro (which i helped him build) pushing 400hp at the flywheel for 5K including the price of the car. You wonna come down here and see for youself?

Final example:
brand new base 98 240sx - 18,000
SR swap - ~2300 putting the car at about 200hp
KA turbo - ~3000 putting the car at about 240hp
total 20300-21000 for 200-240hp

brand new 98 camaro - 16,500
blower - 2500
total 19000 to run about 300hp.
And that's a proven fact (another one of my friends have one)

Oh and did we forget that that camaro costing 1500 less than a 240 will still whoop it? And can u gimme an import that after being bought brand new will give you 300hp at the wheels for 19000 including the price? I don't think u will be able to name a single one.

I know it's not v8s anymore, it just bothers me how people always bitch about imports being better at everything. Yes, they are ugly lately, yes they fall apart pretty soon. But you'll never have them in a straight line for the money. NEVER.

[Kreator]

Adey, this is america. Not japan. We don't have engine taxes. If domestics were trouble free and could be driven for years w/o any problems, believe me, noone would be owning an import. But since american muscle is built for people who don't really give a fuck about what their car looks or how fast the little things break and are only concerned with how fast their cars go (doh exactly opposite to the imports), nobody really cares what the muscle cars look like. Ofcourse now they are getting outlived with all the ricers being around which care only about wings on their cars and have no clue what a piston is. But go to a drag strip some time. You'll see a couple imports running 13s. And all the domestics running 12s. Do you know that having 400hp in a camaro is like "nothing" in domestics guys' standards? It's like having i/h/e on an import. The real hotrodders own cars that push more close to 700-800hp supercharged. Believe it requires alot of tuning and precision.

Finally, let's talk about efficiency. That 2.0 litre honda is still only putting out 150ft-lbs of torque. HP is a function of tq. It just tells you where the peak torque happens. Believe me, it's not that much of a deal. And it doesn't tell you about how efficient the engine is. It just tells you how it's designed. They might be mroe efficient. But they are more expensive at the same time. Did you see the nsx engine on ebay? Went for $9K. For what? There are 2 things you can do: Go fast for alot of money or go fast for less money. I like hte second route more

[SR20Fastback]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Oct. 29 2002,6:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Final example:
brand new base 98 240sx - 18,000
SR swap - ~2300 putting the car at about 200hp
KA turbo - ~3000 putting the car at about 240hp
total 20300-21000 for 200-240hp

brand new 98 camaro - 16,500
blower - 2500
total 19000 to run about 300hp.
And that's a proven fact (another one of my friends have one)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Kreator-

I think its unfair to use a 98 base model for 18k dollars. I purchased my car for 2250, and it was running well with pretty good miles for a '90. I saw quite a few that werent running between 400-800 dollars. This would easily cut the price per hp down compared to using the 98, and even compared to the camaro. Just thought Id point that out.

[Kreator]

<!--QuoteBegin--SR20Fastback+Oct. 29 2002,9<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SR20Fastback @ Oct. 29 2002,9<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>5)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Oct. 29 2002,6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Final example:
brand new base 98 240sx - 18,000
SR swap - ~2300 putting the car at about 200hp
KA turbo - ~3000 putting the car at about 240hp
total 20300-21000 for 200-240hp

brand new 98 camaro - 16,500
blower - 2500
total 19000 to run about 300hp.
And that's a proven fact (another one of my friends have one)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Kreator-

I think its unfair to use a 98 base model for 18k dollars. I purchased my car for 2250, and it was running well with pretty good miles for a '90. I saw quite a few that werent running between 400-800 dollars. This would easily cut the price per hp down compared to using the 98, and even compared to the camaro. Just thought Id point that out.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I was taking a base brand new model.
Fine, lets take s13s

brand new 1990 240sx - 13500
15800-16500 for 200-240hp

brand new 1990 camaro rs - 11000
13500 - 250hp

brand new 1990 camaro iroc-z - 14500
16000 to run 320hp

keep em coming <!--emo&<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

if you wonna talk used junked cars, belive me you'll find more camaros for $1000 than 240s and not running they'll cost you like $300 bux. hell, my friend ran his $1000 camaro for a year before he rebuilt the engine. He was running rich, but the car didn't give him any problems during that year.

[SR20Fastback]

Been running my car strong for 6 months modded. Plan on keeping it that way til December. I can understand that camaros can be found for equally as cheap if not cheaper than most imports, but you have to admit S13's can be had for extremely cheap. Especially for a rwd, reliable car.

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SR20Fastback @ Oct. 29 2002,9:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Been running my car strong for 6 months modded. Plan on keeping it that way til December. I can understand that camaros can be found for equally as cheap if not cheaper than most imports, but you have to admit S13's can be had for extremely cheap. Especially for a rwd, reliable car.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I agree. I'm just saying that it still can't beat the domestics in power/money. Honestly though, i'm feeling that the 350z is gonna mess up the domestic dominance in the sports world pretty soon. It provides decent horsepower for very decent money. It gets really close to mustang cobra (not the new one) and it's only tiny bit more expensive. But unlike the cobra it won't start falling apart 2 years down the road.

[SR20Fastback]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Oct. 29 2002,7:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SR20Fastback @ Oct. 29 2002,9:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Been running my car strong for 6 months modded. Plan on keeping it that way til December. I can understand that camaros can be found for equally as cheap if not cheaper than most imports, but you have to admit S13's can be had for extremely cheap. Especially for a rwd, reliable car.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I agree. I'm just saying that it still can't beat the domestics in power/money. Honestly though, i'm feeling that the 350z is gonna mess up the domestic dominance in the sports world pretty soon. It provides decent horsepower for very decent money. It gets really close to mustang cobra (not the new one) and it's only tiny bit more expensive. But unlike the cobra it won't start falling apart 2 years down the road.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Hah very true. I cant wait to see a forced induction version of the track model. Factory of course, though I heard somewhere there is already a supercharger out for it. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[Tyler Durdan]

Kreator...my point was so you would see that demostic are not ALWAYS faster than imports in a straight line. If you said something that hp/dollar demostic will always win, or for the money demostics are faster than imports in a straight line, then I would agree with you. But you didn't, you stated that they are always faster...I proved you wrong with the supra mustang comparison. You want equal price...here ya go:

Cars at or under 25,000 (benchmark set by Mustang GT)
(00)Camaro z-28.....13.3 qt. mile
(00)Mustang GT......14.5 qt. mile
(02)WRX sti............14.0 qt. mile
(00)Integra Type R...14.5 qt. mile

OR

99 C5 Corvette....13.0 qt. mile 40,000 brand new
95 RX7...............13.5 qt. mile 31,000 brand new
Leaves 9 grand to make cars equal in price for the rx7...6 tenths of a second easily attained.

On the 84 camaro z-28...I misread the 355 thinking you were talking about a 350 lt1 or ls1 or just a plain old chevy 350 short block.

[Kreator]

Well i thought it was assumed. I mean we could start comparing a geo metro and r34 if the pricing didn't matter. What i was talking about was that all in all if you take and build a v8 and take an import engine and turbo it, the v8 is gonna put out more. Plus if we are talking hardcore straight line, you'll rarely see v8s with less than 600 at the crank. And at that point import engines become much more expensive.

[adey]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LanceS13 @ Oct. 29 2002,1:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...or make a 5.7L push out 600+hp (well, not stock...but a V8 can be "fine-tuned" too)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Aww come on, a non-stock 1.3l rotary can be fine-tuned to push 600+whp too, and your V8's got more than 4x the displacement. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> My point was stock for stock, it's the american mind-set that "bigger always= better" that gets a little annoying. I just get the feeling that they've got something to prove!

I suppose that since they got their cars for the same price but theirs are at a quality level well below import standards (less kia/hyundai/daewoo for the time being -- and not to mention they're spending twice as much on gas) they have every right to be 'jealous' of us 'import' guys.

A domestic V8 may indeed be faster than most imports, but you can rest assured that I will never own one-- or at least until the cars are made to last and the engines are tuned like BMW V8s.

[Jeff240sx]

You guys. &nbsp;We all need to stop argueing about $40k Corvette vs. $31k rx-7, and $25k or less cars. &nbsp;Just take that $40k, or $31k or $25k and dump it under the hood of your 240sx. &nbsp;Then see who's faster &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':devil:'>
-Jeff

[AutoDestruct]

Does anyone here even have 25K? &nbsp;I sure as hell don't. &nbsp;How about shit we can make thats fast as hell for 6K. &nbsp;Like the Rx-7/350. &nbsp;or our 240's. &nbsp; I think were flying off topic. &nbsp;Cheap is good, fast is good, performance is good. &nbsp;Reason I got my 240's for 1000 a piece. &nbsp;Same reason i want this RX hybrid. &nbsp;

This whole domestic import thing is just a function of where the car is being imported or shipped from. &nbsp;You know how much it would cost to get a built 350 in a legal F-body in Japan? &nbsp;Probably as much as it costs to get a tuned Supra here.

[AKADriver]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (adey @ Oct. 29 2002,12:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you want a light shell to put a big engine in to make a fast car, get a geo metro... or at least keep it in a domestic!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I don't agree with this at all. &nbsp;Why not use the best chassis available? &nbsp;If there's one thing the Japanese did well in the '80s and '90s, they built lots of lightweight RWD cars with excellent suspensions.

See, I'm not a drag racer. &nbsp;I don't care about ETs. &nbsp;If you only want to go fast in a straight line, sure, dump that 350 into an old Camaro or something and go run 12's. &nbsp;I ask for a more well-rounded sports car, though. &nbsp;I want to go 150+ down the back straight without having to putt-putt through the corners. &nbsp;For this purpose there are few better places to put a V8 than an RX-7. &nbsp;Like I detailed in my post above, a V8 RX-7 can be built to handle... in fact it's a waste of time to NOT build one to handle.

Building a V8 that really performs is not just redneck engineering, either. &nbsp;It's less expensive but that doesn't make it any less impressive.

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (adey @ Oct. 29 2002,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LanceS13 @ Oct. 29 2002,1:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...or make a 5.7L push out 600+hp (well, not stock...but a V8 can be "fine-tuned" too)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Aww come on, a non-stock 1.3l rotary can be fine-tuned to push 600+whp too, and your V8's got more than 4x the displacement. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> My point was stock for stock, it's the american mind-set that "bigger always= better" that gets a little annoying. I just get the feeling that they've got something to prove!

I suppose that since they got their cars for the same price but theirs are at a quality level well below import standards (less kia/hyundai/daewoo for the time being -- and not to mention they're spending twice as much on gas) they have every right to be 'jealous' of us 'import' guys.

A domestic V8 may indeed be faster than most imports, but you can rest assured that I will never own one-- or at least until the cars are made to last and the engines are tuned like BMW V8s.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
oh, please. jealous? Not even close. They are constantly laughing at us for trying to make our wonnabe sports cars fast and assume we are the best now. Have you ever seen a sports magazine? Take summit. 80 pages of heads/blocks/pistons/rods for domestic cars. 10 pages of wings/lights/mirrors for sport compacts. Jealous.... right....

And cmon, you gonna be comparing a highly tuned turbo rotary engine to an n/a engine? Lofl, hell yeah it'd be much more efficient. But if you keep the rotary n/a it'll never hit 600whp. Or if you wonna turbocharge that v8 than the rotary would be out of competition. Have you seen the pick of the mustang putting 1500hp to the wheels with t-100 (may be wrong)? Lemme see an rx7 do that. At least compare engines in the same category. I'll give u an example: my friends 3000 dolar 355 is more efficient than my ka. And more efficient than n/a sr. And as efficient as supra's n/a engine.

Oh and the very popular thought of domestic cars being pieces of crap isn't completely right. The little plastic interior bs will start falling apart for sure. But the engine/tranny is quite strong.

[Baka Sama]

Well.... Let me just say that yeh domestics are and will be faster than imports per dollar. Not because domestics are almighty but because imports are just that....imports. Its always gonna cost more to import something of equal speed and performance than to just make it here. And that goes for parts too.

Now I wonder if you take the same amount of money you would spend on a stang' gt, convert it into yen and see what you can buy with it in Japan... &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

[Baka Sama]

As far as the V8 RX-7 goes. I'll try to post some pics when my bro. sends them to me. Right now he's in the middle of swaping the conv. top and replacing the hood to the turbo version hood with the scoupe in it. (The one on it now has a circle hole cut in it where the air filter sticks out. hehehe talk about American muscle ) &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[AutoDestruct]

Thanks. I really really want to see this thing. The best part about it is that its a convertible, and a V-8 Rx-7. If you know where to get the mounts or where to get info on where to weld mounts this could be a pretty viable option for me. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

I mean thats like a very cheap frame right now. A hardtop at least.
And the engine is in almost everything V-8 and chevy.