Miata?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!

[scottleone]

I was curious if anyone has heard of, has any links to, or knows anyone with a KA-T powered Miata? I'm interested in building one and I am looking for any information I can find on it.

[flclsteve]

never seen one sure it could be done go for it but why such a heavy engine in a small light car like that

[Kn1ves]

and the fact that its stock engine is willing to be boosted already

[sr20boostn20]

i have seen an sr20 powered miata at raceway park nj. (drag)

stock block, i think gt3071r running 11.7 s all day on a bfg.

[LB.Motoring]

Im building a KA (ka-t) Corolla,

I wouldnt see why not build a KA Miata,

[scottleone]

well I know that it would throw off the balance of the car but the weight isn't a huge issue because of the added power and torque. my big thing is that a miata has no torque, and even SR powered miata's are still lacking in that area, and what would be more badass than a track miata that could come out of a sharp corner already in it's usable powerband?

[kdashy]

well I know that it would throw off the balance of the car but the weight isn't a huge issue because of the added power and torque. my big thing is that a miata has no torque, and even SR powered miata's are still lacking in that area, and what would be more badass than a track miata that could come out of a sharp corner already in it's usable powerband?

The issue with a heavy engine is balance.

[burnsauto]

i did a little poking around for five minutes on miata forums...realized i hate all other forums...

"There's a reason why all the 240SX guys are dumping the truck engines and putting in the SR20DE and DET engines...

If you're going to the bother of a swap, pick a good engine to swap in, not a mediocre engine! If the good engines are too expensive, just go with a BP again."

[boost_it7]

what would be more badass than a track miata that could come out of a sharp corner already in it's usable powerband?

How about a Miata that isn't an understeering pig? That much more weight up front would be sucksville.
A Miata isn't the kind of car that needs a lot of torque to be fast, but if you want power just do a junkyard turbo setup and a good tune. My friend's T25-boosted Miata made 230 rwhp at 12psi after a tune by Flyin' Miata.

[S13Leprechaun]

^^ and thats pretty fuckin fast for a miata... one of my team members has a boosted miata, with a tdo4, its PLENTY O POWER for that puny car. seriously, just turbo the stock motor.

[txrxs]

well I know that it would throw off the balance of the car but the weight isn't a huge issue because of the added power and torque. my big thing is that a miata has no torque, and even SR powered miata's are still lacking in that area, and what would be more badass than a track miata that could come out of a sharp corner already in it's usable powerband?

Or you could drive to suit your motor.

Are you speaking from experience of driving an SR20 Miata and a Boosted BP Miata? With stock motors capable of 300hp and similar tq, I really have a hard time finding the logic in this swap. If you like torque why not and LS1, 2JZ or RB25? I'm thinking your budget on this project is gonna be high anyway, why not shoot for the stars...

[RHDRPS13]

Or you could drive to suit your motor.

Are you speaking from experience of driving an SR20 Miata and a Boosted BP Miata? With stock motors capable of 300hp and similar tq, I really have a hard time finding the logic in this swap. If you like torque why not and LS1, 2JZ or RB25? I'm thinking your budget on this project is gonna be high anyway, why not shoot for the stars...
2JZ in a miata, your forgeting a little thing called traction and the overall power to weight ratio is going to be completely thrown off. Turbo the stock BP or get an SR or shit a 13B-RE:hsdance:

[LS240]

Why a KA? Just do an LS1 swap. The LS1 is actually considerably lighter than the KA24, and it's torquier than the KA could ever dream of being. Win-win situation.

[BustedS13]

i did a little poking around for five minutes on miata forums...realized i hate all other forums...

"There's a reason why all the 240SX guys are dumping the truck engines and putting in the SR20DE and DET engines...

If you're going to the bother of a swap, pick a good engine to swap in, not a mediocre engine! If the good engines are too expensive, just go with a BP again."

one of the most infuriating things about other car forums is when you stumble upon a bunch of people talking about your preferred model, and they just talk out of their ass, citing Super Street and other bullshit magazines. truck motor this, dorifto that, blah blah blah. it's best to just avoid those threads

[scottleone]

Why a KA? Just do an LS1 swap. The LS1 is actually considerably lighter than the KA24, and it's torquier than the KA could ever dream of being. Win-win situation.


everyone keeps talking about the weight difference but after a few hours on google last night i still can not come up with a weight for the KA or the BP and I after this post I'd like to see the weight of an LS1 as well. anyone at all have any REAL figures other than just saying it's heavier?

[irax]

KL miata

DONE!

http://www.miata.net/motm/2007/images/snell5.jpg


THOUGH a ka-T miata would still be pretty bad assicle

[soreballz]

what would be more badass than a track miata that could come out of a sharp corner already in it's usable powerband?
Something tells me that you've never driven a Miata on a racetrack. Or a mountain.
Well, if you have, you must not have been driving it properly...

KA Miata is a silly idea. Miatas have AWESOME balance, and a KA would fuck that up pretty damn bad.

[scottleone]

Something tells me that you've never driven a Miata on a racetrack. Or a mountain.
Well, if you have, you must not have been driving it properly...

KA Miata is a silly idea. Miatas have AWESOME balance, and a KA would fuck that up pretty damn bad.

again i want to see actual weight #'s before buying into it just being a heavier engine that's going to destroy balance

[scottleone]

oh and i have driven a miata through plenty a mountain road, not on a track though, and the one thing i always lamented about was it's lack of power on corner exits.

[98s14inaz]

The issue with a heavy engine is balance.

I agree, the ka is too heavy for that car and would ruin the balance.

[SHIFT_*grind*]

oh and i have driven a miata through plenty a mountain road, not on a track though, and the one thing i always lamented about was it's lack of power on corner exits.

Did you drive a 230HP Miata with a T25 kit? Because that's about 2x the power of a stock Miata, with nothing but a simple turbo kit on the stock motor. And the BP motor is quite capable of making more than that.

I have a hard time believing that your power goals necessitate an engine swap.

[scottleone]

I agree, the ka is too heavy for that car and would ruin the balance.

are we discussing a 50/50 weight balance or what is now widely considered a perfect balance of 60/40, because as i understood it the miata is set up as nuetrally balanced car, and this would push closer to that 60/40 range. again i want to see cold hard #'s before simply dismissing it as a heavier engine with absolutely no merit.

[scottleone]

Did you drive a 230HP Miata with a T25 kit? Because that's about 2x the power of a stock Miata, with nothing but a simple turbo kit on the stock motor. And the BP motor is quite capable of making more than that.

I have a hard time believing that your power goals necessitate an engine swap.

it's not high HP i'm looking for, it's more useable low end torque, at a broader range.

[SHIFT_*grind*]

Flyin' Miata dynograph, 12 psi, 1.8L engine (http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_runs/1996_FM_II_Link_new.pdf)

Some kid on NICO. (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/s14boy/DYNO.jpg)
GReddy kit with FMIC

Yeah, the KA-T setup will probably make more torque than the BP-T setup, depending on the specifics. But that first dyno graph is decently broad; you could hardly call it peaky, or narrow. Just sayin', it's something you should consider before you undertake such a big project that (almost) no one's done before, and mess up the near perfect weight distribution in the process.

[ALEXTHESUS*PECT]

you want a fast miata go here:
http://www.flyinmiata.com/turbos/index.php

that shit beats a ka anyday!
http://www.flyinmiata.com/turbos/images/IMG_4002_300.jpg

[diomedes]

There's a guy in the bay with a SR in his Miata. It's bad ass.

[scottleone]

Flyin' Miata dynograph, 12 psi, 1.8L engine (http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_runs/1996_FM_II_Link_new.pdf)

Some kid on NICO. (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/s14boy/DYNO.jpg)
GReddy kit with FMIC

Yeah, the KA-T setup will probably make more torque than the BP-T setup, depending on the specifics. But that first dyno graph is decently broad; you could hardly call it peaky, or narrow. Just sayin', it's something you should consider before you undertake such a big project that (almost) no one's done before, and mess up the near perfect weight distribution in the process.


again though what do you consider a perfect weight distrobution 50/50 or 60/40 which has become what most purists consider perfect. so much so that even porsche is moving towards a 60/40 distrobution even though traditional 911's are almost all 50/50. the main problem i see with this project is wiring.

[txrxs]

Apparently you're not here for opinions. It doesn't matter, you've already made your mind up. Whats the point of this thread?

You can quote magazines and what you've read till your blue in the face, but until you can speak firsthand from experience about any of these things it's all speculation.

[SHIFT_*grind*]

The only weight distribution I've ever heard called "perfect" is 50/50, but whatever floats your boat. If you decide you want a 60/40, you could do a Flyin Miata kit, strip everything you can out of the trunk area, strap a 100lb lead weight to your radiator support and still have less than half of the pain in the ass you will trying to engineer a KA-T into your engine bay.

But, since you don't want opinions, I'll answer the original question as best I can: No.

[scottleone]

no not opinions at all actually, i want facts like engine weight, and those seem to be mean less to you than what you or anyone else thinks. if i wanted opinions my title would have had said "KA MIATA, WHAT'S YOUR OPINION?"

[scottleone]

The only weight distribution I've ever heard called "perfect" is 50/50, but whatever floats your boat. If you decide you want a 60/40, you could do a Flyin Miata kit, strip everything you can out of the trunk area, strap a 100lb lead weight to your radiator support and still have less than half of the pain in the ass you will trying to engineer a KA-T into your engine bay.

But, since you don't want opinions, I'll answer the original question as best I can: No.

thank you very much for you honesty and being able to answer my original question.

[SHIFT_*grind*]

To give you an idea of the futility you're probably looking at here:

Google search on "KA24DET Miata". (http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&hl=en&num=50&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=KA24DET+miata&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&cr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images) Zero results.

Google search on "KA-T Miata". (http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&hl=en&num=50&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=KA-T+miata&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&cr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images) One (http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3869138&postcount=7699) result. If you can track down this one guy in Tampa who made that one post a year ago, verify that he's not talking out of his ass, and pick his brain, you might have something to start from.



By comparison...
Google search on "SR20DET Miata". (http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&hl=en&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=SR20DET+miata&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&cr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images) 684 results.

Google search on "flyin miata". (http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&hl=en&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=Flyin+miata&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&cr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images) ~18,400 results.


Good luck.

[soreballz]

oh and i have driven a miata through plenty a mountain road, not on a track though, and the one thing i always lamented about was it's lack of power on corner exits.
Fine, in that case, so SC on the stock motor.

From MY personal experience driving Miatas, when driven properly, you don't need alot of power on corner exits. If you're trying to go slow in and fast out, then yeah, you might need that power. But if you're going fast in and fast out through the correct line, its really not an issue.

I think if you've got tons of time on your hands, and you love to fabricate shit, go for the KA-T Miata idea. It'd make for a fun drag car, but not so much a fun autoX/road race/canyon.mountain car.

By the way, just out of curiosity... This Miata you've driven in the mountains, was it a 1.6 or 1.8 motor?

[scottleone]

1.6 i believe, if i remember correctly, it was 93 i know that much, but it's been several years now so i don't remember it all.

[burnsauto]

Fine, in that case, so SC on the stock motor.

From MY personal experience driving Miatas, when driven properly, you don't need alot of power on corner exits. If you're trying to go slow in and fast out, then yeah, you might need that power. But if you're going fast in and fast out through the correct line, its really not an issue.

I think if you've got tons of time on your hands, and you love to fabricate shit, go for the KA-T Miata idea. It'd make for a fun drag car, but not so much a fun autoX/road race/canyon.mountain car.

By the way, just out of curiosity... This Miata you've driven in the mountains, was it a 1.6 or 1.8 motor?

well thats the thing...its going to be a project (scott called me up about the idea) to see if i can be done..and once its done, the result. The fab work wouldnt be an issue, once the materials are there..that wont be a problem. I've even thought about notching the firewall back a few inches and pushing the engine further back to help out with the weight distribution. Granted Im not sure what will happen with driveshaft length..lol. And if the car sucks...so be it, we'll just take the ka out and shove it in an s chassis. I dont think the world will miss another miata.:ghey:

Dont be so hard on scott guys, he's just throwing around ideas...thinking outside the box, nothing wrong in that. if the cars a little nose heavy..it wont be the first one on the road like that. Pop open the hood of any audi made in the last 7-8 years...notice how most of the engine is sitting in front of the front axle? ..granted they have other things to help balance the car out, but they are still a bit nose heavy. Anyways, this idea is just about pushing things, seeing what can be done.. Hell, thats how monster trucks came about and (IMO) they're badass. :fruit:

[ripnbst]

Can you seriously not find engine wieghts online witha google search? I looked a wehile back to check LS weights agains t KA and SR and I found everything I needed in under 5 minutes.

[raen419]

again i want to see actual weight #'s before buying into it just being a heavier engine that's going to destroy balance
The KA weighs around 330lbs in stock form. Not sure if that includes manifolds or not.
My current daily driver is a 1.6L Miata. When I had the engine out to replace the transmission, head, and just doing some cleaning, we took it to a friend's place to weigh the engine just for fun...and out of curiousity. Now, I don't have an actual weight for it (i.e. pic proof) but the engine as just a long block was 289lbs iirc.
And numerous people in the Miata community have weighed their engines and the basic weights were: 1.6L (B6)= 290lbs, 1.8L (BP)= 310lbs.

Btw, to whoever said the LS1 weighs less than a KA is wrong. Seen plenty of them weighed before, with and w/o manifolds...and yeah...roughly 450lbs was w/ manifolds...no starter...pallet weight not included.

[burnsauto]

The KA weighs around 330lbs in stock form. Not sure if that includes manifolds or not.
My current daily driver is a 1.6L Miata. When I had the engine out to replace the transmission, head, and just doing some cleaning, we took it to a friend's place to weigh the engine just for fun...and out of curiousity. Now, I don't have an actual weight for it (i.e. pic proof) but the engine as just a long block was 289lbs iirc.
And numerous people in the Miata community have weighed their engines and the basic weights were: 1.6L (B6)= 290lbs, 1.8L (BP)= 310lbs.

Btw, to whoever said the LS1 weighs less than a KA is wrong. Seen plenty of them weighed before, with and w/o manifolds...and yeah...roughly 450lbs was w/ manifolds...no starter...pallet weight not included.

and honestly...even if the BP sits at a slender 290 lbs, thats not that big a difference that cant be made up if you switched to the ka. (and 330 has to be with the manifolds on. the block weighs 91 lbs bare - around 150-170 loaded., a loaded head around 50 lbs) hell... relocating the battery to the trunk gets rid of 20 lbs hanging off the front. Plus, this chassis will have a full cage, adding even MORE weight to the rear of it. so weight wont be that hard to balance out once everything is finalized.

[boost_it7]

okay, whoever repped me and said that extra weight doesn't reduce grip is retarded. go study some physics.

[sac]

2JZ in a miata, your forgeting a little thing called traction and the overall power to weight ratio is going to be completely thrown off. Turbo the stock BP or get an SR or shit a 13B-RE:hsdance:

i know for a fact the 13b-re has been done. specifically because me and a friend of mine had a pos 91 miata layin around w/no motor. and a partial bridgeported 13b chillin. we also put a gt35r t3 on it.. let me tell you. this car pulled out of a corner hard as fuck. we eventually got it to dyno somewhere around 410whp. torque was low being it was the rotary. but it pulled on some serious cars.. never ran it in a 1/4 but it pulled like a low 12-high 11. it did have traction problems like a bitch. 1&2 gear were totally pointless. we kept up with a cbr600f4i all day.

props for doing something kinda origional though. ka-t in a miata should be nice...

[ManoNegra]

Not a ka-t but this thread reminded me of this post in FA from 2004:

http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=105846&highlight=sr+miata

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/cjuckett/miata/srm10.JPG

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/cjuckett/miata/srm18.jpg

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/cjuckett/miata/srm22.jpg

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/cjuckett/miata/OILPAN4.JPG

[scottleone]

and honestly...even if the BP sits at a slender 290 lbs, thats not that big a difference that cant be made up if you switched to the ka. (and 330 has to be with the manifolds on. the block weighs 91 lbs bare - around 150-170 loaded., a loaded head around 50 lbs) hell... relocating the battery to the trunk gets rid of 20 lbs hanging off the front. Plus, this chassis will have a full cage, adding even MORE weight to the rear of it. so weight wont be that hard to balance out once everything is finalized.

and again now that jared and i just had another conversation about this car, with porsche engineers and men like Geoff Raicer promoting the abilities of a front biased car, (because even though it pushes/understeers at the begining of the corner once you apex and start coming out of the corner you can slam the throttle and get the ass to rotate to correct your line) i think it would be a safe bet that a KA-T will only serve to better the balance i'm looking to achieve.:bigok:

[DreamN]

^ weight of ka24de:

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/299879